Separate Love from Lust?

[mike2010fc]

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[Lord Pmann]

How soon are you having sex with a girl after meeting her? I have found that, in many instances, this can be a problem. People get just a bit too fast too quickly. Some people can handle that and have no problems. But not many.

What often happens is that you build a relationship on physical attraction and the rest you try to sort out later. Sex is a powerful drug. And the penis is the stupidest body part. What happens, to girls and guys, is that when you allow sex into a relationship before getting to know the other person, it clouds your judgment. You overlook certain things and you Re overtaken by the feeling you get from sex. You become infatuated with that feeling and rush you get from sex. But once that newness wears off, you find yourself wanting something else. Sex is powerful, as I said. But for most, it's not enough. At the end of it all, if you have nothing in common, then you're knackered.

What I would recommend is this... Really get to know a girl before you go straight for sex. Take her out. Date her. Do stuff with her as a friend. Get to know who she is as a person. If you do that, then the connection is built on genuine common interest and friendship. Sex is a common interest of almost everyone.

As I said, at the end of everything, the newness wears off. If you get married and you age and your only common interest was sex, you'll be in for a long road.

For reference, I've only had sex with one person and that is my wife. We dated for 4 years and didn't have sex until marriage. Soooo, I at least practice what I preach. And for what it's worth, we have both a successful marriage and a happy sex life. Everything is not perfect, as no one's marriage is, except for liars.

 

[Lord Pmann]

And I realize my choices are far more extreme and strict than most people could stand or want to stand. But I'm just giving my experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[subwannabe]

Maybe you're expecting too much at this point in your life. Love can be defined in many ways but a lot of it has to do with the real thing, as in wanting to be with someone for the rest of your life, through thick and thin, have a house, a dog, 2 1/2 kids, a swingset in the backyard, and having either Thanksgiving or Christmas at your inlaw's house. If you're not there yet, you're not there. Hopefully when you get there you will have that 50/50 relationship you have been wondering about.

 

[amofiga]

They used to tell women that they had to kiss a lot of frogs till they found a prince. I suppose the same could be said for men and princesses. I figure the human animal is initially and naturally attracted by physical elements, i.e. lust. Lust usually fads after a few weeks/months when the ititial infatuation leads to learning more and more about the other person and finding out who they are underneath the skin. It's just a natural process. Sometimes, but not usually, the process is reversed and people become aware of a "friend" or someone they are compatible with at many levels turning into a "lover". Whichever route is followed, you'll know when it clicks.

There's nothing wrong with dating and having physical contact without sharing too much intimacy at first. People don't like to get emotionally naked as easily as getting physically naked. No harm as long as you aren't just using the other person for physical gratification and lying to them or leading them on to think it's something else. Usually, both parties aren't ready to sign up for the mortgage and the kids and the weekend soccer matches until they really have time to explore the other. If you are basically afraid to let the other person know you, then it's a problem. If/when the gears mesh, you'll both know it and it won't be a problem being intimate. It's best not to push it

 

[desertslave]

I think that love is more complicated and more evolving than you might think it is. We've been together 13 years (including 2+ years of mostly online with some precious face-time moments) and still learning things about each other. I think attraction gives you a jump start, but it takes time and effort to find the interest and appreciation of one another that develops into love.

In a funny way I think that was one of the nice things about starting our relationship online...we spent a LOT of time just talking, and it wasn't nearly as much cybering as it was 'getting to know you' time.

 

[CoyoteTales]

You're changing your priorities, perhaps?

I've always believed that lust comes in the front door with a bouquet of flowers, and love comes in carrying a suitcase.

If you find someone attractive for their mind, you're more in love with them than in lust. If you find someone attractive for their body but don't really have much interest in their personality 'fit', you're in lust.

A great litmus test I like to use with friends, family, and self alike is 'how do you feel after three weeks? After three months?' The former is how long it takes to realize you have a habit, and the latter is long enough for the newness to wear off.

I've always, always, insisted on getting to know someone as a person before I date them. It's less about the sex and more about the compatibility. One time in my life I was foolish enough to let myself believe someone loved me because they told me so, but it turned out to be definitely lust on their part after only two months.

