September 11th losses -- the numbers are higher than you think

[BustyTheClown]

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[Aquila]

can't properly form words right now.. just want to reach through screen and strangle you. will get back to you later with reasoned non murderous comment.

 

[BustyTheClown]

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[Guest]

May the fucking arabs feel the wrath

I will personally be taking part in demolishing them

Can't wait

 

[BustyTheClown]

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[Aquila]

Yeah. Boo-fucking-hoo, America. We had it so bad on that one day...Wake the fuck up!

Oooooooooo kay, Ive taken a deep breath, counted to ten..

Now..

While I could have sympathized and maybe even supported this article to some degree, that last comment made by you, the author of this thread, is most assuradly the easiest way to loose any sympathetic or intellectual capitol you, may or may not have wanted to accrue.

With that one sentence you discredit yourself down to someone who just wanted to somehow imprecate that america had it coming..

Now personally, Im sorry there where civilian cassulties, collateral damage is not something the military strives to do. however in a war zone, there is only two people.. the ones wearing your uniform and the enemy. These people where citizens of a declared enemy, and in a war zone. Their loss of life is reprehensible, however so is the loss of life that america suffered at the hands of people who governed and where supported by the very people that fled during the war.

 

[Problem Child]

Busty, how many died?

Is it 1,300 or 8,000? Was it 20,000? How many died from U.S. bombs? How scientific are these estimates? Or are they just eduated guesses?

How many would the Taliban have killed over the next several years if left in power?

How many more Americans and others would Al-Queda killed if not rooted out and hunted down?

Is Afghanistan at least a little better off now than they were with the Taliban? Don't they have at least a marginal chance at developing some form of government other than total fundamentalist dictatorship?

Should we have left a regime in power that brutalizes its women and gives them absolutely NO rights, not even the right to show their faces in public? Should we have left a regime in power that kills its own citizens in the middle of soccer feilds as a form of public entertainment? A regime that even banned music?

I am certainly sorry there were civilian deaths in the war to liberate Afghanistan.

Please explain what we should have done differently in response to 9/11.

I'd really like to know.

 

[takingchances42]

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[Guest]

 

[Guest]

May the fucking arabs feel the wrath

I will personally be taking part in demolishing them

Can't wait

You poor misguided idiot. It is people like you, who cause me to look at the world and wonder if comming down from the trees was really the right thing to do in the first place.

 

[Aquila]

Might I also add that these people you feel are more precious to you than the lives of your countrymen. would have you stoned to death for daring to appear in public like that AV of yours? (I doubt its you, but the point is made).

 

[Guest]

 

[modest mouse]

Problem Child can wisecrack away but damned if he doesnt nail the shit ont he head when it needs to be done. Good to see you around after you were off doing better stuff, I'm sure.

 

[Problem Child]

Problem Child can wisecrack away but damned if he doesnt nail the shit ont he head when it needs to be done. Good to see you around after you were off doing better stuff, I'm sure.

thnx bro. ur cool too.some day i cook curry chickn for u.

burns the a$$whole,,,, but worth it.

 

[BustyTheClown]

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[Guest]

 

[Aquila]

In my book, it's the chicken-shit way out. War should be a last resort, not a first -- I don't care how hurt we are.

I don't know how much more last resort we can get..

THere STILL fucking with the whole un inspector thing, and we know they would attack us in a heartbeat if they could find the means.

we've tried diplomacy for 8 years... it did not work.

 

[Problem Child]

You make some excellent points and both of you have pointed out the weaknesses in my post. I am not certain of the solid numbers of those who died on September 11th and those that have died at the hands of the U.S. since then. The numbers are not equal, however, and are in our favor.

So it's bad that less of us died than them? I think it's bad that anyone had to die. I'm sorry that the numbers are 2x what we lost or 3x or 4x or whatever they are. The fact is that in the long run, hopefully less people overall will have to suffer.

I think that the actions that America took against the Taliban were necessary. They needed to go. I can't imagine what they would have done if left in power, to their own people and to the rest of the world. However, anything more than dissolving the Taliban and eliminating those who posed an immense threat to innocent people anywhere was unnecessary, in my opinion.

So, in essence you don't have an alternative to what we did.

However, war is potentially spreading into Iraq, which I find disgusting. We have policed all we "needed" to, and our job is done. Sticking our fingers in other people's messes will only bring their wrath down on us -- which is exactly what happened on 9/11. So yes, Aquila, I guess in a way I AM saying that the U.S. deserved that attack. We have been killing people around the world and not understanding the losses we were making others suffer that 9/11 was a terrible slap in the face. But I get the feeling that the average American thinks that other people deserve to die so we can have what we have, but that the attacks on us were completely unprovoked and undeserved.

Two things here:

1. There is no linkage between 9/11 and Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush wanted to get rid of Hussein before he was ever elected president, and Afghanistan has merely made the suggestion that we go after him more palatable to the public.

2. Any suggestion that we deserved 9/11 is totally despicable, and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying it. Perhaps the U.S. needs to re-examine it's foreign policy, and make some changes, but there is no excuse on earth for 3,000 innocent people from almost every nation on earth being brutally killed. None. You need to grow the fuck up.

The rest of your post was a lot of idealistic psycho-babble. I'm still trying to deal with you saying that we deserved to be attacked like that. It speaks volumes about your naive view of the world.

 

[Aquila]

I love you problem child, and if I was a woman I would want to carry your children.

 

[Problem Child]

I love you problem child, and if I was a woman I would want to carry your children.

Somehow I feel you would make an ugly-ass, sterile woman.

 

[Aquila]

Somehow I feel you would make an ugly-ass, sterile woman.

yes

 

[BustyTheClown]

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[Guest]

Unfortunately it seems that since 11/9/01, if you have thoughts opposite to the media and the official "government line" then you are unpatriotic.

I am sure you love your country (hell you have said it in posts before), and you love life.... its just sad that to some people in the world, life outside your country does not seem to matter.

Hang in there and don't let the bastards grind you down. Stick with your beliefs... i admire you for that.

 

[Guest]

 

[Problem Child]

Alright, folks. Call me a deluded bitch, call me a cold, heartless bitch, tell me I'm cruel and naive. They're just names. But don't assume that you know everything about me just because you've read a few posts, and just because my posts may be a bit radical.

I am not going to excuse my opinions, because I don't need to. They're just opinions, and they aren't doing any actual harm to anyone except offending people. I am willing to admit that I'm only 20 years old. I admit that I have a lot to learn about how the world works, and I am still far more idealistic than I am realistic. Half of the things I believe -- or more -- wouldn't work in society because they are just too idealistic. I base my opinions on experiences I haven't had yet. Everyone does that when they don't have much to go off of. I am simply functioning under the pretenses of a 20 year old American lower-middle-class woman who lived a rather sheltered life and didn't have a whole lot of terrible shit happen to her.

Go ahead and tell me that's no excuse for the deranged things I have to say about America and how we deal with the world. Go ahead and get angry with me and call me names because you're upset with what I've said. Since I'm obviously so stupid and ignorant and ridiculously naive, there is no way you will convince me that your enlightened, unprejudiced, informed opinions are the correct ones to have, so you might as well save your name-calling because it won't have any effect on my "little head."

and the Oscar for a dramatic performance by a poster in the Political Threads category goes to....

*drum roll please*

Yes! Busty the Clown!

*deafening applause*