Sex Between Mature Women and Older Teenage Boys

[Rolly]

Have any of the men here, (while in their older teenage years), had sex with a woman in her 30's ?
Please see the following news link; http://www.apbnews.com/safetycenter/family/2000/03/30/pedofems0330_01.html
In the article it is claimed that harm is done to the teenage male?
What are the opinions on this?
I understand this question, (from the female's perspective) if the roles are reversed, but I thought most teenage guys would love to be with an older women. Why is sex considered harmful to them?

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by Rolly:
In the article it is claimed that harm is done to the teenage male?
...
but I thought most teenage guys would love to be with an older women. Why is sex considered harmful to them?

I think your choice of 'claimed that harm is done' pretty much sums it up. IMHO that claim is PC psycho-babble.

Every situation is different, but as the article says, there is no one easier to seduce than an adolescent male. If there is 'force', whether physical or psychological, then there is likely to be harm done. Not physical harm, but in the way the boy's attitude towards sex if formed. i.e. If his 'initiation' was forced, then it's OK to force someone else.

Such a situation I think is much rarer than the article would have us believe. I think most of the boys involved with older women think of them as teachers rather than abusers. If the 'victim' doesn't think he's being 'victimized', He probably isn't.

(For the record, No I've never been with an older woman.)

 

[John1965]

It's not...The whole thing is a crock of crap. Like that teacher and the 13 year old a couple of years ago....They said she was perverting him. Yea right! That kid is scoring and high fiving his buddies and she goes to jail! She was disturbed in that case though. Having sex and falling in love with a 13 year old are two different worlds.

 

[Stump]

What a crock,

I was 15 when i lost my virginity to a 32 year old woman. We had sex 3-5 times a week for over a year. I suffered no ill effects at all. If anything, she made me a better lover. She taught me what a woman likes and how to please her. I wish i could see her again so i could thank her for the lessons

 

[Golden]

Me too Stump. Except she claimed 29 - though six years later someone else met her and she then claimed 32 ... I was 14 and 5 months ; and it was just for one magical week, but absolutely right, she taught me not all I know of course, but the absolutely key things - the old-fashioned notion that it is my duty as a guy to ensure that my partner's pleasure is my priority; and some neat ways to achieve this, and that the more my partner is enjoying sex, the more she is going to want to give in return ...all stuff not covered by playground talk, school sex ed lessons and the odd words dropped my way by my father ...

Y'all want to know more, there's a few refs in posts in Feb/March, and my only contribution to the erotica is a poem celebrating this as the the luckiest thing ever happened to me...called NOSE ....

And you ask Mrs G's opinion? She keeps telling friends she hopes to god the same thing happens to our sons, for the sake of their women! Now there's an endorsement for under-age sex!

Eve_of_Destruction are you there? Keep the faith girl!

 

[Gil]

Hi Jane,

I was 21, she was 29, does that count? It was a torrid affair and I'll always remember her (fondly).

You're right Golden, this seems a natural forum/thread for EOD to provide us a little insight. Deepest apologies for trying to sell your farm out from under you Eve. I was caught up in the passion of the moment...

 

[Hans]

The sex abuse recovery industry will always try to portray any sex experienced by someone under the age of 18 as traumatic or harmful. The fact that they can make these claims with straight faces amazes me. I know it is in their financial and political best interest to create as many "victims" as possible, but the fact that they seem to buy into thier own bullshit still amazes me. I guess its hard to convince the public of BS unless you yourself seem to believe it. Not everyone can see though BS, but many people can tell when someone knows they are lying.

I never had intercourse with an older woman as a teenager. The closest I came was with a 24 year old when I was 16. I was terribly attracted to her and she liked me too, only thought I was too young. Some kissing and hugging went on, but that was all (to my disappointment). Now the sex abuse industry types would try to tell you and me both that she abused me.

Human beings hit puberty at around age 12. As far as nature is concerned, that is around the age when we should be starting to have sex, or at least desiring sex. This is human nature, pure and simple. But the sex abuse industry would have you believe that to act on this nature is automatically harmful. It wasn't harmful for the generations of humans who came before us, what makes us different all of a sudden? We are no different, but convincing us otherwise puts money in their pocket, and makes people listen to them, giving them power.

Now that doesn't mean that someone under 18 can't be abused, or have a sexual experience that is negative, they can and do unfortunately. But it is not sex that makes it positive or negative, but the circumstances within with the sex exists.

If you're with an older woman who you like and she is nice enough to sleep with you, then the experience is likely to be a very happy one.

On the other hand if your step mother is manipulating you into sex that you don't want, then obviously it isn't going to be a happy time.

