Symbolism

[MillieDynamite]

My adoptive father had an uncle, whom he never met, who was awarded the flying cross for landing a damaged plane with a pair of wounded pilots, and only one landing gear down. He didn't even break the wing when he stopped the plane. But, as fate would have it, he and the entire crew, replacement pilot and copilot included, were killed a few missions later. The medal (and the accompanying meritorious conduct medal) were awarded posthumously. This is one instance where the win did nothing for the winner.

 

[MillieDynamite]

If you have the trifecta of extra letter/color markings on your stories you don't really need to justify them. It's enough that, as something extra in both highlighting and color, they attract readers--and they do. You are left if you don't have the trifecta (or have just one) of the extra letter-color markings to attack them as meaningless and to come up with all sorts of reason why that is so--if this really bothers you, to foam at the mouth while you're doing so. And if it really, REALLY bothers you, you can trot around to see who does have them so you can specifically disparage that to make yourself feel better.

I wouldn't do any of that. It sounds more than childish, to me, for someone, anyone, to behave that way.

 

[KeithD]

Yes, well, I can feel the seething and gnashing of teeth floating down from the northeast.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I wouldn't do any of that. It sounds more than childish, to me, for someone, anyone, to behave that way.

No no, you are clearly envious, stop fighting it!

 

[KeithD]

No no, you are clearly envious, stop fighting it!

You're choosing to be butt hurt yourself about this, I think. You made an assumption about envy when so much more is involved. You don't have to take it as a personal affront and worry the issue on the board. It's a simple fact that those who don't have one or more of these distinctions tend to find reasons to think they have no validity at Literotica (there are a couple of examples of that right here on this thread), and I've seen those who gained them turn right around on the issue. I can't really see any credence in the position that they aren't advantageous to have when readers are perusing lists for reads--or in the assertion that the owner of the site and sole admissions editor isn't a more equal and desirable approving reader than others here.

 

[Rustyoznail]

I cracked a W for third place. The score's gone down from then... There was a small lift in views after the announcement, but now it's much the same as my others in that category.

I like the red H. It catches the eye, and if a writer has a large number on their story lists, then I feel that someone browsing for something else to read is more likely to take a chance on a random story on that list.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You're choosing to be butt hurt yourself about this, I think. You made an assumption about envy when so much more is involved. You don't have to take it as a personal affront and worry the issue on the board. It's a simple fact that those who don't have one or more of these distinctions tend to find reasons to think they have no validity at Literotica (there are a couple of examples of that right here on this thread), and I've seen those who gained them turn right around on the issue. I can't really see any credence in the position that they aren't advantageous to have when readers are perusing lists for reads--or in the assertion that the owner of the site and sole admissions editor isn't a more equal and desirable approving reader than others here.

I am not choosing anything, really, yet your implications were quite clear. You are now even talking about 'facts' in other people's behavior to justify the validity of your position. I am apparently someone who covets those shiny letters, and if I eventually get them, I will glorify them instead. Like that fox from a fable who coveted the grapes that were too high up. Maybe go back and reread what I wrote instead. I never said they were not useful to have. They probably attract some readers too. The only thing I said is how they affected me when I was just a reader, and how they affect me now when I know how they are awarded and when I know the mechanics of the website much better. I was speaking about myself the whole time. So as you see, the only butt hurt person there was you. I was merely annoyed by the fact that you decided to go for a personal attack rather than talk about the validity of those letters. I wouldn't have disputed any claim about their usefulness in the eyes of readers.

 

[Voboy]

The Blue W, in my experience, SIGNIFICANTLY increases views and comments in the short and medium term. In the immediate term, it often attracts downvotes if it's a contest win, though not if it's a monthly win.

This might not be a "Blue W Effect;" it might stem from the announcement of the Blue W being prominently displayed on the front page of the site, with a link to the story.

 

[KeithD]

I was merely annoyed by the fact that you decided to go for a personal attack rather than talk about the validity of those letters. I wouldn't have disputed any claim about their usefulness in the eyes of readers.

I did not go on personal attack. I was focused on the positions asserted. You have chosen to take it as a personal attack and then to respond in your chosen mode. This is going to have to be your personal hurt.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I didn't think anyone was attacking anyone. I have no idea if you get a boost from having W's or E's. I'd love to be able to find out but not holding my breath. So, now this is where I shut up and let the others fight.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No no, you are clearly envious, stop fighting it!

