Sex Between Mature Women and Older Teenage Boys

[Bversteegh]

well this is my first time on this board so, this is a very interesting subject. because currently i am having sex with older woman. i dont believe this is harmfull. it is rather wierd becuase i feel i should be sorta in my own age group but its just so fun. wheather i love her or not. i a way i do. she is a great lady and the whole neighbor hood loves her, but i believe its just comforting her that she has someone to keep her company.

 

[Golden]

photo of face, EOD ? - hey one for me too please, soul-sister! So I know what these youngsters are getting so see close up!

 

[Rolly]

The discussion has brought forth several very interesting points of view. Thank you to the young gentleman who posted, stating he was in a relationship with a more mature woman. Good to hear that there has been no harm done to him and he is happy.
I keep going back to the idea that if mature teenage men, (and we are not discussing children here) are allowed and accepted to exercise their early sexuality so should females. Above it was posted that males are ready by 15 and females by 18, this is an interesting idea considering women mature early than men, particularly socially. No one is going to agree that males and females are the same or should be treated the same. I have never accepted this idea. What I would like to point out is the female teenage sex drive is just as intense or more intense that the males. It needs an outlet. Sure a father is more than willing to have his sons trained in sex, love and emotions by a more mature women, but if they where daughters, it's a different story. This is understandable to me - protection of offspring is a powerful desire.
Question is then what outlet is acceptable?
Safety is a great concern with the females first experience of sex and love.
Is a mature teenage woman really safe with the male of the same age?
Is this the best introduction to emotional loving sex. Again I go back to the discussion "Virginity loss how was it girls" (and guys); to see it is not that satisfying and in some cases not all that safe.
After my narrative was posted I started to receive many e-mails, mostly from men. I was a bit puzzled, in as I had hoped to address my point to other young women. In reading the letters from the men (and there was many) I was expecting to see lurid discussions of sex -- behold, no so. The letters where filled with thanks and true emotions -- kind emotions. My point being, that the men where not callous or lewd, or sexual. The mythical male beast was not there. To be honest I was a bit surprised myself. Sure men have a strong sex drives and could hurt young women. The worst cases I believe are the isolated cases, championed by the media for reasons of publicity. It seems most men, particularly family men are very understanding and sensitive people - I bet that fits the average male reading this BB at Literotica.
Well why not let the mature teenage daughter experience love with him?
Why not let that teenage daughter go to Mr. Smith up the street and find out about life?
My guess is that she is safer there than with the teenage son.
Hands up how many older men think they could do a good job and a proper job of teaching the first touches of early emotional sex to a young woman?
How many would know how to stretch the hymens and not cause pain; how to know when there is trouble; how to deal with the outpouring of emotions after intercourse; how not to get her pregnant - the list goes on and on and on. Again this is not a job for teenage boys; it is a job for man. This all sounds so strange, but if it happened, I would think the incidents of STD would drop and the number of unwanted pregnancies would drop. In my other discussions I suggested this sensitive job be handed over to uncles (or aunts with the males).

Maybe this should be expanded to included family friends: Projecting 20 years into the future; I say to my husband; Bill, I want your best friend Jim, to sleep with our 18 year old daughter and teacher her love. I have noticed she likes him and he has been giving her extra attention. Bill, it is getting near her time, she is ready. If Jim does it, we know where she has been and with whom she as been.
Is Jim now likely to impregnate her or hurt her? Not likely ( most likely would not have anyway). An interesting statistic here is that a large number of teenage pregnancies are caused by men greater than 25, who then abandon us. The friend is known to the family (a known entity), with a behavior patter that is understood and a history to be used as a guide.

Please do not laugh to much here, this was posted as a true occurrence.

I might be missing the real concern that the main fear in all this is the older man becoming so bonded to the young female that he can not leave her -- the Lolita Story. In the above scenario what if Jim was married, would his wife object? Would Jim object? What do the men think about this?

Today's solution is to let what happens happen, with the average experience less than satisfying. In Naomi Wolf's book, "Promiscuities", she tells the story of the young girl so desperate to shed her virginity that she picked anyone who would sleep with her.

