Sub or brat?

[cookiecat]

psssst - cascadia.... it's an awesome, awesome link! My guess though, is it will be lost on deaf, bratty ears.

 

[hooterbif]

Thank you, all.

She seems to be open to learning and claims to have realized all sorts of things. I think that there is some probability that she really isn't learning anything, but rather just says those things. Her mind bounces around like the brain of a frightened squirrel.

I will send her some of the material that you reference above.

 

[hooterbif]

....that is not at all what appears to be going on here. It is just plain ingratitude and manipulation, IMO.

No way is the brat dynamic at play here.

It is pure manipulation in order to compensate for her anxiety. I doubt that she can ever be "whole," despite infinite manipulation of the outside world.

 

[hooterbif]

Anxiety is a really tough thing to cope with in a partner.
It is pervasive and insidious. It is invisible and seemingly self perpetuating.

I know she is in therapy. That is good.
There are some medications that are useful for managing anxiety that are not in the anti-anxiety family (benzodiazapines). I imagine that someone is working with her or that these have been explored.
You seem like you are very concerned about her well being, so I suspect you have done some reading about anxiety and how this can play into relationships and what you can do to not buy into her "stuff" that just feeds the beast.

Some people find that focusing on certain mantras or having to do certain activities when they begin to feel anxious is helpful. I think it is VERY important that you know and understand that you CANNOT DOM her into health. It is not possible to fix her anxiety by being even the most "perfect" Dom. This is, in my experience - a recipe for unhappiness and disaster on all sides.
Only your gf can work on her mental health stuff. You can support her and encourage her, but SHE has to want to be less anxious and function in a more healthy was as a person in the world and in a relationship with another adult and (OMG) three children that count on you.

~ that's my 2 cents ~

cb

Absolutely on all counts. It never would have occurred to me that domming her would fix her anxiety, although I bet that is in her mind.

She is on lots of meds. I don't know what they are, but she does not hide them at all.

She asked me to go to therapy tomorrow. I am not sure if I will go. She has been very open to having me there, but I have not gone. I have basically told her that it is not my responsibility to get enmeshed in her therapy.

(By the way, she just came to my work with my kids for lunch, took a look at my new secretary and started bouncing off the walls. It is like non-stop cra cra).

 

[Misshotndeep]

having read quite a bit of this thread I am going to have to go with a third option. Crazy. No offense to the miss in question meant. Everyone is not made to be a submissive. Every one is not made to be a dom. For someone with her issues it is impossible to build trust and in my opinion impossible to have the sort of relationship you are reaching for. The basics of all intimate relationships is trust. She can't stop lying. I understand it's not her fault, but still. It is a fact.
Now, I am not telling you to run or even leave her. That is all on you man. I am just pointing out an obvious issue that may have been over looked.

 

[hooterbif]

No offense to the miss in question meant

None taken. It is what often happens when one is raped as a child and abused for years.

 

[barefootgirl69]

None taken. It is what often happens when one is raped as a child and abused for years.

I'm sorry that she had to go through that. I'm glad she is getting therapy and help, but I'm wondering how well it is working when she is still behaving this way. The lying, the manipulation after years of meds/therapy... it seems that things shouldn't be so erratic at this time.

I agree with cb and cookie... and pretty much said it yesterday... this isn't just bratty behavior. This is something far deeper, and nothing you are doing seems to be helping. She seems to have a warped idea of what a Dom is... and we will all be quick to tell you a D/s relationship is what you make of it. Maybe she would consider getting to know some people, just as you are, to fully understand what D/s is.

IMHO this is an unhealthy relationship, and I'm hoping that your three children aren't being subjected to most of the drama going on in a relationship. This is their learning experience to how relationships work and they are developing relationship skills at this time. Just a thought. No condemnation. You seem to have your 'act' together, and I applaud the dedication you are giving to this. I just don't see it going anywhere when YOU are the only one who seems to be giving.

 

[cookiecat]

None taken. It is what often happens when one is raped as a child and abused for years.

WTF? To throw this out now feels manipulative on your part. Mightve been important info up front.

Red flags littered all of your posts; many of us picked up on this and now I see why. The issues you both face are far beyond any book you can hand her, any advice you will get from a bunch of strangers who don't know the full story.

For me, not much more to add.

 

[hooterbif]

WTF? To throw this out now feels manipulative on your part. Mightve been important info up front.

Oh, I didn't think to start my posts with that kind of historical detail. It didn't seem like a good conversation starter. I thought that it was apparent that she had some history that put her in her current state.

By the way, the rape and abuse is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Misshotndeep]

None taken. It is what often happens when one is raped as a child and abused for years.

Been there. Done that. Functioning adult here. Make that excuse somewhere else. She is not made for what you are trying to do. It's just a fact. Sorry if it bothers you, but it is.