If this is a joke, I don't get it. If you are serious, you're seriously wrong and clearly don't know me.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I did not go on personal attack. I was focused on the positions asserted. You have chosen to take it as a personal attack and then to respond in your chosen mode. This is going to have to be your personal hurt.

Right. You haven't made a single argument about validity and worth of the letters or their usefulness in that post, so claiming that you focused on positions asserted is just BS. All you said was those who don't have the letters are attacking them, clearly implying enviousness, and those who do have them are happy about it. That is ALL you wrote. I answered quite calmly and explained my position in more detail, yet you chose to reassert your first claim like five more times, rather than write any actual argument. It is only after I wrote that ironic post that you presented yourself in this manner, as if perplexed why am I acting so butt hurt, when you were just calmly and politely discussing arguments, even though that post was the first where you presented some actual arguments about usefulness of the letters, arguments I wouldn't contradict as they are quite reasonable. I have seen you do this in arguments with other people as well, so it hardly surprises me.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If this is a joke, I don't get it. If you are serious, you're seriously wrong and clearly don't know me.

It was an ironic post aimed for Keith, as it looked like he was implying the same thing about you as he did for me, by reasserting his previous posts. Forgive me for implicating you in it, I was sure you would understand the joke.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I might be wrong, I often am, but I thought that Keith said, those who don't have the colored letters don't see them as important. I don't think, and again I could be wrong, he claimed anyone was envious.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I might be wrong, I often am, but I thought that Keith said, those who don't have the colored letters don't see them as important. I don't think, and again I could be wrong, he claimed anyone was envious.

I am quite sure that is exactly what he implied. You would probably have to go back and reread the whole conversation to get that impression, although it is probably not worth the bother. I am now also feeling silly for bothering with it, as these jabs are such a common thing here. Heat of the moment weakness from my side

 

[Voboy]

All you said was those who don't have the letters are attacking them, clearly implying enviousness, and those who do have them are happy about it.

I'm not sure I agree with Keith here, and I'm not sure I don't.

But it's worth reminding you that he's been here a LONG time, and has always been active in the AH, where he has (despite a tendency toward bluntness) been a shrewd observer of many trends here.

He is not alone in observing that people without H, E, or W icons often claim they are unimportant. Those of us who've spent more than a few months here have seen similar threads pop up, and that is indeed a fairly consistent sentiment.

The reasons for those claims? That's not for me to say. But he's not wrong to point it out. For the record, I am quite happy to get the H and very pleasantly surprised to get Ws. Even though I know the contests are often an epic shitshow, scoring-wise, I take comfort in knowing my W stories were genuinely good efforts on my part.

 

[gunhilltrain]

You're very right, many medals are a surprise, and the big rush is the feeling that someone noticed! Someone gave a damn! I do have a couple "campaign medals," none were fun even though most of my work was "in the rear with the gear." Those ribbons are not worth any points toward promotion and are a thanks from the host country. GH Chesterton put it most succinctly when he said:

So which branch of the service were you in? I seem to remember you mentioning that topic a while ago.

Chesterton may have been right - but the exceptions! Plenty of armies have been very aggressive when invading somebody else, other countries that were not a direct threat but were simply there for the taking. There are so many examples I can't list them all. Sometimes they win, sometimes they are defeated.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'm probably never getting the Big E. I try to be polite, but when Laurel... or Manu... or whoever puts stories up chopped the first line off of two of my stories, one of them a contest entry, I got upset.

That's kind of weird; I've never had them cut lines that I remember. I don't think they ever sent back one of my stories either.

There is another site that sent back, I think, three stories, but they explicitly told me what was wrong. They have several volunteer moderators who have different, well, preferences. A couple of changes were so minor that I did them. (Although the reasoning behind the rejections was almost comical.) Another one was practically possible to do without changing the whole premise, so I took it elsewhere.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'm not sure I agree with Keith here, and I'm not sure I don't.

But it's worth reminding you that he's been here a LONG time, and has always been active in the AH, where he has (despite a tendency toward bluntness) been a shrewd observer of many trends here.

He is not alone in observing that people without H, E, or W icons often claim they are unimportant. Those of us who've spent more than a few months here have seen similar threads pop up, and that is indeed a fairly consistent sentiment.

