subing and self-worth

[sweetnpetite]

I have posted elsewhere, that I have seen profiles on lit and elsewhere where the woman says something like "you can' do whatever you want to me" and she seems to be trying to be submissive, but she just comes off as pathetic. She doesn't seem to be saying that she enjoys being a pleaser, but just that perhaps thats the only way she knows to get a man. So this post is for dom/mes as well as subs to discuss the diference between a true submissive relationship and an abusive (physically and or mentally) one, about the importance of your own self worth in the context of being a sub, avoiding abusive relationships, guarding against giving out that pathetic pushover vibe I mentioned earlier, and anything else pretty much that relates to the subject. Fire away!

 

[WynEternal]

From my personal pov and experience, a submissive should take pride in what s/he does. Coming from my background, I had a hard time realizing my self worth and was on a crash course to getting myself seriously hurt or even killed. The doormat mentality is does show a lack of self esteem and is a green light to abusers who look for that sort of thing. If you know what your self worth is, then you should realize when you're being mistreated/abused.

An abused person will not have the will power to walk away from an abusive relationship unless they conciously decide to stand firm and do it. They will see themselves as trapped with no options until then. Subs know that they always have an option to leave a relationship (not talking about Dom hopping here).

 

[Shadowsdream]

I guess I am going to take this post from a different angle...when I see a profile from ANYONE...male, female, sub or otherwise that says " You can do anything you want to me" what I see is a person that is really saying " do lots to me"...I don't see it as giving but as finding a new door for taking.
Bores Me.
But then I am a stickler for reading between the lines.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I guess I am going to take this post from a different angle...when I see a profile from ANYONE...male, female, sub or otherwise that says " You can do anything you want to me" what I see is a person that is really saying " do lots to me"...I don't see it as giving but as finding a new door for taking.
Bores Me.
But then I am a stickler for reading between the lines.

Ok, I see your point. But that was just one example. Have you seen any profiles where you felt the person was asking to be a doormat, rather than a submissive?

 

[Shadowsdream]

Ok, I see your point. But that was just one example. Have you seen any profiles where you felt the person was asking to be a doormat, rather than a submissive?

No I can't say that I have...

 

[meria_serves]

i have found incredible validation in being submissive

Before i acknowledged my submissive side, there was always a question of whether i was truly pleasing, was i maintaining my "space" in the relationship, were we equals .... < sighs >

Now - i dont' have those petty concerns. All i have to worry about is pleasing Him, and He lets me know in no uncertain terms that i have. < smiles > He also makes sure i know that i am progressing in my training, and where i need to improve, so that i am constantly challenged and growing.

Self worth? sure i have times that i struggle, wondering if He will someday find another girl who is closer to Him, who can be more to Him, do more to Him ... but He assures me that no-one can replace me, so i try to rest in that.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm so exighted! I've got an avatar!!!

Just so everybody knows the point that i'm making is that I feel a true submissive definatly does have (and know) self-worth, and subbing inforces rather than takes away from that! And I'd love to hear anyones experiences along those lines.

I know that sometimes when I'm its just right, I just feel flooded with a feeling of being beautiful and cherished. Its not always about that feeling of being degrades or humiliated (although I enjoy that too )

And beyond that, in my day to day life, I am a strong willed "fuck-you" kinda girl with plenty of self esteem. (not that that's the only way to have self esteem) sometimes i do experience self doubt- but its not about that. just life.

 

[SilverHyperion]

Well my own feelings towards this are that a good Dom/me, sub relationship leaves the sub feeling fulfilled. I have seen personal ads that say "you can do anything to me" and to me I see it more like the person is just horny, and not necessarily into the true Bdsm aspect of it. It seems like an act of desperation, so I do see what you mean as far as "is it a self-esteem" issue. Theres a difference between being willing to try anything and saying "okay well I dont care what you do as long as you do something". I have no idea what I'm trying to say here and I think I got off topic...I'm too tired to be posting haha

 

[Justina123]

Just as you said, sweetnpetite, my d/s relationship makes me feel cherished and special. As our relationship has grown, I have come to the point where I can say with confidence, "You can do anything to me" and it truly is an act of trust, devotion, and a little daring. I never said this to anyone else before meeting B, but having reached that point with him, it definitely is an esteem builder for BOTH of us.

Oh, and when we enter a club or party or munch and I am so obviously with him, perhaps even on his leash, that RAISES my feeling of being cherished and special and esteemed.

Don't know if that is relevant, just my late night thoughts, ha!

- justina

 

[entitled]

It's very important for a sub to have high self-esteem, imo. Without that self-esteem and a little bit of attitude to go with it a person would just end up being a washed-up, spiritless sack of flesh. Not many people i know would even consider somebody like that.