 

[Misshotndeep]

I'm sorry that she had to go through that. I'm glad she is getting therapy and help, but I'm wondering how well it is working when she is still behaving this way. The lying, the manipulation after years of meds/therapy... it seems that things shouldn't be so erratic at this time.

I agree with cb and cookie... and pretty much said it yesterday... this isn't just bratty behavior. This is something far deeper, and nothing you are doing seems to be helping. She seems to have a warped idea of what a Dom is... and we will all be quick to tell you a D/s relationship is what you make of it. Maybe she would consider getting to know some people, just as you are, to fully understand what D/s is.

IMHO this is an unhealthy relationship, and I'm hoping that your three children aren't being subjected to most of the drama going on in a relationship. This is their learning experience to how relationships work and they are developing relationship skills at this time. Just a thought. No condemnation. You seem to have your 'act' together, and I applaud the dedication you are giving to this. I just don't see it going anywhere when YOU are the only one who seems to be giving.

Oh and what she said!^^^

 

[hooterbif]

She is not made for what you are trying to do.

Sounds fine by me. Remember, the D/S play was her desire, her craving, her insistence. I have been doing my best to try to make that happen. I never saw it as a "cure" for her past, and she never presented it that way.

If her past means that she cannot do this kind of play, then fine by me! That would be a relief - believe me!

 

[hooterbif]

I'm hoping that your three children aren't being subjected to most of the drama going on in a relationship. This is their learning experience to how relationships work and they are developing relationship skills at this time. Just a thought. No condemnation.

Yep, keeps me up at night. I am on the verge of asking her to move out so that she is not around when the children are with me (50/50 shared custody). I am thinking of going with her to her therapist tomorrow to say this. The kids say almost every day, "Why does she get irritated so quickly? Why is she always angry? Why does she lock herself in the bedroom all night?" It is just non-stop conflict-making.

 

[Misshotndeep]

Sounds fine by me. Remember, the D/S play was her desire, her craving, her insistence. I have been doing my best to try to make that happen. I never saw it as a "cure" for her past, and she never presented it that way.

If her past means that she cannot do this kind of play, then fine by me! That would be a relief - believe me!

I don't think she understands that she has to trust you completely. She needs to be honest for it to be safe. it's about more than you fucking her or "training" her. To be honest you don't seem to be the Dom type of guy. It's a mind, body and soul fuck. Not just a body fuck. And yes I have been a dom. It's a hard job and I can't even do it. I am not that attentive.

 

[hooterbif]

I don't think she understands that she has to trust you completely. She needs to be honest for it to be safe. it's about more than you fucking her or "training" her. To be honest you don't seem to be the Dom type of guy. It's a mind, body and soul fuck. Not just a body fuck. And yes I have been a dom. It's a hard job and I can't even do it. I am not that attentive.

OK by me. I could see being Dom with the right person (who isn't constantly tearing me down).

 

[hooterbif]

it's about more than you fucking her or "training" her.

I am not training her. She is trying to train me.

 

[Misshotndeep]

I am not training her. She is trying to train me.

Hold on, hold on.She is the DOM!?! Are you fucking nuts. She will kill you during one of her episodes. I agree with the general thought. Run forest, run!

 

[SpunThings]

I will note that it is possible for subs to be abusive too.

 

[hooterbif]

Subs don't "train" Doms.

Well, I doubt that she would say that she is "training" me at all, but I think that the word accurately characterizes what is happening as you might agree from reading this thread (and others I have started).

You may have agreed to a D/s relationship in order to meet her subby needs...

We both had an interest in D/S, so it is not as simple as saying she asked me to be dom to meet her needs.

but YOU need to figure out what kind of Dom you are. Cause you have to inhabit your own skin. If you are just on some level going through the motions of being a Dom (and I really don't mean that pejoratively) in order to become the Dom she has in her head this will fucking never work.

Well, the picture I see is that I dominate her and she craves it. I am comfortable regarding that as inhabiting my own skin. The issue isn't not knowing what kind of dom to be for me, the issue is knowing what kind of dom to be for her. Evidently, I do not always do it right.

The sexual abuse stuff is difficult but not an absolute deal breaker. Everyone is different. For some people, D/s can be a way to achieve safety and control after having survived assault and rape.

Absolutely. I don't see it as a plus or negative factor in regards to D/S. We have talked about it, and it is clearly more a factor in feeding anxiety.

 

[hooterbif]

I will note that it is possible for subs to be abusive too.

Yep. She acts out. She knows it. If I were Superman, I could control her and she would love that.

 

[NoeMasks]

Bif,

You mentioned a chemical imbalance, that makes her lie. As with any relationship trust is Key, only more so in D/s relationship.