To wit: "I need to know what I'm getting into before I get into it."

My relationships since the first one have been 80% love, / 20% lust - because I want my lover to be someone I can hang out with in other places besides the bedroom.

-CT

 

[silverwhisper]

mike, i don't know how old you are, but how you define love will continue to evolve with time--promise.

i say don't stress it and enjoy the relationship for what it is. should it become something more, great. but don't get hung up on that prospect because these things can't be forced.

ed

 

[AdjectiveNounVerb]

I think that love is more complicated and more evolving than you might think it is. We've been together 13 years (including 2+ years of mostly online with some precious face-time moments) and still learning things about each other. I think attraction gives you a jump start, but it takes time and effort to find the interest and appreciation of one another that develops into love.

In a funny way I think that was one of the nice things about starting our relationship online...we spent a LOT of time just talking, and it wasn't nearly as much cybering as it was 'getting to know you' time.

I agree completely based on my own experiences.

 

[Lord Pmann]

When I was about 15 or 16, employed the wank test. I was well aware that my hormones controlled 90% of my thoughts. It was hard for me to decipher if i liked a girl or if i was just horny. So, being aware of that, I decided to use this little test. Here is how it worked:

I'd consider the girl I liked. Then I'd have a wank. That five minutes after orgasm was the only clear, rational time I had in my life at the time (though it's not much different now). I'd use those few minutes to think about the girl. If the thought of hanging out with her annoyed me, then I realized it was hormones. If the thought of being with her still pleased me, then I knew I liked her.

This is how I found my wife.

 

[culloden]

When I was about 15 or 16, employed the wank test. I was well aware that my hormones controlled 90% of my thoughts. It was hard for me to decipher if i liked a girl or if i was just horny. So, being aware of that, I decided to use this little test. Here is how it worked:

I'd consider the girl I liked. Then I'd have a wank. That five minutes after orgasm was the only clear, rational time I had in my life at the time (though it's not much different now). I'd use those few minutes to think about the girl. If the thought of hanging out with her annoyed me, then I realized it was hormones. If the thought of being with her still pleased me, then I knew I liked her.

This is how I found my wife.

Again, Lit needs a Like button.

 

[mike2010fc]

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[SweetErika]

What I'm encountering now after getting my questions out on Lit is that I love my girlfriend but I don't want the feeling to just be based on the sense of dread that if I lose her, I may never have sex again.

You can't stay with someone because you're afraid of not finding someone else. You said you've had sex with over 100 women, right? Well, I'd say you wouldn't have a problem meeting other women if you're no longer with your current gf.

There are so many factors to weigh, like if I meet someone else, maybe she's in a different phase of life like has kids and I don't want them, or is too old to have kids and I want them, or is psycho, or has hangups that otherwise make us incompatible.

There it is again. If you're so in love, if this is the right woman for you to spend your life with, then why are you considering meeting other women? You talk about that a lot in your posts, and I think it's worth delving into deeper. It's like there's a foregone conclusion that your current relationship is doomed, or you're already thinking beyond the breakup, to when you're single again. That's got to tell you A LOT.

I feel like my girlfriend loves me regardless of my failings and that should count for something.

That's part of love. What about you, do you love her regardless of her failings, negative traits, what she looks like in the future, etc.? Do you feel she loves you more than you love her?

I know I'm taking her for granted to some degree. If we had just met, I wouldn't believe we were together and would think I was the luckiest guy in the world. Maybe we have just become too comfortable with each other.

Love IS comfort. It's being able to share deepest, darkest secrets and things you won't share with anyone else, or that are really difficult to share. It's a special sort of intimacy. It's showing someone your best AND worst, and knowing you're accepted for being exactly who you are. It's celebrating the highs and supporting each other through the lows. It's holding the other person up when they're at their lowest points. It's keeping them safe and doing the right thing for them, even when that's incredibly hard/damn near impossible.

I did have one thought though that's more serious. Maybe love and lust are opposites.

No, they're just different. Lust is a biological, brain chemistry thing that makes us want to mate, and love is what develops over time and is there long after the high of the lust is gone.

