Sex does not exist...

[skizbees]

(I haven't posted here since around July or so but)

In my current relationship of 13 months. We've been celibate almost two months. He told me tonight, "You don't even like penises." during dinner! As well as on more than one occasion in much harsher words. He won't touch me and assumes because I don't initiate that I don't want him, and he also has said "I assumed you'd always say no, so I stopped trying." I have genital herpes and meds to treat outbreaks and I was on the Pill until insurance ran out (I moved cross country with him late August 07'.).

I've had trouble completing sex prior to learning I contracted my std. My pelvic floor locks up and I've bled during and after sex with him, if we were able to get me penetrated. I might as well be screwing a bat with sandpaper wrapped around it...that's how uncomfortable it's been even with lube, toys, more foreplay, etc. Glad he's gifted in the pants, but I don't like being impaled and crying.

It's embarrasing and I've turned into his girl roommate practically. I'm positive he won't touch me again until I get adequate insurance and have been back on BC at least a week. His ways of iniating sex is saying "So..You wanna give me a blow job?" "You're horny right?" or he'll jump on top of me while I'm sleeping and start humping me (250 pounds on me is NOT very comfy, as I'm barely 113.) I know he is not cheating since we both keep tabs on each other 24/7 practically since we're relatively new in town. We've gone to strip clubs together more than once and didn't have sex (Had a blast at the first place (all nude, with a live cover band), the second place was boring (topless only, idiot hyperactive DJ). I don't know if it's me, or my lack of hormones.I like having alone time, as does he. But we both know and have expressed our needs not being met sexually. He claims things are better with me with his guy friends, since I'm "One of the guys" when I'm around them.

But anyway,

How do I iniate when my partner assumes rejection regardless of my attempts due to past difficulties? I sometimes don't feel like a woman around him, just some thing that has the right parts he likes to play with, roll over, and sleep next to. Everything else we get along amazing well with. I don't want another relationship and my family (well, my mother) would jump at the chance to say "I told you so. Now we'll help you move home to complete your escape plan!". My dad can't even remember my guy's name, and my sister could care less about contacting me.

 

[NippleMuncher]

I didn't make it through the third paragraph before I wanted to post for you to drop this asshole like a hot rock! But, before passing judgment, I finished reading ... and arrived at the same conclusion!

Strictly adhering to your description of your relationship, he comes across as nothing more than an immature ass, with little to no regard for your feelings or personal needs - sexually or otherwise. For this reason alone you should end the relationship and move on to someone that will respect you for who you are, not just see you as a personal play thing. Trust me, you deserve much better. Relationships are two way streets, you gotta give some to take some From the sounds of it, he's only interested in what's in it for him, instead of what's in it for both of you. You sound like you've got a few issues yourself (who doesn't? ), but sexually speaking, nothing that can't be worked through if you had a sensitive or caring partner and this guy isn't it.

Regarding your familial description. Do not let the opinion of your family sway you in handling your affairs! So what if your mother says "I told you so", it's probably not the first time she's said it, it's not likely to be the last. Quite honestly, that attitude reflects more on her own faults than any you could possibly have or be guilted into having (the point of "I told you so" ). I would take more meaning from your sister who won't speak to you (presumably because of your boyfriend ) and your father who "can't remember his name".

There are a few of us nice guys out there who are intelligent, mature, and caring towards the needs of our significant others. We may be a commodity that's hard to find these days, but we're out there.

 

[emap]

I am tempted to agree with nipple except because well seriously, he may be not asking because he does not want to look like all he cares about is getting his rocks off, he may be scared of catching your herpes, and he may not want to cause you pain.

With all that said, if he is not rocking your world when you two are together in that way, toss his ass because he won't get better. Otherwise, work on it, there is no law that says when your in the mood you can't go up to him drop his pants and get him ready to rock your world.

Seriously, men are simple, I mean simple to a high degree, many all you have to do is assume his favorite position and pull your clothes out of the way. A whispered word or two in his ear work quite well, I have had let's go somewhere private, fuck me now, and I want to ride you for an hour or two work for me in a bar, I am sure you know better phrases to use on him. Just go with the KISS method, simple works every time.

Oh just in case you don't know, KISS is Keep It Simple Stupid, though I think in your case it is closer to meaning Keep It Simple Silly.

 

[skizbees]

Again, I repeat that he assumes I'll reject him, so he doesn't try, or respond when I try to get any. We got a bigger bed (A king size) and still sleep on opposite ends. I'm sure we'll find our way back to each other.

