Stimulating the rich

[ullr]

TEXT ought to have been in quotes...

SOURCE for above
http://reason.com/0001/ci.ml.data.shtml
[hot linkl]

 

[ullr]

AND THEN, again, WHAT IF INCOME INEQUALITY is really a myth...?

"[W]hat if increasing inequality is mostly a myth -- an artifact of misleading data and changing lifestyles? What if just about everyone is getting richer?"

NYTimes ecoon columnist, Virginia Postrel, weighs in (August 10, 2000) "ECONOMIC SCENE
Rich May Get Richer, but Poor Are Also Doing Better":
http://www.nytimes.com/library/financial/columns/081000econ-scene.html

Excerpt:
"In an appendix to Professor Fogel's book, Chulhee Lee, a former research associate at the University of Chicago and now an assistant professor at Seoul National University, presents evidence that ***increases in these sorts of variations [also discussed in two posts above] account for much of what looks like a rise in income inequality from 1969 to 1989.***

"*** Changes in how many heads of households and their spouses worked and how many hours they worked accounted for 54 percent of the rise in the spread between the highest 10 percent of household incomes and the lowest 10 percent. Changing wages, by contrast, accounted for less than 6 percent of the increase in the gap. ***"

[***emphasis mine***]

--Orson

 

[Tungwagger]

Debs, Hayden, Malcolm, Rangel, Sharpton, etc have a point---why should the poor fight in wars to protect the interests of the rich.

I just saw on the news.....why it was only yesterday.....

Rangle....ya'know....Charlie boy....is in favor of re-instituting the draft......in fact the report said he had a proposal he was putting before congress...

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm....

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Tungwagger

Apologists for the rich often say that, but I notice they also fight tooth and nail against any attempt to redistribute the wealth, and put that theory to the test. They must not have much faith in its validity . . .

In fact, since 1980 there has been a massive redistribution of wealth in the U.S. Vast amounts have been looted from the working class and the poor, and transferred to the rich.

The GOP-- the party of reverse Robin Hoods. They steal from the poor, and give to the rich!

On the contrary Red....I don't apologize for the rich...I'm very grateful for rich people as it gives me the opportunity to make a decent living...I've tried the self-employed route, and believe me, it's no cake walk.

Why should a person who has acheived not fight tooth and nail for what they have? Why should they be forced to start over? Habitat for humanity is largely funded by donations from rich people..

I understand you now....Everyone should suffer equally even if it has to be enforced at the end of a gun....

Are you gonna be one of the proletariat? Or are you only willing to settle for a party position as a member of the ruling class? You know, the ones who are allow bigger living quarters, better food, and a whole array of perks that the proletariat aren't allowed?

I realize that reading the " Communist Manifesto", by Karl Marx is a long, dry, and boring procedure, but if that's the world you want then perhaps you could move to Cuba, and see the standard of living differences between Castro, and the average citizen first hand, and then come back here and try to tell me how our system is completely flawed.....

 

[REDWAVE]

Slow reader

I love it when people reveal their abysmal ignorance and lack of comprehension of Marxism while badmouthing it. Anyone who takes a long time to read the Communist Manifesto must be a very slow reader. It's quite short. Plus it was written by Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, not Marx alone.

Sheesh! Such idiocy I have to deal with! And arrogant idiots at that!

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Slow reader

I love it when people reveal their abysmal ignorance and lack of comprehension of Marxism while badmouthing it. Anyone who takes a long time to read the Communist Manifesto must be a very slow reader. It's quite short. Plus it was written by Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, not Marx alone.

Sheesh! Such idiocy I have to deal with! And arrogant idiots at that!

Now you know how we feel.

Wrong you are-Nader on Crossfire today said the minimum wage would have to be $8.00 to be comparable to the rate of 1968 (you aren't worth the time for me to look it up). People making $5.15 an hour, especially in expensive areas such as the PAC coast and NE is ridiculous.

And most of them will get raises in a few months (or else they seriously need a new job) or are teenagers.

TB4p

 

[REDWAVE]

Point of information

That second quote is not from me, TB4P.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Point of information

That second quote is not from me, TB4P.

Ah crap, I hate when I do that.

Fixed shortly.

TB4p

 

[Don K Dyck]

Draft is Coming . . .

I just saw on the news.....why it was only yesterday.....

Rangle....ya'know....Charlie boy....is in favor of re-instituting the draft......in fact the report said he had a proposal he was putting before congress...

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm....

Hey Tungwagger . . . an interesting observation about conscription being brought back in the U$ by the Bush Dynasty . . . makes sense . . . I mean, how can you establish a good ole fashioned European style dictatorship with all those guns in the hands of the citizens??

Must follow the Hitler model and confiscate all firearms . . . and failing that, well, there will have to be a huge government sponsored army to restrict the population to non-resource zones, much like military zones but with less in them . . . the cover story will be "protecting U$ assets overseas" . . . all in the name of imperialist exploitation of other people's natural resources . . .

