Testing the Gorilla

[Recidiva]

Oh, okay. My apologies! I misunderstood your post.

Happens to me a lot, I'm sure it's entirely my fault.

I speak this internal language of metaphor and "but of course you get this" and it takes me going out for a walk to realize...other people speak English.

 

[JMohegan]

Happens to me a lot, I'm sure it's entirely my fault.

I speak this internal language of metaphor and "but of course you get this" and it takes me going out for a walk to realize...other people speak English.

I am an absurdly literal thinker. Really, severely metaphor challenged. It's a miracle you & I communicate at all!

 

[Recidiva]

I am an absurdly literal thinker. Really, severely metaphor challenged. It's a miracle you & I communicate at all!

Just tell me when to ramp it back and I'll try. My being on the board is my attempt to learn other languages, though it looks like I'm only speaking mine.

Your language is cool, I suck at the accent still.

 

[Homburg]

I have that jealous reaction like any guy, but I don't like it. It feels like a weak spot, through which it might be possible to control me.

I don't like it either. I don't consider it an avenue of control though, as I'm likely to just say "Fuck it" and wash my hands of the issue, and persons, entirely. It is a control issue, and I dislike that. I don't like that I can be fired up that easily.

Though, misanthropically and atavistically speaking, I do enjoy the emotional rush. I work fuck-all hard not to be scary, to rein it in. Sometimes it is immensely satisfying to just let the leash out a bit and watch the reactions.

--

Well I think that it was neither of those two reasons.

Was their emotion attached on his behalf? Was he enjoying it? Or was it more a perfunctory exercise in showing you the use of the equipment? No emotion on his behalf would pretty much account for no emotion on your side of the fence as well.

The Gorilla isn't really about protecting "thee an' thine", its more about self protection.

Oh, he was enjoying it. Slave or not, there's a bit of sadist in him. He was having a good time. What was not present was even a hint of competition. His attitude towards me had the same undercurrent of respect and positional awareness that he displays towards anyone that he acknowledges as a dominant. The guy is one of the best people in our munch group, and a rasty old badass that could almost certainly whup my butt if he needed to, but his place is at his Mistress' feet. While he is in no way servile towards other dominants, well, he's like a well-trained dog. He recognises those who are dominant, and they're just a little higher on the food chain.

I also think it is a trust issue. The guy is just incredibly worthy. I trust him.

And it is not just that he's is on the submissive side of the fenced. There is a male submissive in the group that seriously has the hots for viv, and has ever since he met her. He positively leers, and commonly has his eyes right at chest level. He damned near pants and salivates, and more than once I've wanted to just slap him. It's disrespectful though, and that may be why. Either way, he would not be one that would be allowed to touch my property like the first one did.

--

Being protective is not jealousy in exactly the same way jealousy isn't about being protective. The way Homburg described his gorilla was, "the nasty, aggressive reaction." Jealousy is ALWAYS selfish, where protectiveness is _mostly_ selfless.

Homburg is making positive steps to overcome 'his gorilla,' no doubt a commendable action. Rosco has recognised the inherent weakness that is 'his gorilla.' ....and just the other day I was lamenting that men will never grow up, yet here are two fine examples that prove me wrong.

Jealousy is a weird thing for me. I'm not sure that I would describe it as jealousy. It's tough to explain why. I can be jealous, but it does not produce that response. Jealousy has an evil taste to it. The gorilla? Just pure primal reaction. As Recidiva said, bitey unreasoning animal.

--

Insecurity or fear of being replaced by a rival is one issue.

Personal possessiveness (I don't share my toothbrush, my boxer briefs, or my partner) is another.

The "MINE!" response is a third. I don't see it as a matter of worrying about the female's choice, so much as a competitive issue between guys. The urge behind the type of primal competition in which the winner gets the female, regardless of what she desires.

It is entirely possible to have complete trust and faith in a partner's devotion, her lack of interest in other guys regardless of private contact, etc. - and still feel a strong personal possessiveness and sense of "MINE."

2 +3 describes me in a strong relationship.

Yep, I don't share my toothbrush. That is a damned good way of describing it. The flip side is also true. I very, very rarely have sexual interest in the women my friends are partnered with. It is sort of an honour-between-friends things, but it is also reminiscent of a line one of my friends used once.

Years ago, a buddy of mine was dating this girl. Wow, she was no prize, but he was a huge loser, so it was not a surprising pairing. A mutual friend took this as an affront, as he found it personally insulting that he was single and our huge loser friend was getting some. So he pretty much swooped in and took this girl off of my looser friend's hands. Not cool, yeah, but, karma had its' own revenge, and they're friends now.

