Should I be patient or seek counseling? Seasonal depression...uninterested husband.

[wave74]

Hello, I have been lurking here for awhile. I've been doing a great deal of reading and see many posts related to, but not specifically addressing our problem (however if I have missed them please feel free to direct me to them!). Eilan's recent disinterested partners post was most relevant, but still didn't answer or *solve* my problem [perhaps only time will tell, but I need to vent regardless].

First some background...I am a 31 year old female, been married 3.5 years (together for about 8), husband is 35 (well he'll be 36 next week and I'll be 32 a few weeks after...). Other than the normal pressures of work (we both have successful careers) and family, generally neither of us has any "issues" or extenuating cirumstances that I can pinpoint (e.g., neither is on medication, has a negative sexual past or experience, etc. etc. etc.) No kids...yet...we're in the discussion phase--now it's a definite yes, just a matter of when (but relatively soon...that's a whole another, but yes, somewhat related, story).

Indirectly through the process of the "to be or not to be" discussion of having kids and things related to that, we have discovered that our sex life had become routine (my take) and boring (his). Hell, at one point we both realized that to conceive something would likely have to change... then I decided I wasn't ready yet...yada yada...but regardless things needed to change...so, I went about trying to fix it, and like many of you, somehow ended up at the Lit (primarily looking for erotic stories while horny one night...) and then found the forums. Well, needless to say I've learned a ton, am rediscovering my sensuality and sexuality, and have great ideas on how to spice things up. Now we're humping like bunnies and will live happily ever after, right?

Of course not! *yet?* After several ideas and attempts met with not quite the desired reaction, I attempted direct communication and learned that he is just not in the mood right now, and that he attributes this to seasonal depression. "It's not you, it's me," he says...[of course I'm taking it personally and had asked if he was still attracted to me] and that he should grow out of it soon, no big deal. *This was about 3 months ago.* I said okay, told him I had ideas and was trying to listen to him about being more spontaneous and breaking out of our routine, but would take it slow and respect his wishes. Meanwhile I lurk here, read stories, wanting desparately to change things...anxious to try new things and experiment, and not to mention horny as hell [he knows I'm visiting but still can't believe I'm this worked up] but have tried to be patient.

During this time, we had some pleasant encounters when the opportunity would arise, but most often he either rejects me completely, tells me he feels pressured, tired, or I can tell he is just not that into it. When we have interacted though, I have "rediscovered" a few key things: the importance of intimacy rather than just "having sex" [he agrees with this one], that there is more pleasure in the journey than the release [major!], and how much I do enjoy seeing his reactions and pleasure [a major turn on, as it seems to be for so many here]. One of the issues we discussed was that sex had become about my orgasms and making sure I came and when I thought about it, it really had, though not conciously. So in addition to spicing things up in other ways, I've taken all this to heart and made sure to focus on his pleasure as well. I'm also working on feeling sexy and confident, and hoping this would be reflected in my attitude...and how I express myself...and that ultimately in turn he would be turned on by all of this and reciprocate simply by showing an interest in me again and sex in general. [Well, actually I would love for him to just take me with a passionate fury and screw me senseless but think we have to get past this first... and of course that's another tangent altogether ]

We haven't gone without sex, just maybe once a week or every two weeks or so [and honestly we had fallen into about a once a week routine for several years now], and it has just always been with a caveat or reluctance of some sort on his part, or initiated in the middle of the night {which is very sexy in itself but is a different type of sex altogether--for me at least--sort of like an out of body experience, very hot, but quite different from other types of sexual interaction or making love}. While some of the initial discussions of the routine and boring sex happened last summer and fall, the seasonal depression "revelation" has been recent. I've seen other posters mention that they've had "spells" of different lengths, but not neccessarily for the same reason. I don't know if I should continue to try and be patient, or seek counseling. When I try and talk to him about it, he gets angry, and doesn't see the point "if the problem is just about sex." He also told me that he figured this was normal occurrence in most relationships, and as you get older, and that he was okay with that [this from a man who is worried about kids harming our relationship]. I told him I wasn't willing to accept that. That discussion led to talk of divorce...the first time we have ever mentioned it [or even crossed my mind, he's the one who said it]...a bad night to say the least. I honestly wanted him to talk to a counseler about it, because I want him to be happy, and for this to not negatively affect our relationship [especially if this will be a yearly occurrence]. Now that I think about it, this has happened over the years, but it manifested itself more in his attitude about his career and work [have tried in the past to get him to talk or act more on that...without success]. He refuses, doesn't see the seasonal depression as a big issue, again, if sex is the only "side effect" or problem.

