Size, vanity, confidence and gender inequality

[fenghuang]

I've seen criticism aimed at men for worrying about their penis size on more than one occasion. But very rarely do you see criticism of women for getting breast enlargements.

I think for women it's often seen as an issue of confidence and self esteem. After all, why shouldn't they want to look more attractive? (Granted, there is the issue of media preassure, and if you sit in the feminist camp, that's probably the fault of men.)

Why, when men want a bigger dick is it seen as something less worthy? Why are men not allowed to want to do something to imporve their own self esteem when it comes to size. I'm not suggesting that there is any truth in "a bigger dick makes you more attractive to women adn a better lover" but if it makes you feel better, and therfore perform better, is that not a good thing? And why is it worse for a man to consider his own aesthetics than it is for a woman?

Discuss....
(of just flame me for asking a stupid, if legitimate question.)

 

[SweetErika]

I think a much better comparison to penis enlargement surgery would be women who have labiaplasty (for aesthetic or confidence reasons, not due to real physical discomfort caused by very large labia), anal bleaching or vaginal "rejuvenation" because they think having a tighter pussy will make them a better lover.

And if we're going with one of those procedures, there's certainly plenty of criticism to go around.

However, even breast enlargement and things like liposuction often come with a lot of flack from society at large - plenty of people make jokes and voice their disgust regarding cosmetic procedures, whether they're performed on men or women.

 

[Cattypuss]

What Erika said.

 

[Erryn_Silver]

Women also get flack for wanting to get breast reductions too.

I heard how many arguements against me wanting a reduction. That I should be happy with what I want, that the person I'm with likes em batter that size. But in the end, you should be able to feel comfortable with how you look.

 

[Eilan]

It's a false analogy, as Erika pointed out, but I'll bite.

I've nursed four babies. My boobs are covered with faded stretch marks and they're a saggy B-cup on a good day. I'm happy with myself, so I don't need to seek validation from others. Someone who considered me to be nothing more than a set of boobs or a vagina with legs wouldn't be worth my time, anyway.

I've been vocal about cock threads ever since I joined this site, and I don't see that changing. It's very unsexy when a man's self-esteem is wrapped up in the length, girth, curvature, etc of his (perfectly average and normal) penis. If women started boob size or labia/clit/vag size threads several times a week, then I'd absolutely voice my frustration in those threads as well. I do find it interesting that, given the body-image issues that a lot of women have, we don't see very many of those types of threads on this board. We have the occasional breast reduction thread, but that, IMO, is more of a medical issue than an aesthetic one.

You have more to offer women than your genitals. When you start to worry about about the size of a flaccid cock, don't you think you've taken the obsession a bit too far? Focus on what you can change about yourself, rather obsessing over what you can't.

 

[rockhard18]

agreed

I'm going to agree with a lot of what's been said already - more important than size/look is confidence and experience, for both men and women. I think that the media (I blame certain porn films, you know the ones) for putting this image in our heads that women have to be 6 feet tall, blonde, 120 pounds with DD breasts, and men need to be hulking apes with foot long dicks.
To your point, I think that women receive a lot of criticism for changing their bodies, but (as women are with most things) they tend to be far more covert and sinister about it. Where men will say loud and proud "Hey motherfucker, you've got a tiny dick!" and laugh, women will get together in groups and talk behind each other's backs about the surgery.
But that's just my opinion and mad rantings. Hey, what do I know?!

 

[easyluckyfree]

i think an essential difference between males' dissatisfaction with penis size and females' dissatisfaction with breasts/labia/whatever is that there is nothing one can do about the size of one's penis. sure, there are extreme surgical options, but as far as i know they are not hugely popular or successful. it's my understanding that one would have to have a medical reason for needing such surgery. on the other hand, cosmetic surgery is a way for women to feel better about themselves. vaginal rejuvenation and breast augmentation are commonplace. though there are risks, there are SO many doctors nowadays who are experienced and reputable. do the research, and all is well for the most part. women wear makeup, dye our hair, wear spanx, etc. i don't see plastic surgery as being any different. getting bigger boobs is just a superficial thing that makes some of us happy and helps us gain confidence. we have the power to make this change. for men, unfortunately, changes to penis size cannot be realistically attained for most. i think this is why we are more tolerant of the females when it comes to lack of confidence.

 

[bronzeage]

If there was a penis enlargement procedure that was half as successful as breast augmentation, there would be same day surgery centers at the mall.

