Ridiculing the religious

[daughter]

Is it acceptable to poke fun at folks' beliefs?

I realize that there are religious fanatics whose actions and stances seem to draw considerable animosity to them, but I wonder how other folks who are religious, spiritual or otherwise feel when there is blanket ridicule about religion and practitioners.

If you are a believer in any faith, are you offended by these remarks? How does it feel to be among peers and friends with whom you have a common bond, and hear them casually spout off about dumb 'x' and their beliefs? Conversely, do you make fun of non-believers?

I once belonged to a community that was actually quite vicious about attacking the religious. Not that believers are perfect and complete innocents. In this particular community, it was atheists(not all) who seemed to take great pleasure in critizing and attacking individuals personally for their convictions.

I believe that spirituality is an intimate, personal matter. It disturbs me to witness this kind of behavior and attitudes. I neither preach to the masses to convert nor do I attack folks for their beliefs.

Whether it is mild ribbing or vehement assaults, I wonder why these slurs are tolerated.

In a climate of political correctness we fight against racism, sexism, ageism, all isms. But, religion seems to be something that is criticized as casually as commenting on the weather.

What are your opinions.

Peace,

daughter

 

[MidnightAngel]

I attend church/Mass. I do not consider myself a "religious" person, actually. I have my beliefs; I don't attempt to thrust them on other people, and I don't ridicule other religious beliefs. I have had discussions/debates/conversations regarding religion, but that's simply an exchange of viewpoints.

There are some religions which I simply don't understand and don't share the basic beliefs of. That doesn't mean that I would insult someone who has that belief. I just don't agree with them. I may argue/debate a point of a specific religion. The US constitution guarantees freedom for ALL religions.....that's a wonderful ideal. But you're right, Daughter, it doesn't seem to be practiced effectively.

I am not offended when someone takes issue with my religion or beliefs....I know what I believe, and that's what is important to me.

On a similar note: Perhaps if there were less violence in the world attributed to "God", "Allah" or religion in general, there would not be such hate and distrust for certain religious beliefs.

 

[mig]

I believe that spirituality is an intimate, personal matter. It disturbs me to witness this kind of behavior and attitudes. I neither preach to the masses to convert nor do I attack folks for their beliefs.

That part of your post says it for me.

 

[daughter]

like minds

I attend church/Mass. I do not consider myself a "religious" person, actually. I have my beliefs; I don't attempt to thrust them on other people, and I don't ridicule other religious beliefs. I have had discussions/debates/conversations regarding religion, but that's simply an exchange of viewpoints.

There are some religions which I simply don't understand and don't share the basic beliefs of. That doesn't mean that I would insult someone who has that belief. I just don't agree with them. I may argue/debate a point of a specific religion

MidnightAngel,

I, too, have my beliefs. I share your views on the matter. I am not offended by someone disagreeing with my faith or practices. What I find offensive is ridicule and personal attacks.

Frankly, if someone doesn't ask about my religious views, I don't bring them up. I'm very open to discussing them, but I wait till there is some interest or invitation to discuss it.

Hopefully, most of the time, I hope I am conducting myself in such a way that people belive I have principles and values that I try to adhere to in my daily life. That's what I believe matters most.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Astro]

Some atheists ridicule anyone with faith and and faith. However I dont think they will wage wars, burn people, drive people out of their homes and carry out terriost acts in the name of atheism.

Religion is an open war, Faith is a personal affair. I am not sure of teh philosopher (or whatever) who siad this, but I think it holds true in this day
'I think what you believe is stupid, but I will fight to the death for your right to belive it'

In this PC world, free speech allows people to speak freely about religion, if it is for or against.

 

[Marxist]

Ridiculing the religious....

....why the hell not?


Mig is right, your question implies that there is something wrong with humorously disagreeing with someone. Religion is almost always part politics no matter where it's practiced or by whom. So of course religion deserves to be roasted along the politics, sex, and your mom (I love momma jokes).

The question is ruined by the attitude of the question poser. Anybody got any good Amish jokes? Oh come on, it's not like they have computers or anything....

 

[Astro]

Please excuse the typos, I am having a very bad day.

