Symbolism

[Voboy]

I can watch a Tarantino movie the same way I can hum along to "Great Balls of Fire" or "Thriller," or even "Blue Suede Shoes:" it is said that Elvis messed around with 14-year-olds, after all.

Kennedy's rapes haven't ever prevented the nation from idolizing him. I can still appreciate the nuance of Spacey's performances in Se7en and Usual Suspects. He was damn good at his craft. Hell, half the greatest Hollywood hits of the last fifty years have owed a debt to producers and actors who are tied up in Scientology, another thing I think is silly and predatory. Even criminal, perhaps.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to expect moral perfection from high achievers. And it's downright hypocritical to cancel some, but not others.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Good point because all of my contest placings took some hits right after the announcement, but both the monthly and annual I placed in have been left alone.

I've seen some stories here that have W's and the score is in the 4.5's. They're older and have probably been sniped down lower and lower over the years.

I think there are two factors in the common decline of scores for prize winning stories.

There are the trolls who just knock the scores down out of spite.

But there is a more benign factor, the simple fact that, initially, a large percentage of the votes cast for the story come from the author's followers. Once it gets its W, the story attracts a wider audience that is less predisposed to be favorable to the author's writing.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Well, you don't need to be a good man to be a good actor or director, and don't even get me started on Kennedy. Only in politics you get to be called a hero for almost destroying the world. Most people only ever see a facade, and not many try to look beyond.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there are two factors in the common decline of scores for prize winning stories.

There are the trolls who just knock the scores down out of spite.

But there is a more benign factor, the simple fact that, initially, a large percentage of the votes cast for the story come from the author's followers. Once it gets its W, the story attracts a wider audience that is less predisposed to be favorable to the author's writing.

I agree. I suspect this happened to me, last summer. I won a contest, and I imagine some people said, "let's check out Simon's story since it won," and some people, after reading it, thought, "that's not so great." My story's score went from close to 4.8 at the time of winning to 4.7 now. It doesn't bother me. It has no ongoing impact on whether my stories get read or enjoyed.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I agree. I suspect this happened to me, last summer. I won a contest, and I imagine some people said, "let's check out Simon's story since it won," and some people, after reading it, thought, "that's not so great." My story's score went from close to 4.8 at the time of winning to 4.7 now. It doesn't bother me. It has no ongoing impact on whether my stories get read or enjoyed.

I suspect that most people who are inclined to click on a story because it has a W don't bother to take notice of the score.

 

[Voboy]

I suspect that most people who are inclined to click on a story because it has a W don't bother to take notice of the score.

Nor the category. Nor the writer, probably.

 

[RejectReality]

TBH I never got the couple of his films I saw. Pulp Fiction's popularity eluded me, and even his vignette in Sin City I didn't care for. Other than that I've seen nothing, will see nothing and wouldn't shit in his mouth if someone paid me.

I swear I thought I was the only one. Watched part of a couple of films, riffed through Natural Born Killers when virtually everyone else in the theater walked out and the few people remaining were enjoying our jokes, ( I know he's disowned the film, but he wrote the original version ) and I've had no desire to watch anything since.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Too bad no one ever has a problem with Mr rape enabler himself Tarantino. Admitted he knew what Harvey was doing and didn't say a word.

Not a fan of his either, but I think we went over that one a while back.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The Blue W, in my experience, SIGNIFICANTLY increases views and comments in the short and medium term. In the immediate term, it often attracts downvotes if it's a contest win, though not if it's a monthly win.

This might not be a "Blue W Effect;" it might stem from the announcement of the Blue W being prominently displayed on the front page of the site, with a link to the story.

My one and only W was for a monthly win, and it has maintained an average of approximately 1,300 views per month since it was published 105 months ago.

Since I haven't been tracking stats long enough, I can't tell how much of that monthly view average to attribute to the W versus the addition over the years of sequels that motivate readers to go back to the first story.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I suspect that most people who are inclined to click on a story because it has a W don't bother to take notice of the score.

This appears to definitely apply to stories with an E. Scrolling through the list show a good number of them don't score high enough for an H, yet Laurel apparently liked them.

 

[XerXesXu]

This appears to definitely apply to stories with an E. Scrolling through the list show a good number of them don't score high enough for an H, yet Laurel apparently liked them.

This one has an E and an H, no sex, but essential reading.

https://www.literotica.com/s/ai-and-our-impossibly-horny-decade

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The E could be an even stronger troll magnet than the blue W; it's so much more fun shooting down Laurel's darlings. Also here, it may protect the story if the badge is given after the story left the 'New Stories' list.

I'd like to think that Laurel considers those stories to bring something different; not just stories that Laurel likes to read, but stories she considers to add something to the website. Maybe that's why, these days, it mainly seems to be 'How To' 's and 'Reviews & Essays' that make it to the list.

True, and many of those contain opinions that she must agree with, but not a lot of facts.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not a fan of his either, but I think we went over that one a while back.