That said, at the time there was some serious rancor between them early on. The best line, and the line that I'm thinking of, was when he looked at the guy what'd stolen his girl and said, "So, I saw you kissing her outside. How does my dick taste?" The look on the other guy's face was well and truly priceless. Said guy later admitted that he'd had trouble kissing the girl for a while after that. Points to my loser friend.

This is the core of it. I just don't want to plow fields that have been plowed by my friends. So their mates are perfectly safe from me.

(As to karma, well, said chick was a bit loopy then, and has gotten nothing but loopier, and the guy that took her off loser-boy is still with her. And, wow, is he miserable. Karma is good stuff.)

 

[rosco rathbone]

I don't like it either. I don't consider it an avenue of control though, as I'm likely to just say "Fuck it" and wash my hands of the issue, and persons, entirely. It is a control issue, and I dislike that. I don't like that I can be fired up that easily.

I know what you mean about cutting people loose in order to deal with jealousy. Thing is, you run into a problem when you are dealing with someone who doesn't care about being cut loose. I think it's better to be able to deal with the emotion without being forced to take any particular action.

 

[Homburg]

I know what you mean about cutting people loose in order to deal with jealousy. Thing is, you run into a problem when you are dealing with someone who doesn't care about being cut loose. I think it's better to be able to deal with the emotion without being forced to take any particular action.

That is more of a compatibility thing. I'm not going to be interested in someone that doesn't fear being cut loose. It's not my style. And if they start out fearing it, but get to the point where it is no big deal, we are probably ready to part ways anyway.

 

[ownedsubgal]

on the subject of possessiveness, i just wanted to add that it is possible for one to be extremely possessive but still want to loan out/share their partner. my Master is one of these...he very much has an attitude of "mine mine MINE!" toward me that he will display to any and everyone who so much as glances at me. He gets off so much on sharing me primarily because it's a reflection of him...it's male ego and boasting all the way, a look at what i have (and you don't), look at how i've trained her (and you never could) kind of thing. it pleases him to let others see and experience a taste of what he has, knowing that only he will ever possess it.

so possessiveness does not necessarily = no sharing.

as for jealousy, that only rears its head if i appear to have any real "desire" for another man (typically sexually, sometimes emotionally), which has been very rare.

 

[rosco rathbone]

on the subject of possessiveness, i just wanted to add that it is possible for one to be extremely possessive but still want to loan out/share their partner. my Master is one of these...he very much has an attitude of "mine mine MINE!" toward me that he will display to any and everyone who so much as glances at me. He gets off so much on sharing me primarily because it's a reflection of him...it's male ego and boasting all the way, a look at what i have (and you don't), look at how i've trained her (and you never could) kind of thing. it pleases him to let others see and experience a taste of what he has, knowing that only he will ever possess it.

so possessiveness does not necessarily = no sharing.

as for jealousy, that only rears its head if i appear to have any real "desire" for another man (typically sexually, sometimes emotionally), which has been very rare.

Bingo.

 

[Recidiva]

on the subject of possessiveness, i just wanted to add that it is possible for one to be extremely possessive but still want to loan out/share their partner. my Master is one of these...he very much has an attitude of "mine mine MINE!" toward me that he will display to any and everyone who so much as glances at me. He gets off so much on sharing me primarily because it's a reflection of him...it's male ego and boasting all the way, a look at what i have (and you don't), look at how i've trained her (and you never could) kind of thing. it pleases him to let others see and experience a taste of what he has, knowing that only he will ever possess it.

so possessiveness does not necessarily = no sharing.

as for jealousy, that only rears its head if i appear to have any real "desire" for another man (typically sexually, sometimes emotionally), which has been very rare.

I can admit I am attracted to other men as much as I want. Long as I don't do nothin' about it.

I believe I can't control my emotions, but I can control how I respond to them, and how I act. So I'd freely admit wanting to jump someone else. But I'll promise not to do it and stick with that promise.

I love, love, love online roleplaying and cyber. I feel I could handle it and not get attached. He disagrees. Not fear of losing me, but just being possessive and he doesn't want someone feeling proprietary about me. He doesn't like the idea of it at all. And I've asked, repeatedly, but that's an immovable limit and I've chosen to grumble and respect it. So it's my way of honoring what he is most comfortable with.

I know I'm out there on trust issues, but I really do my best to honor someone else's if I'm with them.

It is really cool to see how everyone processes it though.

