Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

[~Dream~]

I think that most girls and some women are pretty confused about the relationship between Men and women.
They feel the 'Natural' pull of their "Submission',but have been taught to be too worried about equality,I just think ,in my opinion,that feminism is a big mistake and is causing a lot of unhappy and under-developed girls.And frustrated Men,too,of course.I just feel that we might all be a little more at peace if we recognized the biological reality of our natural impulses..

I have lots of girlfriends who arent in touch with their submission and sexuality,but I can see it in almost every one of them,and I feel so bad for them that they feel that they can't be fulfilled.
Anyway,if what I just expressed worries you,just know that I,myself have been to therapists before who talked alot about it with me and they dont seem to think that "submission" is damaging or sick at all.I have been told instead,that I am just an unusually caring woman who is deeply submissive and loving,and was very sexual at an early age which is not uncommon at all.

Just in my honest opinion,were the same women who have the fears,the doubts,to instead venture out,to explore their curiousity,without shame or fear,then I can from my own experience ,tell them that it would be well worth the adventure.My "submissiveness' is such a part of me that shutting it out,or trying to ignore it would be like taking away the very air which I breathe.

When one longs for the Truth,to be true to their nature,no matter how society may judge them,this is the noblest of pursuits.I know how you desire to be set free,to serve a Supreme Master/Mistress,to become entwined in the dark mystery of His/her soul,to become his/her prized possession.I know how you crave to learn more about being a total slave to your Dom/mes desires..
And I predict ,that over time,step by step as you are ready,you Will find the fulfillment which you seek...I know that I did..and still am.....

Any thoughts???

 

[Guest]

 

[monster666]

Never.

Any thoughts???

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

Personally, I don't think feminism has anything to do with submission.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Men and women will never be equal. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruit, but will never be the same fruit.

Viva la difference!

I am feminist, but also feminine. And submissive. None of those things are mutually exclusive.

_______________________
Thank-you for your views foxy sweety and I just wanted to say ,my Master "loves Your avy hehe.. also may I ask you a question?You truly do not think that being a 'feminist" gets in the way of Your submissiveness at all? Arent feminsts taught or led to believe that they are equal to men on every level? ' or please correct me if I am wrong because as a sub,I feel after the TPE that I do not feel "subservient'to my Master in a "bad sense" at all ,however He IS to be "over me".

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

Dream,

I can't speak for all feminists.

But being proud of being female and knowing that I can kick ass intellectually and professionally and relate to men (and women) on that level have nothing to do with the way I conduct myself with Him in our own space.

____________________________
ok sweety ..not meaning to offend,sorry...I can live with that...thanks again for your honesty..

 

[Guest]

 

[MsWorthy]

I think that most girls and some women are pretty confused about the relationship between Men and women.
They feel the 'Natural' pull of their "Submission',but have been taught to be too worried about equality,I just think ,in my opinion,that feminism is a big mistake and is causing a lot of unhappy and under-developed girls.And frustrated Men,too,of course.I just feel that we might all be a little more at peace if we recognized the biological reality of our natural impulses..

. . .

Any thoughts???

Dream, hon, would you mind expounding on this opinion a bit more. It sounds as though you are saying it is a "natural", "biological" impulse for women to submit to men.

Arent feminsts taught or led to believe that they are equal to men on every level? ' or please correct me if I am wrong because as a sub,I feel after the TPE that I do not feel "subservient'to my Master in a "bad sense" at all ,however He IS to be "over me"

Woman are equal to men, they needn't be taught or led to believe it. D/S isn't about who deserves to be "over" anyone. It is about being pulled by your individual desires/needs to fill a certain role/aspect of a relationship. It isn't about gender or who should be over/better than/more priviledged than anyone else.

A dom/me is not more anything than a sub. A dom/me is served because a sub needs to serve, not because she/he deserves it more (both needs are being met simultaneously. These two are equal in value and importance, they simply like the power distributed a bit differently in their relationships than others do).

If D/S is biological then it is biological because it is hard-wired into different people in different ways (just as some people are hard-wired to be hetero, lesbian, or gay. None of these are better than, or superior to, or "over" the others, they are simply different), not because men are biologically programmed to be "over" women.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

A dom/me is not more anything than a sub. A dom/me is served because a sub needs to serve, not because she/he deserves it more (both needs are being met simultaneously. These two are equal in value and importance, they simply like the power distributed a bit differently in their relationships than others do).

Oh yes MsWorthy. That eqaulity makes the circle complete for those two participants, too, in my opinion.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

Dream, hon, would you mind expounding on this opinion a bit more. It sounds as though you are saying it is a "natural", "biological" impulse for women to submit to men.



Woman are equal to men, they needn't be taught or led to believe it. D/S isn't about who deserves to be "over" anyone. It is about being pulled by your individual desires/needs to fill a certain role/aspect of a relationship. It isn't about gender or who should be over/better than/more priviledged than anyone else.