Human beings reach sexual maturity at puberty. After that point sex is a natural and normal part of life, even if our culture tries to deny and suppress it. The suppression of sexual desire is far more harmful to the person than any expression of sexual desire.

"</rant mode off>"

Hans

 

[Rolly]

Guys! This discussion should be bound and published in book form. There is a wealth of clear normal thinking here. After reading the news story, I was left very puzzled -- well just about everyone knows my history and point of view. Thank you all for your insights on this question. One other note I would like to mention; there is many very intelligent people posting here on Literotica. I have been reading several other postings that reflect on this concept; particularly near the end of "swimming to the shallow end" discussion. Weird Harold, Gil (... hi Gil), golden, Hans, have all made very valid points. Hans, I do not think you where ranting at all and have illuminated a dark taboo area with a common sense view. There does seem to be a general myth that all sex is harmful if engaged between an older person and an older teen. Keeping in mind the idea that the news is almost exclusively concerned with reporting sensationalism and controversy regarding sex stories, i.e.; the more shocking the better the sell. As a result, our society seems to be presented with only the damaging or bizarre stories. Could this only be, the one in a hundred thousand situations that is abusive? Golden's posting is remarkable! I looked at it then studied his words. He has stated his wife would like to see her sons taught by an older women. To me this makes perfect sense. Possibly many average people would agree if they understood what occurred with him. The fact is; in golden's life it was very beneficial - I also fall into the same category. I'm getting a little emotional on this postings, I hope it's coming out clear. Golden any chance you might elaborate on your ideas and life? I for one would like to hear more of your story.
... Jane

 

[Golden]

gosh Jane, I'm flattered by your interest, umm... well with nearly 300 posts on this site this year I've liberally sprayed my background, history, views etc all over the place ... wish I'd kept all the original postings in an editable form - straight down to the publishers eh? If I get time to do a considered piece ... I'll email you!

 

[Boo]

As a 30 something female I would add this:

I don't necessarily beleive that a 30 something female having sex with a teenage male would always, or in most cases, leave permenant damaging effects on the teenage young man. I do question, on a practical level, the "mature" woman" who would engage in that type of sexual play. Kids that age play in my yard all the time....talk to me about their crushes, how to get rid of acne, what is the most cool band, school, how uncool their parent's are etc....I think my fucking any one of them would be demonstrative of something seriously lacking on my part.

Boo

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

I would like to respond to this thread (did you think that I wouldn't?). Whenever I read or hear about older women/younger men relationships, esp. those involving teenage boys, the comments made by the men - even those who have never been with an older woman - are always positive. On the other hand... those made by women are, more likely than not, negative. And even someone like me... if I had a 17-year old daughter, and I knew she was having sex with the father of one of her friends, I would blow a gasket and call the cops on the bastard, I'm sure. But, somehow, when the sexes are reversed, it just doesn't seem to have the same horrible pedophilic connotations that a 38-year old man having sex with a 17-year old girl does.

I cannot tell you why I find young men so attractive, so very sexy. Is it because they are "forbidden fruit", and therefore should be totally off limits to me? Perhaps. Is it because my own teenage sons no longer rely on mom to fix all their problems the way they used to, or the fact that I see my husband only a few days a month? I don't know.

Do I feel like I have, in some way, harmed the boy I was with? No, I can honestly say with conviction I have not. He was 17 the first time we were together, he's now 19, and we still see each other - for sex - about once a month. He pursued ME, for months, before I gave in - and I do NOT regret giving in! Yes, it has changed my life in many ways, some of them good, some not so good. I am more confident now, I have more self-esteem than I have ever had. That may sound selfish, but if having sex with a younger man gave me the willpower to pull my life together, then I believe it's all for the good. And the young man in question seems to have a normal, healthy sex life outside my relationship with him, and is as emotionally mature as any other young man his age. I don't know what keeps drawing us together... it's as if some sort of radar goes off at the same time for both of us, because about the time when I feel this need to see him again, to be with him, he usually finds ME. And we have fun, we're sated both physically and emotionally for at least a few more weeks.

He was my first affair, my first lover, the first person to even kiss me, other than my husband, in the last 23 years. My current lover is 26 years old, and he has become my best friend and is very, very special to me. But... there seems to be this "bond" between me and the 19-year old that is very strong.

I don't know how long this affair will go on... I cannot foresee the future, no one can. It hasn't harmed my relationship with my husband, although it has made me see that there are problems in my marriage that, before the affair, I had refused to acknowlege.