"From a comment I sent out in an e-mail regarding the above"

>I think she cheated her self out of a true loving experience by playing male roulette, not to mention that her safety was compromised. It is not all her fault and I'm not being critical here. There was nothing else for her, I understand where she stood. One could say she needed to be celibate, yes but this is not natural, she wanted to have loving sex. I know and understand what she needed -- It was close loving-sexual contact. It was her time, but she cheated herself out of the love component and missed much. This I state with retrospect... at the time I may have made the same mistake.

This idea can be applied equally to young males. I think I may have learned that during my time at Literotica. Greg Lee Hunt’s story is a classic. In a few words he completes my augment admirably. Most amazing it was also 35 years ago -- before I was here.

Eve, I understand you and agree (thanks for posting …I like you). I think almost all young women are looking for love in the first relationship. As we know… women tightly couple sex and love. Where they go for this "first time" is my concern.

Hans, your idea is the same as Eve’s -- young women are looking for love with sex. On your concern that the older males will take advantage of the young women; I wonder if that is a generality or just a myth? The potential is definitely there, but then so is the potential for harm to the young males by the mature woman. Is it because of the perceived vulnerability of young women that the concern is unbalanced. Should we not be careful with teens no matter what sex they are? I would like to understand that difference better. Again I would like to reiterate, I think it is a sophism to believe the teenage female is safer with the teenage male and that he will care for her. She definitely is at risk with any random sexual encounters she might engage in, so maybe it is best to orchestrate this occurrence, rather than letting blind luck take its path.

I would like to hear others opinions on these questions.

In reflection … Jane

 

[Golden]

Jane I'm confused... if it is true that young women mostly want sex and love together in their first relationship; and true that most teenage pregnancies are with guys over 25 who then disappear ... then while I'd love to think older men are perfect choices to "teach" young women the joys of sex (I'm up for it, he,her) how can it in reality be a good idea to encourage it?
Rather, your argument seems to reinforce my earlier view that while older woman-younger man is generally seen as cool all round, the reverse is generally taboo. Your own experience was obviously wonderful, but whereas many of the guys on this site had similar experiences to mine, I can't recall any of the girls writing about an experience comparable to yours, either joyful or painful...

 

[Gil]

Jane (hi Jane), Golden, Slut_boy, EOD,

I am absolutely fascinated by your remarks (In a very good sense). Also, I think Hans made an absolutely essential point regarding this discussion i.e., every situation and every relationship is unique!

This is important. While we all look for similiarities, common ground and approval when discussing our attitudes and opinions, there will always be differences. No two set of circumstances are 'exactly' the same.

When we try to overlay our own experience on top of another's, there's a very good chance for misunderstanding. We will sometimes miss the 'key' issue the other person is trying to convey.

Which brings me to my main point (At last, you all say...breathing a sigh of relief.) In spite of our differences, true ACCEPTANCE of another person is the key to friendship and possibly, eventual understanding.

If we can really accept a person just the way they are, without nescessarily approving of everything they do or say, then everything WILL, eventually work out.

My real friends understand that everyone and every relationship are unique; are accepting versus approving and are generally non-judgemental, while expressing differences of opinion. This is because we care about each other and can agree to disagree.

Does this apply to every asshole I meet? NO!

Do I have a lot of real friends?
NO!

Am I starting to ramble?
YES!

 

[Rolly]

Hi golden,
You are correct and perceptive, there is a contrasting duality in my statements. Young women and mature men are mutually attracted together and there are risks involved with this coupling. My statement about pregnancies was included to illustrate and add caution to my ideals of teaching mature female teens about love. There are dangers (I state the obvious). The question is who are these over 25 year old males that are impregnating the young females. It sure is not their uncles or for the most part any family friend. It could be a small group who do understand the young woman's desire for love and sex and " do not care about them in the least". This is just the type that should be avoided. I am advocating not just sex, but a full relationship with the full spectrum of emotions. The idea is as much about emotional grow as it is about physical sex. The word emotional mentor comes to mind. My guess is that it is not other fathers or responsible men that are causing these pregnancies (of course responsible men would not be responsible if the impregnated young women). But in fact this is the group that should be the young woman's guide into the mature world of love and sex. Gee, what a strange idea, respectable upstanding men teaching young women about love. You golden would do a superb job at all this, (do you have any nieces? -- a naughty smile from Jane).
In one discussion I stated the family was the safest place for this instruction - can this be safely expanded to include family social orbit, for those who do not approve of uncle and aunt incest?
|Golden, possibly we do not hear from other young women having good experiences, because there are so few. Again please read though the virginity loss discussion; the women post a half dozen and the men posted several dozen. More men may frequent Literotica, also I never breathed a word of my virginity loss for five years, to anyone -- this is typical.