A dom/me is not more anything than a sub. A dom/me is served because a sub needs to serve, not because she/he deserves it more (both needs are being met simultaneously. These two are equal in value and importance, they simply like the power distributed a bit differently in their relationships than others do).

If D/S is biological then it is biological because it is hard-wired into different people in different ways (just as some people are hard-wired to be hetero, lesbian, or gay. None of these are better than, or superior to, or "over" the others, they are simply different), not because men are biologically programmed to be "over" women.

Hear! hear!

Eb

 

[SexyChele]

I would have to say that I really agree with foxinsox on this one. Men and women are different, that is true, and many studies support this. However, I don't think all women feel a natural "pull" to be submissive.

Then again, there is also the difference between sexual submission and submission in all areas of life. Am I a feminist? Truthfully, I really don't know. I subscribe to some beliefs, not to others. But here are some things that crossed my mind when I read this.

Some cultures and religions teach and reward girls who are submissive to men in all things. And, no, I'm not saying these cultures or religions are wrong. It's what is taught, and what these girls and woman consider normal. Therefore, it is right for them.

I was an only child. I also had a father who realized that his daughter might not have some one always there to "take care" of her. He more than any other person taught me to be independent and self-sufficient, to depend on no one. He taught me how to cook and sew as well as how to change the oil in my car. Now, I did become a tomboy and this angered him. He didn't want his daughter to lose her femininity, and there was a period of about 6 months when I was forbidden to wear jeans or pants.

In the past 12 years since his death, I've had to step in and take care of my mother. (Who was raised to be dependent on people) I've been there to help manage her finances, advise her on major purchases, have a huge impact on all major decisions in her life, etc. And that will be true until either she or I pass away. On top of this, I am also in charge of my own life and all that affects it.

One would expect, with my background, that I would be more of a dominant, however, sexually I am submissive. So, despite being taught to be what most would consider a "feminist", I most fulfilled within a relationship with a man if I am serving.

No, I haven't tried to figure all of this out. I simply accept it. It was enough to discover that I am the way I am without going into deep analysis about. Everyone is wired differently. Some girls/women are raised to be submissive when they do not feel that "pull". Others want to be submissive and have no way to realize that. Still others combine factors of both. To me, as long as some one is secure and comfortable with who they are at any given point in their life, they are far ahead of the game!

 

[glamorilla]

i could never submit to someone who isn't at least as strong as i am.

gets frustrating.

 

[Guest]

 

[Ricckk]

As a male dominant, I also consider myself a feminist.

I believe that males and females are equal in their differences. I also want my submissive to be strong and confident and I do everything in my power to help her to be more self-reliant and powerful.

This only effects her submission to me by making it more meaningful for both of us.

 

[Ebonyfire]

As a male dominant, I also consider myself a feminist.

I believe that males and females are equal in their differences. I also want my submissive to be strong and confident and I do everything in my power to help her to be more self-reliant and powerful.

This only effects her submission to me by making it more meaningful for both of us.

Hear, hear!

Another male dominant on the board who speaks his mind. Welcum.

Eb

 

[Little Girl]

I was an only child. I also had a father who realized that his daughter might not have some one always there to "take care" of her. He more than any other person taught me to be independent and self-sufficient, to depend on no one. He taught me how to cook and sew as well as how to change the oil in my car. Now, I did become a tomboy and this angered him. He didn't want his daughter to lose her femininity, and there was a period of about 6 months when I was forbidden to wear jeans or pants.

One would expect, with my background, that I would be more of a dominant, however, sexually I am submissive. So, despite being taught to be what most would consider a "feminist", I most fulfilled within a relationship with a man if I am serving.

No, I haven't tried to figure all of this out. I simply accept it. It was enough to discover that I am the way I am without going into deep analysis about. Everyone is wired differently. Some girls/women are raised to be submissive when they do not feel that "pull". Others want to be submissive and have no way to realize that. Still others combine factors of both. To me, as long as some one is secure and comfortable with who they are at any given point in their life, they are far ahead of the game! [/B]

I have to agree with you on this one... I was raised to be the perfect son and have spent a lifetime making sure that I could rely on myself if no one else. Not only did most people expect me to be more of a dominant, I actually spent 6 years having submissive women persue me (much to my surprise). I am happy being submissive and will not consider giving my submission to a man who is not to be trusted with it and is not at least as independent and strong as I am. It has taken me a long time to get here, but yes I am very secure and comfortable with who I am and it has made all the difference in my life.

 

[Verypowerful]

Re: Re: Should I submit or Not?-a perspective

Woman are equal to men, they needn't be taught or led to believe it. D/S isn't about who deserves to be "over" anyone. It is about being pulled by your individual desires/needs to fill a certain role/aspect of a relationship. It isn't about gender or who should be over/better than/more priviledged than anyone else.

A dom/me is not more anything than a sub. A dom/me is served because a sub needs to serve, not because she/he deserves it more (both needs are being met simultaneously. These two are equal in value and importance, they simply like the power distributed a bit differently in their relationships than others do).

