Rotflmao

[SeaCat]

I am currently chatting with my youngest Niece.

She just found out from my father that I not only have a handgun, but that I have taught my wife how to shoot.

She is more than just slightly upset by this.

She seems to think that not just the ability to defend oneself but the idea of defending oneself is wrong.

She is even more upset at me because I don't agree with her on this.

Cat

 

[The_Fool]

I am currently chatting with my youngest Niece.

She just found out from my father that I not only have a handgun, but that I have taught my wife how to shoot.

She is more than just slightly upset by this.

She seems to think that not just the ability to defend oneself but the idea of defending oneself is wrong.

She is even more upset at me because I don't agree with her on this.

Cat

I'm sure that discussion digressed in a hurry....*G*

 

[Zeb_Carter]

So when is she coming over to try and talk you out of gun ownership?

 

[SeaCat]

LOLOLOL

She has absolutly no interest in visiting Florida. (At least not since I informed her that if she came down here for more than a couple of days her and her husband would have to find jobs.)

As for the conversation digressing it quickly just plain stopped when I asked her to explain how she felt that defending oneself is wrong.

Cat

 

[AchtungNight]

Oh boy...

 

[R. Richard]

As for the conversation digressing it quickly just plain stopped when I asked her to explain how she felt that defending oneself is wrong.

Cat

The only rational explanation I have ever gotten from the people who feel it is not right to defend oneself under unprovoked attack is that the attacker will likely die and, as a result will not receive a fair trial. [Did I say rational?]

 

[Guest]

Ive never been particularly pro- or anti- gun. I've shot hand guns and bench rifles (noisy! too noisy!) and while guns don't scare me, I don't have a particular liking for them. My brothers both hunt, as did my dad. I like the idea of making gun ownership like driving -- one has to prove responsible behavior or lose it. I wish it was harder to get a driver's liscence, actually. Anyway...

While I'd like to think that the world could be a place where guns weren't necessary, and sometimes I think people would be less likely to kill each other if they had to actually get in with their hands and stab or beat someone to death, as I get older I begin to think that a gun-owning populace is a good way to keep a government nervous and anxious to please...

I just wish, sometimes, that I didn't feel it smart to be so scared of some of the people who legally own guns...or so terrified of ALL the sorts of people who ILLEGALLY own them.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I can understand one standing by the principle that they will not engage in violence even in their own defense. I by a rather unfortunate neccessity am such, but there is no way in all of the burning fields of this most enjoyable domain I can understand someone telling another person that they are not allowed to ever defend themselves.


I can understand an argument that one should do everything in their power to avoid violence and use it only as a last resort or even that killing in defense does not lessen the moral or emotional burden of killing even if it does justify. There are a hundred halfway arguments one could make that could have some semblance of rationality in them, but saying one isn't allowed to defend oneself at all is rather ludicrous.

 

[artisticbiguy]

I grew up with guns... shot my first pistol at about age 5 (I think, might have been age 6 or age 4) with my dad steadying my hands. I enjoy plinking at the range, but I no longer own any guns. I have nothing against them... though I do draw the line at people owning things like M16s... who the fuck needs one of those to defend themselves (unless they're planning to defend themselves against the government... and even then, the gov would have bigger badder weapons, so I don't see the point).

I have friends with guns, and friends terrified of guns... I am not an advocate of violence, but I also know if it was my life or someone else's.... that sucker's going to be dead, or will have paid a dear price for my life.

 

[R. Richard]

I just wish, sometimes, that I didn't feel it smart to be so scared of some of the people who legally own guns...or so terrified of ALL the sorts of people who ILLEGALLY own them.

In the area of the Western US where I live it is entirely legal to openly carry a loaded firearm in public. Concealed carry does require a permit. During "Frontier Days" it is quite common to see adult men walking around in full cowboy regalia with a loaded "six-shooter" on their hip.

There is virtually NO home burglary in our area. If a burglar gets caught breaking into a home, the "judge" usually says something like "ashes to ashes, dust to dust." However, car break-ins are quite common. It is not legal to shoot someone who breaks into your car. [No, I have no idea why.]

As to people who illegally carry guns, we do have a certain amount of store robberies. However, the robbers don't run out of a store displaying a firearm. There are too many locals who are armed and dangerous.

Just a comment on local law and order.

 

[AchtungNight]

I used to have a concealed handgun license. I got it because I needed to carry a gun at work and didn't want to get in trouble for having it in my truck when I was off-duty. Then I got a job where I didn't need a gun, and I was relieved, so I sold the gun in part to get it out of my life. I also needed the money. I had never really needed the gun for anything other than a prop. Nor had I used it as anything other than such. I sold the gun, then let my license expire and cut it up. I felt relaxed as a result. I could have kept the gun, sure, and used it wisely to defend myself, but I'm glad I didn't have to. Using my martial arts skills is more fun too.

I will probably regret this decision if I ever come up against some asshole who has a gun and the will to use it.