 

[fenghuang]

I think a much better comparison to penis enlargement surgery would be women who have labiaplasty ... anal bleaching or vaginal "rejuvenation" because they think having a tighter pussy will make them a better lover...

I disagree about the comparisons. If it were just about which physical atributes actually make you a better lover then that could well be true, but I think it can be more about how you feel about your body. If you feel self conscious, you are less likely to be relaxed with others.

... But in the end, you should be able to feel comfortable with how you look.

In your opinion, would that apply to phalloplasty too?

... I'm happy with myself, so I don't need to seek validation from others. Someone who considered me to be nothing more than a set of boobs or a vagina with legs wouldn't be worth my time, anyway.

... If women started boob size or labia/clit/vag size threads several times a week, then I'd absolutely voice my frustration in those threads as well. I do find it interesting that, given the body-image issues that a lot of women have, we don't see very many of those types of threads on this board ...

You have more to offer women than your genitals. When you start to worry about about the size of a flaccid cock, don't you think you've taken the obsession a bit too far? Focus on what you can change about yourself, rather obsessing over what you can't.

If you're completely happy with yourself, then I believe you're a very rare and very lucky person. But one doesn't have to have a negative perception from other people to have a negative perception of oneself.
Re: frequency of penis / breast size threads. Could that be symptomatic of how many men have genuine and deep concerns about this, or how much information / support there is for women and how little there is for men?
Re: obsession over flacid cock size. I suspect you're refering to my other thread and I wonder whether you are confusing obsession with curiosity and misunderstood the question.
And just because someone asks a question about making explosives, doesn't mean they have any nefarious intentions. Equally, browsing through a realtor / estate agent's proprties for mansions doesn't mean you think your appartment is less than you need.

... more important than size/look is confidence and experience, for both men and women. I think that the media (I blame certain porn films, you know the ones) for putting this image in our heads ...

... men will say loud and proud "Hey motherfucker, you've got a tiny dick!" ...

If size/look has a significant impact on confidence, would that not validate a choice to change it?
When I cited media influence, I was thinking more of things like Cosmopolitan or Sex In The City, rather than porn. I think the former are far more devisive because they are viewed as mainstream.
Re : "hey motherfucker ..." I have rarely heard any such coments, even in testosterone flooded sports changing rooms. Quite the contrary, from my own observations, I would say it is far more likely is that men will carry their towel in front of their crotches or wrap it round thier waists, which suggests to me that they are uncomfortable with other's perception of thier body.

 

[fuckmeat]

I don't think men's insecurity about cock size and women's insecurities about breast size compare and here's why: Your cock is not fully erect at all times and stuck to your ribcage for all to see and judge.

Women who get breast surgery (whether augmenting or reducing what mother nature gave them) are not doing so in order to be better lovers, they're doing it because (often) they have received comments about their assets on a daily basis since puberty, from friends, family, lovers and total strangers. Men can only be assessed by those they get naked and intimate with, women have no such luxury. Women have insecurities about their breasts in the same way they worry about their weight and other attributes of external beauty. It's tied to their self esteem in the same way being naturally beautiful or unattractive would be. For women (who are not porn stars), breast surgery is usually about making them feel good about themselves, not about pleasing some guy they may not have even met yet.

Yes, there are women who get often comically extreme enlargements specifically to attract men but I pity those creatures because they need external validation from the opposite sex to an unhealthy degree. They're the ones who also have peroxide hair, 6 inch talons, faces full of botox, skeletal bodies and resemble Hiroshima survivors. That's not empowering. It's the opposite of feminism. It's really rather tragic.

I have always had small tits. I was probably the last girl in my class at school to start wearing a bra. I got teased a lot for it and even now, as an adult, it still happens. I was sat in a bar recently with my brother and some friends, just wearing a loose t shirt and jeans. A guy nearby (who was drunk enough to be talking too loudly) looked me up and down, turned to his mates and said, 'shame there's no tits on it.' Was I heartbroken? Was I fuck. I'm actually glad that I can repel assholes just by not wearing a padded bra, it saves me no end of hassle.

I actually find it interesting that men are so Pavlovian about women. If I doll myself up, hike up my tits in a gel filled bra, put some heeled boots on, suddenly I'm hot. I can walk down the same street at the same time of night in jeans and a T and no guy will look twice. I think it's sad the way a lot of men are ruled by stuff like this. They pick a girl cos she looks hot and just expect everything else to fall into place. It doesn't.

Anway, I'm digressing now, so I'll shut up.

