Should this woman have had a gun

[Todd]

http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/aug/27/gedan082701.htm

Or was she in the wrong?

I won't post the boortz commentary cause soon as that is there the balance is tipped against reason from all sides. So just the news page.

 

[Thumper]

So what's the point?

There is no right or wrong.

It is a personal choice. I choose not to have them in my house.

No one is trying to take guns away from law abiding people. I do think it is rather paranoid to feel the need to have them for home protection unless you live in a high crime area, the chances of this ever happening to you are extremely remote. How remote? We would all agree that police officers come into contact with many more violent people than we ever do and the vast majority of them never have to use their weapons.

This is one example where the gun actually protected the person who owned it, but to me it is the exception that proves the rule. It's notoriety arises from it's rarity as an occurence.

I'll bet you can find 10 accidental, or maybe even not accidental shootings of family members or friends to every story like this...

If you want a gun then have one...but if your kid gets it and uses it you should pay the same price he/she does...

 

[Myrrdin]

On the night of August 20th 1999 three persons, Fred Barras 16, Brendan Fearon 30 and Darren Bark 34, travelled by car from Newark to Emneth Hungate for the purpose of robbing Bleak House, an isolated farm property owned and solely occupied by Mr Anthony Martin. They had received information in a local pub that there were valuables on the property. They got past Mr Martin’s three dogs which he kept in an outbuilding and advanced on the dwelling house. Fearon and Barras effected entry by forcing a ground floor window. Mr Martin heard noises and saw lights. He left his first floor bedroom armed with a loaded five-shot pump action shotgun. While still at some distance from the intruders he was caught in a torch beam. He fired a total of three shots, one in the general direction of the torch beam and two more into ‘total darkness’. Fearon and Barras both sustained gunshot wounds but were able to retreat from the property through the same window. Bark who was driving the car apparently made off in it without waiting for his accomplices. Fearon managed to get away from the farm but Barras crawled away into some undergrowth where he was later found by the police, having died from his injuries.

Martin was sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and a concurrent ten years for wounding [Fearon] with intent.

 

[Thumper]

That is so wrong..

That is where the justice system is out of whack.

 

[Myrrdin]

The father of the burglar shot dead by farmer Tony Martin has been jailed for 14 years for armed robbery. Six weeks after watching Martin sent down for life for the murder of his son, Fred Barras Snr tied up a woman security guard and held a gun to her head during a £400,000 raid on a clothing warehouse.

Fred Jnr was 16 when he died. When he broke into Martin’s farmhouse he had already appeared in court 18 times and had 29 criminal convictions to his name, including theft, fraud and assaulting the police. He had served two months in a young offenders’ institution. He was on bail at the time of the burglary and there is evidence he had been working as a fence.


The family are currently seeking legal aid to sue Tony Martin for criminal compensation over the death of Fred Jnr.



http://www.tonymartinsupportgroup.org/

 

[Doulton]

Reading this story (the one Todd linked us to) really pissed me off. My initial reaction was to say just what Thumper said: For every person who is saved in self defence by owning a gun, many more are accidentally killed by friends and relatives. I don't really have anything new to add it just got me so angry I felt I had to say something. Piss fuck shit. There, now I feel better
I don't think any private citizen should be allowed to own a gun full stop.

 

[Myrrdin]

So why did a jury convict him ?

Apparently even the Police were surprised at the verdict.. The Police had had to push for a conviction or face been sued by the Barras's, for not prosecuting.

But...................
He had had one earlier break in. After that there were complaints, that Mr Martin was firing his shotgun in the general direction of trespassers on the farm. This combined with his outspoken views on potential intruders expressed at public meetings persuaded the local police to confiscate his firearms and his firearm licence.
He subsequently "acquired" a five shot shotgun. (Which had been banned since Hungerford) There were caches of cartridges at random locations on the premises.

These points were used to create doubt as to actions.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Reading this story (the one Todd linked us to) really pissed me off.

