Scouries scores the nude day contest entries

[impressive]

I haven't checked out the background for this yet (will do). But if what I see in this thread regardless of past arguments is called a childish tempet tantrum, or if the was something is presented angrily here, I fail to see it. It's not gushing adoration, but is it sour grapes snideness? or is that what your attitude towards him coloring what you read here?

No, hun. He posted a rant in the Nude Day Contest support thread. However, his critiques don't seem mean-spirited. Ignorant and/or short-sighted at times, but not mean.

 

[Liar]

K. I read his posts in the Nude Day support thread. Nothing spectacular, if you ask me.

Why do you say it's ignorant and/or short-sighted? It's a helluva lot more insightful and articulate than "Liked ur stiry. Cummed 3 timz", at least.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I haven't checked out the background for this yet (will do). But if what I see in this thread regardless of past arguments is called a childish tempet tantrum, or if the was something is presented angrily here, I fail to see it. It's not gushing adoration, but is it sour grapes snideness? or is that what your attitude towards him coloring what you read here?

I think a person's character and past actions and opinions are relevant and important when taking in feedback.

There are some people whose feedback I take less seriously because they approve of and gush over everything.

There are some people whose feedback I trust because they only give good comments when it's really warranted and tell the honest truth when it's not.

There are some people whose feedback contains a hidden (or not so) agenda. Feedback like that needs to be weighed, just like any other feedback.

With anonymous, you never know, and have to go by numbers (i.e. if a whole bunch of anonymous commenters hate the story and say the same thing, it might be something to look at, and vice versa)

But Scouries isn't anonymous. He's come here, opened a new thread, and decided to review stories. I have to look at his character, past actions, opinions, and decide where to place him on that continuum. I also have to consider his motivation. Is he truly seeking to give constuctive criticism? Or is he trying to make a point and using contest entrants to do it?

I feel it's the latter. You may, of course, have a different take on things.

 

[impressive]

Why do you say it's ignorant and/or short-sighted?

Well, down-voting a story simply because you dislike the category (i.e., Reviews & Essays) instead of judging it based upon: (a) the quality of the writing; and (b) the applicability to the contest theme ... well, that is both ignorant and short-sighted to me.

 

[R. Richard]

Well, down-voting a story simply because you dislike the category (i.e., Reviews & Essays) instead of judging it based upon: (a) the quality of the writing; and (b) the applicability to the contest theme ... well, that is both ignorant and short-sighted to me.

I agree that down-voting a story because of a dislike of the category is wrong.

I do appreciate useful feedback based upon a) the quality of the writing; b) the quality of the story; and c) the applicability to the contest theme. I stress the quality of the story, because I feel that a good story (good plot, good characters, interesting incidents) is somewhat independent of good writing.

I do not really appreciate useless feedback: "I gaiv yoo a 5 cuz I go my roks off!" "Yore writtin stinks. I seen beter stuf ritten on rest room walls. I done give you a 1." [Not everyone who doesn't like my stories is dumb and borderline illiterate, but there is a definite trend IMNTHO!]

 

[Guest]

I don't know any "background" or "past history" about Scouries, but like Lauren and Liar, I'm coming into this and reading the reviews at face value. They seem pretty honest to me and done in good faith, and not at all vitriolic.

I must say, I also find it refreshing to read such thorough and honest critiques and I don't have to agree with everything he said to see that.

I honestly would welcome that kind of feedback on any of my stories.

 

[Sex and Death]

There is a difference (big one...canyon-esque, as a matter of fact) between opinion and criticism.

Opinion is a form of self-love (masturbation). Opinion comes from a concern for one's self. It's not inherently bad, but it is inherently selfish.

At it's best, criticism is a form of selfless love and is concerned with a greater purpose than one's self. Criticism comes from a love for the art form, particular work or piece in progress, and/or a desire to help the artist become better for a greater purpose. Ideally, critic and artist both love the art.

Opinion and criticism are both forms of feedback, but with very different motivations and aims.

I've seen articles and posts here on how to give feedback, but I don't know if there's anything on how to receive feedback, decide whether it's valuable or not, and make best use of it. Maybe such an article and/or dialogue would serve.

~S&D

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Damn, I'm glad I've decided to sit another contest out...

 

[neonlyte]

Lauren,
I take your point, and I wasn't specifically complaining about Scouries review. I'd rather receive honest opinion than bland acknowledgement.

I could take issue with the idea that a story is marked down because the reader doesn't enjoy the catagory - that is not objective review.

I could take issue with the 'tacked-on' Nude day comment. The beginning of the story clearly establishes a conflict between the couple. The resolution, contrived as it may be in the context of Nude Day theme, marks a step in a clearly established relationship, she conceeds to his wishes to appear nude in public because it is important in the relationship context.