If I walk away from him...I'll either have to move back to Boston or home to Alabama. I have my reasons for staying the hell out of Alabama. He bought the house we live in (I provided about 90% of the furniture, and do the cooking, cleaning, laundry...ugh southern upbringing timewarp , but he provides a lot for me). I also am human tech support to gadgets and know basic plumbing repairs. We are planning to start a small business together since we are both music teachers/performers. I've started to make some friends and other business contacts.

On a sexual note, I don't want to risk a pregnancy, possibly passing on an STD to a newborn, or to him. I need to directly ask again why he won't touch me sexually. I believe we both reject each other in that sense, out of fear and a loss of connection. I'd like to get off, too. We spent our first two months together off our feet. I miss that frequency (an average of 42 times a week ), or maybe my vagina had enough for a while.

 

[SweetErika]

(I haven't posted here since around July or so but)

Welcome back!

I have some questions for you...

In my current relationship of 13 months. We've been celibate almost two months. He told me tonight, "You don't even like penises." during dinner! As well as on more than one occasion in much harsher words. He won't touch me and assumes because I don't initiate that I don't want him, and he also has said "I assumed you'd always say no, so I stopped trying."

How have you responded to these things?

I have genital herpes and meds to treat outbreaks and I was on the Pill until insurance ran out (I moved cross country with him late August 07'.).

So, you've basically be celibate since right after you moved together, and you moved about 10 months into the relationship? From your other posts, it seems like you've lived together almost from the start, though I may be mistaken on that.

I'm wondering if the living together so early in the relationship and/or moving across the country could have something to do with the sexual problems.

I've had trouble completing sex prior to learning I contracted my std. My pelvic floor locks up and I've bled during and after sex with him, if we were able to get me penetrated. I might as well be screwing a bat with sandpaper wrapped around it...that's how uncomfortable it's been even with lube, toys, more foreplay, etc. Glad he's gifted in the pants, but I don't like being impaled and crying.

Do you know why your pelvic floor muscles lock up? Is it just a matter of his size, or could there be another reason? Has it happened with other partners?

I would say he may be blaming the lack of sex on you not initiating because he doesn't want to hurt you, but the next quote makes me think he doesn't really care if you're enjoying yourself or not.

His ways of iniating sex is saying "So..You wanna give me a blow job?" "You're horny right?" or he'll jump on top of me while I'm sleeping and start humping me (250 pounds on me is NOT very comfy, as I'm barely 113.)

What do you do when he does this? Have you told him it bothers you?

How do I iniate when my partner assumes rejection regardless of my attempts due to past difficulties? I sometimes don't feel like a woman around him, just some thing that has the right parts he likes to play with, roll over, and sleep next to. Everything else we get along amazing well with. I don't want another relationship and my family (well, my mother) would jump at the chance to say "I told you so. Now we'll help you move home to complete your escape plan!". My dad can't even remember my guy's name, and my sister could care less about contacting me.

Granted, I don't know your family dynamics, but it sounds like your mom and dad are concerned about you, the health of your relationship, and want to make sure you know you have options if it doesn't work out.

I'd be VERY concerned if my kid moved in with someone and/or moved across the country so early in the relationship. Why? Because I know doing so can make people feel like they have to stay in an unhealthy relationship because they don't have the financial and/or other resources to get out. Sometimes, they're just plain embarrassed to end it, fearing they'll look like a failure to themselves or others. People often get married after moving in together, whether they know each other as well as they should and have the tools to have a successful marriage, or not, and regardless of the state of the relationship. That usually leads to divorce, which is painful, and no loving parent wants to see their kid hurting.

So, I can see my remedy to that being to tell my kid we had a plan in case they were unhappy, and they were always welcome to come back home until they could get on their feet again. In the vast majority of cases, it's not an "I told you so" thing, it's an "I love you and want the best for you" thing.

I do understand where you're coming from, though. My mom is always convinced I'm in trouble even though I'm a relatively healthy, happy, productive member of society who's been in a great relationship for 9 years. When we moved in together, she was very clear about her doubts/concerns, yet now she believes people should cohabitate after a couple of years, before considering marriage. She annoys the hell out of me, but at the end of the day, I know it's all coming from her love for her baby.