 

[SeaCat]

I not only have a concealed Carry Permit, I also have a rather nice Handgun. (It's actually kind of larg to carry concealed.)

I, because of my training and practice am quite good with it. I know from past experience what I can do with it.

Surprisingly for many, I rarely carry it. Even when I go into the more dangerouse areas.

Yes I do firmly believe in the rights of a person to protect themselves. I even believe in the rights of a person to kill another in the defense of themself.

That being said, my personal favorite weapon for home defense is a collapsable Steel Baton. If you break into my home you will quickly be within reach of my weapon, and with my training and vision you are now mine. (If you are armed with a firearm you might get off one shot, but I doubt it.)

Go ahead and sue me, you will not win. In this state I am allowed to defend myself with the most force needed and the courts will not question it. (The Castle Doctrine.)

As a person I have rights. The State of Florida has decided that the owner or resident has the right of defense, without running.

Maybe this is why our rate of violent crime is dropping across the state.

Cat

 

[matriarch]

Guns.

*shudder*

 

[672]

You wanna protect yourself? Learn how to fight. Or better still - buy a sword! Compared to sissy-pansy gun fights, they're much more interesting to watch, and actually take a bit more skill than aiming practice.

And if you live in California, better than Pilates!

 

[minsue]

Never mind

 

[AchtungNight]

Cat: I'm really good with a baton too.

 

[rgraham666]

I like a rolled up magazine, myself.

Denser than a piece of wood the same size.

Easy to conceal as well.

 

[English Lady]

I'm a brit and I jsut don't get the gun thing. *shrugs* I'm glad I live here where gun carrying is by and large illegal. I'll not try and argue my point, as I can see there is no point.

But Cat, starting a thread that states your laughing at someone elses principles and point of view seems a a bit, well more than a bit, not nice and decidedly immature.

But hey, I'm just a crazy Brit.

 

[Liar]

Rational or not, I'm a little bit scared of visiting a place where everyone and their mother is walking around with the tools to kill me concelaed on their person.

The most common blurt you hear from gun-huggers is "if guns are outlawed unly outlaws will have guns"

True. Now, define outlaw.

Most violent crimes are not committed by career criminals. They are committed by you and me. I've seen, over and over again, how thin the line is between being a law-abiding decent person, and a violent criminal. Walk down the street any given day, and you will see a handful of wife-beaters, one or two rapists and sexual predators, and not an insignificant amount of people who potentionally could snap under the wrong circumstances. You will not know who they are, because they look like any Joe and Jane. They have not done time, they have a clean police record. And although they are perhaps not as individually dangerous as the hardened criminal thug, they are a hundred times more common.

Who do you trust with a weapon?

 

[AchtungNight]

I'm a brit and I jsut don't get the gun thing. *shrugs* I'm glad I live here where gun carrying is by and large illegal. I'll not try and argue my point, as I can see there is no point.

But Cat, starting a thread that states your laughing at someone elses principles and point of view seems a a bit, well more than a bit, not nice and decidedly immature.

But hey, I'm just a crazy Brit.

This crazy Texan somewhat agrees with you.

 

[SeaCat]

I'm a brit and I jsut don't get the gun thing. *shrugs* I'm glad I live here where gun carrying is by and large illegal. I'll not try and argue my point, as I can see there is no point.

But Cat, starting a thread that states your laughing at someone elses principles and point of view seems a a bit, well more than a bit, not nice and decidedly immature.

But hey, I'm just a crazy Brit.

El,

Nothing crazy about it.

It's kind of hard to explain but I shall try.

I have had a federal permit to carry concealed since I was 18. (I have had a permit to carry for longer than I didn't have one.) I rarely carry a firearm.

No I do not fear Firearms, I respect them. (I have seen first hand what they can do.)

I also believe very strongly that every person has the right to defend themselves against physical attack. (This is not a universaly heald opinion by the way.)

For 20+ years I lived in a state where if a person broke into your home and tripped over something thereby breaking a bone or otherwise injuring themselves you were liable. In that same state if a person broke into your home and you beat the living shit out of them it was then up to you to defend yourself in court, otherwise you faced getting convicted of Assault and Battery. In that same state you need a Firearms permit just to purchase and/or carry something like Mace or Pepper Spray. (Heaven forbid you even think of using it.)

I personally was brought up on charges when I came home from a call and found some guy had broken into our apartment and was trying to rape my wife. (He had cut the screen in an open window.) Yes I beat the hell out of him. Yes I broke several of his bones. Yes he admitted to the police that his intention was to have sex with my wife regardless of if she wanted to have sex with him or not. I was the one led out of there in cuffs, I was the one who had to spend the night, and several more in jail as my wife retained a lawyer for me. I was the one who had to prove in a Court of Law that I was defending my wife. It was only after this that the scumbag was arrested for attempted Rape.