Perhaps this is premature or too naive or simplistic--but we're well into spring, have resumed outdoor activties (which we both love and do together--gardening, hiking, canoeing, etc., and will soon hit the beach) and I don't see any signs of this letting up {though he did actually initiate sex after one hiking trip a few weekends ago}. I'm very frustrated and starting to resent him, not to mention the effect on my self esteem. and, he seems to have plenty of testosterone and energy to put towards video games...but not me.

I've tried patience, but I think the straw that broke the camel's back was this past Saturday evening...after dinner with friends, he was relaxing on the bed...normally we'll chat after an evening out while we change into more comfortable attire , I clean my face, etc., then we head for the couch for a movie and bottle of wine. I'm a night owl, he's not, so most nights he passes out before the movie is over or right after. Okay, I can deal with that...I understand that waiting to have sex at 2 a.m. may not be your cup of tea, many nights I'm not in the mood that late either. So, in yet another attempt to break up the routine, rather than change I waltzed in naked and laid down next to him, planning to iniate something else. Can you believe it--he actually asked me why I was naked!!!! I just gave him *the look* and raised my eyebrows, then he proceeds to tell me he wasn't interested in watching a movie, and when I said ok, was he was tired and ready for bed he said no, but then jumps up and leaves the room, no explanation, nothing. Needless to say I was furious [which quickly progressed to sadness and I had to fight to keep back tears...that came later]. This is just one example of many lately. Not the desired reaction at all--not that I expect wanton lust in every such situation, but something!

Please help? I'd be happy to share more details or specifics, or clarify if needed. Has anyone experienced this before? Have suggestions?

 

[sunandshadow]

Have you tried totally ignoring him and not mentioning sex at all for two weeks and seeing what he does?

 

[wicked woman]

To really simplify your situation I think two things are called for:

1. Get him to a medical doctor to try to get some help for his depression.
2. Get yourself some counselling to help you deal with this.


I can see why you weren't pleased with his attitude about if sex is the only side effect....but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it's his depression talking not him. Get some medical attention for his depression first...then hopefully you'll be able to separate what's the effect of the depression and what's not.

As an aside...keep using birth control until you get this resolved.

Good luck.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Ditto what wicked woman said.

Light therapy often works with seasonal depression. I think they have light boxes you can buy for home, and then he would sit in front of it for a half hour or hour a day (Google SAD, seasonal affective disorder, I think). It might be that simple if you can get your husband to talk to his doctor about it.

 

[SweetErika]

Hello, I have been lurking here for awhile. I've been doing a great deal of reading and see many posts related to, but not specifically addressing our problem (however if I have missed them please feel free to direct me to them!).

Welcome to posting, Wave! It looks like you've done a great job getting a feel for the place and finding resources. I can't think of specific threads on this topic, but you might gain some insight, ideas, and support in quoll's Depression, Anxiety, Panic Attacks, etc. thread. Anyway, I hope you find what you're looking for, and think you'll be a wonderful addition to our community!

During this time, we had some pleasant encounters when the opportunity would arise, but most often he either rejects me completely, tells me he feels pressured, tired, or I can tell he is just not that into it. When we have interacted though, I have "rediscovered" a few key things: the importance of intimacy rather than just "having sex" [he agrees with this one], that there is more pleasure in the journey than the release [major!], and how much I do enjoy seeing his reactions and pleasure [a major turn on, as it seems to be for so many here].

How's the intimacy outside the bedroom? Are you both happy with the amount of affection, communication, flirting, touching, etc.?

I'm assuming you've relayed how much the rejection hurts. How has he responded? I ask because we've been there, and it took a long time to really understand how it was affecting us and change our behavior. Eventually we figured out replacing, "I'm too tired/whatever," with something like, "Tonight's not good, but could we plan for tomorrow/this weekend?" reduced the disappointment and eliminated the pain and other negative results. We often compromise/make a counteroffer of another intimate activity (e.g. assisted masturbation, cuddling, oral, or even just talking or spending time together) when sex isn't appealing for whatever reason.

We haven't gone without sex, just maybe once a week or every two weeks or so [and honestly we had fallen into about a once a week routine for several years now], and it has just always been with a caveat or reluctance of some sort on his part, or initiated in the middle of the night {which is very sexy in itself but is a different type of sex altogether--for me at least--sort of like an out of body experience, very hot, but quite different from other types of sexual interaction or making love}.

Just to clarify, is once a week a problem for you? Would it be an issue if it was quality, including him being enthusiastic about it?

I'm a little confused about the middle of the night thing, too. Does he wake you up for this? How often does it happen? He's initiating and excited about it then? If so, why do you think there's such a difference between the earlier and later encounters?

While some of the initial discussions of the routine and boring sex happened last summer and fall, the seasonal depression "revelation" has been recent. I don't know if I should continue to try and be patient, or seek counseling. When I try and talk to him about it, he gets angry, and doesn't see the point "if the problem is just about sex."