The other comments about story structure are fine, and possibly valid to a degree, worth re-examining. As for sex, well I am a new author for Scouries, if he'd read any of my other work he'd have found I don't generally include sex as the main thrust of my stories, but he wasn't to know.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Damn, I'm glad I've decided to sit another contest out...

*mountain dew spew* !!

smart guy, bri

----

S&D... actually...
Dealing with Negative Feedback
How to Deal With Negative Feedback

but they are admittedly mostly about shrugging it off, not quite about how to discern the "criticism" from the "opinion."

 

[Guest]

 

[Selena_Kitt]

How to Give and Receive Feedback from the story discussion forum. The essay includes both halves of the equation.

I keep TELLING her to post the damned thing as a how-to!

 

[Guest]

 

[impressive]

Me too. Hasn't worked. Let's gang up on her. I'll tickle her, you take away her chocolate.

Ooooo -- below the belt hit.

 

[Liar]

Me too. Hasn't worked. Let's gang up on her. I'll tickle her, you take away her chocolate.

Oh, you're a mean woman.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

There is a difference (big one...canyon-esque, as a matter of fact) between opinion and criticism.

Opinion is a form of self-love (masturbation). Opinion comes from a concern for one's self. It's not inherently bad, but it is inherently selfish.

At it's best, criticism is a form of selfless love and is concerned with a greater purpose than one's self. Criticism comes from a love for the art form, particular work or piece in progress, and/or a desire to help the artist become better for a greater purpose. Ideally, critic and artist both love the art.

Opinion and criticism are both forms of feedback, but with very different motivations and aims.

I've seen articles and posts here on how to give feedback, but I don't know if there's anything on how to receive feedback, decide whether it's valuable or not, and make best use of it. Maybe such an article and/or dialogue would serve.

~S&D

Well, in leaving feedback I use the advice my mother gave me..."If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..."

 

[Guest]

 

[simply_cyn]

Well, in leaving feedback I use the advice my mother gave me..."If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..."

good, sound advice ...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Lauren, it would be easier to accept Scouries' comments as simple honesty had he not used the Nude Day Contest support thread to make innuendos about AH authors knowing about the contest "before" anyone else. He's also repeatedly posted that he can't write a story before the closing date, and that it's because he didn't know about the contest.

Taking that into account, it's difficult to believe these reviews are written without an agenda. I hope they are, but I can't count on it.

Like Liar, I have read the comments on the Nude Day thread and see nothing much either. So, Scouries is a little inept in finding things. So what? Someone could have simply said that the announcement has been on Lit's homepage from the start and all the contests are announced at the start of each year. And that would be it.

That's all irrelevant, though. No matter where they come from, the validity of comments should be judged on their own. The greatest idiot in the world can say something about a story of yours that you had never considered before and find out to be true. When one calls himself a writer and asks for feedback, either explicitly or implicitly, he or she must be prepared for everything, not just praise.

Whether or not there is an agenda behind the comments (and I don't believe it from what I have seen), the only sour grapes I see are from authors here who have taken exception with Scouries's view of the way contests at run at Lit. Authors who should know better.

Of course that I can't possibly agree with Scouries when he automatically downgrades a story for being in certain categories - especially when it's done to compensate the votes of others - or for exceeding a pre-determined length before he even begins to read, but hell, it's just one person's opinion, and that's the reality of things. Readers do choose stories in one category over another, and books are judged by their covers. At least he is applying the same criteria to all the stories in the contest and being upfront about it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Well, in leaving feedback I use the advice my mother gave me..."If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all..."

good, sound advice ...

Good, sound advice when it refers to feedback to give to your girlfriend when she asks if those pants make her ass look big. When it refers to writing, it's the most harmful advice there is.

If you don't have anything nice to say about a story you read, it's your obligation to say it. The author asked for feedback, and if there is one thing that will be useful for him or her to know in order to grow as a writer is that to you, as a reader, that story doesn't work. You need to let him or her know that, and why it doesn't work.

By staying silent, you become an accomplice of Crap-Proliferation and Author-Stagnation, the penalties for which should be death.

 

[Guest]

 

[neonlyte]

By staying silent, you become an accomplice of Crap-Proliferation and Author-Stagnation, the penalties for which should be death.

Will you squash me ?

 

[Liar]

By staying silent, you become an accomplice of Crap-Proliferation and Author-Stagnation, the penalties for which should be death.

Death might be a bit drastic. I'd settle for a lifetime supply of spam.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Death by squash.

 

[Liar]

Death by squash.

Is that http://www.gov.im/lib/images/sport/squash.jpg or http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Canning/canning-pickled-squash.jpg ?