School and phones.

[4est_4est_Gump]

Unless the student is Muslim...

 

[zipman]

Stupid AND dangerous.

Let's start with the fact that neither the child nor the parent are in control of the situation and the phone isn't going to help. A dangerous waste of time.

The schools all have contingency plans for such an event, the kid better be listening to what they're being told........not trying to call Mom or Dad (who are of little or no use in the situation).

Most plans call for the children to be herded into a 'safe' zone where they won't draw the attention of the perp. Ringing phones and/or conversations would sorta defeat the whole purpose of that........ya think?

While cell towers have increased capacity these days, it's still finite. Hundreds of pointless calls being routed through the tower has the potential of blocking out the really important calls that need to be routed.

The kid having a phone isn't going to prevent shit from happening, nor make any significant difference in ameliorating the damage done. And in the worst case the parent giving instructions contrary to what the child is being told by the teacher, or whoever is executing the plan leading to confusion and tragedy. The parent isn't there and hasn't a clue as to what is occurring in that instant of time. And most likely the kid doesn't either. Of what value is the phone?

Using Columbine, or any of the other school tragedies, as an excuse for the student to have a phone is the sign of a weak mind. If the parent is all that concerned they should find out what the contingency plan is for the school their child is attending and voice their concerns, if any, before the shit hits the fan. Thinking a phone will make a difference, calling in or calling out, while the shit is flying isn't going to make any difference at all.

Parents who through Columbine out as an excuse are merely engaging in mindless histrionics and passing that mindless attitude on to their children.

Ishmael

The idea isn't that the child call the parent for help, it is for the child to call the parent afterwards and let them know they are okay. That's the whole reason parents give kids cell phones in the first place.

And cell towers can easily handle that much traffic. It is only during a much wider crisis that they could become overloaded.

And, just cause you're old and stupid, they invented this newfangled thing called texting. You might want to look into it.

 

[ishtat]

But I just don't think it's ok for the school to take the kids phone just like that.

Of course the school should not take the kids phone. After all, how are they gunna learn to deal drugs without a phone.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Wow. People are deeply retarded.

Of course kids should have Cell Phones these days. Even if you're stupid enough to buy into Ishy's little theory of how a school shooting goes down and pretend like his beliefs on gun control don't contradict this the reality is that peace of mind goes a fair way and parents and children who feel that they are "in control" of a situation are simply easier to work with than those in a blind panic. So even if the Cell phone is functionally of no more use than Dumbo's Feather andbody who remembers the movie can tell you, that fucking feather gave an elephant the confidence to fucking fly.

The one day, one week, one year policy one of those things like Zero Tolerance for weapons. It sounds all good and well but I can easily see this falling apart in practice. What qualifies as disrupting a class and why? Is me with my head down texting disruptive to the class? Speaking personally playing Pokemon my gameboy or setting up Dungeons and Dragons quests was what kept me from being disruptive in plenty of classes in high school. Volume off of course just not bothering anybody. Is it ringing a disruption? I would say that it is, but I've been to enough business meetings and seminars to know that asking full grown adults in a professional environment to put their phones on silent or off is apparently asking a great deal because almost without fail ONE does go off. I can only imagine kids being worse. What about just having a seat that happens to be in the wrong location? I know at my old office I had to make a point of leaving my cell in my car on Thursdays because the meeting room had speakers that reacted with my cell. If someone called/texted me even if the fucker was on silent being too close to a speaker would have it flip the fuck out.

Besides how long will it take between now and when the schools figure out that giving kids Ipads (or a similar device) is the common sense approach anyway. I find it baffling they haven't started moving in that direction already.

I'm fairly sure schools would be able to get exemption from any such laws.

I doubt it. Those things are illegal for a reason.

 

[Lancecastor]

Ok... That's funny.

Thanks, I thought it was chuckle-worthy.


We also went through "this" with electronic calculators....and before that, Ish probably remembers when slide rulers weren't allowed in class during Trig tests.

 

[Sean Renaud]

This is different largely than calculators. Calculators could get you to answers that you couldn't on your own. And trust me I'm part of the school of thought that says math is used sufficiently rarely by people in their day to day lives that (and calculators have become more common now than in 95 when I first said this) if you can't find a calculator you've got a much bigger problem than whatever math problem is infront of you.

This is more like passing notes in class. Obnoxious but it's not going to get you higher grades in MOST cases. And yes I'm sure some kids are looking up the answers to the history test.

 

[Lancecastor]

This is different largely than calculators. Calculators could get you to answers that you couldn't on your own.

I was always in the "accelerated" class; one of the perqs was we had a set of Encyclopedia Britannica in our home room, to which we could refer anytime except during tests.