Hmm. Does he show other symptoms of depression, and/or is it impacting other areas of his life?

I started noticing seasonal depression in my teens. Some years it's been pretty bad (though for me, it doesn't come close to persistent clinical depression), others I don't have or notice it at all. With a doctor's approval, I've always treated it with St. John's Wort and behavioral changes, but clearly that's not the right approach for everyone.

I think seeing a professional is necessary for anyone whose life and/or relationships are impacted though. When you think about it, his issue isn't any different than if you had a physical problem that made sex painful. Wouldn't he insist you look into it and treatment options for your own good and that of the marriage? If nothing else, wouldn't YOU see someone because it was hurting someone you love?

Perhaps this is premature or too naive or simplistic--but we're well into spring, have resumed outdoor activties (which we both love and do together--gardening, hiking, canoeing, etc., and will soon hit the beach) and I don't see any signs of this letting up {though he did actually initiate sex after one hiking trip a few weekends ago}. I'm very frustrated and starting to resent him, not to mention the effect on my self esteem. and, he seems to have plenty of testosterone and energy to put towards video games...but not me.

The lack of improvement with spring could be a number of things, so I'd be hesitant to make the above conclusion.

Did you suggest counseling just for him, or couples therapy? If he won't try couples counseling, would you be willing to go by yourself?

 

[eudaemonia]

Great advice above.

As one of the SAD afflicted let me add this: it's possible that just because it's Spring doesn't mean he'll automatically snap out of it. Sometimes it's June before I do. But nothing that a little light therapy won't cure. Definitely check that out.

My hunch is that it's not simply a matter of SAD in your case, thus my thumbs up for the previously offered advice.

 

[sweetkupcak]

thoughts from someone once in 'dem shoes

hi Wave74
Above anything that anyone can suggest... counselling is the best. However, if he isn't too keen on the 'sex' and feels it's a 'stage' then getting him to counselling could be just as hard. In real... let's face it how many guys agree to willingly go to a 'regular' dr. let alone a dr to talk about their feelings?!!
Met my husband in 96, married in 99, in 2001 we had issues.... and part of this was having a child we planned on having... part of it had to do with an inner desire of his. but i remember the late nights that i would go upstairs thinking ok bedtime 11pm... but i would go up there with promises he would be up soon... eventually i spoke my mind about that and well well he started to come to bed at 11pm ... only to my mid-night awakens did i find he was getting out of bed during the night to 'search for his inner desire'.
I'm not pearching that everyone has an inner 'demon' to be gay/lesbian - lol - my husband is very straight... i'm the one we figured out that wasn't so straight! lol
Communication is key in any relationship and i am sure everyone will agree with me on that.
If you can't get your point across when you speak to him... try emailing him... or writing your points to him in a lovely letter.
Remember though... positive negitives... don't send the letter/msg with a lot negitive words... will only make him glance over it.
You could also insert a fantasy you have recently acquired and wanted to share with him.
Good luck and hope to hear a positive response from you
your friend in TO
"Sweetkupcak"

 

[Ezzy]

You can look for counseling or not, but it appears to me that the bigger issue than the SAD is the kids issue.

If you are looking for more in the way of sex, and he is feeling afraid of you becoming pregnant (by accident), he will create distance to reduce the chance of it happening.
You can use things like taking your pill in his presence, as a part of your morning routine, but at the end of the day the issue of having or not having kids is what is going to be of relevance here.

If he is feeling strong enough about not wanting kids to talk of divorce, it may be that the hoped for family is unlikely to occur with him and you as a couple. I get the impression that he feels they will change your relationship beyond the areas he feels comfortable with, and therefore he is standing back from it.

Did he have a higher sex drive before you were married? Or is this a continuation of what was normal before marriage, when all the other options are done, the thing that you will come back to is communication, communication, and communication!

This is going to be the one of the hardest issues to deal with, in most relationships kids come along as a surprise due to lack of care, the carefully concidered pregnancy is the rarer method (sweeping generalization here) for the most part! What to do after you miss a period or two is a whole different issue, than what to do if one partner in the relationship does not want kids for what ever reason.

Good luck! As others have said treat the SAD then find out where the grounding of the kids issue is.

Are you willing to go on with the relationship and no kids or does the chance to have kids with this man overwhelm the relationship risks of having kids against his desire to stay in his safe zone.

At the end of the day, are you going to kill the relationship with regrets in 20 years when you did not have kids, or discover in two years he quits the relationship to run away from the kids and back to his safe zone.

 

[wave74]

Thanks! Many points to ponder.