Anyway, I think there's a lot more going on here than the lack of sex. How happy are you the majority of the time, really? How has stuff like this played into your current problems? Are you a good communicating and problem-solving couple? Would you stay or go if your family's reaction wasn't an issue (i.e., if you had a nice place of your own to go to, and your family would be happy and quiet either way, would you choose to stay in this situation)?

I'm not advocating making any rash decisions, or even breaking up with this guy. I am encouraging you to think carefully and make decisions that will further your happiness, regardless of anyone's reaction.

 

[PertPerth]

SweetErika and all the others have some great points, so I doubt I have anything new to add.

There are so many issues here, it's hard to know where to start. It's also hard to know what is a symptom of something else - because you can "fix the sex", but if there is an issue behind it...then the problem isn't really fixed, is it?

(Please don't take anything I say to heart - I'm on your side. I just thought you might like another opinion.) Your STD could be one reason he ask for sex the way he asks you. Perhaps he thinks that you're the one with an STD - so you should be grateful that he will have sex with you at all...and he might think that you should be asking - even begging him...not the other way around.

Pain during sex - another huge issue. I have pain during sex and have only recently admitted that fact to my boyfriend. We used to have sex 3 or 4 times in a night...now I have to ask for penetration. Yep, it still hurts - doesn't mean that I don't want it. My boyfriend finds it hard to deal with that he might be hurting me and so backs off - unfortuantely it makes me feel like I'm not good enough and that he's rejecting me. It's a terrible cycle to get caught in!
It's not in your head. There ARE physical conditions which can be treated by either your GP and/or gyno. Steroid/cortisone creams, hormonal creams, trying different hormonal/contraceptive pills, some older anti-depressants help, physiotherapy (ie stretching/desensortising), laser treatment, surgery <-- last option for me!

The there is the issue of you moving together and not knowing many people. You mentioned that you both need your own time. Is either one of you feeling 'trapped'? People do strange things and act in strange ways when we think that there is no way out of the situation - basically we panic!

You obviously care enough about him to want to try and work things out. My best advice is talk to him. Don't play the blame game - pin-point the real problems, talk about them together and try to come up with a workable solution.

Take care
Pert

 

[skizbees]

I plan to talk with him later tonight. My pelvic floor has always locked up when I've had sex. (With myself or a partner ) Medically haven't been able to figure that out. I learned the hard way that hypoallergenic is an oyxmoron for my body composition. I researched a condition called vaginismus and know there's no definite test to diagnose anything. The day I learned of my STD offically (the doc said it was the worst case she had seen, and that I also had the flu for about a month), I told him immediately. I didn't see or hear from him until the following afternoon (He left his car across the street from my apartment at the time.) He was scared, hell, so was I.

We're around each other constantly . It's hard to miss someone when they're always there. He's gained somewhat of a gut from bad diet choices, and lately has gotten into absorbing marketing, hypotherapy, real estate, tax laws, self hypnosis, tony robbins...I'm not sure what he's trying to find or why he's searching so damn hard. We still both go to the gym four times a week. I'm progressing without his training advice, and he's been getting some nagging injuries, or completing the wrong workout days he assigned himself. I'm no 6'5" bodybuilding male (he's 30), and he's not a 4'11" bodybuilding/power lifting female (I'm 23), so our training cannot be one size fits all. I pray he's not trying to literally fall apart with overtraining and drumming.

I don't know who this man is at the moment. He start spouting things from the tapes like he's always believed it and I end up getting quizzed on it later on so I too can "understand" everything. I'm not in undergrad lecture anymore or brainwashing 101. I've told him it's interesting subjects, but annoying to listen to audio CDs of rich people bragging about their success and how you can *almost* do the same thing, but only how they tell you to. He wants to be the best at everything he's interested in, but in the form of some kind of well paid/liked expert guru.

I found out that a friend was worried about my relationship, and told me "I thought you were with me around this time last year? What happened?" (4th of July in Boston at the time was the last time we really spoke.) We were friends and sometimes drinking buddies, not in a relationship. News to my ears, as I remember him asking me advice about getting with a girl, or at least talking to one at a bar and ignoring me later in the fall when I was with my guy. It seems we've had a falling out over me simply not being single, or being with him. I don't really know what to make of it or if I'm reading into that too much.

I'll post later tonight. ::sigh::

 

[southernsky]

I don't like this guy. There's my $0.02. I agree with Nipple.

 

[NippleMuncher]

I don't know who this man is at the moment.