I don't know what else to say except that I ACCEPT this affair for what it is: An affair with a much younger man. I don't feel the need to explain myself to others who do not agree with what I've done: Everyone makes choices their own choices, and this was mine. If the affair lasts another year, or even 10 years, I accept that, and will enjoy it for as long as it lasts.

Peace,
EOD

 

[Golden]

sometimes Eve_of_D, it feels so like you're a soulmate ... I really identified with your posting.

But don't you find yourself in an emotional trap as follows...? We don't explain our unusual relationships because most people we know would be doubters, critics or non-believers, and while these folks should just fuck off (what right have they to comment or judge?), yet at the same time, it is frustrating and even depressing not to be able to confide in even one's closest friends, because they would criticise, judge, etc ....

I'm afraid my criteria are pretty simple: if A & B have a relationship which makes them happy and doesn't make innocent other people unhapppy , then I pretty much don't have any right to comment on the age, sex, or nature of the relationship! Good for them, I say.

 

[Rolly]

Hi Eve,
I was going to send this to your e-mail, but changed my mind. Thank you for above posting. I understand. After reading your post my eyes where watering, I think you understand this. You know the feeling that you are a small boat out in the middle of an endless ocean. As another woman, I felt the emotional resonance between our similar situations, past to present. I'm not sure if you have read my narrative "Sunrise My Darling", and "sex with uncles" discussion, but if not, this will explain my above statements. Eve, I would like to talk to you more about this, it was one of the main reasons for me coming to Literotica.
Interesting your acceptance of a 18 year old male teenager having sex, but not your own daughter of the about the same age (17) . Possibly because you are her mother? I wonder if the father of her friend would not take better care of her than a boy of similar age? I think I understand your worry: is it one of the older man taking advantage of a younger girl? Will I have the same worries when/if I become a mother? Maybe. Then again I think I going to have some long discussion about sex and emotions with any future daughters or sons I bear. I'm not married so this will be a while off. In my case an older man taught me love and sex when I was 18. How would you view a possible sexual relationship that your daughter has with an older man one day before legal age as opposed to one day after? Do we let society dictate to us when we can have sex? I'm sure if she decides she would like to sleep with the older man, legal age or several days will not matter to her. What is she (daughter) deeply loves him (friends father)? I sense there is still some old taboos at work here. Who could she have sex with, that would be acceptable in your view? Is a teenage boy better? Would you prefer her to have no sex until marriage? Is this the moment when a mother's, daughter/son becomes an adult? Eve, I do not mean to (and I hoping I don't) sound at all disrespectful here and I am not being judgmental or critical of you in anyway. Please understand this, but your posting does raise some very interesting questions that possibly we should all think about. I'm sorry if I have become to personal with this discussion and I'm not prompting you to respond in particular way, be it politically correct or otherwise.
If it helps at all, I support your decision to have an affair with the younger male. By teaching him gentle emotional sex you have helped him and yourself and possibly some unknown late-teen female. I would say an 18 year old female or male is at or near the maturity level to experience sex. In the males case the state seems to think he is old enough to fight in war. Odd how easily this is accepted, but "wow", stay away from loving-sex it may hurt you. I sometimes wonder why we do not have fully sex classes that teach, kindness and sex. Well back to my sex with uncles and aunts discussion.

... Jane

 

[Golden]

Jane you wrote of Eve ...."By teaching him gentle emotional sex you have helped him and yourself and possibly some unknown late-teen female." This is exactly Mrs Golden's point - she identifies with that late-teen female. When she and I first made love she was not quite 16, and I was all of 17 and a bit, BUT - I'd already been taught by the aforementioned older woman.

Then, at 15/16 for about 2 years I'd had a girlfriend 2 years older than myself. I was 15 and she 17 when she lost her virginity to me, and we had a terrific sexual relationship while being a fairly classic think-we-are-head-over-heels teenage couple ... and it was obvious from the body language of our circle of friends that no one else was getting it on as well as we did, if at all .... until this girl went away to university at 18 and we drifted apart - it was really uncool for her to have a boyfriend back home 2 years younger!

So by the time Mrs G decided to give me her cherry, I may only have been 17 but at least had some idea what I was doing ...

Moreover my mother was a key influence; there was much that was wrong with her - an alcoholic and unreliable domestically; no wonder the marriage failed ... but to me she was always warm and affectionate and caring and looking back I can see she was probably a great lover.

She impressed upon my brother and myself from puberty that sex was for 2 not one, that men had specific obligations to ensure women enjoyed it etc ... Looking back I suspect she might have considered teaching us in practical terms; in fact, and of course this is where such things can so easily get messy and bad .... it was my stepfather who once "interfered" with me ... and I only recently found out, had also molested my brother and sister, and about which they remain somewhat traumatised. Whereas I am relaxed about what he did to me.