Ok...wow...thanks everyone! Many points to ponder. First lesson, I see the thread was moved from HT to the Cafe, wasn't sure which was more appropriate. I'll try to respond to a few of the direct questions, and come back if I miss any.

Ezzy and others, first regarding children, let me clarify there is no disinterest on his part. He is now ready, I'm not *quite yet.* I haven't been on the pill now for about a year (partially b/c I get melasma from it--spots on my face, and partially b/c we were about ready to get pregnant, and I wanted it out of my system), so while we're not trying, we're not doing anything to stop it other than him pulling out. We're both comfortable with that {and perhaps with the thought that fate would make the decision for us}. I've overanalyzed it to death, then recently changed jobs, want to go on a big vacation first, so needed a few more months {told you that was another story}.

However...I think you are all right, it's all one big ball of wax {funny I used that same example trying to explain to him why I was now wanting to revel in my sexuality...and so horny...and how it was related...} and while the depression is certainly an issue, so is the kids factor. He was the one telling our friends a few months ago how he wanted the night of conception to be romantic. I don't have any illusions about that personally, but certainly wouldn't want it to just be a biological act, or even to stem from this period where we're clearly not on the same page emotionally, so the situation has increased my reluctance and exacerbated the desire to wait longer. In a more childish moment this weekend I thought about telling him I was going back on the pill and to just let me know when he'd changed his mind about sex, then we could talk again about everything else.

So... to answer sunandshadow...ignoring him has been my tactic since this weekend, though I feel it's immature , it gets the point across. I did this the first time I was outright rejected a few months ago, which prompted some communication after I cooled down *a few days later*. He asked today if I hated him--replied that I was still mad, but more sad than anything, but that it didn't mean that I loved him any less. That was the extent of the discussion (he called me to discuss something else at work). But no, I haven't touched him, and have just communicated the bare minimum to get through a normal day.

Which leads to SweetErika's question regarding affection outside the bedroom--we are normally very affectionate, fondle each other, etc. even if it never leads to sex (in private, I'm not fond of PDA--was always the third wheel in college so I just find it annoying and that it makes others uncomfortable). However, this too had declined on his part (the more sexual overtures, not normal hugging). Recently he had started showing an interest again occasionally (he's a breast man so they get the most attention ).

I told him how good that makes me feel, and sweetkupak, yes, I also wrote him a letter--with highlights and reflections of romantic, sexy, and lustful encounters over the years, and then tried to also articulate some of what I was feeling on paper {all positive...}, of how I wanted to change things and reintroduce intimacy back into our lives and make things exciting again and ultimately strengthen our bond. I slipped it in his briefcase and emailed him at work to let him know it was there one Friday afternoon. He was touched by it and said he would keep it to remind him how much I love him, but didn't jump my bones or anything when I got home that evening, (perhaps I was expecting too much, but I didn't get mad or anything, just gave him space and time to ponder). A side note, he knows I'm interested in and doesn't have a problem with me reading erotica, and I wrote him a more risque story too, but this is definitely not the time to share that--he even mentioned that he was afraid that's what it was.

SweetErika--the middle of the night thing has happened for the last few years. Often though during the "depression" period it has been the only sex we had, other than the few other encounters I mentioned, but still infrequent. He initiates, though he says I have, and yes is excited about it. I wake up and he is usually fondling me and of course I can't help but be aroused and typically it sparks all sorts of interesting fantasies in my head at least. He said he thinks he's more energetic after a few hours of sleep so his body takes over. lol. I don't mind it, and as I said it is exciting, but different, almost more of a meeting a need thing than an intimate encounter so I don't want it to be the only way we ever have sex, if that makes sense.

As for frequency, once a week is not an issue per say, and I agree about quality over quantity (and I'm having more of an issue with that than the quantity at this point). However, the frustration is exacerbated by the fact that my sex drive is in overdrive. I had hoped that this, and all of the other things would kick in his too, if the seasonal depression weren't an issue. He has always laughed that when we have sex it makes me more horny and I want more... but it seems like that used to excite him

Sexdrive before marriage. We had a long distance relationship the first 3.5 yrs while I was in grad school. So when we saw each other (about twice a month, 3-4 day weekends) both our sex drives were strong, but the situation promoted that as well. {We were much more adventurous early on too, and I was trying to rekindle that spark and try new things. Hell we still watch porn together but even that had become routine--isn't that sad??} Then we moved to the same town but did not move in together until we were married. The first year we were "dating" again, getting used to living in the same town, and new jobs, etc. I do remember him commenting during this time that we had sex more at his place--I stayed over at his place more on weekends, and he would stay over with me more during the normal work week. So we were settling into a routine before we got married I guess. Then we were busy with wedding and honeymoon plans, then getting used to living together, buying a house, etc. and are just now "settling" in the last two years or so (the second house).

