So, why is it that Pastor John Hagee gets less attention than Pastor Jeremiah Wright?

[Le Jacquelope]

Do we have a good idea of what these men have said, or do we need to do a run-down of their respective kook rants?

One is a pastor in Barack Obama's church, and one is a pastor that McCain has considered a spiritual guide.

Why is everyone talking about Jeremiah Wright and no one is talking about John Hagee?

 

[sr71plt]

Do we have a good idea of what these men have said, or do we need to do a run-down of their respective kook rants?

One is a pastor in Barack Obama's church, and one is a pastor that McCain has considered a spiritual guide.

Why is everyone talking about Jeremiah Wright and no one is talking about John Hagee?

The media I connect with seems to have decided for me. I haven't avoided hearing about one over the other particuarly.

Did Hagee speak at the National Press Club yesterday and McCain have a press conference about him today? If not, perhaps that's why I heard about Wright yesterday and today and not Hagee.

 

[petes478]

Exactly! This is my question too. Hagee is a right wing nut job who said Hurricane Katrina was an example of god's wrath being visited down upon the sinning people of New orleans. He claims the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon. And McCain seeks out this man's endorsement? Cheap. Then McCain says he doesn't agree with Hagee's views, thinks they're downright reprehensible, but is he willing to say he does not accept Hagee's endorsement? Not on your life! Craven.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Answer to OP question:

Simple: Each side gets 'busted' for hypocracy on the values it is identified with. So "family values" R's get busted for fucking boys in the bathroom, and "peace/love" D's get busted for being in bed with bigoted hate mongering preacher. R's are expected to be "in bed" with bigots, and D's expected to be in bed with boys (or interns), so each side gets a pass when they meet expectations, but nailed when they violate them

 

[sr71plt]

Answer to OP question:

Simple: Each side gets 'busted' for hypocracy on the values it is identified with. So "family values" R's get busted for fucking boys in the bathroom, and "peace/love" D's get busted for being in bed with bigoted hate mongering preacher. R's are expected to be "in bed" with bigots, and D's expected to be in bed with boys (or interns), so each side gets a pass when they meet expectations, but nailed when they violate them

Why are D's expected to be in bed with boys, Roxanne? Every example I can think of has been a Republican. Do you have a list somewhere you can share on the D's who have been identified as doing that? Boys, not men, by the way.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Answer to OP question:

Simple: Each side gets 'busted' for hypocracy on the values it is identified with. So "family values" R's get busted for fucking boys in the bathroom, and "peace/love" D's get busted for being in bed with bigoted hate mongering preacher. R's are expected to be "in bed" with bigots, and D's expected to be in bed with boys (or interns), so each side gets a pass when they meet expectations, but nailed when they violate them

But Obama is distancing himself from Wright.

Has McCain given Hagee the kind of criticism Obama is giving Wright?

And why has the media given Hagee almost NO attention except in the liberal blogs?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Why are D's expected to be in bed with boys, Roxanne? Every example I can think of has been a Republican. Do you have a list somewhere you can share on the D's who have been identified as doing that? Boys, not men, by the way.

NAMBLA, I presume.

 

[DeeZire]

Why is everyone talking about Jeremiah Wright and no one is talking about John Hagee?

Racism. (Shhh. It's a secret.)

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

Do we have a good idea of what these men have said, or do we need to do a run-down of their respective kook rants?

One is a pastor in Barack Obama's church, and one is a pastor that McCain has considered a spiritual guide.

Why is everyone talking about Jeremiah Wright and no one is talking about John Hagee?

Both these men are lunatic racists but the difference is that Obama has shown a lot of respect for Wright, and has attended his church services for twenty years and has called him a spiritual advisor and said similar things about him. As far as I know, McCain has never attended a church service presided over by Hagee and has never had much of anything to do with him. I don't believe McCain ever sought an endorsement from Hagee, but he might have accepted one without knowing much about him.