A smart phone can fulfill that role.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I didn't have that privilge despite being in similar programs but you know what? I'm on board. I think kids and people who know how to get to the right answer is the way to go. It's always annoying to listen to Ish pretends something isn't true because I actually had to look up and cite why this bit of information is wrong or this part is right and he just knew even if all evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Lancecastor]

It's always annoying to listen to Ish pretends something isn't true because I actually had to look up and cite why this bit of information is wrong or this part is right and he just knew even if all evidence is to the contrary.

Hey, if Ish is still able to get you to swallow the hook after all this time, more power to him.

http://comm181.pbworks.com/f/1303953779/trolling%20fishing_pic.png

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Wow. People are deeply retarded.

Of course kids should have Cell Phones these days. Even if you're stupid enough to buy into Ishy's little theory of how a school shooting goes down and pretend like his beliefs on gun control don't contradict this the reality is that peace of mind goes a fair way and parents and children who feel that they are "in control" of a situation are simply easier to work with than those in a blind panic. So even if the Cell phone is functionally of no more use than Dumbo's Feather andbody who remembers the movie can tell you, that fucking feather gave an elephant the confidence to fucking fly.

The one day, one week, one year policy one of those things like Zero Tolerance for weapons. It sounds all good and well but I can easily see this falling apart in practice. What qualifies as disrupting a class and why? Is me with my head down texting disruptive to the class? Speaking personally playing Pokemon my gameboy or setting up Dungeons and Dragons quests was what kept me from being disruptive in plenty of classes in high school. Volume off of course just not bothering anybody. Is it ringing a disruption? I would say that it is, but I've been to enough business meetings and seminars to know that asking full grown adults in a professional environment to put their phones on silent or off is apparently asking a great deal because almost without fail ONE does go off. I can only imagine kids being worse. What about just having a seat that happens to be in the wrong location? I know at my old office I had to make a point of leaving my cell in my car on Thursdays because the meeting room had speakers that reacted with my cell. If someone called/texted me even if the fucker was on silent being too close to a speaker would have it flip the fuck out.

Besides how long will it take between now and when the schools figure out that giving kids Ipads (or a similar device) is the common sense approach anyway. I find it baffling they haven't started moving in that direction already.

Disruption is not the only issue. There is also a presumption you are there to learn and that the teacher has a legitimate interest in pursuing that objective. In my day, comic books and other "inappropriate" reading material were confiscated for that self-disrupting reason.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Disruption is not the only issue. There is also a presumption you are there to learn and that the teacher has a legitimate interest in pursuing that objective. In my day, comic books and other "inappropriate" reading material were confiscated for that self-disrupting reason.

This is an issue I have with the schooling process in general. I'm not going to sit here and and pretend I'm the smartest person ever born. I have my strengths and my weaknesses. As a general rule (especially when talking back in school stuff) my English, History and basic science are all well above grade level. What does this mean in practical terms? Maybe I should have been skipped a grade maybe not. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that if I'm getting an A in your class and I'm required to take your class to graduate where do we meet? I can try to pretend like I didn't read "Call of the Wild" for fun two summers ago. Hell half the test questions I got wrong were because in chapter 3 so and so was running from the wolves but I'd read chapter 7 where they kicked ass. (Which is still a wrong answer but I'm making a point.)

In a world where at the very least bumping someone up a grade is a lot of paper work that most people don't want for various reasons. I have to physically be present for your class instead of showing up for the tests or what not. And I already know everything so the class is just redundant. . .

And yes, I know, back your day the smart kids just toughed it out in silence. They didn't find ways to amuse themselves during classes that were beneath them they just dug down deep and dealt. The reality (IMO) however is unless the moral of the story has soemthing to do with discipline the fact that nobody solved an obvious problem in your day isn't a good reason not to fix it now. And my fix was far from ideal. My schooling would have been greatly enhanced if they had done (and this is off the top of my head) said "Okay you need 15 minutes of English to keep pace with the class + test time) but 1 hour of algebra just isn't cutting it. You need 2 hours there. (I would personally have hated life but primarily because it would have cut into my Pokemon training.)

 

[VaticanAssassin]

This is an issue I have with the schooling process in general. I'm not going to sit here and and pretend I'm the smartest person ever born. I have my strengths and my weaknesses. As a general rule (especially when talking back in school stuff) my English, History and basic science are all well above grade level. What does this mean in practical terms? Maybe I should have been skipped a grade maybe not. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that if I'm getting an A in your class and I'm required to take your class to graduate where do we meet? I can try to pretend like I didn't read "Call of the Wild" for fun two summers ago. Hell half the test questions I got wrong were because in chapter 3 so and so was running from the wolves but I'd read chapter 7 where they kicked ass. (Which is still a wrong answer but I'm making a point.)

In a world where at the very least bumping someone up a grade is a lot of paper work that most people don't want for various reasons. I have to physically be present for your class instead of showing up for the tests or what not. And I already know everything so the class is just redundant. . .