 

[Erryn_Silver]

In your opinion, would that apply to phalloplasty too?

Sure. If it makes you happy go for it. Though I don't recommend any changes that are big enough or risky enough to put your life/health at risk.

 

[NippleMuncher]

Re: frequency of penis / breast size threads. Could that be symptomatic of how many men have genuine and deep concerns about this, or how much information / support there is for women and how little there is for men?
Re: obsession over flacid cock size.

There are no gender constraints when it comes to poor self image, we all have our peccadilloes. More often than not, surgical procedures are used to "treat" the psychological problem because it's easier to change your body image by going under the knife than it is to deal with personal issues.

There is a big difference between reconstructive surgeries and the typical elective aesthetic alteration.

 

[littlebabyclit]

I actually find it interesting that men are so Pavlovian about women. If I doll myself up, hike up my tits in a gel filled bra, put some heeled boots on, suddenly I'm hot. I can walk down the same street at the same time of night in jeans and a T and no guy will look twice. I think it's sad the way a lot of men are ruled by stuff like this. They pick a girl cos she looks hot and just expect everything else to fall into place. It doesn't.

Anway, I'm digressing now, so I'll shut up.

*applauds*
Oh God, I love that. SO true.

 

[bronzeage]

...
I actually find it interesting that men are so Pavlovian about women. If I doll myself up, hike up my tits in a gel filled bra, put some heeled boots on, suddenly I'm hot. I can walk down the same street at the same time of night in jeans and a T and no guy will look twice. I think it's sad the way a lot of men are ruled by stuff like this. They pick a girl cos she looks hot and just expect everything else to fall into place. It doesn't.

Anway, I'm digressing now, so I'll shut up.

It is not Pavlov, it is Darwin.

The normal male brain is pre-programed to notice that kind of thing. You will get noticed in the Tshirt and jeans, but more attention in the gel bra.

It shouldn't be a surprise you find men attracted to you, when you are trying to be attractive.

 

[fuckmeat]

It is not Pavlov, it is Darwin.

The normal male brain is pre-programed to notice that kind of thing. You will get noticed in the Tshirt and jeans, but more attention in the gel bra.

It shouldn't be a surprise you find men attracted to you, when you are trying to be attractive.

I do know that, guys just seem to shed aeons of evolution when they see a hot woman. They seem to go for looks and then just see what happens. If things develop, great. If not it's another notch on the bedpost. No matter how hot they are, girls don't generally aspire to be notches and anecdotes.

Guys are weird, hence why my partner is female I guess.

 

[ivantheterrible]

sorry if it pisses people off:
a lot of women, not all, do consider a larger dick more appealing, except of course if it so big it ain't going into anything except a horse. ask a woman if she wants a 5/8ths inch cock or a 10 incher.

 

[Noira]

sorry if it pisses people off:
a lot of women, not all, do consider a larger dick more appealing, except of course if it so big it ain't going into anything except a horse. ask a woman if she wants a 5/8ths inch cock or a 10 incher.

I think a more realistic comparision would be a 3 incher versus a 10 incher, since there are guys with functional ten inchers and there... aren't... guys with functional 5/8th inchers, honestly, I think most women have bigger clits than that.

And given the choice, I would pick the man who was the least of an asshole, with the mental traits that turn me on because I could care less about his cock, that's not what turns me on EVER... it's all about the miiiind. Which is a good thing because I'm not attractive.



Women receive constant pressure about their body types, and it's basically expected of them to be good looking, it's a fallback on women being there to cook, clean, and look pretty, in my opinion. But then, if you think women get less flak about wanting to change their bodies, look at all the tabloids always constantly talking about the celebs, who's gained weight, who got a boob job... never ever see a cover talking about the celeb who got a penis job.

And women are just more quiet about that sort of thing. Let me tell you, all my female coworkers talk about people behind their backs. Men are just more upfront, which is probably why men get more harrassment about it.

 

[ivantheterrible]

hell men have pressure too. no matter what people say , a man is self conscious about a big ol beer belly that makes it hard for him to see his dick without a mirror. don't let some people fool you. we do think about stuff like this.

yes, there is a such a thing as a 5/8ths inch dick. it has been recorded.

what about the men who wear a t shirt trying to hide a gut, and jeans and most women would never look at him BUT if he's wearing an armani and getting out of a nice car? we live in the same world you women do.

i have to admit, yes, i am attracted to looks too. my last "girlfriend" i tried to make it work. we got to know each other over the net. personality wise she is a great human being. but when it came to sex, i had to lie and say i wasn't interested. better that than hurt her feelings about her looks. i didn't want to hurt her. but that's life.

i know how women talk. your speaking to a man who has 6 aunts and was raised around them. they thought i wasn't listening or too young to care, but women can be more vicious than a man.