Remember that you heard it first on Lit . . .

 

[RunningHard]

Wow another beautific post by Redwave. Little pinko sorry you have such a hard time accepting reality .

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Slow reader

I love it when people reveal their abysmal ignorance and lack of comprehension of Marxism while badmouthing it. Anyone who takes a long time to read the Communist Manifesto must be a very slow reader. It's quite short. Plus it was written by Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels, not Marx alone.

Sheesh! Such idiocy I have to deal with! And arrogant idiots at that!

And I love it when you only have one jab at me about my post, what about the rest of it?

Are you going to be happy being one of the "working" class, or do you feel your talents would be better served in the "ruling" class?

The only socialist model that will ever come to be in America is at the point of a gun. Therefore we would become the USSR revisted.

I'll admit that it's been a number of years since I read the manifesto, and perhaps my recollection of how long and boring it is is based on the fact that it was a requirement of my job duties while serving in the military, to do a report on the merits, and the flaws encapsulated within it.

Perhaps I don't bother to go back and read it because it doesn't interest me to do so, not for the sole purpose of arguing with a person such as yourself who has absolutely no intention of altering their opinions.

I'm sure that you won't bother to frequent websites that don't interest you regardless of what you might learn.

And keep waiting for that "utopian socialist" world you want, it ain't gonna happen. In fact hold your breath.......please!!

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Draft is Coming . . .

Hey Tungwagger . . . an interesting observation about conscription being brought back in the U$ by the Bush Dynasty . . . makes sense . . . I mean, how can you establish a good ole fashioned European style dictatorship with all those guns in the hands of the citizens??

Must follow the Hitler model and confiscate all firearms . . . and failing that, well, there will have to be a huge government sponsored army to restrict the population to non-resource zones, much like military zones but with less in them . . . the cover story will be "protecting U$ assets overseas" . . . all in the name of imperialist exploitation of other people's natural resources . . .

Remember that you heard it first on Lit . . .

Read the second line of my sig....that about sums my feelings up...

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: Median income is 26,000?

Hell, if thats true, I feel good that at least I am in the top 50%.

Kids gone, house paid for, I just want a deduction!

You lucky man! I wish I had everything paid for.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: And then there are other considerations of the data...

as was noted in Reason magazine Janauary 2000:
(Michael W. Lynch)

You've heard the complaint:... there is far too much income inequality in America. This gripe is grounded in data from the U.S. Census Bureau's annual report on income, the latest version of which was released in September. According to those data, the 20 percent of Americans with the lowest incomes earn a mere 3.6 percent of all wages paid, while the top 20 percent take home 49 percent of the loot. Translated into money terms, that means for every $1 earned by someone in the bottom quintile, a top quintile person earns more than $13.

Not true, says a recent report...identifies three significant sources of bias in the Census Bureau figures.

[1] First, the quintiles are not really quintiles. The top quintile actually has 24.3 percent of all income earners, while the bottom contains only 14.8 percent. That's because the bureau counts households, rather than individuals, and high-earner households are more likely to be composed of married couples with multiple earners than are low-income households.

[2] Second, the bureau leaves out some forms of income, including government benefits such as food stamps, and fails to adjust for the significantly higher taxes paid by high earners.

[3]Third, the bureau doesn't account for the fact that ***those in the top quintile work nearly twice as many hours as those in the bottom.***

***After these adjustments...the spread is reduced to $3.08 for every $1 earned. Which sounds almost European.***

[***emphasis mine***

--Orson]

Nice analysis..throw in that age distribution curve that you mentioned above and everything comes out even closer

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: Draft is Coming . . .

Read the second line of my sig....that about sums my feelings up...

I have, and smiled . . . read some American history published outside the USA . . .

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Someone up above said they have no sympathy for the $100M person. I don't either really, but why should we take from him what he earned. Why don't we strive to set up an environment where more people can create enough goods and services to earn $100M? Why should we take from him what he or she has earned?

There's the obvious economic reality of it too. If you take all the people with $100M and above in earnings (there are very few of them) and tax them at 100% of what they make....you might be able to run the government for part of one day. In shear dollars, there's just not that much. So, we all have to pay. The biggest question is...how much should we pay and what services do we expect for that amount?

 

[Tungwagger]

Ok, Redwave, I went and did a cursory screening of the Communist manifesto, and it all came rushing back.....

I am guilty of not following the principles of the proletariat...In that I:

1.) own property (well, me and the bank)

2.) I am not doing my job for the collective good of the proletariat. But rather for selfish means only, therefore increasing the power base of the BOOOOSHHHWAAHHHH (I'm not even gonna try and spell it) <I feel so exploited>

3.) I'm a sell out to my own people (the proletariat).