With each new piece of information, the more my original suspicions are confirmed. This guy is a jerk, incapable of independent thought, action, or culpability. He is controlling, and appears to be working on a threatening and manipulative behaviors as well. You'd be better of to get out before things escalate.

 

[SweetErika]

I don't know who this man is at the moment. He start spouting things from the tapes like he's always believed it and I end up getting quizzed on it later on so I too can "understand" everything. I'm not in undergrad lecture anymore or brainwashing 101. I've told him it's interesting subjects, but annoying to listen to audio CDs of rich people bragging about their success and how you can *almost* do the same thing, but only how they tell you to. He wants to be the best at everything he's interested in, but in the form of some kind of well paid/liked expert guru.

From this thread, it seems like he's been doing the same thing since March at least. So, maybe it's just not the moment, but this is who he actually is, or has come to be.

He sounds off, quite honestly.

How did you meet this dude?

 

[FurryFury]

If he is worth it, it may take a lot of listening and discussing to work this out.

I wish you luck.

 

[Javagirl]

Take my advice. DUMP HIM!

Dump his ass and move back home. He sounds like an insensitive, selfish asshole. You don't need this grief and do NOT think it's YOU!

I'd also suggest that you talk to a counselor about herpes (they have a lot of free female clinics--not sure where you live though?) and they may be able to help you with some of the physical issues you are having. Sorry, that's my public health background talking. You also need to remember to take care of yourself physically as well as emotionally. When you are diagnosed with a STD, it can be very traumatic and scary--please talk to someone (if you haven't done so already).

You seriously don't need this grief. I was in a relationship 6 yrs. too long with someoen who was selfish, self-absorbed and only cared about his own needs.

Do not think that you need to stay in a relationship just to prove your parents wrong. Believe me--been there, done that and my best friend was going to kidnap me and take me to Canada (where she now lives) to save me from making a huge mistake by marrying him.

I'm not sure how old you are but I know that I had a lot of clarity once I got out of my 20s and hit my 30s. Just remember that there are other caring men out there and also, remember a relationship is NOT based solely on sex. Also, do you want your partner to think of you as "one of the guys?"

Good luck and please dump his ass!!!

 

[PertPerth]

While everyone else focuses on your relationship - I'll

My pelvic floor has always locked up when I've had sex. (With myself or a partner ) Medically haven't been able to figure that out. I learned the hard way that hypoallergenic is an oyxmoron for my body composition. I researched a condition called vaginismus and know there's no definite test to diagnose anything.

Vaginismus, vestibulitis, vulval vestibulitis, vulvodynia...and I'm sure it's been called many other names too! Basically it's pain during penetration and in certain parts of the vulva. It can be treated - even totally cured in some cases so it's possible you could have a 'normal' sex life. I can't help but think that if nothing else, trying to fix your vaginal over-sensitivities will give you the extra self esteem and confidence you need (especially right now).

 

[skizbees]

A bit of an update. We did chat for a while last night. I'm still upset about it (My eyes can only get so red before I need to up my stock in Visine). He did not realize that I had "those feelings" about being shy about expressing sex. I got lectured for about 30 minutes on what I should be grateful for (what this had to do with our lack of intimacy, I'll never know.) his fears about him not being the best at his talents, and that he's worried that I'm not living up to my potential and he "has the way" to get me there if I follow him and want it.(Those pompous little tapes talking) So um...0 for 1 as far as relevancy.

He's shocked that I'm not happy and don't feel inspired to do as much as he's doing. I don't want his life or his never ending quest to find whatever he's looking for. Change cannot come overnight. He has this tactic of saying "Oh..are you still talking?" as he's talking about God knows what going on and on. I should use this on him, as I lost 30 minutes of my life sobbing into a pillow. We met in a yoga class for musicians. He's also expressed that if I walk away, he would accept it, but not really understand. I'm currently in two bands and occasionally write my own music. I rehearsed with one earlier today and had fun.

So Cliff notes:
Had a long talk.

He monopolized the conversation while I'm crying silently and only making short commentary.

I want to initiate sex, not get subtle reminders. He says "As long as it's massive amounts, I'm game.!" Ugh. How about let's see if I can last more than 5 minutes before declaring a marathon.

I know it's not really appropriate to yell " Shut the fuck up already. Can you not tell I don't want to talk to you right now?"

He is not Lord of The Expert Guru. You don't know it completely if you can't teach it to someone else.

We obviously need to sort out where this relationship is headed (again) before going between the sheets again.