Some atheists ridicule anyone with faith and any faith. However I dont think they will wage wars, burn people, drive people out of their homes and carry out terriost acts in the name of atheism.

Religion is an open war, Faith is a personal affair. I am not sure of the philosopher (or whatever) who said this, but I think it holds true in this day
'I think what you believe is stupid, but I will fight to the death for your right to belive it'

In this PC world, free speech allows people to speak freely about religion, if it is for or against.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Is it acceptable to poke fun at folks' beliefs?

I realize that there are religious fanatics whose actions and stances seem to draw considerable animosity to them, but I wonder how other folks who are religious, spiritual or otherwise feel when there is blanket ridicule about religion and practitioners.

If you are a believer in any faith, are you offended by these remarks?

I try not to be offended, I realize that most of the ridicule about my spirituality is motivated by ignorance. I attempt to educate people, not to convert them, but to help them find understanding. If they insist, I seperate myself from them. It's not spiritually healthy for me to constantly feel as if I need to justify or hide my beliefs.

How does it feel to be among peers and friends with whom you have a common bond, and hear them casually spout off about dumb 'x' and their beliefs? Conversely, do you make fun of non-believers?

I don't think I've made fun of anyone for their spiritual beliefs since I matured enough to recognize my own. I honestly believe that Truth is something we all define for ourselves and we have to follow the path that is true for us. Even if no one else understands our choice.

I once belonged to a community that was actually quite vicious about attacking the religious. Not that believers are perfect and complete innocents. In this particular community, it was atheists(not all) who seemed to take great pleasure in critizing and attacking individuals personally for their convictions.

I have a friend who is an atheist... actually lacks any spiritual beliefs at all. She is quite outspoken about her belief that only those of weak mind need to seek a spiritual answer. She's a big one for rolling her eyes at the mention of any sort of god, and referring to my spirituality as 'an attention ploy'. Mostly, we steer clear of the topic of religion/spirituality and we're fine. I've also had friends who were devoutly Christian, and they were totally focused on saving me from my heathen ways. I told them I respected their views, understood their passion, and would prefer that they leave me to my beliefs. Sometimes that works, sometimes friendships end.


I believe that spirituality is an intimate, personal matter. It disturbs me to witness this kind of behavior and attitudes. I neither preach to the masses to convert nor do I attack folks for their beliefs.

I feel the same way. It's MY spirituality, and I don't expect or ask anyone else to have the same beliefs. I do expect to be left to my own personal view of Truth. I do seek information and knowledge though. I'm interested in other paths, and why people follow them, from an intellectual standpoint. If people are willing to talk freely without criticism or conversion in mind, then I'm more than happy to share.

Whether it is mild ribbing or vehement assaults, I wonder why these slurs are tolerated.

In a climate of political correctness we fight against racism, sexism, ageism, all isms. But, religion seems to be something that is criticized as casually as commenting on the weather.

I think because it IS such a personal thing, everyone is convinced that their path is the RIGHT path. If they allow you to contiue in a different path, then that would imply that their path may not be the ONE after all. If they can convert/convince you, then it further validates the belief that they're correct.

There's a lot of insecurity surrounding religion, and unfortunately, religion has very little to do with spirituality. People tend to cling to the dogma of their religion, which teaches them that everyone else is wrong. They're not taught that most spiritual paths share common threads that tie them all together.

 

[daughter]

Marxist

What is in my attitude that you object to?

I attempted to be as tactful and as civil as possible. I do however have an opinion. Was I wrong to share it? I didn't argue that folks should be banned for what they say. I said it disturbed me.

And Marxist, I believe I also said that what disturb me most was blanket pot shots that are meant to insult and attack people personally.

I believe there is a big difference between yucking it with your friend and teasing her about her beliefs and telling someone he has to be insane for being a Catholic for instance.

How would you phrase the question differently?

Peace,

daughter

 

[Rubyfruit]

Another interesting topic, daughter. As an atheist, I obviously have my own take on it.

I don't ridicule other people's religions. I have posted "Kissing Hank's Ass," which I find to be a very funny parody on religion in general, while not attacking any one faith.