The two relationships have almost nothing in common.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Both these men are lunatic racists but the difference is that Obama has shown a lot of respect for Wright, and has attended his church services for twenty years and has called him a spiritual advisor and said similar things about him. As far as I know, McCain has never attended a church service presided over by Hagee and has never had much of anything to do with him. I don't believe McCain ever sought an endorsement from Hagee, but he might have accepted one without knowing much about him.

The two relationships have almost nothing in common.

McCain has begged for Hagee's support.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/48397/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5361520710526810473

McCain has said he was pleased to have Hagee's support thereafter.
http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-mccain-on-abcs-this-week/

McCain appeared on stage with Hagee.


Now has Obama asked for Wright's support?

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

McCain has begged for Hagee's support.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/48397/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5361520710526810473

McCain has said he was pleased to have Hagee's support thereafter.
http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-mccain-on-abcs-this-week/

McCain appeared on stage with Hagee.


Now has Obama asked for Wright's support?

I didn't read the first link because it was obviously not to be believed. There are sites on the internet that will lie about anything, and this is one of them. There is nothing the least bit objective about them.

On the second one, McCain said he was pleased to have Hagee's endorsement, but did not mention support.

On the third link, he condemned almost everything that Hagee stands for.

Sometimes you can't help who you are on stage with. Obama has been on a stage with the unrepentant terrorist William Ayers. I would never say Obama supports or agrees with Ayers but he has associated with him.

I don't know if Obama has asked for support from Wright or not. He may have just presumed he was going to get it. Or he may have asked for it in private. The two men are very close, after twenty years, and they are not going to make a production out of their cooperation.

Do you know if McCain has sat and listened to preaching by Hagee for the last twenty years?

 

[Belegon]

The two men are very close, after twenty years, and they are not going to make a production out of their cooperation.

Your information is slightly out of date. Obama had a press conference on this issue.

And since people seem to think that anyone who supports Obama must be afraid of Fox news for some reason, let's use their link.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/29/transcript-obama-press-conference-on-jeremiah-wright/

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I didn't read the first link because it was obviously not to be believed. There are sites on the internet that will lie about anything, and this is one of them. There is nothing the least bit objective about them.

On the second one, McCain said he was pleased to have Hagee's endorsement, but did not mention support.

You're concerned about Obama's associations but not concerned with McCain being caught on video saying he's pleased with Hagee's endorsement?

On the third link, he condemned almost everything that Hagee stands for.

But he admitted to seeking out this guy's endorsement.

Sometimes you can't help who you are on stage with. Obama has been on a stage with the unrepentant terrorist William Ayers. I would never say Obama supports or agrees with Ayers but he has associated with him.

And McCain has been seen on stage openly associating with a guy who wants to see Israel bloweded up good to start the Armageddon and who thinks Hurricane Katrina was a punishment upon America... and?

I don't know if Obama has asked for support from Wright or not. He may have just presumed he was going to get it. Or he may have asked for it in private. The two men are very close, after twenty years, and they are not going to make a production out of their cooperation.

So you're going to assume he did without evidence, and go "ho hum" at McCain's self confession that he sought out Hagee's support?

Do you know if McCain has sat and listened to preaching by Hagee for the last twenty years?

I don't know if he has, but I do know John McCain has bragged about his close ties with Hagee:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=19164
"I know they favor that because of my close relations with them and Pastor John Hagee..."

Now you have 2 choices - believe that, or tell us that McCain has been libeled...

 

[Liar]

Le J, you're missing the obvious.

The media couldn't care less because John McCain is not an important character in this chapter of the story. The media is selling a drama, and they have the perfect one to focus on in Hilary vs Obama and will squeeze it silly until whenever that's settled and one steps down. To toss in another character is to complicate the narrative. And that sells less ads.

 

[S-Des]

You're concerned about Obama's associations but not concerned with McCain being caught on video saying he's pleased with Hagee's endorsement?