Thank you all for the information, sharing your experiences and advice about SAD in particular. I have never experienced depression, so don't understand it. He was taking St. John's Wort when we met, but now that I think about it I'm not sure if he has the last several years. I tried to talk to him about it early on (just trying to understand, as it was a part of him) and he didn't want to go there so I didn't push it. The only time I ever pushed it was when it appeared to affect his job or self worth {he would get depressed about his peers having PhD's and he *just* has a Master's and how that might limit him, I tried to encourage him to go back to school and do it, he wouldn't...etc. etc.}. It was never couched in terms of SAD, or obviously affected our relationship or sex life, until this year. A friend who suffers from depression encouraged me to suggest he seek counseling--that prompted one of the major blow outs I mentioned. As for therapy...I would be willing to go by myself, and will talk to him about it. I figured suggesting couples therapy would be less threatening than him going just for the depression. We talked about it before, but this was right after we moved in together, we had what we later resolved to be a normal getting used to marriage living together period that all couples go through {sharing space, merging needs & wants with bills and a shared income, and decorating tastes (lol), relinquishing former independence, etc.}.

Would love to hear other thoughts and will keep you posted. Thanks so much again, you are all very helpful, kind, and welcoming.

 

[JPaul2]

Ok...wow...thanks everyone! Many points to ponder. First lesson, I see the thread was moved from HT to the Cafe, wasn't sure which was more appropriate. I'll try to respond to a few of the direct questions, and come back if I miss any.

Ezzy and others, first regarding children, let me clarify there is no disinterest on his part. He is now ready, I'm not *quite yet.* I haven't been on the pill now for about a year (partially b/c I get melasma from it--spots on my face, and partially b/c we were about ready to get pregnant, and I wanted it out of my system), so while we're not trying, we're not doing anything to stop it other than him pulling out. We're both comfortable with that {and perhaps with the thought that fate would make the decision for us}. I've overanalyzed it to death, then recently changed jobs, want to go on a big vacation first, so needed a few more months {told you that was another story}.

However...I think you are all right, it's all one big ball of wax {funny I used that same example trying to explain to him why I was now wanting to revel in my sexuality...and so horny...and how it was related...} and while the depression is certainly an issue, so is the kids factor. He was the one telling our friends a few months ago how he wanted the night of conception to be romantic. I don't have any illusions about that personally, but certainly wouldn't want it to just be a biological act, or even to stem from this period where we're clearly not on the same page emotionally, so the situation has increased my reluctance and exacerbated the desire to wait longer. In a more childish moment this weekend I thought about telling him I was going back on the pill and to just let me know when he'd changed his mind about sex, then we could talk again about everything else.

So... to answer sunandshadow...ignoring him has been my tactic since this weekend, though I feel it's immature , it gets the point across. I did this the first time I was outright rejected a few months ago, which prompted some communication after I cooled down *a few days later*. He asked today if I hated him--replied that I was still mad, but more sad than anything, but that it didn't mean that I loved him any less. That was the extent of the discussion (he called me to discuss something else at work). But no, I haven't touched him, and have just communicated the bare minimum to get through a normal day.

Which leads to SweetErika's question regarding affection outside the bedroom--we are normally very affectionate, fondle each other, etc. even if it never leads to sex (in private, I'm not fond of PDA--was always the third wheel in college so I just find it annoying and that it makes others uncomfortable). However, this too had declined on his part (the more sexual overtures, not normal hugging). Recently he had started showing an interest again occasionally (he's a breast man so they get the most attention ).

I told him how good that makes me feel, and sweetkupak, yes, I also wrote him a letter--with highlights and reflections of romantic, sexy, and lustful encounters over the years, and then tried to also articulate some of what I was feeling on paper {all positive...}, of how I wanted to change things and reintroduce intimacy back into our lives and make things exciting again and ultimately strengthen our bond. I slipped it in his briefcase and emailed him at work to let him know it was there one Friday afternoon. He was touched by it and said he would keep it to remind him how much I love him, but didn't jump my bones or anything when I got home that evening, (perhaps I was expecting too much, but I didn't get mad or anything, just gave him space and time to ponder). A side note, he knows I'm interested in and doesn't have a problem with me reading erotica, and I wrote him a more risque story too, but this is definitely not the time to share that--he even mentioned that he was afraid that's what it was.

SweetErika--the middle of the night thing has happened for the last few years. Often though during the "depression" period it has been the only sex we had, other than the few other encounters I mentioned, but still infrequent. He initiates, though he says I have, and yes is excited about it. I wake up and he is usually fondling me and of course I can't help but be aroused and typically it sparks all sorts of interesting fantasies in my head at least. He said he thinks he's more energetic after a few hours of sleep so his body takes over. lol. I don't mind it, and as I said it is exciting, but different, almost more of a meeting a need thing than an intimate encounter so I don't want it to be the only way we ever have sex, if that makes sense.

