Pure
Fiel a Verdad
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2001
- Posts
- 15,135
(extends hand)
glad to meet another whiptail fan, and I hope to someday see one of these unisex fuckfests. no doubt you appreciate bonobos too.
{Since we're posing questions for Sher, in what sense is a coital gathering of whiptails properly referred to as a 'lesbian fuckfest'?}
i am no scientist and respect your obvious knowledge.
i gather the whiptail has a triploid ovum, which can routinely start dividing (after fake intercourse), having all chrosomes necessary.
what I was talking about is, for now, artificial induction of cleavage (in a mammalian or human egg), and it appears far more common than you presume, as some of the refs below indicate.
Yes, it would likely (but not certainly--see last ref) take some special artificial induction process with these egg.
There's a known scientist of Christian bent, who wanted to argue Jesus possible virgin birth, and assempled some of the more striking and relevant animal cases, including some mammals. Though the whole article is odd, in going toward a female Jesus becoming also male, I have a feeling the refs and summary are legit.
PS. Aren't you glad, reading what's below, regarding temperature, that you do not live in a very cold climate; thiink of the consequences of a stroll in a blizzard.
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1983/JASA9-83Kessel.html
[excerpt from article on parthenogenesis]
As for the parthenogenetic species, even if I [Kessel] had a complete listing of them, it could not be published here as the number would run into hundreds of thousands. Some genera are included with the outline, as are a few pertinent data and the documentations. Again and again, workers have observed spontaneous cleavage divisions occurring in unfertilized germ cells of many kinds of animals ranging from worms to human beings. This conclusion is supported by the reports of several investigators who found early embryos in various cleavage stages still attached to the ovaries of several kinds of virgin mammals. Examples of such preovulation pregnancy are given by Strassman 57 who worked on the ova of cats, L.Loeb;58 who used guinea pigs, and Krafka59 who studied human ovaries.
Other researchers worked on unfertilized mammalian ova following ovulation, eggs that had been released from the ovary and were encountered in the fallopian tubes or the uterus. Among these investigators were Chang60 who studied ferrets, Pincus61 who used the rabbit, and Austin62 who worked on the rat. Because they all represented early embryological development, the cleavage stages observed by the six workers show that mammalian eggs, like those of lower animals, possess the inherent capacity to initiate cleavage without spermatozoon participation.
This potential of the unfertilized egg to reproduce without male assistance is clearly demonstrated by artificial parthenogenesis whereby even animals that are not known to reproduce by natural parthenogenesis may respond to artificial stimuli. While no viable young were produced in any of the above cases, it seems to be the consensus of embryologists that given optimum environmental factors all animal species, including human beings, have the capacity to react positively to natural or artificial stimuli and to develop to full term. Repeatedly, artificially initiated development has been shown to be fairly easy to achieve, leading even to the production of living young.
The first experiments succeeded in inducing parthenogenesis in echinoderms and were performed by J. Loeb.63 Since his pioneering work, the eggs of many species other than echinoderms have responded to a variety of stimuli with parthenogenetic development. These animals include annelids, silkworms, mollusks, and such vertebrates as fish, frogs, mice, rats, and rabbits. The artificial stimuli have included treatment with various acids, changes in salt concentration of the fluid in which the eggs were immersed, mechanical agitation of the immersing fluid, temperature shock by heating or chilling, electric shock, and mere pricking the eggs with a needle. Almost 30 years ago Peacock64 had already counted 371 procedures that had been used to artificially initiate cleavage in unfertilized eggs. These he classified as 45 physical, 93 chemical, 64 biological, and 169 combinations of the above.
It is clear that practically any kind of stimulus may serve to induce artificial parthenogenesis providing it has proper shock value and the egg in question is in a receptive condition. We may presume therefore that many cases of supposed natural parthenogenesis may result from physical or chemical contaminating environmental factors rather than from spontaneously acting endogenous stimuli existing within the egg. It seems evident however that eggs have within them all the potentialities of successful embryonic development and may respond to various stimuli to trigger cleavage. For these reasons a male parent is not to be regarded as an absolute requirement for successful reproduction.
Experiments on artificial parthenogenesis in rabbits began when unfertilized eggs, left in a glass container, were found to have undergone what appeared to be spontaneous parthenogenesis involving a number of cleavage divisions. Pincus65 then exposed unfertilized rabbit eggs to some of the treatments which had been successful for nonmammalian forms, including high and low temperatures, hypertonic and bypotonic solutions, and various chemicals. They all worked and he transferred the developing embryos to surrogate mothers.