If D/S is biological then it is biological because it is hard-wired into different people in different ways (just as some people are hard-wired to be hetero, lesbian, or gay. None of these are better than, or superior to, or "over" the others, they are simply different), not because men are biologically programmed to be "over" women.

Very well stated MsWorthy.
D/s has got nothing to do with gender apart from the way all people choose, live or act according to their sexual orientation. Feminism does not exclude D/s, and should not be mixed into, the D/s discussion in this way according to my opinion.

VP

 

[~Dream~]

just asking a question

and i did get my answer ,ty MsW for it also and I just think IMHO if a sub is a feminist in the aspect that she places herself in any way "above' her Dom ,there's likely to be trouble..just a thought..doesnt go for just feminists tho,anyone ,even I...

 

[Little Girl]

I think submission is a desire you have or don' t have. I have many female friends who have submissive qualities and some who do not. I don't believe I would want to raise my daughters to feel that they should be submissive. I have taken great pains to ensure they are both free thinkers, independent and loved no mater what. If they choose to be submissive and are comfortable and happy with themselves then that is wonderful for them, but I don't know that I agree that it is natural for women to be submissive to men. My oldest daughter is very dominant and my son-in-law is very laid back and lets her run the show.... but they are happy with the way their relationship is so I'm happy for them.

 

[cymbidia]

Dream, please define what you mean by the following words and phrases, if you will. They're confusing as all get-out to me and seem to be just words you tossed into your post cuz, well, maybe cuz they looked good or something. I'm sure that can't be true, though. I'm sure you must know what they mean. After all, you used them in a public post. You wouldn't use words and phrases that you didn't understand in such a childish manner, would you?

After you define these words and phrases, i'll try to answer your question. Wait. Was there a question in this post? If so, will you please state it clearly and then i'll try to answer it. For some reason, everything after the first paragraph seems kinda, well, kinda like big time self-aggrandizement.

Thank you.

'Natural' pull of their "Submission'
<snip>
feminism
<snip>
under-developed girls
<snip>
biological reality of our natural impulses
<snip>

 

[~Dream~]

Little Girl..

I think submission is a desire you have or don' t have. I have many female friends who have submissive qualities and some who do not. I don't believe I would want to raise my daughters to feel that they should be submissive. I have taken great pains to ensure they are both free thinkers, independent and loved no mater what. If they choose to be submissive and are comfortable and happy with themselves then that is wonderful for them, but I don't know that I agree that it is natural for women to be submissive to men. My oldest daughter is very dominant and my son-in-law is very laid back and lets her run the show.... but they are happy with the way their relationship is so I'm happy for them.

__________________________
thank you kindly for your post and I hear what you are saying,I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel,INHO,that women are always seeking to be fulfilled,yearning to serve in one capacity or another.. does that automatically make them "Submissive"? perhaps not but then again there is no disgrace gfor a woman to be "submissive either ,for as she pleases her Dom/mes she is also getting the "reward" of being pleased in return..it's a win/win situation


**Cym ,dear Cym:what shall I do or say that ever pleases you>? undoubtably Nothing ever will and you know what ? that's ok I STILL respect ya cause Hell thats just the kinda WOMAN I really am.. my post speaks for itself dear,funny that I'm getting all these "replies" to it if noone knows what the hell I'm talking about,isnt it?oops ,did I just hear lightning? ha ha ha I guess once again Dream is just as much entitled at stating her? my opinion as anyone else at this Forum is.. do have a nice evening Cym..((hugggs)))

 

[morninggirl5]

Re: Little Girl..

__________________________
thank you kindly for your post and I hear what you are saying,I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel,INHO,that women are always seeking to be fulfilled,yearning to serve in one capacity or another.. does that automatically make them "Submissive"? perhaps not but then again there is no disgrace gfor a woman to be "submissive either ,for as she pleases her Dom/mes she is also getting the "reward" of being pleased in return..it's a win/win situation

Dream, everything you've said in this thread implies that you believe that ALL women are submissive. I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Every woman doesn't feel the way you do, every woman doesn't see the world through your eyes. It's naive and quite egocentric to believe that they do.

It seems to me that you are trying to justify your decisions by rationalizing them into "i can't control it, it's part of being a woman". Why are you doing that, do you think?

**Cym ,dear Cym:what shall I do or say that ever pleases you>? undoubtably Nothing ever will and you know what ? that's ok I STILL respect ya cause Hell thats just the kinda WOMAN I really am.. my post speaks for itself dear,funny that I'm getting all these "replies" to it if noone knows what the hell I'm talking about,isnt it?oops ,did I just hear lightning? ha ha ha I guess once again Dream is just as much entitled at stating her? my opinion as anyone else at this Forum is.. do have a nice evening Cym..((hugggs)))

Respect is earned, dream. Cymbidia has earned nothing but respect here through her demeanor here. Perhaps if you'd look at her questions and truly think about the answers instead of reacting to your perception of criticism, you would begin to grow in your search for knowledge.