As for frequency, once a week is not an issue per say, and I agree about quality over quantity (and I'm having more of an issue with that than the quantity at this point). However, the frustration is exacerbated by the fact that my sex drive is in overdrive. I had hoped that this, and all of the other things would kick in his too, if the seasonal depression weren't an issue. He has always laughed that when we have sex it makes me more horny and I want more... but it seems like that used to excite him

Sexdrive before marriage. We had a long distance relationship the first 3.5 yrs while I was in grad school. So when we saw each other (about twice a month, 3-4 day weekends) both our sex drives were strong, but the situation promoted that as well. {We were much more adventurous early on too, and I was trying to rekindle that spark and try new things. Hell we still watch porn together but even that had become routine--isn't that sad??} Then we moved to the same town but did not move in together until we were married. The first year we were "dating" again, getting used to living in the same town, and new jobs, etc. I do remember him commenting during this time that we had sex more at his place--I stayed over at his place more on weekends, and he would stay over with me more during the normal work week. So we were settling into a routine before we got married I guess. Then we were busy with wedding and honeymoon plans, then getting used to living together, buying a house, etc. and are just now "settling" in the last two years or so (the second house).

Thank you all for the information, sharing your experiences and advice about SAD in particular. I have never experienced depression, so don't understand it. He was taking St. John's Wort when we met, but now that I think about it I'm not sure if he has the last several years. I tried to talk to him about it early on (just trying to understand, as it was a part of him) and he didn't want to go there so I didn't push it. The only time I ever pushed it was when it appeared to affect his job or self worth {he would get depressed about his peers having PhD's and he *just* has a Master's and how that might limit him, I tried to encourage him to go back to school and do it, he wouldn't...etc. etc.}. It was never couched in terms of SAD, or obviously affected our relationship or sex life, until this year. A friend who suffers from depression encouraged me to suggest he seek counseling--that prompted one of the major blow outs I mentioned. As for therapy...I would be willing to go by myself, and will talk to him about it. I figured suggesting couples therapy would be less threatening than him going just for the depression. We talked about it before, but this was right after we moved in together, we had what we later resolved to be a normal getting used to marriage living together period that all couples go through {sharing space, merging needs & wants with bills and a shared income, and decorating tastes (lol), relinquishing former independence, etc.}.

Would love to hear other thoughts and will keep you posted. Thanks so much again, you are all very helpful, kind, and welcoming.

Wave, I'm a 59 year old male celebrating my 32nd year of marriage to a magnificent 52 year old woman.

I married her when she was 19 and we are, in every way, one. I cannot imagine what my life would have been had she not been it and remaining in this plain of life without her is not an option nor is it possible. She is my life...

I'm afraid I've started this post without regard to the time necessary, and I need to go to work. However, before I leave, I would like to tell you my wife and I have experienced exactly what you and your husband appear to be going through, and perhaps I can relate to you what happened during our marital journey.

It's quite possibly, my dear, not what you want to hear...

 

[wave74]

please don't leave me hanging jpaul...

 

[JPaul2]

please don't leave me hanging jpaul...

I'm sorry, Wave. Real life has such a mundane way of interfering with our Lit lives, and those obstacles haven't yet been totally removed. However, the weekend is upon us and I should be able to devote more time to fantasies.

Certainly don't be hanging. I am no one of importance, and this is the internet. This is the world of role playing and dreaming -- especially true of Lit.

I will tell you a story of a part of my life; I offer no panacea. What has worked for my wife and me, in all likelihood, is not the answer you seek.

I must be off, my students await...

 

[Ezzy]

Ok JPaul2. So we know the tease approach does work in building some interest, but we expect only one more tease before we get the real post you know!

 

[wave74]

Thanks Ezzy...yes, it was just a figure of speech, I was just curious to hear what you had to say! I didn't expect you to provide the solution.

I completely agree and understand about having the time to post and real life...in fact, per one conversation my husband would prefer for me not to visit here as it riles me up...well maybe not the forums so much as the stories...though he's not really sure what I'm reading and writing exactly.

 

[Guest]

 

[JPaul2]

OK, let’s set the scenario. I’m 59 years old, not in the best of health but not close to death either. My wife of 32 years and I have one child, a daughter, and she, like me, teaches school. My wife is a medical professional. We supplement our income with money from oil royalties and revenues from a farm that has been in my family for 52 of my 59 years. We owe no money; all of our homes, real-estate, and vehicles are paid for. (sorry, I knew no other way to end the sentence except with a preposition) We are, by no means, wealthy, but neither are we uncomfortable.

