Shame on you American-Hating Liberals.

[HeavyStick]

Or at least that's what Tony Parsons of the UK's The Daily Mirror had to say.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12188969&method=full&siteid=50143

SHAME ON YOU AMERICAN-HATING LIBERALS

Sep 11 2002

Tony Parsons


ONE year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting - the mass murder of thousands, live on television.

As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's mountain of skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps.

An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate.

Surely there could be consensus: the victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.

But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance.

Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.

There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country - too loud, too rich, too full of themselves and so much happier than Europeans - but it has become an epidemic.

And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood.

A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon?

And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of countries - were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?

What touched the heart about those who died in the twin towers and on the planes was that we recognised them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands and wives. And children. Some unborn.

And these people brought it on themselves? And their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?

These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan.

The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

Remember, remember.

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive. Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember, remember - and realise that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.

So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex.

So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.

AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength.

American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?

When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism". A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell", if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe.

The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth.

The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.

But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.

I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic.

Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that.

Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers.

Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper.

And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department. To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein.

Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange centre, oh mighty one!

Remember, remember, September 11. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.

No, do more than remember. Never forget.

A Brit with a voice may not be supporting the upcoming war with Iraq, but he sure as hell understands why we're more pissed than the rest of the world.


*edited to show the original article from my own 2 cents.*

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I thought it was a good essay.

CB, what's anti-corporate? What's it mean? Does it mean that you don't like the existing political/judicial framework that allows market based distribution of resources, goods and services?

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[HeavyStick]

Do you have any credibility left? There was nothing about liberals in that piece. You project what you hate in there. If you hate liberals, fine. Don't pin Anti-Americanism on us. Most of my colleagues are anti-corporate, not anti-America. Grow up.

Did you read the article or just the title and authors name?

Did you click on the link and see it was someone else's words?

Do you always fly off the handle so quickly?

So when others C&P an article it's credible.

My only words were, " A Brit with a voice may not be supporting the upcoming war with Iraq, but he sure as hell understands why we're more pissed than the rest of the world."

All the rest was the original author.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I dislike the level of influence that corporations have on governments, both here and abroad. You see it when your in offices that get comp tickets to Athletic/entertainment events, free trips to "check out" a corporation's pet project, things like that. You would not believe the amount of "gifts" that are tossed to politicians, even at the local level.

Sorry, I read closer. There is a bit about liberals in there. I will stand by my statement that liberals are not Anti-America. You notice that the only conservatives mentioned are those who exist outside the US? That's a Hawk for you.

Finding the right level of balance is a challenge. Often the commercial health of a country has a direct bearing on the standard of living as well as the health and well-being of the citizens. Do you think that Hugo Chavez, the leftist President of Venezuela is not intimately involved with the oil producers in his country? I think it's part and parcel of the whole thing, regardless of what kind of government you have. You just have to have checks and balances to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand.

What do you suggest as an alternative?

 

[JustAnotrGuy]

Parts of the essay were good, about understanding the view points of the people who lost loved ones, but it was pretty biased. Any anti-american sentiment I have, being an american, is that our American government, be it one of the best in the world, if not the best, is not an entity of virtue, but rather one held back by a wonderful document called the Bill of Rights. Did Germany start world war II? Nope, its government did. Did the people of Iraq say, hey, lets all get together and murder kuwaitis on a massive scale? Nope, it's government did. Did Americans want to go bomb the shit out of Iraq? Not until its government told them it was the right thing to do.

Of course, there are always individuals who defy public opinion, as I have no doubt there are people who wanted to bomb iraq before bush started preeching it, but not always for the same reasons, as in any other situation.

 

[HeavyStick]

The Title wasn't yours?

I apologized in the post above. I don't often knee jerk, but this was an exceptionally biased piece, by someone who doesn't care to delve into liberal politics and has pre-concieved notions of what "liberal" means.

I modified the title from all caps, that was my only alteration. I know The Daily Mirror is considered a fairly liberal publication. I was suprised that a prominent author for them would write something of that nature.

The title of the thread is the title of the original writing.

I don't hate liberals.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[HeavyStick]

Sorry, I read closer. There is a bit about liberals in there. I will stand by my statement that liberals are not Anti-America. You notice that the only conservatives mentioned are those who exist outside the US? That's a Hawk for you.