Gil, (I'm smiling here ... I'll be your real friend) several others have pointed out to me, your same thoughts. I need to think about your words a little more, there is much wisdom in them. I do see your reasoning that all relationships are unique and different. What applies to one couple does not apply to another. I think what you are saying is; happiness is where you find it, be it with an uncle or aunt anyone else and you can not fit this into a recipe. Another writer has pointed out I'm opening Pandora's box with my ideas and has very similar statements to me, as you have. I tend to agree. My ideas do run counter to the norm of society. I would like to keep an open mind that I maybe totally wrong here and my time with my uncle was an aberration to the norm - well it was, I know that. But then what is normal? And if it was good who cares. What I do see and hear is many unhappy young women and sometimes young men. I'm questioning whether there isn't a better way in the beginning of one's sex life. Also I hope any points I make are by reasonable argument, no matter how unconventional. I don't think anyone is swayed by ranting or preaching. Gil, I work with people all day long in a setting where they need help. I think about this often. I know I have been biased by my experience with my uncle, but like any other human that is how my opinions and ideas are form --also by discussing ones ideas in a give and take situation.

Maybe a summary of my thoughts would help here - this is a complicated discussion with few rights or wrongs;

What I would like all to consider is having the mature adolescent taught love and sex by someone who is older and wiser, ignoring all the social taboos. The mentor can be an aunt, uncle, close family friend - someone known to the family and trusted. Someone the younger person would normally be attracted to.
The purpose being to help the mature teen though the difficult first touches of emotional sex.
We have seen several confessions right here on the BB that this idea does work. I know for every good experience that we could find a disturbing one and argue it doesn't matter if there was a mentor or not. Could this be a reason to be more up front with the whole business and have it directed by the family? I'm also troubled by the thought that adolescent women have a limited acceptable path for their emotion sexual expressions and end up in desperate situations.

One only has to read though the virginity loss discussion to see the random do it yourself method does not work well. Once again I only consider myself luck, that I did have a good experience. Could it all boil down to; "Come on older people look after the younger ones and forget these sex , emotional and love taboos."

At this point I'm going to sit back and just listen to others on the idea.

In high school I would never talk in class or discuss anything, but was the opposite in college. Ohh, growing up... it wasn't all that bad.

Warm smile and love to all ... Jane

 

[Golden]

Rolly wrote "You golden would do a superb job at all this"

oohh blushes; Jane you're very sweet ... you must have recalled my writing a few weeks ago about the time Mrs G (pre acquiring the Mrs G status) planned and arranged for me to be the initiator of a school friend? (My niece is 19 and on the third boyfriend at least ... despite coming from a fundamentalist Christian background her parents seem happy for Laura to come and stay with us with BF and there's only one spare room ... she's beyond my help! And anyway I don't actually find her attractive... kind of necessary!)

I wholehearteldy agree with your view, that society would be better for a societal change in attitude to older/younger, and that it should be poossible to make it acceptable for older man / younger woman.

I just worry about making it really work; you yourself say young women need not just sex education but emotional support ... it's going to be an unmarried man or a divorcee, then 'cos with a wife and a family (and presumably a job) a weekly meeting and some phone calls in between may be all that the guy can manage - sounds as if that's about what EOD makes time for in her reverse situation .... but would a teenage girl need more contact and support than that?

 

[Guest]

I only started reading this page to see how quickly eod turned up. you took longer than I expected eve. I'm disappointed.

only teasing.

here are my stories...

1/ 17 years old... working in an office... christine is 26 and has a big tough 30 year old boyfriend. somehow though we end up in bed after a wild party (me and christine... not the big tough 30 year old boyfriend). no intercourse but seriously HEAVY petting. the next day I can't stop grinning. such a turn-on.

2/ 26 years old... my 44 year-old hippy-chick colleague pretty much drags me to bed. she's tall, beautiful & skinny w/ waist-length burgundy hair. (she tells me that she once did the Marianne Faithful confectionary-sex thing for real - woah!!!) her marriage is a sham, she says. I see, I say (and I'm thinking... do you think I NEED excuses? I'm already convinced... I want this so bad). we spend one evening fucking in every position we can think of or remember. one night only... then back to reality. months of fantasy material though.