Next, Pincus and Shapiro66 tried cooling unfertilized eggs within a rabbit's own fallopian tubes. The tubes of a virgin female were surgically exposed and cooling jackets were placed around them, chilling the eggs in situ. The cold treatment was effective and the virgin rabbit gave birth to live off spring. Later the cold treatment was tried by cooling the entire rabbit instead of just her fallopian tubes. Again the unfertilized eggs in the tubes were activated to embryonic development.
Returning to the subject of the probability of parthenogenesis in the human species, the observations of Krafka67 revealing the extraordinarily early cleavage divisions of unfertilized human eggs, developing even prior to ovulation, indicate a potential toward unisexual development that is as strong for humankind as it is for our fellow mammals. Such demonstration that the early stages of parthenogenesis are known to actually occur in human beings gives good reason to recognize that full-term parthenogenesis may also occur in our species.
Spurway,68 the leading authority on the possibility of human parthenogenesis, supports this view and concludes that virgin birth is "probable among humans." She reached this conclusion after many years of research at London University. Aside from the reference given above, the results of her study were announced in a United Press release in London, dated Nov. 13, 1955. Previously she had given a lecture on the subject entitled "Virgin Births." A resume' of this lecture was published by Lancet under "Annotations" and the title "Parthenogenesis in Mammals."69
A rare event which is hard to prove is likely never to be reported at all if it is also an event which according to the common experience is 'known' to be impossible.... Possibly some of the unmarried mothers whose obstinacy is condemned in old books on forensic medicine ... may have been telling the truth.
----
52W. P. Hall, "Three Probable Cases of Parthenogenesis in Lizards (Agamidae, Chamaelonidae, Gekkonidae), " Experientia 26, 1271 (1970)
53M.W. Olsen, "Natural Parthenogenesis in Turkey Eggs," Science 120, 545 (1954)
54'---"Twelve Year Summary of Selection for Parthenogenesis in the Beltsville Small White Turkey," British Poultry Science 6, 1 (1965)
55--"Genetic Control of Parthenogenesis in Chickens," Journal of Heredity 59, 41 (1968)
56. Cuellar, "On the Origin of Parthenogenesis in Vertebrates: the Cytogenic Factors," American Naturalist 108, 628 (1974)
57E.O. Strassman, "Parthenogenetic Development of the Ovum as Observed in Vital Staining," American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 58, 237 (1949)
58L. Loeb, "The Parthenogenetic Development of Eggs in the Ovary of the Guinea Pig," Anatomical Record 51, 373 (1932)
59J. Krafka, "Parthenogenetic Cleavage in the Human Ovary," Anatomical Record 75, 19 (1939)
60M.C. Chang, "Cleavage of Unfertilized Ova in Immature Ferrets," Anatomical Record 108, 31 (1950)
61G. Pincus, "Observations on the Living Eggs of the Rabbits," Proceedings of the Royal Society, ser. B, 107, 132 (1930)
62C.R. Austin, "The Fragmentation of Eggs Following Induced Ovulation in Immature Rats," Journal of Endocrinology 6, 104 (1949)
63J. Loeb, "on the Nature of the Process of Fertilization and Artificial Production of Normal Larvae from the Unfertilized Eggs of the Sea Urchin," American Journal of Physiology 3, 135 (1899)
64A.D. Peacock, "Some Problems of Parthenogenesis," Advances in Science 9, 134(1952)
65G. Pincus, "The Breeding of Some Rabbits Produced by Recipients of Artificially Activated Ova," Proceedings National Academy of Sciences, Washington 25, 557 (1939). Also "The Comparative Behavior of Mammalian Eggs in Vivo and in Vitro. IV. The Development of Fertilized and Artificially Activated Rabbit Eggs," Journal of Experimental Zoology 82, 85(1939)
66G. Pincus and H. Shapiro, "Further Studies on the Parthenogenetic Activation of Rabbit Eggs," Proceedings National Academy of Sciences, Washington 26,163 (1940)
67Krafka, op. cit.
68Spurway, op. cit.
69Anonymous, "Parthenogenesis in Mammals," Lancet 269, 967 (1955). [A r6sum6 of Spurway's conclusions. This was partly quoted by Time, Nov. 28, 1955, p. 63]
=
Edward L. Kessel is Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of San Francisco, and Emeritus Curator of Insects, California Academy of Sciences. He received his education at Greenville College, Illinois, Church Divinity School of the Pacific, and the University of California, Berkeley (B,S., M.S., Ph.D.). He has published some 100 scientific papers and is a member of honor societies Phi Sigma, Alpha Sigma Nu, and Sigma Xi. Other professional societies of which he is a member include the American Association for the Advancement of Science (Fellow), California Academy of Sciences (Fellow), Pacific Coast Entomological Society (former President). He is cited in Who's Who in America and World Who Who in Science.
glad to meet another whiptail fan, and I hope to someday see one of these unisex fuckfests. no doubt you appreciate bonobos too.