With the article being from a foreign press, I'm sure it was aimed at the liberals there and not necessarily all of them.

 

[Spinaroonie]

This thread was done back the... turned into a big shitfest

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Regulatory agencies that ACTUALLY regulate the industries that they are supposed to. Most are captured -they consistently act in favor of the industries that they are supposed to regulate. Great example? The Securities and Exchange Commission, take a good look at what Wendy Gramm did when she was on it-and where she went afterward. There's a whole lot of corruption in our government.

Part of the government's job is also to promote it's industry both here and abroad in the spirit of the "good of the people". A corporation, after all, is just an organization of people bound together voluntarily to produce goods and services for people. The trick in our culture is to produce those goods and services so that people will use the virtual representation of their capital and labor (money) to purchase those goods and services at a level (price) that ensures that the organization can remain viable.

Do you consider enterprise evil?

 

[ksmybuttons]

Do you have any credibility left? There was nothing about liberals in that piece. You project what you hate in there. If you hate liberals, fine. Don't pin Anti-Americanism on us. Most of my colleagues are anti-corporate, not anti-America. Grow up.

I am a liberal. My friends are not anti corporation, but we are pro-integrity and pro-humanism. One of the reasons that restraint was used was because there is a balance of conservative and liberal views. I like to think that some American's have a goal of globalization: freedom and wealth like ours for everyone. Opportunities for everyone. We have the American dream. Our country is blended. Although we are still working on issues such as diversity and equality, we at least are working on it. Nothing is perfect.

As long as we have different voices and beliefs, and we can find creative compromises, this country will continue to be a great place. If we don't allow dissenting views, we become no better than any dictatorship.

Every conservative needs a liberal and every liberal needs a conservative otherwise who would we have to shoot ideology with?

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Of course enterprise isn't evil. I've done a lot of research on different aspects of corporate involvement in state affairs, Wendy Gramm was integral in the ENRON debacle, there are issues with Coca-Cola and water in India right now. There are plenty of levels on which corporations affect public life and disrupt it-and not to the benefit of the public. Who appreciated the rolling blackouts in California?

There's a difference between regulation and stifling. The recognition of that difference is what is missing in politics today.

Take a look at Bolivia and it's water privitization scheme. It's sickening the extent to which people are exploited.

Please tell me more about water in Bolivia.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Notice I said most of my colleagues are anti-corporate? I didn't say ALL liberals. I'm not entirely anti-corporate. I can't justify Rep/Senators (state and federal) staff taking tickets to hockey games from an energy company, or a pharmaceutical -and later voting in cooperation with said company's stand on a specific bill. It's sickening.

Yes, I agree. That is where the integrity kicks in...

 

[badasschick]

Please tell me more about water in Bolivia.

Watch the movie "Chinatown" you'll get the gist.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Watch the movie "Chinatown" you'll get the gist.

Hello Sexy.

I'm familiar with the situation in Venezuela, Brazil and several African countries. I'm probably familiar with Bolivia too, but I can't directly recall with out a reminder.

Did they privatize with the French organization or the German one? What was the negotiated deal....government guarantee or full ownership? What was the stated goal? What was the prior problem that needed fixing?

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[70/30]

This thread was done back the... turned into a big shitfest

An all-time thread, many prime posters fighting in a confined space. Cheyenne and Miles still have no use.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Bolivia

It's a PDF.

Public Citizen did the auto safety stuff with Nader-and Toxic Shock Research, as well as the info on Rhys. They are pretty damn reputable. They can explain it better than I can.

Thanks, CB. That was an interesting read. I do admit I get insulated by my day in, day out life.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I'm doing some more reading.

What often happens in many countries is that their water systems aren't maintained, they start to break and supplies become unreliable. When supplies become unreliable health issues start to arise. Often governments can't politically do anything about the water...often their methods are inefficient (prone to graft and corruption) so the infrastructure continues to deteriorate and often the water itself becomes unsafe. They also often have a hard time raising the money for maintenance and extension of services to new areas because they can't collect the real cost of providing the money and they can't cut any more money out of budgets that are already strained.

I'll have to read more about this. There's another side to this story and I'm curious to find out about it.

I'm particularly curious about whether there were health issues as one of the original motivation factors for the drastic "rescue" of the water system.

Did you just read this one point of view without reading the other side of the story?