So Jane, have I said this to you before? I was immediately touched, impressed, inspired and moved by your tale when you first posted.
But you know of course you have been fantastically lucky; incest is, to me, not the issue; the main thing is that you were loved and treated beautifully by an older man who happened to be a relative; the moral objections of others are I suspect derived from the knowledge that all to often where we read of such relationships, whether inside or outside the family, the result has been trauma, tragedy, misery, abuse ... so I suspect it is just real hard for many people to accept that in fact the older/younger thing can be beautiful and beneficial, and regardless of whether the two are family members or not.

Um I seem to have rambled ... anyway, my wife's view is simple; she'd certainly be opposed to any family relationhip, e.g. if her sister took on the responsibility for example, but in principle, she'd like our sons to save the same sort of start I got!

oh and my mum died in 1977, so I can't ask her views now ...., I suspect she'd be a 2-hours a day literotica woman if she had lived into the internet age!

[This message has been edited by golden (edited 04-07-2000).]

 

[Jennifer Kaye]

I asked my husband about this issue and his response to me was that if the teenage boy was a willing participant than it is probably a load of crap that he would be psychologically harmed. Instead, the boy would likely be rejoicing at his sexual "luck" and be the envy of his friends if he told them about it.

My own thoughts pretty much echo those of my husband. If the teenage boy wants the sex, then there is likely nothing harmful that will come out of it. (Assuming he uses protection.

)

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Rolly - check out my last post in DCL's thread "where's the line"... though not only is the line one draws different for everyone, the same person may have a different line drawn for the sexes. I think a 17 year old woman who enters into a relationship with someone more than twice her age would become more apt to be in that relationship because of love, whereas her 35+ year old lover is more apt to be in that relationship because of lust... and for that reason, she will be manipulated much more so than her male peer who has sex with an older woman, which probably tends to be more of a lust/lust relationship. So for this reason (however whacked it may be), in the MAJORITY of cases, I think that a 17-year old girl could become hurt through a relationship with someone twice her age.

So here is where MY line is drawn, but even then, depending on the circumstances (the Mary Kay Letourneu case comes to mind), it may be acceptable to cross it:

Sex with someone less than half your age: The person should be at least 15 if a male, 18 if a female.

Golden, I know that affinity we have for each other, and it is because of these similar experiences we have shared... Thanks for helping me to come to terms with it, and a big YES on how alienating it can be! This isn't something I can easily share with anyone, and the one female friend I decided to confide in has betrayed my confidence to the point that you guys are the only people I can feel secure in confiding in. Thanks for being there!

EOD

 

[Hans]

I think the double standard for males and females is interesting. Even I get a gut reaction to the idea of a 16 or 17 year old girl being involved with a much older man.

The assumption being that the older, more experienced man is probably using her, taking advantage of her ignorance of sexual and romantic matters. Also if a 16 year old girl gets pregnant, it is a very big problem. As opposed to a 30 something woman getting pregnant. Still a problem, but not the kind that would ruin her life most likely.

Ultimately I don't really know what to say about this side of the issue. Every situation is different. We all know girls who have had their hearts broken by guys who only wanted sex from them. Maybe some of the women here were one of those girls once.

Women, particularly young women, tend to want more from a relationship than just sex. Young men on the other hand usually want sex first, and a relationship second. The interesting thing is, there are older women out there who don't want a relationship, but do want sex. Maybe they've been burned, or maybe they just don't want a relationship right then. For them a teenage guy is perfect because his main focus is sex too.

But when a teenage girl gets involved with an older man, the potential for emotional disaster is much greater. Women get attached when they sleep with someone. Men do too, but not like women. So imagine you've got a girl who is 17 and is dating a guy who is 28. He likes her, but doesn't love her. He does enjoy sleeping with her though. She on the other hand is deeply in love with him. This is a recipe for heartbreak. Even worse is when an older man tells a younger woman like this that he loves her so she will sleep with him.

Every situation and relationship is different. All I'm really saying is that teenage girls need to be careful who they get involved with, and need to be doubly careful when that person is much older than them. Many men will lie to a woman to get sex, and those who are like that might see a younger woman as simply an easier target. Not all men are like that though, only the scummy good for nothing kind.

Hans

 

[Golden]

Eve, Hans, agree with you both. Thinking about my sons and Mrs G's now infamous expressed wish that they get an older teacher ... what if they were girls? I doubt we'd be thinking it would be cool and sensible and practical to have them seduced by some 35 yr old guy ....