We did, I'm what my grandmother would call a nudge, I like to remind people whenever I can about their selective morals. I'm far from perfect, but I never pretend to be nor do I put on fake airs. If someone is going to squeal in outrage over Harvey or any of the others, and I find out you flock to Tarentino movies because its oh so cool to say you like him, then I'm going to call it out and shove the bullshit back in their faces. No one likes the truth, that's why they deny it.

 

[nice90sguy]

I've never liked Tarantino's movies, they completely went over (or under) my head, even though I like comic-book violence (I love the Marvel movies). But I'm not getting why he's getting such flack -- has he said something outside of his movies that makes him a Bad Guy now? I don't really read celebrity news, so I have no idea what the fuss is about with him.

Reading the posts here, it looks like he's said something controversial about rape, but he always struck me as a bit of a dumbass, not someone with anything meaningful to say.

 

[Voboy]

I've never liked Tarantino's movies, they completely went over (or under) my head, even though I like comic-book violence (I love the Marvel movies). But I'm not getting why he's getting such flack -- has he said something outside of his movies that makes him a Bad Guy now? I don't really read celebrity news, so I have no idea what the fuss is about with him.

Reading the posts here, it looks like he's said something controversial about rape, but he always struck me as a bit of a dumbass, not someone with anything meaningful to say.

I think he said he knew about Weinstein's behavior all along and kept stumm about it, and I think in the past he made some vague reference to making Uma Thurman "uncomfortable" while filming Kill Bill. But I thought the context there was physical discomfort, not sexual.

 

[nice90sguy]

Ok I sort of get it now.

Uma Thurman made me uncomfortable in Kill Bill, but in a good way.

 

[alohadave]

I think he said he knew about Weinstein's behavior all along and kept stumm about it

A lot of people in Hollywood knew. It was an open secret. Those kinds of people have run the business from the very beginning. Look up some of what was done to Judy Garland when she was young.

Not to defend anyone involved, but it's like a deal with the devil, you can exercise your morals or you can get your movies made. If anyone thinks that because Weinstein was outed, that the problem is gone, they are very naive. The other bosses are just as bad, but better at being circumspect.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think he said he knew about Weinstein's behavior all along and kept stumm about it,

Yes - he denied having known about the rapes but knew about Weinstein's sexual harassment well before it was public, and talked about wishing he'd done something about it. (Talk is cheap.)

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/07/quentin-tarantino-harvey-weinstein-spoke-up-1234648215/

and I think in the past he made some vague reference to making Uma Thurman "uncomfortable" while filming Kill Bill. But I thought the context there was physical discomfort, not sexual.

Tarantino pushed Thurman to do a stunt she wasn't comfortable with on Kill Bill. It went wrong and she was permanently injured. In fairness I'll note that she only blames the producers (Weinstein being one of them) and credits Tarantino for giving her footage of the accident even though it could've damaged him. Again, he's expressed contrition for however much value one puts on that. But I think if one takes that kind of a job, and passes on orders that get people hurt - even reluctantly - one has to take some responsibility for it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/02/uma-thurman-crash-footage-kill-bill-instagram

Maybe just me, but I also find it a bit gross that a guy who's well known for having a foot fetish wrote himself a scene where he gets to suck on an actress's toes (From Dusk Till Dawn). It's one thing to put one's own fetishes into movies but another to turn it into an opportunity to act those fetishes out oneself.

 

[SimonDoom]

Guess which of these middle chapters has a blue W, and when it was applied. ( Ignoring that I obviously forgot to update the views for 15 there at one point )

View attachment 2203853

The one with the W consistently gets at least half again as many views as the chapters on either side. Because they're all middle chapters, it doesn't really amount to a hill o' beans, but a self-contained story getting that sort of highlighting is undoubtedly going to result in lots more attention.

Here's another one. Both published about a month apart in the same category.

Title/Category/Pub. Date/Score/Views/Votes/Comments/Favs/Lists

Rear-Ended Anal 12/13/2019 4.53 87879 778 8 87 119

Rim Fire Anal 11/7/2019 4.75 358039 3354 51 601 790

Granted, Rim Fire is a much better story, has a boost from buzz words in the description, and doesn't suffer from dub-con giving people the heebie jeebies, but I'd say the W has something to do with how it's performed nevertheless.

(( LOL The forum still has functionality built in to take tables pasted into a post and apply bbcode to display them as tables, but the table bbcode no longer works ))

It's always useful to see real data as opposed to relying upon the sheer speculation that most of us (myself included) trade in here. With regard to your stories highlighted above, I'd be curious to look at the views that the stories received BEFORE getting the Ws. I remember Rim Fire, because I really liked it, and I had been looking for an Anal story to read. I read it and voted on it before it won the award and the symbol, and my recollection is that it was successful right out of the gate--it had a highly unusual number of views for a story in that category.

My rough sense of the data, from what I've seen, is that exposure to eyeballs is the key. Catching people's attention, one way or another. Getting a good symbol can be a way to do that, but people have to see the symbol to begin with. I suspect a huge chunk of readers are newbies who have no idea what the symbols mean.