I'm worried that this dichotomy might make faithfulness and monogamy fundamentally unsatisfying (at least for men).

Honestly, I think you're overgeneralizing and finding excuses for your specific feelings and situation on some level. Plenty of men are happy being monogamous, even when they're given the choice to not be monogamous. If you find monogamy unsatisfying, that's fine, but you'll need to find someone who shares your values and will support you in being polyamorous or whatever IF you choose to be in a relationship (there's no rule on that - you could always stay single and do whatever you wish).

I'm worried that even though I described 90% of my sexual encounters as physical (mostly short term and one night stands), that maybe they were actually emotional because I didn't feel physically satisfied. I was only able to be with those women because they allowed me to sweep them off their feet emotionally. We didn't have sex as strangers, but as a man trying to gain a woman's love and vice versa.

There's almost always an emotional component to sexual encounters. Sometimes it's more prominent than others, but it's there, even when sex involves getting paid, to use your prostitute example.

Maybe I need a 100% physical relationship to feel "love" in my heart. Like go into sexual territory that I can't visit with someone I love. And that makes me question if we're really in love, because we can't trust each other to accept the other person for who we are, with all our hangups.

Maybe you just need to find someone who WILL accept you for exactly who you are and go into that sexual territory with you. Although to do that, you'll have to be complete honest about who you are and what you want and enjoy.

I know that everything I'm saying is cliche, but we only live once and these questions haunt me, like I'm going to throw my life away, never having done the things that I set out to do.

Then you need to figure that out and fix it. I'd say stepping back from your current relationship and devoting yourself to figuring things out and self-improvement would be a good start. Find a really good therapist to help you so you can stop torturing yourself. I feel the stress and anguish in your words, and it makes me sad and very concerned for you.

 

[SeatWarmer]

I'd consider the girl I liked. Then I'd have a wank. That five minutes after orgasm was the only clear, rational time I had in my life at the time (though it's not much different now). I'd use those few minutes to think about the girl. If the thought of hanging out with her annoyed me, then I realized it was hormones. If the thought of being with her still pleased me, then I knew I liked her.

A shockingly accurate insightful look into the psyche of a man. Arousal brings out the best and worst of our romance because our hormones are influencing our thoughts and actions, and the time after they settle is some of the most reliable for arousal-free thinking time.
+1 to this man and his post.

 

[bailadora]

<snip> He can't have certain acts with her, because they have to face each other the next day. I'm worried that this dichotomy might make faithfulness and monogamy fundamentally unsatisfying (at least for men). Mike

Say what? Wherever did you get that idea?

Part of a building a sustainable, healthy relationship is determining how compatible you are with each other when it comes to sex. Nothing is off limits unless the pair of you deem it so. Otherwise, the sky is the limit.

That said, determining compatibility does require open, honest communication between you both. Due to fear of rejection/judgement, it can be terrifying to be that emotionally vulnerable but IMO, I think it's a process worth going through. Sex is not by any means the be all, end all of any relationship, but it's an important enough component that incompatibility is likely to cause issues further down the road (witness the numerous Litsters who claim to be happily married, but sexually frustrated). Granted, this is only my opinion, but I think it's far better to discover and deal with the possible ramifications of the level of compatibility (or lack thereof) now, rather than much later when your lives are even more intertwined (marriage, kids, finances, etc).

 

[Beck31]

I was going to post a thread like this but someone already has. I think lust is based on sexual attraction alone and love is basically letting that person into your heart warts and all so to speak. I often struggle with this myself.

 

[culloden]

Do you consider your gf to be your friend as well as your lover? That's definitely part of the whole deal. A simplification might be something like this - If you want to do other things with her - just spend time, talk, walk the dog, as well as have a sexual relationship, maybe it's love. If all you want to do is fuck, I don't think it's love.

In one of your posts, you posed a bunch of "what if" questions. Sounds like you're afraid of commitment because you aren't sure something better won't come along. Truth is, there is no perfect relationship. Every one has warts. Functional, rewarding relationships take work, commitment, and mutual trust. Often, they require you to put aside your own wants. It's not always easy, but it can be worth it.