And yes, I know, back your day the smart kids just toughed it out in silence. They didn't find ways to amuse themselves during classes that were beneath them they just dug down deep and dealt. The reality (IMO) however is unless the moral of the story has soemthing to do with discipline the fact that nobody solved an obvious problem in your day isn't a good reason not to fix it now. And my fix was far from ideal. My schooling would have been greatly enhanced if they had done (and this is off the top of my head) said "Okay you need 15 minutes of English to keep pace with the class + test time) but 1 hour of algebra just isn't cutting it. You need 2 hours there. (I would personally have hated life but primarily because it would have cut into my Pokemon training.)

I completely understand your attitude. By my last three years of high school I had learned to study the syllabus day 1 to figure out if I could pull a C by getting a A on all the exams. If it was possible, those where the only days I came to class.

But teaching to the lowest denominator is not something that will ever change. Learning to deal with it is a lesson in its self. Because the corporate world is the same way. Meeting upon redundant meetings of bull shit you already know. So while playing Pokeman may be the answer in school.... it will get your ass fired in real life.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I completely understand your attitude. By my last three years of high school I had learned to study the syllabus day 1 to figure out if I could pull a C by getting a A on all the exams. If it was possible, those where the only days I came to class.

But teaching to the lowest denominator is not something that will ever change. Learning to deal with it is a lesson in its self. Because the corporate world is the same way. Meeting upon redundant meetings of bull shit you already know. So while playing Pokeman may be the answer in school.... it will get your ass fired in real life.

In real life it may or may not it depends on so many factors that it's impossible to state. Salaried workers (in decent companies) are around when it's necessary and then bounce out and or create their own schedules from the get go. Though increasingly salaried workers are just an excuse not to pay overtime. That's kind of a different issue.

I don't know that I believe that teaching to the lowest denominator is somethign that will never change. It barely makes sense anymore. By which I mean there no place other than K-12 (and really by High School even this is wearing off) where your age is the most important factor in your placement. Everybody would have been happier if they'd just tested me for English and said "Okay, you're good here. No more English classes. but you need double in math cus. .. you fucking suck." (And I do. I get by but I get by because nobody ever asks me to measure a shadow under a flag pole and tell you how tall it is. Or how many cubic inches of concrete it takes to fill a car.)

 

[Colonel Hogan]

The idea isn't that the child call the parent for help, it is for the child to call the parent afterwards and let them know they are okay. That's the whole reason parents give kids cell phones in the first place.

And cell towers can easily handle that much traffic. It is only during a much wider crisis that they could become overloaded.

And, just cause you're old and stupid, they invented this newfangled thing called texting. You might want to look into it.

In a Columbine scenario, crisis manager Ish has decided it is preferable to keep ALL parents in the dark so that even the parents of kids who have been safely evacuated can create panic traffic jams on the surface streets around the school and nearby hospitals, thus impeding emergency vehicles.

God forbid a kid got through to his parents and said, "I'm okay, but don't come to school. They've taken us to a church basement a mile away."

Could the parents get that info from the TV? Sure. But now there's a third place they wouldn't know where the kid is if they haven't heard from him directly. Now we potentially have three cars on the street: dad driving to school, mom driving to the hospital and grandpa driving to the church.

Kids still in the danger zone sheltering in place obviously need to turn their GODDAMN PHONES OFF IMMEDIATELY! But that's hardly a reason for kids not to have a cell phone generally or for kids out of danger not to make quick contact with their parents and update them on their condition if the system can handle it.

And as for "blocking important calls that need to go through," I'm sure he isn't talking about dedicated EMS radio frequencies carrying police and fire voice traffic. By definition he has to be talking about "important" calls going through the public telephone network which are somehow still not important enough to have their own dedicated channel.

Hey, Ish! Did you know that you and 23 of your buddies can all chip in and lease a dedicated T-1 for anywhere from $212 to $1,200 a month? That pretty much allows you to bypass ALL public network congestion. In fact, that's a major reason the service is offered. Does it work if your lines are physically cut. No, of course not, but I think you get the idea.

Critical communicators subjecting themselves to the vagaries of the public phone network tend to have their vital links disrupted on Mothers Day as well. Now how stupid is that?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Why do kids in the danger zone need to shut off their phones. It seems that being able to get information in and out "the shooter is in Building C RUN YOU DUMB BITCHES!!" greatly outweighs the idea that the shooter is stalking through the halls, hears a phone ring and bursts into a class room he would otherwise have passed.

I'm not stating we should be encouraging kids to organize some movie escape but I'm having a hard time seeing the devastating downside.

 

[Sean]

How dare you people disagree with Ish. How dare you!