I believe one of the greatest obstacles to a successful marriage is money, or rather the lack of it. I married when I was 26 and my wife was 19, and I was well employed. I was able to send my wife to college and provide us both with the creature comforts necessary for, well… comfort. We didn’t fight over money. Actually, my wife and I never fight, period.

The proceeding two paragraphs were inserted to give you an idea of where I’m coming from as a member of a class. I am a white Protestant, and I consider myself and my family to be firmly entrenched in the middle class masses.

The sex drive, throughout a male’s life, at least this male’s life, seems to go through periods of less interest. It doesn’t mean the males love their partner any less; it, for me, meant that I simply didn’t want to have sex as often. I would see a different woman that I considered sexy, and my libido sometimes took a surge; I’d get horny. That may or may not have spilled over to my wife. On occasions a fantasy resulted that ultimately ended in masturbation. Other times I used my wife in something of a masturbatory way by thinking of the woman that tripped my trigger while having sex with her.

Other times, visiting friends and our hot tub managed to prime the pump as well. Watching another man blossom into full erection as he ogled my wife tended to add wickedness to the situation. Knowing that another man really wants one’s wife can add a kind of… sexual appreciation for one’s partner that often lasts for months.

Have I mentioned that the most important and significant human in my life is my wife? Have I mentioned that I absolutely can not survive without her; that I have lived a life of happiness, because of her, that few can imagine? I just thought I loved her when I married her. Those feelings, as strong as they were, aren’t on the same planet with the feelings I have for her now. Well, I guess they’re on the same planet – neither of us has left this one.

Another important condition of a marriage, perhaps the most important, is trust. I have never been unfaithful to my wife nor has she ever to me, however, it can be very difficult to keep the passion in a marriage. (Especially after children) Consider the SOFT swing. We were never hardcore swingers, but, on a few occasions, it got close…

Now we are much older and things don’t work as well as they used to – for either of us. Now we usually just enjoy each other without being naked. Now, as empty nesters, we’re just damn glad to have each other.

The only real advice I can offer is to always communicate, but just telling him you're horny won't necessarily make him horny. Do you have close friends and a hot tub or pool? Worked for us.

 

[wave74]

back soon for update

speaking of real life...this has been a busy week, haven't had much time to spend here. will re-read through the post that scalywag asked about (yes, had read through it prior to posting, but perhaps not carefully, and now have a different perspective) and give an update on some recent conversations. he won't go to counseling, but we're communicating so that's a start. i finally got the nerve to tell two close friends who know my husband--they also had insight, but want me to read the mars & venus books, at least for laughs if nothing else

thanks jpaul as well...wow, another perspective altogether. will respond soon.

thank you all again.

 

[Private_Label]

As one who suffers from chronic depression, I swear by the recomendation to see both the medical doctor for medication and another for talk therapy. Having the right balance of medications/light therapy and learning the why a dn how of what is at the center of the depression - yes it may be initiated by the change in the level of light, but after that it affects other areas of your life... - It got to the point where I was having trouble getting motivated to leave the house for anything. Chances are theat there is more affected by the SAD than just your sex life. And the biggest problem is, the longer you suffer from depression, the less likely you will be motivated to go get the help you need.

Do it sooner rather than later, medications for depression sometimes take 4 to 6 weeks before they reach their full effectiveness. Then if that medication isn't the correct one, or you need to add another medication to the mix it may take another few weeks for that to be effective... but trust me on this, once you find the mix that works for you, you feel nearly your normal happy self.

For me:
Prozac left me feeling like a zombie. I didn't feel like crying unnecessarily anymore, but I also didn't feel much like laghing. MOre Apathetic, I didn't care anymore... (I really disliked this feeling)

Zoloft made me feel more *normal*, but after a few months I was also feeling a bit edgy/tense/irritated. When Trazadone was added to the mix, within a couple of weeks I felt like my old self, awake, alert, and able to laugh and cry normally and have the normal flux and flow of emotions. It made a HUGE difference on what I was able to do, and I became more motivated to do the normal things of my life -like go out and pick up my mail, go to the store, go out with friends, and just feel like a normal person again.

Don't wait, get the discussion going with the professionals on this. Getting the proper help will make a big differnece in his life, and yours.

 

[wave74]

still a rollercoaster, but better

have had relatives in town, so no reading and posting here (can't imagine explaining that to my mom---no matter how you dice it).

We had an enlightening chat, though of course things aren't crystal clear yet or "solved." Funny, now the depression issue doesn't seem to be as much of a reason from his perspective as it was back in January. Now it is everything else. First, there was a misudnerstanding that we cleared up, he was under the impression I did not want to have kids in order to travel the world. What I said was I wanted to go on one last big trip before settling down to have children. (hmm...mars & venus?), not that we couldn't travel with kids, but that it would be different. Because of our professions, travel opportunities will be few and far between because of budget.