Mostly, I keep my atheist views to myself because, frankly, they aren't popular and most of my family (and the world) is religious to some degree.

I do have a problem with religions that proselytize, and I've stated that before. I do not try to convert people to believe the same way I do, and I find it highly offensive when others do.

I believe it's best to keep one's personal spiritual (or lack thereof) opinions to themselves for the most part.

 

[nasty]

I don't mind if a person wants to believe in God. I just find it freaky when someone will go to great lengths to try and make you believe.

 

[Black_Bird]

I tend to ridicule stupidity... If I have to over turn a few money changer's tables to get them to realize what hypocrites they are, then so be it.

Spirituality has never, is not, and will never be about the Book. The Book was the prophet's attempt to communicate what God had given to them; what God has given to them and what God gives to you may be totally different, yet equal in value.

Why judge another because of what God has given them? To do so debases what God has given the self appointed judge, making it valueless to everyone. This I ridicule.

 

[daughter]

Ruby and nasty

thanks for replying.

Ruby, great thing about discussion is that you can clarify your views. I laugh at parodies and I don't trip when my friends are clearly joking.

It's when it's mean-spirited that I feel the hair on my arms tickling. I have my peeves, too. I do consider myself spiritual but I have some unflattering thoughts of my own. I don't care for "bible thumpers". Don't preach to me about your way is the only way. That's a sure way of me tuning you out.

Hey, I have enough to do having my own relationship with God. What time do I have to spare to save you? Never mind I don't believe you need saving. I trust we have the same Source, and so far I don't think She needs my help getting you to do what you're suppose to be doing for you.

See why I don't share my views to quickly? LOL

Peace,

daughter

 

[Black_Bird]

I believe it's best to keep one's personal spiritual (or lack thereof) opinions to themselves for the most part.

Worship tends to be very community oriented... which makes it kinda hard just to keep your opinions to yourself.

I think it is important to be able to respect another person's choices. Some people can, other people can't. Some of those who can't are Pagan, some Christian, some Buddhist, some Athiest, some Satanist. Some of them who can are of those same religions.

I once knew a Satanist who befriended by best friend, a Christian. It was odd to see them together, as their beliefs contradicted each other - but they both were able to look past that and supported each other in times of need... and they never needed to keep their opinions to themselves, they just accepted each other's differences and agreed to disagree.

(Yes, back to my pet subject. Sorry if I'm boring anybody.)

 

[Texan]

Random thoughts

First, there is a difference between "proselytizing" and "evangelizing." Unfortunately, many evangelicals don't understand the difference in the terms, but most of those that do, are not in favor of attempts to proselytize others. I am not very evangelical in my beliefs or practices, even though I am a member of a mildly evangelical Christian denomination (United Methodist).

To attempt to proselytize, is to attempt to persuade someone with strongly held beliefs to change those beliefs. This applies to Christians who try to convert Muslims to Christianity, as well as to Baptists who try to convert Catholics to the Baptist denomination. (those are just examples).

Evangelical is different. To evangelize is to attempt to locate individuals with little or no spiritual belief system, and try to persuade them to believe as the evangelical believes. In theory, these people would be more receptive to the "message" the evangelical brings.

Attempts to proselytize are almost never successful, while legitimate evangelism is often successful. Problems arise and feelings get hurt when evangelical zeal is not tempered with common sense and respect for the beliefs of others.

Random thought number two. Humor is ALWAYS at the expense of someone. There is no such thing as humor that does not attack, berate, belittle or in some manner, make fun of someone or some group. (damn this would be a good thread)

Most people and groups of people accept that there are those that will use them as the object of their humor. Only when there is a serious outcry from a group does it become politically incorrect to use them as the object for humor.

damn... my wife just called and her car won't start... I gotta run...

 

[Marxist]

daughter, you've called for the English geek, you get the English geek. Normally, I'm not as careful as you in wording my posts because I don't expect to be taken that seriously, but your expectations of performance are much higher:

Is it acceptable to poke fun at folks' beliefs?
I realize that there are religious fanatics whose actions and stances seem to draw considerable animosity to them, but I wonder how other folks who are religious, spiritual or otherwise feel when there is blanket ridicule about religion and practitioners.