I guess I just love women... young or old (well... not THAT old). age isn't an issue if somebody seems sexy to YOU. (don't mean if they're underage obviously.)

don't like this double standard you've got though. when I was at school... the girls were far more sensible and mature by 17 than the boys were. somehow though - if I go out w/ a 17 year-old I'm a perv but if you do it w/ a teenage boy it means you're empowered? thought this was the 21st century. doesn't sound like equality to me.

 

[Rolly]

Here is a bit of information (see the link to CNN news below) that might reinforce the idea that teenage adolescents need emotional and sexual guidance. Note; I'm surprised at the ages.
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9910/21/suburban.syphilis.01/

My views and ideas could be interpreted as being promiscuous, instead what I'm suggesting is a safe outlet for the strong adolescent libido. The following story is not all that surprising. When left with no guidance "The Lord of The Flies" syndrome tends to initiate. Your thoughts on this?

And yes "golden" time management is a problem. I have no doubt that being a mentor is hard work. I know I called my uncle numerous times just to hear his voice and chit chat -- but then he was my friend also and friendship is the start.

Roger... the double standard is there and is a concern for me also. Please read my post narrative discussion under "sex with uncles" discussion for my perspective on a young women's sex drive and it's acceptance in society.

Question; Does a mother accept her sons masturbation as normal, as readily as a father accept his daughters masturbation?

... Jane

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

Wow. This post has really gone in so many directions, I don't know what to reply to first. Jane, I know, from all your previous discussions on this subject, that you find the double standard that Golden, Hans, and I have adopted to be wrong. But even if this were not such an ethical and moral taboo, I think that a lot has to do with how most men would be afraid to "seduce" the niece, neighbor, etc., for fear of being branded a pervert. But, you're right about the double standard, it's just that society looks down on any man who would take advantage of a young woman half his age. Whereas, many young men dream of being taken advantage of by a much more mature woman... and when it happens, not much is said about it - maybe high 5's from his friends, but that's about it.

I'm sorry, Jane, but it (teenage girls being sexually awakened by men twice their age) just doesn't look like it will be a common occurance any time soon. Like Gil said, though, no two people are going to have the same sexual experiences, and if they did, their reactions to each situation would probably differ greatly. It sounds like the warm sexual awakening you received from your uncle would definitely be the exception, not the rule.

BTW... What I told my sons about masturbation when they were very young still applies today: It is definitely not a bad thing, but it is a very private thing. If you are by yourself, then by all means, feel free to masturbate... but please, do it privately and quietly, either in the bathroom with the door locked, or in your bedroom.

I just wish now that I would have added, "But when you get older and decide that you are ready to have sex, your partner might like to watch you do it!"

Peace,
Eve of Destruction

 

[Rolly]

Hi Eve; I do not consider, Golden, Hans, or your position or statements on the subject wrong. Actually I greatly respect all your inputs and listen to it with much reflection. Eve, I believe you to be a wise and thoughtful person, with an interesting and amazing range of human experience. Far from me to say your opinion is wrong, you are more mature and a parent. I on the other hand have had no children. Interesting golden's main concern was with a lack of time to become the male mentor (will he teach? I kinda like him.... frisky Jane smile).

Mostly I see a need to help and change the way we address the concerns of first sex. Note, I'm not referring to a one night stand with a young woman, this has the opposite results. By pointing out conflicts and double standard with young women, I seemed to have inadvertently championed older men's interests . What I suggest is against the accepted norm of society and is sexually rebellious. As such I expect to have many different views presented (a way to sharpen and polish one's thoughts and ideas?). In my own thoughts I have many conflicts and opposition about the question. I ask many questions to gather others views - looking for the "devils advocate". To be honest there is no one correct way to handle the question of sexual mentor, but in average mentoring maybe better than random non-loving copulation. Several very intelligent people (Gil, Neil ) have suggest that each situation is too unique to apply any systematic solution for sexual guidance.