 

[ecstaticsub]

on the subject of possessiveness, i just wanted to add that it is possible for one to be extremely possessive but still want to loan out/share their partner. my Master is one of these...he very much has an attitude of "mine mine MINE!" toward me that he will display to any and everyone who so much as glances at me. He gets off so much on sharing me primarily because it's a reflection of him...it's male ego and boasting all the way, a look at what i have (and you don't), look at how i've trained her (and you never could) kind of thing. it pleases him to let others see and experience a taste of what he has, knowing that only he will ever possess it.

so possessiveness does not necessarily = no sharing.

as for jealousy, that only rears its head if i appear to have any real "desire" for another man (typically sexually, sometimes emotionally), which has been very rare.

This is exactly how my Daddy is. He shares me with his friends. But only when he is there to control the situation. He loves to show me off. He is also extremely possessive.

Sharing me sexually under his control he enjoys, he has even toyed with the idea of me having vanilla sex with others that he approves of. However, I am never allowed to bottom or submit to anyone else even for a demo type of situation. That part of me is for him only.

My husband on the other hand used to love sharing me with anyone who I felt like having sex with as long as I was always honest with him. He says that he knows I love him and will never leave him and he enjoys that I love sex so much.

As far as myself--I don't ever want to share hubby with anyone. I have no control over my PYL so he can do whatever he wants. However, we have had one occasion with us playing with another couple and I was surprisingly (to me) not jealous at all watching him enjoy this much younger woman. It was just vanilla fun though. I do know I would have felt differently if he had Topped her. The same is true if he wanted another submissive. I would probably eventually be ok with it, but it would be very difficult.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

I finally admitted to Master when I came back from my weekend with him that I could not emotionally handle sharing him with someone else. I am possessive and jealous when it comes to Master though if you would have asked me this a month ago I would have said "uh uh. not me."

Yes, I know I would have to deal with it if he decided he wanted another slave, and I will do what I must to make sure he is happy including welcoming another into the relationship if I had to, but like with ecstaticsub, I would have some difficulty. Lucky for me though he doesn't want another slave.

As for sharing me, that is a definite no no. Master is very 'what's mine is mine' and has repeatedly told me that I will never be with another man. I of course have no problem with this because I don't want any one else but Master

This is exactly how my Daddy is. He shares me with his friends. But only when he is there to control the situation. He loves to show me off. He is also extremely possessive.

Sharing me sexually under his control he enjoys, he has even toyed with the idea of me having vanilla sex with others that he approves of. However, I am never allowed to bottom or submit to anyone else even for a demo type of situation. That part of me is for him only.

My husband on the other hand used to love sharing me with anyone who I felt like having sex with as long as I was always honest with him. He says that he knows I love him and will never leave him and he enjoys that I love sex so much.

As far as myself--I don't ever want to share hubby with anyone. I have no control over my PYL so he can do whatever he wants. However, we have had one occasion with us playing with another couple and I was surprisingly (to me) not jealous at all watching him enjoy this much younger woman. It was just vanilla fun though. I do know I would have felt differently if he had Topped her. The same is true if he wanted another submissive. I would probably eventually be ok with it, but it would be very difficult.

 

[Etoile]

*grins*

Good for you, Homburg. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Homburg]

It went just fine. I will be trying to attend any further presentations he gives in the future. He is a definite geek, and I really dig that sort of mindset. Not just looking into the how's, or even just the how's and why's, but the how's, why's, and permutations. Good stuff. And of course I dig the safety first mindset too.

As to the rest of it, no real problems. This may be attributable to the fact that he's a pro, and knows how to handle such things. I'm certainly nowhere near the first dominant that has handed him my property, and he knows well how to deal with the gorilla ego.

There was a moment or two that elicited a bit of a raised eyebrow, but the attendant humour defused it nicely.

I'm still not going to share my property, but it was okay to allow her to be used in this particular setting, for this particular purpose.


ETA: And I did get the Dungeon Emergencies book. Great suggestion, thanks!

 

[Netzach]

on the subject of possessiveness, i just wanted to add that it is possible for one to be extremely possessive but still want to loan out/share their partner. my Master is one of these...he very much has an attitude of "mine mine MINE!" toward me that he will display to any and everyone who so much as glances at me. He gets off so much on sharing me primarily because it's a reflection of him...it's male ego and boasting all the way, a look at what i have (and you don't), look at how i've trained her (and you never could) kind of thing. it pleases him to let others see and experience a taste of what he has, knowing that only he will ever possess it.

so possessiveness does not necessarily = no sharing.

as for jealousy, that only rears its head if i appear to have any real "desire" for another man (typically sexually, sometimes emotionally), which has been very rare.

Exactly this. It's like "go ahead, enjoy, admire, and watch as he comes back to me like a little boomerang."