 

[Kojote]

I experienced the 'lenght issue' often in my life.
Whenever men live together or see each other naked on a more or less regular base (in the military and in school after sports i.e.) the size is a real social matter.
I've seen guys who where by no means attractive but got the 'cool dude' label only because the had some kind of muteted cucumber down there. And attractive guys which got the looser label for being less well endowed.

Size does matter. If not for a woman than for your fellow 'bros'...
And it can have a lasting impact on personality for a young man to only have a rather small grower. Especially since the opther guys wont see it fully grown.
(Speaking for the military the may see it this way and it may change their mind then, but thats another story...)

 

[fenghuang]

... guys ... seem to go for looks and then just see what happens. If things develop, great ... Guys are weird ...

Why is it weird as opposed to different. Does that not imply that guys are weird because they are guys. Surely that's just down to your frame of reference?
Could it not as easily be said that women are weird because they might be more interested in finding out if a man can discuss Kant or Proust rather than whether they're able to satisfy her in bed and produce strong, healthy children? (Speaking Darwinianly.) (I think I just made that word up )

 

[Norma_Stits]

sooooooooooooo

if size isnt an issue I guess I should expect to see 3 inch pencil thick dildos in the sex shops

yee hah


PS I am talking tongue firmly within my own cheek !

 

[Mac98]

sooooooooooooo

if size isnt an issue I guess I should expect to see 3 inch pencil thick dildos in the sex shops

yee hah


PS I am talking tongue firmly within my own cheek !

I don't think pencil thin cocks actually exist... Thin is one thing, but that's abusively thin!

As for the thread is concerned, breast augmentation is viewed as either a beautiful thing or a terrible thing... Penis growth is seen as a ridiculous thing. Imo, the reason is this: Some men don't mind natural breasts whereas some prefer fake ones. Women, on the other hand, will mostly admit they prefer a bigger penis to a smaller one.

This being said, yes, the "ability" comes into play, in the sense that a smaller penis can feel much better than a bigger one if the person knows how to use it, you know?

And besides, I'd be more aware or self-conscious of my endurance rather than my size... Cuz a 9 inch cock that can't last more than a minute is kinda' useless, don't you think?

 

[AnnieMosity]

It's not the meat, it's the motion

 

[impulsively]

I've seen criticism aimed at men for worrying about their penis size on more than one occasion. But very rarely do you see criticism of women for getting breast enlargements.

I think for women it's often seen as an issue of confidence and self esteem. After all, why shouldn't they want to look more attractive? (Granted, there is the issue of media preassure, and if you sit in the feminist camp, that's probably the fault of men.)

Why, when men want a bigger dick is it seen as something less worthy? Why are men not allowed to want to do something to imporve their own self esteem when it comes to size. I'm not suggesting that there is any truth in "a bigger dick makes you more attractive to women adn a better lover" but if it makes you feel better, and therfore perform better, is that not a good thing? And why is it worse for a man to consider his own aesthetics than it is for a woman?

Discuss....
(of just flame me for asking a stupid, if legitimate question.)

Ok --- I have read everyone’s reply and must say for the most part the men’s and some of the woman's replies have completely baffled me.

I am a man, and while I am not huge in either length or girth I can say I am completely satisfied with what God/Mother Nature has given me.

Guys if you think your size has anything to do with yourself esteem then go find a closet somewhere lock yourself in it and masturbate in the dark while imagining how big you want to be. For crying out loud Your dick has two ok three purposes;

1. To piss with
2. To make babies
3. To satisfy your partner

That being said learn to use what you have and quite whining, or go get the surgery and don’t tell anyone so you won’t get embarrassed. Yes, there is a basic surgery you can get that will increase your length by 1-3 inches.

Woman get their breasts altered for a wide range of reasons, those that do it because they need to increase their self esteem are doing it for the wrong reasons, and dump whomever they are with and go out and find the right person.

When you find the right person you don’t need to change, you don’t want to change, because they love you for who you are.

Anyways that’s my 2cents

 

[fenghuang]

Woman get their breasts altered for a wide range of reasons, those that do it because they need to increase their self esteem are doing it for the wrong reasons ...

What are the right reasons for breast augmentation? AFAIK there is no medical NEED for it?