Regarding the double standard, I see it and mostly understand it, but my acceptance of it is mediocre. I'm stuck on the idea that a young woman needs help and guidance and is severely criticized when seeking the older man that can give this assistance. I see all the taboos in place and understand why and how the limits are set, but just disagree. I do realize the potential for abuse. I also see the problems with a teenage boy making love to her. My concern is not to strive for equality, just help. Eve, how do we allow a young women to safely satisfy her early loving-sexual emotional cravings? Where is our safe outlet? I don't ask these questions in a personal challenging way - I honestly would like to discuss it.

Regarding mentors; here is an news article about the aspects of such. I just found this today; note the last statement in the article.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/children/04/13/health.adolescents.reut/index.html

Expand this idea with regards to sex and we are close to my thoughts.

One last question for you Eve; has the young man whom you love, ever express a thank you and can you see the positive benefits of your love to him (above you listed your benefits)? I would bet his are immense -possibly to the point he does not have to tell his friends about your shared love. If so, he has grown enormously in your loving care. Will this be passed on? Will he understand and treat the idea of love and sex better? My guess is yes.

Eve, I do agree with you; societies taboos will not change rapidly -- they never do. Lets still chat about it, we all might learn something and pass it on. I like your method of handling masturbation it seems very health and sound. Would it be the same for a daughter?

Here is a slightly different question; If a young girl is raped and would like to reestablish a normal sex life again -- is the best and most loving person to sleep with her a mentor, an uncle or even a father? Would the normal love she has for them help her transfer the negative emotions of a trauma, to ones of love? Could the physical emotional love of a family member re-establish her normal pattern of loving-sex, from violent hateful sex? Who would have the power to save her? Who would she trust the most?

... Jane, respectively returning to listen mode

 

[Rolly]

One interesting note to add to this discussion; Just in the last week I have received three letters from different people (men) who have had a sexual love bond with an aunt (some current, others in the past). It may only be coincidence that I have had this simultaneous reception of similar letters or is it possibly trigger by the discussion? What truly amazes me is the amount of love and the intense emotions the individuals feel and write about. The main concern or discussion is not about sex but about love, care and attention to the other person. I can not disclose any information in a private e-mail, but it seems to be a theme that is repeated and one can almost physically feel the emotions from the letters. An aunt with a nephew appears to be a mentoring process, one that seems to have had a beneficial effect on the individuals. I understand the hesitation that one has to discuss their actions and suspect that this is only a very small sampling of the general public. Rather than being unnatural, this type of sex seems to be very intimate and has helped the adolescent male. The ages of the participants have not been disclosed to me, (other than one couple stated they were both adults - never to late to learn?) but by implied meaning, I understand the males where mature and of legal age. In all cases the writer was a man and had nothing but exemplary reports about the liaison, with no signs or accounts of abuse or harm. Of course this is just a few individuals and by no way a full cross sampling, but it is an indication of what happens out there.

Several weeks ago I received a note from a women who had been sexually assaulted. It was very short and to the point. In it she stated she found incestuous love had help her. Hence this is why I had posted the question above.
The more I role these questions around in my mind, the more I think that an older trusted person as a love/sex guide is a good idea. This seems to be emerging as an important idea to me, rather than incestuous love not being as taboo as we all think.

... Jane

 

[Ezzy]

I think the main points that have shown on this thread are all relevent.
I was seduced a little short of my 16 birthday,by a woman of 32,she taught me more in a short time than my next three girlfriends put together.But I do have a regret about the relationship,my son who is now in his twenties has no concept (that I know of) that the friend of the family (me) is actually his dad.I had to move away from the area for other reasons when he was about 6-7 but even at that stage I could see so much of myself in him.
The teaching aspects of older/younger relationships,I think we are mostly in aggreement with.It is so much easier to learn from the experienced than to fumble around with the inexperienced.The emotional side is the one that I think causes the most conflict in me,I find Im stuck with a foot firmly in both camps.





EZ

 

[THX1138]

I think I understand what Gil was trying to tell us all

Was thinking about Rolly again after the lasher post, and found this in the vaults here. I thought this was an interesting thread. Actually had an older woman, teach me for the first time. I was big for my age and she was ready to show me. Never forget it.

 

[Guest]

Damn Han's you got it

The sex abuse recovery industry will always try to portray any sex experienced by someone under the age of 18 as traumatic or harmful. The fact that they can make these claims with straight faces amazes me. I know it is in their financial and political best interest to create as many "victims" as possible, but the fact that they seem to buy into thier own bullshit still amazes me. I guess its hard to convince the public of BS unless you yourself seem to believe it. Not everyone can see though BS, but many people can tell when someone knows they are lying.