{Since we're posing questions for Sher, in what sense is a coital gathering of whiptails properly referred to as a 'lesbian fuckfest'?}
i am no scientist and respect your obvious knowledge.
i gather the whiptail has a triploid ovum, which can routinely start dividing (after fake intercourse), having all chrosomes necessary.
what I was talking about is, for now, artificial induction of cleavage (in a mammalian or human egg), and it appears far more common than you presume, as some of the refs below indicate.
Yes, it would likely (but not certainly--see last ref) take some special artificial induction process with these egg.
There's a known scientist of Christian bent, who wanted to argue Jesus possible virgin birth, and assempled some of the more striking and relevant animal cases, including some mammals. Though the whole article is odd, in going toward a female Jesus becoming also male, I have a feeling the refs and summary are legit.
PS. Aren't you glad, reading what's below, regarding temperature, that you do not live in a very cold climate; thiink of the consequences of a stroll in a blizzard.
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1983/JASA9-83Kessel.html
[excerpt from article on parthenogenesis]
As for the parthenogenetic species, even if I [Kessel] had a complete listing of them, it could not be published here as the number would run into hundreds of thousands. Some genera are included with the outline, as are a few pertinent data and the documentations. Again and again, workers have observed spontaneous cleavage divisions occurring in unfertilized germ cells of many kinds of animals ranging from worms to human beings. This conclusion is supported by the reports of several investigators who found early embryos in various cleavage stages still attached to the ovaries of several kinds of virgin mammals. Examples of such preovulation pregnancy are given by Strassman 57 who worked on the ova of cats, L.Loeb;58 who used guinea pigs, and Krafka59 who studied human ovaries.
Other researchers worked on unfertilized mammalian ova following ovulation, eggs that had been released from the ovary and were encountered in the fallopian tubes or the uterus. Among these investigators were Chang60 who studied ferrets, Pincus61 who used the rabbit, and Austin62 who worked on the rat. Because they all represented early embryological development, the cleavage stages observed by the six workers show that mammalian eggs, like those of lower animals, possess the inherent capacity to initiate cleavage without spermatozoon participation.
This potential of the unfertilized egg to reproduce without male assistance is clearly demonstrated by artificial parthenogenesis whereby even animals that are not known to reproduce by natural parthenogenesis may respond to artificial stimuli. While no viable young were produced in any of the above cases, it seems to be the consensus of embryologists that given optimum environmental factors all animal species, including human beings, have the capacity to react positively to natural or artificial stimuli and to develop to full term. Repeatedly, artificially initiated development has been shown to be fairly easy to achieve, leading even to the production of living young.
The first experiments succeeded in inducing parthenogenesis in echinoderms and were performed by J. Loeb.63 Since his pioneering work, the eggs of many species other than echinoderms have responded to a variety of stimuli with parthenogenetic development. These animals include annelids, silkworms, mollusks, and such vertebrates as fish, frogs, mice, rats, and rabbits. The artificial stimuli have included treatment with various acids, changes in salt concentration of the fluid in which the eggs were immersed, mechanical agitation of the immersing fluid, temperature shock by heating or chilling, electric shock, and mere pricking the eggs with a needle. Almost 30 years ago Peacock64 had already counted 371 procedures that had been used to artificially initiate cleavage in unfertilized eggs. These he classified as 45 physical, 93 chemical, 64 biological, and 169 combinations of the above.
It is clear that practically any kind of stimulus may serve to induce artificial parthenogenesis providing it has proper shock value and the egg in question is in a receptive condition. We may presume therefore that many cases of supposed natural parthenogenesis may result from physical or chemical contaminating environmental factors rather than from spontaneously acting endogenous stimuli existing within the egg. It seems evident however that eggs have within them all the potentialities of successful embryonic development and may respond to various stimuli to trigger cleavage. For these reasons a male parent is not to be regarded as an absolute requirement for successful reproduction.
Experiments on artificial parthenogenesis in rabbits began when unfertilized eggs, left in a glass container, were found to have undergone what appeared to be spontaneous parthenogenesis involving a number of cleavage divisions. Pincus65 then exposed unfertilized rabbit eggs to some of the treatments which had been successful for nonmammalian forms, including high and low temperatures, hypertonic and bypotonic solutions, and various chemicals. They all worked and he transferred the developing embryos to surrogate mothers.