 

[Colonel Hogan]

This is an issue I have with the schooling process in general. I'm not going to sit here and and pretend I'm the smartest person ever born. I have my strengths and my weaknesses. As a general rule (especially when talking back in school stuff) my English, History and basic science are all well above grade level. What does this mean in practical terms? Maybe I should have been skipped a grade maybe not. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that if I'm getting an A in your class and I'm required to take your class to graduate where do we meet? I can try to pretend like I didn't read "Call of the Wild" for fun two summers ago. Hell half the test questions I got wrong were because in chapter 3 so and so was running from the wolves but I'd read chapter 7 where they kicked ass. (Which is still a wrong answer but I'm making a point.)

In a world where at the very least bumping someone up a grade is a lot of paper work that most people don't want for various reasons. I have to physically be present for your class instead of showing up for the tests or what not. And I already know everything so the class is just redundant. . .

And yes, I know, back your day the smart kids just toughed it out in silence. They didn't find ways to amuse themselves during classes that were beneath them they just dug down deep and dealt. The reality (IMO) however is unless the moral of the story has soemthing to do with discipline the fact that nobody solved an obvious problem in your day isn't a good reason not to fix it now. And my fix was far from ideal. My schooling would have been greatly enhanced if they had done (and this is off the top of my head) said "Okay you need 15 minutes of English to keep pace with the class + test time) but 1 hour of algebra just isn't cutting it. You need 2 hours there. (I would personally have hated life but primarily because it would have cut into my Pokemon training.)

All well and good, but you're only talking about one color on the spectrum. There are also dumb kids and obstinate kids and ADD kids who are in that class and need to be paying attention. Hypothesizing about reasonable reasons kids might not need or be able to pay attention in class and how the system does not address those need is guaranteed to take us way off onto a tangent that does not address the immediacy of what needs to happen at that moment irrespective of the system's faults.

Kids IN class need to pay attention, and it is reasonable for the teacher to remove the vast majority of distractions that would inhibit that participation.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Why do kids in the danger zone need to shut off their phones. It seems that being able to get information in and out "the shooter is in Building C RUN YOU DUMB BITCHES!!" greatly outweighs the idea that the shooter is stalking through the halls, hears a phone ring and bursts into a class room he would otherwise have passed.

I'm not stating we should be encouraging kids to organize some movie escape but I'm having a hard time seeing the devastating downside.

But you don't need every single person in the building communicating that information. In a lockdown situation, allow ONLY teachers and administrators phone access with very specific instructions on what and how to communicate.

 

[BabblingBrooke]

At my niece's school recently, there was a rumor that a kid threatened to bring a gun to school and shoot people the next day. Kids reported it and the school reacted appropriately by calling in the police and the student's parents. At the conclusion of the investigation that day, the first student who made the claim confessed to making it up.

That night on Facebook, posts were flying about the school shooting that was going to go down the next day. As you can imagine, parents panicked and reposted and retweeted and the community seemed convinced that a school shooting would happen. The school did a One Call to inform parents of the truth, but the panic remained. My brother saw 6 police cars in the parking lot the next day when dropping off his kids. The police were present throughout the day to alleviate concerns, but really it was only for that purpose as there wasn't a real threat.

As I finish typing this, I realize it is off-topic, but I do think it is related somewhat to a conversation about the need for phones in schools for shootings. We also need teens and parents to be alert when using social media and to fact check. I'm my brothers shoes, I would still have had trouble taking my kids to that school the next day. It was a frightening position for a parent.

 

[Sean]

You know, to a Brit, the casual American acceptance that school shootings are a thing is just mind boggling.

 

[BabblingBrooke]

You know, to a Brit, the casual American acceptance that school shootings are a thing is just mind boggling.

For some, it's exactly as you describe. For many (including myself), it is terrifying and not at all casually accepted. People shouldn't be afraid to send their kids to school.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

You know, to a Brit, the casual American acceptance that school shootings are a thing is just mind boggling.

Equally perplexing to us Yanks is how a Brit would take a series of tragedies like school shootings and assume based on nothing other than their mere occurrence that Americans "casually accept" them.

Need you be reminded that "Rule Britannia" contains an "L" and not a "D"?

 

[kbate]

I don't care if my students have their phones in hand at all times. They cannot pass my classes that way and the few who try end up staring at a big 0 on the wall when final grades come out.

It falls to the teacher to stay ahead of technology and for exams to be tech-proof.

Of course, they're paying a lot of money to sit in my class so if they want to waste it, that's their privilege.

 

[smoothg103rd]

I don't care if my students have their phones in hand at all times. They cannot pass my classes that way and the few who try end up staring at a big 0 on the wall when final grades come out.

It falls to the teacher to stay ahead of technology and for exams to be tech-proof.

Of course, they're paying a lot of money to sit in my class so if they want to waste it, that's their privilege.

What do you teach?

 

[smoothg103rd]

Of course the school should not take the kids phone. After all, how are they gunna learn to deal drugs without a phone.

Huh??