Someone want to explain "Social Justice" to me?

[the_kuntess]

My oh my, what twists and turns this thread has taken.

It's no surprise to me that the thread has taken on more of an aspect of a theological debate mainly because "social justice" is primarily a theological concept although a few philosophers, such as John Rawls briefly mentioned in this thread, have tried to secularize the notion.

I note with some irony that a few posters that are agnostic at best, practicing atheists at worst, have joined the fray. About the only thing that could top that would be for DCL to jump in and start delivering theological sermons. And even those that are true believers can't quite seem to agree as to what constitutes 'social justice.'

That brings us to the point of having to ask exactly how much influence should a secular nation allow theological philosophy to drive policy? Exactly how seriously should we take the Roman Catholic notion of 'social justice'? A notion being put forth by an institution that proscribes gayness and contraception. Or that of Islam, a religion that on top of the Roman Catholic proscriptions, has a laundry list of how slaves should be treated?

Ishmael

Though I disagree social justice per se is linked theological philosophy, there are many practical economically related reasons why society as a whole, via government policy, must contain mechanisms to address social justice. I think social policy is a fascinating area – I have come to understand a little about it through my work in planning. This is why in an earlier post I stated that this area is an incredibly complex one.
As you well know, equality of opportunity is directly linked to many factors. The only time we are ever equal with all members of our species is when we are naked at birth.

Religious proscriptions or traditions should never form part of any government's social policy. I find it bizarre the way I (an atheist)am expected to respect religious tradtions. I often wonder whether I could do some really weird things and when I get called out on my behaviour I will play the 'oh, it's my religious beliefs' card to get outta jail.

There are those on here that prefer no boundaries in their life...and that is completely their choice.

Yes, you're quite correct about the many variations in how people want to live their lives. The problem arises from how we as a society go about accomodating those wishes. Acknowledging the problem is one thing - how we solve it is the challenge.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Negative, as long as that school does not have to compete for it's student base (and thus funding) we will continue to have shit education.

Public services and utilities ain't supposed to compete for nuttin'.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Do you think funding is the problem with the schools?

A pretty big part of it. The other part is local culture.

 

[BotanyBoy]

A pretty big part of it. The other part is local culture.

Care to explain how the more and more money we put into education the shittier and shittier it gets then? What makes you think more money now without a ground up reform in how we run things will do anything?

 

[julybaby04]

A pretty big part of it. The other part is local culture.

I don't agree. I think the public schools are a microcosm of an example of the government in general. The more money there is, the more money to waste.

There is so much money that the public schools get.....quality education should be a given.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Why do people think the schools are so bad? Pretty much every American can read, write and do basic arithmetic. For the most part they seem to have a fair understanding of history. By what measure exactly, are our schools failing? Also our spending isn't really out of scale with most of the rest of the world. Larger than most? Yes. Once you factor in that everything is more expensive in America simply because it's America and well we're not exactly dumping money on this problem.

 

[julybaby04]

Why do people think the schools are so bad? Pretty much every American can read, write and do basic arithmetic. For the most part they seem to have a fair understanding of history. By what measure exactly, are our schools failing? Also our spending isn't really out of scale with most of the rest of the world. Larger than most? Yes. Once you factor in that everything is more expensive in America simply because it's America and well we're not exactly dumping money on this problem.

I think the problems with school depend on where one is located in the nation. There are many around here that cannot read....some just a bit and some not at all. That may not be a problem everywhere, but it is here.

 

[the_kuntess]

Why do people think the schools are so bad? Pretty much every American can read, write and do basic arithmetic. For the most part they seem to have a fair understanding of history. By what measure exactly, are our schools failing? Also our spending isn't really out of scale with most of the rest of the world. Larger than most? Yes. Once you factor in that everything is more expensive in America simply because it's America and well we're not exactly dumping money on this problem.

In comparison with the rest of the world the USA is under perforning in the education field. Check it out here : http://www.better-ed.org/us-lags-behind-reading-math-and-science

 

[Sean Renaud]

Since when does the US give a shit about how we compare to the rest of the world?

 

[the_kuntess]

Since when does the US give a shit about how we compare to the rest of the world?

Well, obviously some of your 'powers that be' do give a shit. The concern is that the US may not keep it's place on top of the economic heap forever if educational standards slip too far. However, some argue that there doesn't appear to be much of a correlation between educational achievement and economic power. The US gets the lion's share of top students from other countries and attracts the best and brightest immigrants.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Assume the truth of this doctrine, which no known human religion ever has taught: There is such thing as reincarnation. And, what's more, human souls can only be reborn as humans. But, that is all that is predestined -- there is no "karmic justice," it's all completely random, you might spend your next life as any human, in any part of the world, of any nation, sex, religion, ethnic group, or social class, you just don't know. (See Veil of Ignorance.)

Whatever optimizes your own chances for a happy and healthy existence in your next life under those circumstances, and in all your lives after that, that is social justice.