Next, Pincus and Shapiro66 tried cooling unfertilized eggs within a rabbit's own fallopian tubes. The tubes of a virgin female were surgically exposed and cooling jackets were placed around them, chilling the eggs in situ. The cold treatment was effective and the virgin rabbit gave birth to live off spring. Later the cold treatment was tried by cooling the entire rabbit instead of just her fallopian tubes. Again the unfertilized eggs in the tubes were activated to embryonic development.
Returning to the subject of the probability of parthenogenesis in the human species, the observations of Krafka67 revealing the extraordinarily early cleavage divisions of unfertilized human eggs, developing even prior to ovulation, indicate a potential toward unisexual development that is as strong for humankind as it is for our fellow mammals. Such demonstration that the early stages of parthenogenesis are known to actually occur in human beings gives good reason to recognize that full-term parthenogenesis may also occur in our species.
Spurway,68 the leading authority on the possibility of human parthenogenesis, supports this view and concludes that virgin birth is "probable among humans." She reached this conclusion after many years of research at London University. Aside from the reference given above, the results of her study were announced in a United Press release in London, dated Nov. 13, 1955. Previously she had given a lecture on the subject entitled "Virgin Births." A resume' of this lecture was published by Lancet under "Annotations" and the title "Parthenogenesis in Mammals."69
A rare event which is hard to prove is likely never to be reported at all if it is also an event which according to the common experience is 'known' to be impossible.... Possibly some of the unmarried mothers whose obstinacy is condemned in old books on forensic medicine ... may have been telling the truth.
----
52W. P. Hall, "Three Probable Cases of Parthenogenesis in Lizards (Agamidae, Chamaelonidae, Gekkonidae), " Experientia 26, 1271 (1970)
53M.W. Olsen, "Natural Parthenogenesis in Turkey Eggs," Science 120, 545 (1954)
54'---"Twelve Year Summary of Selection for Parthenogenesis in the Beltsville Small White Turkey," British Poultry Science 6, 1 (1965)
55--"Genetic Control of Parthenogenesis in Chickens," Journal of Heredity 59, 41 (1968)
56. Cuellar, "On the Origin of Parthenogenesis in Vertebrates: the Cytogenic Factors," American Naturalist 108, 628 (1974)
57E.O. Strassman, "Parthenogenetic Development of the Ovum as Observed in Vital Staining," American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 58, 237 (1949)
58L. Loeb, "The Parthenogenetic Development of Eggs in the Ovary of the Guinea Pig," Anatomical Record 51, 373 (1932)
59J. Krafka, "Parthenogenetic Cleavage in the Human Ovary," Anatomical Record 75, 19 (1939)
60M.C. Chang, "Cleavage of Unfertilized Ova in Immature Ferrets," Anatomical Record 108, 31 (1950)
61G. Pincus, "Observations on the Living Eggs of the Rabbits," Proceedings of the Royal Society, ser. B, 107, 132 (1930)
62C.R. Austin, "The Fragmentation of Eggs Following Induced Ovulation in Immature Rats," Journal of Endocrinology 6, 104 (1949)
63J. Loeb, "on the Nature of the Process of Fertilization and Artificial Production of Normal Larvae from the Unfertilized Eggs of the Sea Urchin," American Journal of Physiology 3, 135 (1899)
64A.D. Peacock, "Some Problems of Parthenogenesis," Advances in Science 9, 134(1952)
65G. Pincus, "The Breeding of Some Rabbits Produced by Recipients of Artificially Activated Ova," Proceedings National Academy of Sciences, Washington 25, 557 (1939). Also "The Comparative Behavior of Mammalian Eggs in Vivo and in Vitro. IV. The Development of Fertilized and Artificially Activated Rabbit Eggs," Journal of Experimental Zoology 82, 85(1939)
66G. Pincus and H. Shapiro, "Further Studies on the Parthenogenetic Activation of Rabbit Eggs," Proceedings National Academy of Sciences, Washington 26,163 (1940)
67Krafka, op. cit.
68Spurway, op. cit.
69Anonymous, "Parthenogenesis in Mammals," Lancet 269, 967 (1955). [A r6sum6 of Spurway's conclusions. This was partly quoted by Time, Nov. 28, 1955, p. 63]
=
Edward L. Kessel is Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of San Francisco, and Emeritus Curator of Insects, California Academy of Sciences. He received his education at Greenville College, Illinois, Church Divinity School of the Pacific, and the University of California, Berkeley (B,S., M.S., Ph.D.). He has published some 100 scientific papers and is a member of honor societies Phi Sigma, Alpha Sigma Nu, and Sigma Xi. Other professional societies of which he is a member include the American Association for the Advancement of Science (Fellow), California Academy of Sciences (Fellow), Pacific Coast Entomological Society (former President). He is cited in Who's Who in America and World Who Who in Science.