OK, let's try this again. One guy sat in Church listening to sermons for 20 years, the other guy never heard a single one. One guy called the preacher his spiritual mentor, the other guy never met the preacher (until his endorsement). One guy gave tens of thousands of dollars to the preachers church, the other guy never gave a dime. One guy was married by the preacher, the other guy never introduced his wife to the preacher. One guy brought his kids to the church, the other guy....well, we've already established he never attended his church. One guy stretched all measure of credulity by saying in 20 years of "rough" sermons, he never heard the specific type of allegations presented on the church's promotional DVD (or noticed the insane and anti-semitic printings in the church bulletin), and the other guy NEVER ATTENDED THE CHURCH!

As for the difference between the pastors....one says we are no better than Al Quaeda, that it's the US of KKK, that blacks who seek the middle class are sell-outs, that we got what we deserved on 9/11, and that the government invented AIDS specifically to wipe out the black community, and the other one said that he was mad at the Catholic church for it's stance on the Jews during WWII and about their various methods of handling problems in the last 100 years, and that he thinks God punishes cities because of gay people (a rather ludicrous pronouncement, but slightly less provable than the AIDS thing).

Obama says he's the candidate to heal the racial divide, yet he spent 20 years in a church that teaches that black people have different brains than white people, should hold themselves to different moral standards, should only swear allegiance to black leaders, and that white people are (with very few exceptions) out to get black people. That's a serious issue that affects something the candidate stands for.

Hagee is a religious whack job. Since you brought up the comparison, would you care to explain what position of his you expect to affect John McCain's handling of the White House? BTW, I have no idea where you got the Israel thing (well, actually I have a suspicion), but I heard Hagee interviewed on Dennis Praeger's show (you know, the Jewish guy), who said that Hagee has been the single bravest preacher in America in defending Israel and the Jewish community over the years.

 

[oggbashan]

Sometimes you can't choose who you share a platform with.

You certainly can't chose who endorses you.

I've shared a platform with Enoch Powell, before and after his "River of Blood Speech". I've shared a platform with several prominent Labour and Conservative politicians of the past and even a couple of Liberals. Does that mean that I endorse everything they say? Or that they endorse everything I say? Of course not.

Some eminent people can be brilliant in their field and completely wacko outside it. If they stick to their area of expertise you will hear sense. If you ask them about something unrelated you have to take whatever comes.

If you ask a football player about football you will probably get reasonable answers. If you ask a football player about the oil industry infrastructure? The answer could be reasonable and logical or totally stupid.

A minister/pastor believes in the unprovable. He believes in a being that cannot be seen or detected by any of our senses. How does that make him a reliable guide to politics?

Og (aka the Reverend Jeanne D'Artois)

 

[S-Des]

Sometimes you can't choose who you share a platform with.

You certainly can't chose who endorses you.

Very well said. I'd like to add that I'm not someone who worries too much about the Pastor Wright stuff. I've grown up with it around me my whole life (literally....the church was right down the street) and it just isn't that big a deal, other than my belief that it holds back people by convincing some that they can't possibly succeed because the odds are stacked against them. Wright's church has done amazingly positive things overall and white people who've attended (I've never been to that particular one) always say they feel very welcomed. That said, Obama could have made this a non-issue (except to extreme partisans) a long time ago. It was his fumbling that has led to this, now he's thrown the pastor under the bus anyway (but after much damage has been done to his reputation and his claim of good decision making). I wouldn't attend Hagee's church any more than I'd stay in Wright's...I don't need some moron screaming about his ridiculous beliefs, I go to church to discuss religion, making a positive impact on the world, and for support when things get tough.

It's just annoying that people who want to defend Obama do it by trying to compare the two...no matter how ridiculous the comparison is. You can defend your guy without coming up with someone else to attack....really, it is possible. Obama is a good guy with some views I don't share. I don't stay up nights worrying that he'll get elected and try to get even with all the white people.

On a really interesting note, the person who invited Wright to speak at the convention that caused such a ruckus is a fervent Hillary Clinton supporter. Coincidence? Maybe.....