Second, I explained to him how my self esteem had plummeted (even more rapidly recently) because of this issue, and asked again about being attracted to me in general. He admitted that he noticed I had gained weight and that was part of it, but it wasn't a problem because he knows I work out reguarly and had commented on it myself. Ahh...the cruelties of life, I work out 3-5 times a week (unless work scheudle or other activities get in the way which they do), he never does and I'm the one with the problem. I mentioned that now at 32 my body is changing and I hope he can still love me and not pine for the 22 year old he fell in love with (which was never perfect to begin with--as he noted, he knew what he was "getting into"). I mentioned that he could stand to do a few sit ups himself when we were able to laugh about it (much later). [Hmmm...maybe I should post a few pics on the amateuer pics forum, there seems to be an appreciation for all body types here.]

We talked about other influences, and shared responsibilities. He mentioned lifestyle changes such as going to bed earlier and I mentioned that I would need his help on our menu selection and willingness to eat certian things. We share cooking/shopping etc. He suggested I not visit Lit as much and get "worked up". I explained that recently I had been seeking more personal/emotional/relationship advice and inspiration rather than sexual, but that in general I wasn't going to promise anything because I need an outlet. However, he also wanted me to explore more ways to orgasm (rather than the "sure thing")--I replied, funny you should mention b/c I just ordered a number of toys from ebay, and that was also one of the reasons I came here in the first place (in a roundabout way). I also mentioned that was something I was hoping to explore more together, but all in good time. In the meantime I have been letting my orgasm take the back seat and let him focus on what he wants, to break the mold and routine and get him to tell mw what he wants and desires. We also discussed his comments on me "wearing him out" after oral sex and a quickie one Saturday before running errands, I asked how he planned to chase after kids if that was tiring. [Please recall if you've read the whole thread he is 36 not 86 ].

Things have been up and down since. The night we went to dinner to celebrate birthdays, I mentioned that I wasn't expecting a romantic evening afterwards so he seemed relieved. This upset me, but... I have been generally wary of upsetting, annoying, or pressuring him and thus guarded with my attentiveness to him. I told him that I loved him, he was my husband and I was turned on by him no matter what he looks like and only hoped for the same in return. I explained that it was hard for me to draw the line between showing regular loving affection and sexual affection (which I had even the last years of our growing routine) and ultimately making him feel pressured. So, I just haven't, until the last week or so. He's noticed I think, and is actually paying a bit more attention to me. It's touch and go. This past Saturday I noticed he was turned on before going out for dinner so that sparked an interesting evening. He mentioned that he had been earlier that day but "it didn't seem to be a good time" {after we had both been working in the yard then I exercised as he took a nap}. I replied that right now anytime was a good time. That ended up with a little fondling before going out and I made sure to take advantage right when we got home (previous attempts at this routine change met with "I'm too full..."). ....then we watched a movie after.

to jpaul2...I see where you are coming from. and on your other suggestion...interesting twist & idea, but that's not an option for us. All close friends are either pregnant or have a newborn at home, or are single with other life issues altogether. Hot tub action is not likely on their minds...lol There was one couple he went to grad school with that the wife outright said she wanted to have sex with him, he told me this early on and I was always intriguid by that and have fantasized about it actually (they were safely far away in Oregon, I didn't know them, etc., no uncomfortable feeling afterward, etc. etc. etc.).

to scalywag, and private label--I did spend quite a bit of time reading through the depression thread, ironically at times crying at 2 am in the morning (and I am not the one who is depressed, just sad at this point), but found that it tended to be geared more towards those who admitted having a problem with depression and seeking comfort in shared experience. Yes, I did see parallels, but if that is a central tendency it is a fundamental flaw in the connection and how I can deal with our issue, since he feels it irrelevant or a not as big of a deal as he perceives I make it. and on that note...he also mentioned that I was just so serious about it, and i replied that was only during the 2-3 times we had actually discussed it, and that had not been my attitude when trying to initiate sex or showing affection.

Well, enough for now, thanks to all again, I felt like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders just to start this thread and get it off my chest here and to friends. One friend who has dealt with similar issues recommended counseling as well, she thought it all symptoms of larger issues but none unfixable, just a bump in the road. He won't go though and at the moment I choose not to press the issue. I am channeling energy into work, other activities, and planning our big trip we agreed to take to Greece for our anniversary in September. Hopefully things will sort themselves out by then and we can come back refreshed and ready to start tyring to have a family.

Meanwhile, the french maid outfit I bought him for his birthday sits waiting for the appropriate time (a cliche I know but he has always mentioned it)...