4.) I'm not willing to sacrifice my own comfort for the good of the proletariat. (I must be an exploiter)

Well spank my ass with a wet noodle!!!

Ever heard the term "survival of the fittest"? I realize that isn't PC to say that about the "proletariat", but I don't give a rat's ass....In America, you can still be what you want (but that would require a desire to do better than your neighbor, and that isn't PC)

I still don't buy your clap trap....or the Manifesto...it was written by citizen's of a country that for all arguments no longer exists....
They clearly stated their mission was to abolish all private property....FUCK YOU!!! I've worked too many years for lunatics of your ilk to condemn me for living in the greatest country ever created, and agreeing to it's principles.

Have a nice day.....

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Re: Re: Draft is Coming . . .

I have, and smiled . . . read some American history published outside the USA . . .

Hmm,

methinks it's perhaps a hook.....

American history written outside the United States? Written by Americans? And if it is Americans writing it, could it be skewed to their own sense of paranoia?

Gimme some links man....don't just dangle a hook and not put a worm on it.....

 

[miles]

Look what else the Manifesto proposes:

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all rights of inheritance

Sound familiar?

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Draft is Coming . . .

Must follow the Hitler model and confiscate all firearms . . . and failing that, well, there will have to be a huge government sponsored army to restrict the population to non-resource zones, much like military zones but with less in them . . . the cover story will be "protecting U$ assets overseas" . . . all in the name of imperialist exploitation of other people's natural resources . . .

Remember that you heard it first on Lit . . .

I'm pleased to see Australia has adopted the Hitler model. Too bad murders and crime in general have increased there since now only criminals have guns.
As for conscription in the U.S., it's not going to happen. The all-volunteer services don't need a glut of new personnel.
And if you're looking for imperialist exploitation, why didn't it happen in 1991 during the Gulf War? It was there for the taking.
The U.S. buys natural resources.

 

[Tungwagger]

Look what else the Manifesto proposes:

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all rights of inheritance

Sound familiar?

Thanks for covering my back Miles....

It was still a long boring read, made me want to jerk off in a sarcastic manner....

But hey, at least in the Manifesto, an artist can keep what he paints, ...wouldn't want them damn artists to actually profit from their talents and one day become one of the BOOOSSHHHWAHHH.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: Draft is Coming . . .

I'm pleased to see Australia has adopted the Hitler model. Too bad murders and crime in general have increased there since now only criminals have guns.
As for conscription in the U.S., it's not going to happen. The all-volunteer services don't need a glut of new personnel.
And if you're looking for imperialist exploitation, why didn't it happen in 1991 during the Gulf War? It was there for the taking.
The U.S. buys natural resources.

Hi Ham,

Many aussies are concerned about the Nazi proclivities of the Liberal Party under Prim Monster Honest Johnnie "Flakjacket" Howard . . . the Port Arthur massacre which caused the legislation rush, was conducted by a nutter with a military weapon handed-in to a gun amnesty in another state. How did it get out of the amnesty colection instead of being destroyed?? There is some analytical evidence that there was also an accomplice.

Most aussies do not like the present gun laws which make criminals of honest people.

Because, as Professor John Warhurst from ANU is saying on Oz ABC Radio right now, it did not suit the U$ to do the sensible thing and roll Saddam HUssein at that time . . . indeed, some people would consider that the U$ needed a proving ground for thier chemical and biological weapons, and as Saddam HUssein had been testing them on the Kurds and Marsh Arabs, Swartzkoff let Saddam Hussein keep his helicopter gunships for such important work . . . That theory makes more strategic sense than just about any other . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Draft is Coming . . .

Hmm,

methinks it's perhaps a hook.....

American history written outside the United States? Written by Americans? And if it is Americans writing it, could it be skewed to their own sense of paranoia?

Gimme some links man....don't just dangle a hook and not put a worm on it.....

OK . . . Try Howard Zinn (1980) A People's History of the United States, Longmans, London.

The dust jacket says Zinn is/was a Professor of Poolitical Science at Boston University and lists an impressive publication record.

 

[REDWAVE]

Zinn's People's History

Excellent work. It tells the real story of U.S. history, not the official story.

 

[ullr]

NICE work? NOT really...

On seeing a youn female clerk reading Zinn's history over the last holiday in my university town, I engaged her in a little chit chat wondering why she'd bother reading it. (I'm a American history scholar myself.)

My first point? Economic determinism. Why bother reading a book based upon false notions of humanity!? The story always comes out wrong!--trying to build a society on such notions failed!--So why absorb more such "interpretation?"

THAT was just my opening salvo over ten minutes covering foru or five typical (far)left points. In effect, I argued, everything she thought was true I argued was false--contradicted by the facts--and I volunteered to share my data and sources with her!

Her response? "Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree." And so rationality and respect for facts on the left-wing side of the debate left the field of argument...

And YOU wonder why the left is dwindling in influence? c'mon.

--Orson