 

[RejectReality]

It's always useful to see real data as opposed to relying upon the sheer speculation that most of us (myself included) trade in here. With regard to your stories highlighted above, I'd be curious to look at the views that the stories received BEFORE getting the Ws. I remember Rim Fire, because I really liked it, and I had been looking for an Anal story to read. I read it and voted on it before it won the award and the symbol, and my recollection is that it was successful right out of the gate--it had a highly unusual number of views for a story in that category.

My rough sense of the data, from what I've seen, is that exposure to eyeballs is the key. Catching people's attention, one way or another. Getting a good symbol can be a way to do that, but people have to see the symbol to begin with. I suspect a huge chunk of readers are newbies who have no idea what the symbols mean.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have any data collection other than what I already posted for Rim Fire. If I get a chance, I'll look through my excel folder for anything else. Sometimes I grab data for a one-off reason and don't really remember it's there. All my main tracks have a common naming scheme, so they're all grouped together. Like I said in the post, it has a lot of things going for it where the other story has a big ol' sea anchor weighing it down. ( dub-con ) Rim Fire also benefited from a long-term stay on the toplist. I do remember it jumping above its already favorable return as soon as that W went on, and it's never really died down since.

The massive jump on SOTM 16 and consistent overperformance is fairly telling, I think. There's nothing special about that chapter other than the Hoover nuking enough low votes for it to come out a Monthly winner. Prior to the award, it was in expected sync with the chapters on either side of it. Ch. 15 is .05 higher in score now, yet 16 continues to get half again ( or better ) views every time I collect the data. The W is basically the only factor that could logically be causing that.

 

[MillieDynamite]

TBH I never got the couple of his films I saw. Pulp Fiction's popularity eluded me, and even his vignette in Sin City I didn't care for. Other than that I've seen nothing, will see nothing and wouldn't shit in his mouth if someone paid me.

Sin City was Robert Rodriguez with some help given by QT. He was listed as "Special Guest Director" but he only directed the car sequence featuring Clive Owen and Benicio del Toro. And I think Frank Miller directed some of the picture as well. I loved Kill Bill 1 & 2 and Reservoir Dogs. Sin City, was to me, wonderful. The second one, not so much.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Too bad no one ever has a problem with Mr rape enabler himself Tarantino. Admitted he knew what Harvey was doing and didn't say a word.
But I guess when asshats in Hollywood and its fans think its trendy to like your movies, its all good. Hypocrites.

Hollywood operates under a different set of rules than the rest of the world.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

TBH I never got the couple of his films I saw. Pulp Fiction's popularity eluded me, and even his vignette in Sin City I didn't care for. Other than that I've seen nothing, will see nothing and wouldn't shit in his mouth if someone paid me.

He claims to not be a racist, but he uses some of the most racially charged words in his movies possible. Even in some interviews he used words that no white person should be using. I think, rather than wanting to help diffuse any racial problems, he likes to inflame them. I also think he wants to be black. My husband, James, who is actually black, can't stand him.

 

[lovecraft68]

He claims to not be a racist, but he uses some of the most racially charged words in his movies possible. Even in some interviews he used words that no white person should be using. I think, rather than wanting to help diffuse any racial problems, he likes to inflame them. I also think he wants to be black. My husband, James, who is actually black, can't stand him.

I agree, but again we have to follow herd mentality. Because the brain dead woke like his movies they can't call him a racist cause then they'd be racist.
So they ignore the fact he could have stopped women from being raped and didn't. Abused the shit out of Uma Thurman and is a racist shit stain

But because he did a movie where Nazi's were the bad guys he's totally not racist and totally awesome. But if I, or any regular person, said those things we'd be 'cancelled'

I hope some day he gets his ass beat half to death by a woman, or more fun it could be a black woman.

 

[SimonDoom]

Admitted he knew what Harvey was doing and didn't say a word.

At least he admitted it. Most didn't.

Do you seriously think there is anyone in the movie industry who had significant dealings with Harvey Weinstein who didn't know about it? I don't. They all knew. His behavior was brazen and unrestrained and went on for years. I'm sure everyone knew. Tarantino was wrong to keep quiet about it, but so was everyone else. So what do we do, stop watching movies?

Make a mental list of all the famous rock bands you've liked over the years. My guess is at least half of them have band members that abused women or committed statutory rape. What are you going to do about that? Stop listening to their music, just in case you might be supporting abusers of women? Of course, you are not going to do that.

Is anything productive achieved by saying, "That shit Tarantino didn't speak up when he should have, so I'm not going to watch his movies"? Maybe you think so. I don't.

Sexual discrimination, harassment, and abuse are rampant, not just in the entertainment industry but everywhere. It should be condemned and called out. If you or others want to respond to it by withholding your dollars from the products of certain entertainers you disapprove of, fine. But please don't convince yourself that you're somehow taking a moral high road that entitles you to judge and condemn others who take different approaches.

My view is, if you are morally serious and you want to avoid hypocrisy altogether you're going to have to throw away all your entertainment outlets and devices, run away to the mountains, and live in seclusion like a hermit. But even then you might find that the guy who owns the nearest store where you buy your lumber is a pedophile.