Having said that, it's always nice to think that everybody would consider the fact that every last one of us has moments of weakness, when everything we do is tinged with that note of desperation. A lot of that comes across in how we say things or how we act. Since only one of those is available here, can we really judge a person by the little blurb in a user profile? How many of us have tossed something up there, then neglected to change it later? It's only after a person is continually assaulted with these bouts of desperation or hopelessness that they become the human doormat. Often it shows through in the way they word their posts and/or stories - always demurring to the popular belief, never standing up for their views in any way, not joking around at all, etc. It's best to judge by an all-around view made up by paying attention to a person's posts than by their profile. They tend to be less misleading.

 

[Goddess Helena]

I always made sure that My boy knew that he was cherished and adored. He was proud of his service to Me and of My ownership of him. He knew that if he was not what I desired, he would not be My boy. He would glow with pleasure and pride when I would praise him for doing well. He was also proud to have Me as his Mistress.

I do not think that desperation is a good thing in a prospective submissive.


Helena

 

[Ebonyfire]

I guess I am going to take this post from a different angle...when I see a profile from ANYONE...male, female, sub or otherwise that says " You can do anything you want to me" what I see is a person that is really saying " do lots to me"...I don't see it as giving but as finding a new door for taking.
Bores Me.
But then I am a stickler for reading between the lines.

I have to say that I agree.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I do not think that desperation is a good thing in a prospective submissive.


Helena

Desperation pisses me off. Reminds me too much of vanilla dating behaviour. Also, desperate male subs tend to be aggressive in their behavour.

 

[RoughPlay]

I think self worth is very important in a sub. I would have no interest in
a sub who lacked self worth and gave out a pathetic pushover vibe. I would
only want a sub who is self confident and knows how valuable and important
she is. The fact that someone with this self confidence and certainty CHOOSES
to surrender herself to me is extremely arousing and a massive ego trip since
it confirms how important and worthwhile I must be.

Allowing so much to be done to her (through still within her limits) is
proof that she genuinely is submitting herself and truly belongs to her
Master. As she is giving so much a Master really has no choice but to love,
cherish and value her in return improving her self worth and making her
happy to surrender herself. A truly wonderful virtuous circle.

Occasional short bouts (3 or 4 per year) of sub self doubt and insecurity
would be no problem and the extra sub vulnerability would probably improve
the relationship.

A sub should never think that surrendering herself makes her worth less.
The opposite is true. The more extreme the acts she submits herself to the
more she is worth.

 

[MissTaken]

There is a huge difference between being submissive and being a doormat.

In order to truly submit, one has to be confident in who he or she is and trust their own judgment.

Without confidence, you can't trust your judgement and therefore, will doubt your relationship, doubt your Dom/me and the relationship won't work.

A sub who needs constant reinforcement in terms of building her self esteem would be exhausting for the Dom/me and in that situation, who is really in control?

 

[Shadowsdream]

I'm so exighted! I've got an avatar!!!

Just so everybody knows the point that i'm making is that I feel a true submissive definatly does have (and know) self-worth, and subbing inforces rather than takes away from that! And I'd love to hear anyones experiences along those lines.

I know that sometimes when I'm its just right, I just feel flooded with a feeling of being beautiful and cherished. Its not always about that feeling of being degrades or humiliated (although I enjoy that too )

And beyond that, in my day to day life, I am a strong willed "fuck-you" kinda girl with plenty of self esteem. (not that that's the only way to have self esteem) sometimes i do experience self doubt- but its not about that. just life.

Congratulations on the avatar! A very intrigueing choice....the facial expression is very interesting

 

[Justina123]

Miiss T says:

A sub who needs constant reinforcement in terms of building her self esteem would be exhausting for the Dom/me and in that situation, who is really in control?

Oh, oh, I probably fit into this category, I do have an awful lot of insecurity (won't go into the history here, but suffice it to say there is one), but I am fortunate enough to have a Dom who is naturally very affectionate, holds hands when driving, pats my head or strokes my back when watching TV, touches me (somewhere!) most times he walks by me in the house, etc.... for me, these little actions are what I just plain need and what help me fight the insecurities, etc. When we are apart, these are the actions I think back on and which carry me through, as much as any of the exciting erotic stuff...

Am curious how much affection of this type does or does not play a role in other d/s relationships?

- justina

 

[Shadowsdream]

Miiss T says:

A sub who needs constant reinforcement in terms of building her self esteem would be exhausting for the Dom/me and in that situation, who is really in control?