I think we'd just be hoping it was a guy their own age-ish, but who himself had been properly taught...? Double standard Hans? Yep, guilty over here.

Maybe, Eve, older woman / younger man becomes acceptable because we rationalise it as teacher/pupil?

Anyway - with you totally on the alienation bit ... what really pisses me off about myself is: I'll insist on my right to have the relationships which suit my life and the people around me and refuse to be bound by social rules and stereotypes ... and then I go and spoil all my attempts to be a grown-up with an adolescent craving for approval! I've confided in 2 or 3 people and they all disapprove ... lost at least one really good friend who simply couldn't accept the situation.

That's why I need you guys out there!

[This message has been edited by golden (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

[Hurley_International]

Why cant I get an older woman?
seems like i miss out on all the fun!

 

[Slut_boy]

Oh Fuck,

I was at first going to respond to what Golden had said to the effect that "this is why he needs us". My first reaction was to question whether or not the reinforcement of somebody elses opinion ought to be important. I was, I suppose, going to slate the idea initially.

But now that I have thought about what Golden had said a little more rationally, I can see that other people's opinions are not only important but that they are essential. I am not saying that their approval is essential - just that their opinion is crucial because part of being human implies being gregarious. To think for a minute that we can isolate ourselves (like islands) can never be a truism.

It just seems such a pity that when we sometimes find the strength to confide in people (like Golden tried to do) then we so often run the risk of losing their friendship. Here's the paradox: we confide in them because we regard them as special to us - yet that very special relationship is put at risk by doing so.

That is why I lose my mind so often. That is why I lose faith in people so very often. That is why I question authenticity all the time. That is why I can't help wondering what the fuck this is all about. That is why I end up screaming at myself.

 

[Slut_boy]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get so melodramatic: still, Golden, don't you question humanity when the only people you can truly confide in are us, a nameless, faceless bunch of virtual associates?

*slut_boy laughs at himself* Because, I question that all the time. I confide more in you lot than I do in anybody else.

 

[Greg Lee Hunt]

This thread has very personal meaning for me. I was a late bloomer. I didn't have my first sexual experience until late in my senior year of high school. For whatever reason, I found my self sexually attracted to the woman who had been my "Literature" teacher in my senior year in high school. I found myself daydreaming in class and masturbating at home thinking about her. Miss Smthye (not her real name) was a in her early forties and a recent widow. She was attractive and voluptuous.

To make a long story short. Miss Smythe obviously noticed something that attracted her to an eighteen year old. She invited me to her home. She seduced me and taught me how to make love to a woman. She also pleasured me beyond my wildest expectations. That was almost thirty-five years ago. Our sexual relationship continued beyond the end of the school year and throughout the summer before I went away to college. I don't believe that I was psychologically or physically harmed by that affair.

Quite frankly, I believe that being thoroughly and patiently taught about sex by an older woman relieved a lot of my concerns about 'performance' and made me a better partner for subsequent lovers.

[This message has been edited by Greg Lee Hunt (edited 04-09-2000).]

 

[Golden]

Originally posted by slut_boy:
a nameless, faceless bunch of virtual associates?

that's what I used to think you all were; But now, I find i'm developing meaningful online relationships with some of you; personality and individuality comes out maybe quicker in this anonymous world than it would if we all met at a drinks party and had 3 hours of polite conversation about, the weather, education, the trouble with kids today, why the Bears/Giants/DoDgers/United/City are pants at soccer/baseball/hockey, etc

Either that or I'm going nuts! No, the biggest problem is, there's a number of you out there I'd really like to spend time with, not necessarily sexual time either - just time sipping beer and talking while sharing the same sunset. You know, the old-fashioned human interaction stuff you read about in books ....

off to bed before I get maudlin!

Mind you, there's also a few of you on this list I would just love to fuck - and then we do the gazing at the sunset and talking stuff ...

[girls, y'all know who you are by now? he he]




[This message has been edited by golden (edited 04-09-2000).]

 

[Greyghost]

rolly, well im 30 now and i love older women always have always will, there is just something about it but i say if you like older women and they dont have a problem with it then the hell with everybody that does, i married a women 4 years older than me and my brother is going to marry a woman 9 years older than him but if your happy the hell with everybody else. but thats just my view and i have been wrong before.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

I have taken the X-Files oath: Trust no one. But here on the BB, I know that you will not divulge anything to my boss or my family about this... Cause you don't know them. And yet, just like a very good friend, you tell it to me straight and give very good advice. What would I do without you guys?

On a more serious note: Hurley, Dear... You can have me anytime

And I finally have a photo showing my face uploaded onto my computer, and as soon as I have some free time I'll email it to you.