 

[cloudy]

Honestly? I'd be running for the door so damn fast I'd break land speed records.

He sounds like a completely self-absorbed asshole. Run, do not walk.

 

[FurryFury]

I think your guy needs lessons in how to listen without thinking up his next argument. Many people do.

*HUG*

Thanks for coming back and telling us what's happened so far. I always appreciate that when the OP does that!

 

[SweetErika]

He's shocked that I'm not happy and don't feel inspired to do as much as he's doing. I don't want his life or his never ending quest to find whatever he's looking for. Change cannot come overnight. He has this tactic of saying "Oh..are you still talking?" as he's talking about God knows what going on and on. I should use this on him, as I lost 30 minutes of my life sobbing into a pillow. We met in a yoga class for musicians. He's also expressed that if I walk away, he would accept it, but not really understand. I'm currently in two bands and occasionally write my own music. I rehearsed with one earlier today and had fun.

So Cliff notes:
Had a long talk.

He monopolized the conversation while I'm crying silently and only making short commentary.

I want to initiate sex, not get subtle reminders. He says "As long as it's massive amounts, I'm game.!" Ugh. How about let's see if I can last more than 5 minutes before declaring a marathon.

I think the bold parts say it all, babe.

If he's okay with you ending the relationship, he's just not that into you. That doesn't surprise me, unfortunately - it sounds like the only person he's into is himself. It's not a reflection of your value or worth, at all.

You deserve better than a pompous ass who doesn't have his shit together or care about you. MUCH, MUCH better.

 

[NippleMuncher]

So Cliff notes:
Had a long talk.

He monopolized the conversation while I'm crying silently and only making short commentary.

I want to initiate sex, not get subtle reminders. He says "As long as it's massive amounts, I'm game.!" Ugh. How about let's see if I can last more than 5 minutes before declaring a marathon.

I know it's not really appropriate to yell " Shut the fuck up already. Can you not tell I don't want to talk to you right now?"

He is not Lord of The Expert Guru. You don't know it completely if you can't teach it to someone else.

We obviously need to sort out where this relationship is headed (again) before going between the sheets again.

Honey, your not listening to your own words. You're giving yourself your own answer, and it's exactly what everyone else has been telling you. This immature ass isn't worth your time or efforts. He does not care about you or for you, only what he can get from you. Getting away from him may be difficult, but it's in your best interests.

Please, go back and reread your own posts and see them from the eyes of a best friend - meaning someone has come to you with this problem. What would you tell them? Be honest.

 

[NorCalGirl]

Honestly? I'd be running for the door so damn fast I'd break land speed records.

He sounds like a completely self-absorbed asshole. Run, do not walk.

What Cloudy said, times 10.

I don't know anything about the medical part of this issue, and that's actually not the point, at least not from my standpoint. What you are describing is someone who is very self-absorbed, manipulative, and a Class A jerk. No woman needs this kind of a man.

However, this is a decision that you will have to make whenever you reach that breaking point where you simply have had enough of this poor treatment.

I was in a relationship years ago where my sex drive dropped off. I still loved my partner and he loved me, but I just wasn't in the mood very often. He didn't belittle me. Instead, he would massage me, sometimes for an hour, until I was aroused and ready to go. That was a resourceful man who wanted sex and wasn't afraid to work for it!

The way you described him as initiating sex by asking if you wanted to give him a blow job just floored me. Seriously, there are so many men out there who would be happy to have a woman to treat right. You don't need to settle! The best lovers are those whose own pleasure is closely tied with bringing their partner pleasure. If his idea of foreplay is to ask for a blow job, he's not a good lover. Period. And bad lovers make bad mates.

Okay - I've definitely gone way over my alloted 2 cents. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I think you already know what the ultimate outcome will be, but sometimes it's very hard to make that break.

 

[Noor]

I do not get a very good feeling about this man as your partner. He sounds like a lousy lover, which is not a good thing esp considering your medical issues.

Usually when women are with men for no understandable reason, one assumes it is because they are good in bed, but this guy isn't even that.

You basically are saying that he forces sex on you, no foreplay, no nothing, he just screws you and somehow his fucking is supposed to make you come?

Why are you with this guy exactly? Economic reasons? Pride?

His reliance on motivational speeches also concerns me.

As to how to initiate, well the first trick is actually wanting to have sex with the guy and you have very good reasons for not wanting to.