And your reaction betrays your emotional state - since it is flat out wrong.

My initial reaction was to say just what Thumper said: For every person who is saved in self defence by owning a gun, many more are accidentally killed by friends and relatives.

That study (by the CDC IIRC) - a three to one ratio IIRC, and studies based on it were flawed and debunked by peer review a long time ago. People love repeating it though, as if they repeat it enough it will be true - or more likely, people will believe it to be true. I suggest you read Kleck, a widely respected criminologist (who is anti-gun BTW) whose non-biased studies do not support that conclusion at all.

I don't think any private citizen should be allowed to own a gun full stop.

And government authorities should be the only ones allowed to posess firearms? Governments have murdered many more innocent citizens than citizens have, and orders of magnitude more than citizens have killed accidentally. Reference: Death By Government - Rummel

Also, IIRC law enforcement officers accidently shoot the wrong person three times more often than ordinary citizens. IIRC Kleck is the reference for that - but I am not sure.

STG

 

[shadowsource]

Re: So why did a jury convict him ?

Apparently even the Police were surprised at the verdict.. The Police had had to push for a conviction or face been sued by the Barras's, for not prosecuting.

But...................
He had had one earlier break in. After that there were complaints, that Mr Martin was firing his shotgun in the general direction of trespassers on the farm. This combined with his outspoken views on potential intruders expressed at public meetings persuaded the local police to confiscate his firearms and his firearm licence.
He subsequently "acquired" a five shot shotgun. (Which had been banned since Hungerford) There were caches of cartridges at random locations on the premises.

These points were used to create doubt as to actions.

That does change the picture, considerably. You're rolling this one out like a mystery serial.

 

[Problem Child]

Thank you Shy Tall Guy, for presenting some facts instead of emotion and guesses.

 

[miles]

There is no place in this forum for facts. Rhetoric is so much more entertaining.

 

[Unclebill]

Re: Re: So why did a jury convict him ?

Originally posted by shadowsource
That does change the picture, considerably. You're rolling this one out like a mystery serial.

So this negates his right to defend his life and property? I'm impressed by your reasoning.

 

[SGTBIGDOG420]

Reading this story (the one Todd linked us to) really pissed me off.


I don't think any private citizen should be allowed to own a gun full stop.

I dont know where to start with this one, I will just say when they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.


I have to ask if you have ever been the victim of a violent crime? why do you people always get so mad at others defending themselves. What would you do if someone broke into your house? offer him a drink and tell him where the good shit is hidden?


gun control means being able to hit your target........

 

[Problem Child]

from todd's article:

She retrieved the loaded .38-caliber revolver , purchased at a friend’s insistence, from its hiding place beneath her bed. Barefoot and clad in her nightgown, the retired medical assistant made her way to the back of her house and braced her elbow on a countertop to steady her shaking hands. She heard the storm door open and within an instant, a man was bursting through the back door, ripping it off its molding. Full of fear, but prepared to act, Jean held her position as the intruder fell to the floor. When he at last stood up, Jean fired. Four shots rang out from her revolver, 3 of which hit their target. The intruder fled. Jean reloaded and dialed 9-1-1.

The intruder, Anthony Peralez, bleeding from two wounds to his arm and one to his abdomen made his way to his parked automobile. As he raced from the scene, he hit two parked cars and eventually came to a stop in the parking lot of a car dealership, where he was found by police and arrested.



The old lady blew it. If she'd used a .357 mag or .45 auto with hollow points the intruder would not have fled.

 

[Silverlily]

The intruder had no business breaking into her home. I'm sure his intentions were not to welcome her to the neighborhood. He got what he deserved.


And yes, I own a gun. Yes, my children have been taught gun safety. Yes, I would not hesitate to shoot an intruder. Compromise my kids and I will NOT ask questions. Don't like it, stay away from my house.

 

[thumbs2_ca]

Kitten Eyes

I think I am in love..lol