The reasons for those claims? That's not for me to say. But he's not wrong to point it out. For the record, I am quite happy to get the H and very pleasantly surprised to get Ws. Even though I know the contests are often an epic shitshow, scoring-wise, I take comfort in knowing my W stories were genuinely good efforts on my part.

You steered clear from his motivation so that is fair enough. But let me ask you this instead. Doesn't it stand to reason that the only people who attack high scores and red H are those who don't have them, or have so few of them?

On a different note, people here tend to rip one's head off when some frivolous assertions are made without providing some actual data or proof of some kind. When I made that thread about old stories vs new ones I clearly stated that I wasn't claiming anything, only that it was my impression that stories used to be better, and people called me on that instantly to present some actual data and numbers. Am I then to take this assertion of his as a fact even though you both presented 0 data, just your impressions? As in, I claimed I don't find W, E or even H important ( I said it for myself only) and I automatically belong to that group whose motivation for dissing W and E is obvious. Why was I then dissing the H long before this thread? You can see the clear contradiction in logic there.

Man, I hate you for dragging me back into this, I was really hoping to put it behind

 

[MillieDynamite]

A certain site with a lush-looking site (Yeah, code) isn't shy about sending work back for strange reasons. I left there, having never had a story rejected, and returned, resubmitting Just a Friendly Drink, only to have it sent back with the note (rape isn't acceptable here). I'm like, what rape? Reluctance, maybe, not rape. Finding out from other writers there that they kick a lot of stories based on the editor not liking subject matter that is totally acceptable by site rules. So, with that in mind, and figuring my rough stories that made it last time, wouldn't fly, I left again.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't have all that many red-H's but think I have ever attacked anyone's story for having one.

 

[Voboy]

people called me on that instantly to present some actual data and numbers. Am I then to take this assertion of his as a fact even though you both presented 0 data, just your impressions?

I was not one of those "people." Data are not my thing. I write. My observations on the effect of the Blue W are here, though, in case you wish to reread them. They are not "impressions;" they are observations I made after I won a few things here.

As in, I claimed I don't find W, E or even H important ( I said it for myself only) and I automatically belong to that group whose motivation for dissing W and E is obvious. Why was I then dissing the H long before this thread?

I didn't say I knew why people claim the Magic Colored Letters are unimportant, just that they often do. In fact, I said the opposite: it's not for me to say WHY.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

All right, I feel we simply had some miscommunication due to the sheer amount of posts made. I believe you that blue W attracts readers, I never argued it didn't. Also I was referring to your impressions that people who attack E and W are those who don't have them, I wasn't referring to your observations about the relation between W and number of views. Once again, as I rambled in the other thread with you as well, I am not really interested in W and E or H, even though they do attract readers, which is undoubtedly a positive thing. I just said all three of those letters are IN MY OPINION based on something that doesn't let me deduce my own improvement and overall skill as a writer, which is my main motivation to write really, and that is why I don't hold them in high regard, as useful as they are in other ways.

 

[RejectReality]

Stories with Ws regularly get highlighted on the Hubs. Having your link prominently displayed in a primary reader selection location boosts its visibility, and therefore views.

Just like an H, those colored baubles draw a potential reader's attention wherever they are displayed.

Contest Winners and Editor's Picks are also a specific search criteria on the search page.

There's no way that sort of multi-faceted highlighting doesn't put more eyes on work that has those designations. From there, it's up to the story to keep that person engaged.

 

[Duleigh]

So which branch of the service were you in? I seem to remember you mentioning that topic a while ago.

USAF I didn't fly but you can follow my duty stations if you read my stories. First commandment of writing anything:
"Thou shall write what thou knowest"

That's kind of weird; I've never had them cut lines that I remember. I don't think they ever sent back one of my stories either.

My Winter Holiday story A Krissymas Karole, I attempted to make the top of the first page look like Charles Dickens first page of his print edition of A Christmas Carol, but they chopped the first line, so the very first line of the story says:

In Prose​

That's it. It looks dumber than hell. How many votes did I lose because of that? Then they did the exact same thing to Chapter 11 of We're A Wonderful Wife. Again, it's just a title line, but why did they chop it off? I kind of lost my temper and haven't heard back. But she didn't mind me taking over the 750 word support thread.