 

[Lord Pmann]

I think your concept is sex is really skewed, mate. You seem to be under the impression it's either one or the other when that's not the case. Your statement about men who go to see prostitutes just to do stuff they can't with their wives makes me think that the way you look at sex is nothing more than a physical act.

If you want, read some of the threads around here about guys going to see prostitutes or the threads written by call girls. See how many of them just mention The guys that want to sit and talk. Or kiss.

You don't seem so strive for that intimacy. You seem to understand that such is "normal", but I don't think that you feel it yourself. I do not know that this can be acquired or what. But you definitely have to come at it from a different angle.

 

[mike2010fc]

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[The_Librarian]

I think I could learn a lot from this thread. Carry on...

 

[Thefamiliar]

Not all men go to strip clubs with the intent of only pleasuring themselves. (I never visited a prostitute with a guy so can't speak about that lol)

Love and sex are not seperate entities, they are one and the same. Though not all sex has to be emotional, and not all love sexual, the lust factor is an attraction based on the want to connect with said person, weather or not its long term is another story.

Stop thinking "shoulds" and ask yourself do I want to?

You want to stay with your girlfriend. You say.

Should you? Is the question that keeps popping up isnt it?

The next question is do you really want the intamacy with her or not?

As long as the fear is greater than the want you will never succed.

In my experience one must face the fear, to gain the prize. The only thing to fear is fear itself.

Perhaps its not you at all, just the lack of understanding eachother, communication issues. Perhaps you have seperated sex and love since you have given yourself so freely to women who didnt want more from you.

Sorry to say, but you are the only one with the answer to your questions. No amount of advice will make you choose correctly, infact I guaranty it will just confuse you more.

Do you wish to stay with good? Do you wish to risk it for maybe? Is it worth you unhappiness? Are you really unhappy or is it outside influences making you wonder if you are happy?

Look for the one that makes your soul smile. If its her tune out the rest o the world and enjoy the reality as it is. If you truly dont want to let her go, why doesnt matter. Why is an empty question anyway, answered with excuses. Pick other questions instead.

And stop overthinking. Lol It makes your brain hurt***** is what you make it. Dont let fear drive you.

 

[njlauren]

When I was about 15 or 16, employed the wank test. I was well aware that my hormones controlled 90% of my thoughts. It was hard for me to decipher if i liked a girl or if i was just horny. So, being aware of that, I decided to use this little test. Here is how it worked:

I'd consider the girl I liked. Then I'd have a wank. That five minutes after orgasm was the only clear, rational time I had in my life at the time (though it's not much different now). I'd use those few minutes to think about the girl. If the thought of hanging out with her annoyed me, then I realized it was hormones. If the thought of being with her still pleased me, then I knew I liked her.

This is how I found my wife.

You are definitely batting 1.000 with these posts. For the OP, I don't know how old you are but it is pretty typical when young to be caught up in hormones, the excitement of sex and so forth, and while there is nothing wrong with it, it is how human beings develop, the problem is it can cover up a lot of other important things. I tend to agree with pmann, that in a relationship it is the other things that make it happen for the long term (not saying sex isn't important, by god that would be sad!), but rather that the rest is important, too. One of the reasons potentially to wait having sex when you are attracted to someone is simply to allow time to see if there are other things that seem to bind you too; When I met my spouse, I knew it was something special because we could sit for hours, simply talking about things and enjoying doing that, or sitting around people watching and enjoying simple things like that (given we were both poor as church mice in college, not surprising. It will be 30 years since we met later this year and 24 married, and I can say that while the sex is still wonderful, it always may not be, and it is the other things, the mutual respect, the things we share, that really keep the relationship going.

It is also very common early in a relationship for the physicality to be predominant, when young you are still learning about sex, it is still relatively new and exciting , the hormones are raging so you also need to give it time, too. Maybe the gal you are with now isn't ms perfect, but each person you date, tells you more and more what ms. perfect looks like, and eventually you are going to find someone, and the ratio won't matter, suddenly its going to be "this is the one"...... one of the things I learned over the years is we don't consciously choose 'the one', it chooses us so to speak