Note #2, a conspiracy theory was voiced on a radio show today by a Democrat. He wondered if Wright wasn't intentionally trying to sabotage Obama. There were several reasons floated, ranging from anger about not being supported, to a fear that a black president would diminish the power of people who preach his particular brand of distrust.

 

[Guest]

Last night Newt Gingrich was on Jon Stewart.

When pressed, Gingrich actually said that he felt the difference in this situation was "media bias" against Obama.

Gingrich.

Don't have time to find the link now but I'm certain it's on the Daily Show site.

 

[DesertPirate]

Last night Newt Gingrich was on Jon Stewart.

When pressed, Gingrich actually said that he felt the difference in this situation was "media bias" against Obama.

Gingrich.

Don't have time to find the link now but I'm certain it's on the Daily Show site.

Gee and it was less than two months ago that a SNL skit showed the media bias "for" Obama.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Why are D's expected to be in bed with boys, Roxanne? Every example I can think of has been a Republican. Do you have a list somewhere you can share on the D's who have been identified as doing that? Boys, not men, by the way.

So sorry, SR, I was using shorthand and was slightly drunkish. Old saying about an extremely safe incumbent: "The only way they'll get his seat is if he's caught with a dead girl or a live boy." My point was that D's who don't thump their chests about "morality" and "family values" aren't crucified if they are dicovered committing sexual peccadilloes, while R's who don't loudly and explicitly renounce such appeals are assumed to be running on that platform, and so are guilty of hypocracy if they are caught in the same little sin that a D would not get much heat for.

~~~

To Jacq's complaints that Obama has "distanced" himself from Wright - not gonna happen, my friend. This is politics, not reality. And even in reality, he sat in the guy's church for 20 years. When he was trying to establish "blackness" cred he probably welcomed the rants; now he must apeal to a national audience, not an black Illinois senate district constituency, and it's biting him in the fanny. He who lives by the ranter politically, dies by the ranter.

 

[DesertPirate]

When you take the whole thing in context:

McCain - bad judgement accepting an endorsement from someone you don't know very well and it bites you on the ass when he turns out to be a flake. Bandaid size bite.

Obama - Specified how close he has been to Wright for almost 20 years. Then "discovers" what a bigoted, vindictive, spiteful, flake he is. Of course everyone believes that Obama never heard these rants
Major wound with much trauma.
Add in the relationship with Ayers the terrorist and you have a major question about judgement. Valid question about a Presidential candidate.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

OK, let's try this again. One guy sat in Church listening to sermons for 20 years, the other guy never heard a single one. One guy called the preacher his spiritual mentor, the other guy never met the preacher (until his endorsement). One guy gave tens of thousands of dollars to the preachers church, the other guy never gave a dime. One guy was married by the preacher, the other guy never introduced his wife to the preacher. One guy brought his kids to the church, the other guy....well, we've already established he never attended his church. One guy stretched all measure of credulity by saying in 20 years of "rough" sermons, he never heard the specific type of allegations presented on the church's promotional DVD (or noticed the insane and anti-semitic printings in the church bulletin), and the other guy NEVER ATTENDED THE CHURCH!

Supposedly he never attended the church, but (since you're using caps) MCCAIN DID SEEK THAT WHACKJOB'S ENDORSEMENT!

As for the difference between the pastors....one says we are no better than Al Quaeda, that it's the US of KKK, that blacks who seek the middle class are sell-outs, that we got what we deserved on 9/11, and that the government invented AIDS specifically to wipe out the black community, and the other one said that he was mad at the Catholic church for it's stance on the Jews during WWII and about their various methods of handling problems in the last 100 years, and that he thinks God punishes cities because of gay people (a rather ludicrous pronouncement, but slightly less provable than the AIDS thing).

You're intentionally ignoring some things Hagee has done.

For instance, Hagee called the Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon".

"It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God's chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day... Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of antisemitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.... it rises from the judgment of God upon his rebellious chosen people."