Oh, oh, I probably fit into this category, I do have an awful lot of insecurity (won't go into the history here, but suffice it to say there is one), but I am fortunate enough to have a Dom who is naturally very affectionate, holds hands when driving, pats my head or strokes my back when watching TV, touches me (somewhere!) most times he walks by me in the house, etc.... for me, these little actions are what I just plain need and what help me fight the insecurities, etc. When we are apart, these are the actions I think back on and which carry me through, as much as any of the exciting erotic stuff...

Am curious how much affection of this type does or does not play a role in other d/s relationships?

- justina

Many Dominants like Myself are continually reinforcing the self worth of those they have chosen.
Watching for the moments of vulnerability that the sub has not even recognized yet. Preventing the slide to self doubt before it can rear its ugly head.
We do it for the joy it brings Us to help the submissive understand that they are valuable...if they were not they would have never been chosen.
I do not see this need as being a doormat..as it is an active emotion.

 

[RoughPlay]

naturally very affectionate, holds hands when driving, pats my head or strokes my back when watching TV, touches me (somewhere!) most times he walks by me in the house, etc....

Hi Justina123. Doing these things to a sub would be a pleasure not a burden
particularly if she shows constant appreciation by her body language, facial
expression, tone of voice, etc.

Do you ever need verbal reassurance ?

 

[WynEternal]

Many Dominants like Myself are continually reinforcing the self worth of those they have chosen.
Watching for the moments of vulnerability that the sub has not even recognized yet. Preventing the slide to self doubt before it can rear its ugly head.
We do it for the joy it brings Us to help the submissive understand that they are valuable...if they were not they would have never been chosen.
I do not see this need as being a doormat..as it is an active emotion.

Shadows, I was very much in good fortune when Mistress chose me to be her's that she was very much like you.

 

[Ebonyfire]

A sub who needs constant reinforcement in terms of building her self esteem would be exhausting for the Dom/me and in that situation, who is really in control?

Exactly. I would not want to take on a sub who has those kinds of issues.

 

[Justina123]

Shadowsdream: We do it for the joy it brings Us to help the submissive understand that they are valuable...if they were not they would have never been chosen.

Shadow, thank you for this neat perspective, it is very helpful to understand how the Dominant also can benefit from making the submissive feel valued and cherished. You have this way of cutting right to the heart of a matter...

Roughplay: Hi Justina123. Doing these things to a sub would be a pleasure not a burden particularly if she shows constant appreciation by her body language, facial expression, tone of voice, etc.

Do you ever need verbal reassurance ?

Ditto, Roughplay, for your perspective as well. Sir is somewhat sparing with his words and compliments, but that makes them all the more valued. He does often call me "sweetheart" or "pet" or even "slut" (which I have, surprisingly to me, learned to love being called) and just those little reassurances of my place mean a ton.

-justina

 

[RoughPlay]

I have seen profiles on lit and elsewhere where the woman says something like "you can' do whatever you want to me" and she seems to be trying to be submissive, but she just comes off as pathetic.

Hi Sweetnpetite

I saw the following add several months ago. I was wondering
if this was the sort of ad you had in mind ?

What do you think of her ad ?


"ne1canspankme"
I am a 22 yo woman who wants to be spanked hard...

Profile: I love spanking...and anyother
fantasy...do w/ me what you will i want to be a
slave and fuck as many people who will...old or
young, fat or slim...i don't care anyone can
have my body...

Looking For: A man, a woman or a couple for
Erotic Chat or Email, 1-on-1 sex or Cross-Dressing

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Re: Re: subing and self-worth

Hi Sweetnpetite

I saw the following add several months ago. I was wondering
if this was the sort of ad you had in mind ?

What do you think of her ad ?


"ne1canspankme"
I am a 22 yo woman who wants to be spanked hard...

Profile: I love spanking...and anyother
fantasy...do w/ me what you will i want to be a
slave and fuck as many people who will...old or
young, fat or slim...i don't care anyone can
have my body...

Looking For: A man, a woman or a couple for
Erotic Chat or Email, 1-on-1 sex or Cross-Dressing

Good God, that ad could bring the most dangerous scum of the earth right into her own home. They wouldn't see what she says in "Looking for," only what she says in her profile. I have to wonder if she's still alive today. *shivers*

 

[sweetnpetite]

Many Dominants like Myself are continually reinforcing the self worth of those they have chosen.
Watching for the moments of vulnerability that the sub has not even recognized yet. Preventing the slide to self doubt before it can rear its ugly head.
We do it for the joy it brings Us to help the submissive understand that they are valuable...if they were not they would have never been chosen.
I do not see this need as being a doormat..as it is an active emotion.

Do you thin that female dommes are more conciencece than their male counterparts? [and please don't take this as some kind of covert male bashing- I do that quite openly]