I never had intercourse with an older woman as a teenager. The closest I came was with a 24 year old when I was 16. I was terribly attracted to her and she liked me too, only thought I was too young. Some kissing and hugging went on, but that was all (to my disappointment). Now the sex abuse industry types would try to tell you and me both that she abused me.

Human beings hit puberty at around age 12. As far as nature is concerned, that is around the age when we should be starting to have sex, or at least desiring sex. This is human nature, pure and simple. But the sex abuse industry would have you believe that to act on this nature is automatically harmful. It wasn't harmful for the generations of humans who came before us, what makes us different all of a sudden? We are no different, but convincing us otherwise puts money in their pocket, and makes people listen to them, giving them power.

Now that doesn't mean that someone under 18 can't be abused, or have a sexual experience that is negative, they can and do unfortunately. But it is not sex that makes it positive or negative, but the circumstances within with the sex exists.

If you're with an older woman who you like and she is nice enough to sleep with you, then the experience is likely to be a very happy one.

On the other hand if your step mother is manipulating you into sex that you don't want, then obviously it isn't going to be a happy time.

Human beings reach sexual maturity at puberty. After that point sex is a natural and normal part of life, even if our culture tries to deny and suppress it. The suppression of sexual desire is far more harmful to the person than any expression of sexual desire.

"</rant mode off>"

Hans

This is a bit of a harsh view point. Could it be correct?

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

I can't believe somebody resurrected this old thing!

But now i'm wondering: Where's Golden, Gil, and Rolly? I miss you guys! I was gone for months and months, and now I come back and all the old familiar names are gone. I came back to the fold, you guys can too!

 

[nasty]

I'm 22. If I could get a nice looking woman in their early 30's,(or maybe even 40's) SO BE IT!!!!!! NO PROBLEM!!!!!!

 

[Weird Harold]

I can't believe somebody resurrected this old thing!

But now i'm wondering: Where's Golden, Gil, and Rolly? I miss you guys! I was gone for months and months, and now I come back and all the old familiar names are gone. I came back to the fold, you guys can too!

Rolly went back to Hawaii last winter (november or so.) She said she was not going to be back on the web for about 18 months, so that wwould make it April or May 2002 before she's expected back here -- if she even remembers where we are.

Golden still drops in every month or so, but I haven't seen anything from Gil in ages.

 

[Eve_of_destruction]

I'm going to quit using Google, I think I'll have much better luck with WH.

Is there ANYTHING you don't know, Harold?!!

 

[Weird Harold]

I'm going to quit using Google, I think I'll have much better luck with WH.

Is there ANYTHING you don't know, Harold?!!

There are lots of things I don't know, but very few things I don't have an opinion about.

 

[*Lazer*]

Some things are better left buried.

I think someone on this board is really bored or something. To bring up this and the K9 subject is just too odd. If you are looking to start discord for your own putrid amusement you are going to be dissapointed. You are boring beyound belief

 

[TN_Vixen]

Lazer

I disagree with your opinion about resurrecting this thread. I enjoyed reading the opinions in this one and actually have some experience with dating younger men.

My best friend dated a 17 year old boy when she was 27. Turned out that she later learned he was a virgin at the time... I knew that the relationship wasn't going to last and felt that since he absolutely worshipped her that she was doing him more of a disfavor than a favor. I was of the opinion that he would spend the rest of his life looking for that type of woman/sex.

 

[*Lazer*]

You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I just look at the timing of this have a good idea what the real intent was behind it. Your friend was right in observing the letter of the law. I am sure the kid's mother is thankful to her.

 

[Guest]

Hey, im 19 and have beenwith 3 older women 2 in there 40's and one mid 30's
m still involved with one of the 40yr olds we get together 2-3 times week
its amazing older women are som much better!

Lancslad19@lliterotica.org

 

[Guest]

Re: Some things are better left buried.

I think someone on this board is really bored or something. To bring up this and the K9 subject is just too odd. If you are looking to start discord for your own putrid amusement you are going to be dissapointed. You are boring beyound belief

Lazer just what is your problem with this thread? This is a great topic and was posted before you registered on this web site.