Guess who said that.

For crying out loud, the dude wants all of the Jewish people of the world to go to Israel and be in one place when war comes - so they can all be wiped out and cause the Armageddon.

Obama says he's the candidate to heal the racial divide, yet he spent 20 years in a church that teaches that black people have different brains than white people, should hold themselves to different moral standards, should only swear allegiance to black leaders, and that white people are (with very few exceptions) out to get black people. That's a serious issue that affects something the candidate stands for.

And McCain actively sought the support of an equally nasty whackjob. Something Obama has not done.

Hagee is a religious whack job. Since you brought up the comparison, would you care to explain what position of his you expect to affect John McCain's handling of the White House?

I doubt Hagee will affect McCain any less than Wright will affect Obama.

BTW, I have no idea where you got the Israel thing (well, actually I have a suspicion), but I heard Hagee interviewed on Dennis Praeger's show (you know, the Jewish guy), who said that Hagee has been the single bravest preacher in America in defending Israel and the Jewish community over the years.

What about Rabbi Eric Yoffie?

 

[DesertPirate]

For instance, Hagee called the Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon".

Since most people on the left bash the Catholic Church as a dailey ritual why would this be any different?

We get used to it and ignore most of it.
If you consider the sources of most of the anti-religious rants around the mainstream media they are pretty easy to ignore

 

[S-Des]

Supposedly he never attended the church,

I absolutely love this. How is it that he supposedly never attended the church? McCain has lived in Arizona (and Washington) for a few decades now. The church is in Texas. You have no proof that he ever attended, has never met (or even heard of) Hagee, or knew anything about him (other than his 20,000 parishioners), yet you say supposedly. Very interesting.

For instance, Hagee called the Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon".

I'm just curious....does this actually offend you? Cause I'm a Christian and I think it's just harmless stupidity. The Catholic league got upset and still doesn't like him (which is their right), but exactly how is him insulting them equivalent to the things Wright said about America? None of the candidates are running for President of the Catholic church (or any others that I'm aware of).

For crying out loud, the dude wants all of the Jewish people of the world to go to Israel and be in one place when war comes - so they can all be wiped out and cause the Armageddon.

Well, that's quite the interesting interpretation.

I doubt Hagee will affect McCain any less than Wright will affect Obama.

Well, your doubts don't interest me. Obama's claim that he's the great uniter does. The same guy who tells us he's going to bring people together, spent two decades in a separatist church (it's in their bi-laws), and never expressed dissent until the polls started hurting him this week. People have the right to ask why. If you'd like to ask why McCain never met or talked to Hagee until his endorsement and has never given him a dime of support....you're welcome to. {shrug}

What about Rabbi Eric Yoffie?

Christian preachers. I've never heard a rabbi referred to as a preacher before, so thought that was pretty self-evident. It's not my quote, it's Praeger's. He's known Hagee for decades. If you feel you know or understand Hagee better than him, I encourage you to call his show and let him know he's wrong.

 

[DeeZire]

The Catholic league got upset and still doesn't like him (which is their right), but exactly how is him insulting them equivalent to the things Wright said about America?

Some of the things Wright said about America are true.

(your words from an earlier post)
"says we are no better than Al Quaeda, that it's the US of KKK, that blacks who seek the middle class are sell-outs, that we got what we deserved on 9/11, and that the government invented AIDS specifically to wipe out the black community,"

Personally, I don't buy the sell-out line, or the AIDS conspiracy (although there was a conspiracy to ignore aids for quite a long time) but everything else you mentioned that he said rings true.

The idea that Wright is somehow attacking America is absurd. He's attacking the status quo when it's detrimental to blacks. He's looking out for his people when no one else will. The guy obviously cares more about his country than most people. Unfortunately, he's a little over-the-top, but no more so than anyone else on the extreme right or left.

It's too bad that, in politics, telling it like it is can cause such a backlash.