 

[SweetErika]

Usually when women are with men for no understandable reason, one assumes it is because they are good in bed, but this guy isn't even that.

I rarely assume people stay with their partner because they're good in bed.

I often assume or conclude it's because they have problems, like low self-esteem, a serious lack of confidence, or trouble with self-reliance/taking care of themselves. I mean, how often do you see someone who doesn't care for themselves with a truly caring partner and healthy relationship? Or an uncaring partner with someone who is healthy and good to themselves? When I think about it, I have trouble coming up with even one example of either of those scenarios.

And, honestly, I wonder if there's some of that going on in this case. If so, I hope skizbees cares about herself enough to get out and focus on repairing the things that are falling apart or broken, whether that's her sense of self, perspective on her sexual health, or something(s) else.

 

[Marisia]

I know it's not really appropriate to yell " Shut the fuck up already. Can you not tell I don't want to talk to you right now?"

He is not Lord of The Expert Guru. You don't know it completely if you can't teach it to someone else.

We obviously need to sort out where this relationship is headed (again) before going between the sheets again.

Somehow, I think it is completely appropriate to yell "shut the fuck up" to this man. It may be the only way he hears it.
This relationship doesn't seem like it has a good stable base to build on, yet alone sort out. You'd be best just walking away now. The pain will still be there, but with less wasted time on a such a self-centered man.
Good luck to you.

 

[PertPerth]

He did not realize that I had "those feelings" about being shy about expressing sex.

It's amazing how sometimes people can assume something or not know something like that - especially if you're in a relationship and having sex (or not, as the case may be )

I got lectured for about 30 minutes on what I should be grateful for.

I saw that one coming. He's the dominant partner in the relationship. He sees himself as a lot better than you are. I think he must have stopped himself short of saying "You should be grateful I give you the time of day".

He is not Lord of The Expert Guru. You don't know it completely if you can't teach it to someone else.

Sex/intimacy is something that you learn with your partner. It's impossible to be an expert on sex. Period. Each person is slightly different and should be treated as such. Skizbees - you deserve someone who realises that and will treat you with respect.

I want to initiate sex, not get subtle reminders. He says "As long as it's massive amounts, I'm game.!" Ugh. How about let's see if I can last more than 5 minutes before declaring a marathon.

Again just another example of him not listening to your needs.

I agree with others that he doesn't seem to be the guy for you. You need to be in the right mind-frame before this happens though. Make sure he understands why you're breaking up as best you can. Once you feel strong enough (and not before) then it's time to pack your bags. Leaving before your really ready will only leave you with a "what if I tried a bit harder?" feeling.

And most of all...keep looking after yourself.

 

[southernsky]

I think you ought to take a good hard look at why you find this man's behavior acceptable. With a therapist, if necessary.

 

[skizbees]

I know I'm not ready (or willing) at this point to end this relationship. No need to hold grudges over past actions. I'm going to make sure we both work through this rough time. I got him to open up about a few things. I'm learning that he's to go in for testing for a series of hormone panels and other things. I'm taking a break from hormonal BC for at least two cycles. So things will be slow and we will both be patient. He's reliant on all that motivational crap because he's not sure where he is spiritually, financially, or lately, emotionally. Grasping at straws maybe? He's afraid to confide in me at times, since I'm usually the quiet one and keep things bottled up, so he compensates (I guess) by yapping away. (point: we're horrible at communicating our own feelings when asking the other direct questions. Makes us both feel cornered and rather jumpy. I also don't like asking for help personally, but won't hesistate to help if asked.)

I moved with him to make a fresh start somewhere else. I prefer if everyone and everything else is settled and okay first, then I focus on myself. If back home, life will revert back to my parents trying to still parent me to prove wisdom of their ways and to constantly bring up anything I've not succeeded at personally. (They both had strict upbringings and passed it along and I naturally protest within reason and do like to keep them on their toes.)

We both attended a great costume party last night. I had a blast except for one guy yelling and swearing at the group I was sitting with and he spilled a drink on my hair and costume. He also found a stereo/tape deck and walked around blasting some loud "music" and sing-yelling along to it. He was roughed up later on by some party guests twice and then escorted out by a bouncer friend of ours dressed as vampire. Another person started knifing pieces of fruit in a punch bowl, playing with it and stuck it in the kitchen doorframe. I'm not sure what that was about . Some phone calls were made and I think everything got settled. (I'll find out Monday evening from the hosts directly.) I had some interesting dreams about the party and the varied guests.