Here in Florida you are allowed to defend yourself. If this had happened here in Florida the judge wouldn't have asked me why I attacked the poor defensless intruder, he would have asked why my wife didn't defend herself more.

Do I enjoy worrying about maybe shooting another person? No I do not. It is not something that you ever forget. (BTDT) Do I enjoy worrying about having to defend myself or someone I love? No I do not, but I will do so if I have to. (Maybe that's one of the reasons I moved?)

I wish, and I am honest about this, that we didn't have to worry about this. Unfortunately we do have to worry about it. (Even in England.)

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

You wanna protect yourself? Learn how to fight. Or better still - buy a sword! Compared to sissy-pansy gun fights, they're much more interesting to watch, and actually take a bit more skill than aiming practice.

And if you live in California, better than Pilates!

What style would you prefer? I am versed in Longsword, Foil and Sabre. (I have versions of each scattered around the place, including two types of Sabre. I would love to get my hands on a working model/copy of the old Roman sword.)

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

Rational or not, I'm a little bit scared of visiting a place where everyone and their mother is walking around with the tools to kill me concelaed on their person.

The most common blurt you hear from gun-huggers is "if guns are outlawed unly outlaws will have guns"

True. Now, define outlaw.

Most violent crimes are not committed by career criminals. They are committed by you and me. I've seen, over and over again, how thin the line is between being a law-abiding decent person, and a violent criminal. Walk down the street any given day, and you will see a handful of wife-beaters, one or two rapists and sexual predators, and not an insignificant amount of people who potentionally could snap under the wrong circumstances. You will not know who they are, because they look like any Joe and Jane. They have not done time, they have a clean police record. And although they are perhaps not as individually dangerous as the hardened criminal thug, they are a hundred times more common.

Who do you trust with a weapon?

Liar,

Who do I trust with a weapon?

Very few people actually, and yes that even includes family members, Police and members of the Military.

I do not advocate everyone carrying a weapon, but I do advocate everyone knowing how to and being allowed to defend themselves.

As I have stated above I have been able to carry for more years than I couldn't, but my favorite weapon is a collapsible Baton. (Actually the best weapon is the one between your ears.)

Okay so I am a strange assed Redneck. (Strange in that I don't have an arsenal of FireArms and don't believe in the inherent right of everyone to own firearms.)

Yes I believe in the right to carry. I also believe in the idea of increased training before and during the time of carrying. It is not enough to be able to hit the target half the time. A person who is allowed to carry must be able to determine when it is proper to employ or use their weapon. A person must also be able to use their weapon with reasonable accuracy even during times of stress. (Scary thought isn't that? Even the Police don't have enough training in this for my taste.)


Cat

 

[FallingToFly]

I not only have a concealed Carry Permit, I also have a rather nice Handgun. (It's actually kind of larg to carry concealed.)

I, because of my training and practice am quite good with it. I know from past experience what I can do with it.

Surprisingly for many, I rarely carry it. Even when I go into the more dangerouse areas.

Yes I do firmly believe in the rights of a person to protect themselves. I even believe in the rights of a person to kill another in the defense of themself.

That being said, my personal favorite weapon for home defense is a collapsable Steel Baton. If you break into my home you will quickly be within reach of my weapon, and with my training and vision you are now mine. (If you are armed with a firearm you might get off one shot, but I doubt it.)

Go ahead and sue me, you will not win. In this state I am allowed to defend myself with the most force needed and the courts will not question it. (The Castle Doctrine.)

As a person I have rights. The State of Florida has decided that the owner or resident has the right of defense, without running.

Maybe this is why our rate of violent crime is dropping across the state.

Cat

OMG, you have an ASP? I want one! I want one... and i'd have to have a concealed carry permit for it.. they were illegal without one at my last check.

 

[R. Richard]

Rational or not, I'm a little bit scared of visiting a place where everyone and their mother is walking around with the tools to kill me concelaed on their person.

The most common blurt you hear from gun-huggers is "if guns are outlawed unly outlaws will have guns"

True. Now, define outlaw.

In the area where I live, it is not uncommon to see reasonable adults openly carrying handguns as we have a snake problem in the area. If your local police tell you that the average guy can't hit a snake with a handgun, I would agree. However, rhe locals are FAR above average. As to "outlaw." In most of the US states, outlaw is a defined legal term. An outlaw is a non-person. An outlaw can be shot, stabbed and/or clubbed with NO legal penalty. Even in my area, outlawry is fairly rare.

Who do you trust with a weapon?

I trust me. I certainly do not trust the scumbags. I do not rely on my neighbors to provide help, if I can't provide help in return. I can and have stood up for my neighbors in the past. In one incident in the past I braced this asshole who was threatening my next door neighbor lady. I thought I was doing it by myself. However, the incident occured in the South. I had a half dozen armed neighbors standing with me by the end of the incident. By the time the scumbags showed up, the asshole was glad to see them. They would throw him in jail, but they would probably not shoot him. The neighbors were ready to shoot him.