Do the fanatics consider themselves fanatics? Not likely. This paragraph is assumptive of the audience and THEIR position. It's prejudicial. The set-up implies that barring THOSE zealots of faith, we peaceniks deserve to be cut a wider swath. A more concise way to phrase it:

In a world of many religions and faiths, do you feel it's OK to make fun of a faith you don't personally believe in?


If you are a believer in any faith, are you offended by these remarks? How does it feel to be among peers and friends with whom you have a common bond, and hear them casually spout off about dumb 'x' and their beliefs? Conversely, do you make fun of non-believers?

Again, this is prejudicial. You offer up incomplete scenarios. In the first one, VICTIM. In the second one, SURROGATE VICTIM. In the third one, REVERSE VICTIMIZER. You left out the distinct possibility of earnest religious critic or INITIAL VICTIMIZER and the question of why.



You go on to bias and prejudice your thread by sharing your opinion while still asking the question. This is perfectly acceptable for someone like me. But you're different, you expect real answers to you queries. It's much better to wait (as you do many times) to share your opinion after asking a question so as to not lead the following opinions down the path that you personally picked. That is, unless all you really want to hear is a chorus of amens.

*takes off English geek beret and stows in closet for next year*

 

[Thumper]

My belief

God is too big for one religion.

Those who profess to have all the answers, have none.

Those who concentrate only on a "destination", will never arrive.

Truth isn't something you ever truly find, but must continually be sought. It is not in a book, or an icon, or in a building. It is inside us with only clues to it's nature it in these "things".

Being inside us, it is a personal thing, not a thing to be carried about like a banner to rally under, but more like a shawl to keep us warm and secure.

It is not a club to browbeat those who are different.

It is not political. It is above that.

Good thread Daughter.

 

[daughter]

Fair enough Marxist

Funny you should say I should wait till others have shared their opinions first. lol

I was criticized by someone else for not including my opinion with the initial post. What is a girl to do? lol

As for the descriptives. Cut me some slack. I didn't identify any specific groups and I was shooting for buzzwords folks readily identify with. Hell, you gave me credit for normally trying not to be prejudicial in composing my questions.

We all have prejudices, Marxist. It's how we act on them that's crucial. I didn't come into this 'holier than thou' or at least I attempt not to do so. If you got the perfect post, please share it.

Marxist, I never know when you are serious or joking with me. I gave an incomplete scenario? I gave one scenario. I'm not speaking about every situation. That's why there's a discussion. Share the other ones. I'm not a one woman act here. I'm looking for others to further the discussion.

If you want to argue my style, knock yourself out. If you disagree with my comments, cool. I'm not trying to convert you.

Peace,

daughter

 

[SilverVeil]

Re: like minds

I, too, have my beliefs. I share your views on the matter. I am not offended by someone disagreeing with my faith or practices. What I find offensive is ridicule and personal attacks.

Frankly, if someone doesn't ask about my religious views, I don't bring them up. I'm very open to discussing them, but I wait till there is some interest or invitation to discuss it.

Hopefully, most of the time, I hope I am conducting myself in such a way that people belive I have principles and values that I try to adhere to in my daily life. That's what I believe matters most.



[/B]

I am Wiccan, and when most people hear this, they immediately think of the movie " The Craft " and other such bull. I have a few small things I wear showing my faith, 2 small rings and a necklace, and most people think they are stars. This makes me laugh when that happens. If I am not asked, I don't share. It is a very personal thing to me, and unless someone takes the time to know me, it is not something I like to flaunt. I don't go in for the goth look, nor do I wear a lot of black. I love bright colors and things around me.

I do not like it when people tell me I am going to burn in hell for worshiping the devil. I don't worship the devil. I think the devil is evil and the cause of much of the hate in the world today. But still, a lot of Christians I meet in passing at my work who recognize the symbol I wear, believe it is their God given duty to inform me I am going to hell.

I would possibly be willing to listen to them more if they did not just spout out hatred for my choice of beliefs, and actually talk to me about what they believe and ask why I believe as I do. It is as if they are afraid of what they might hear. So they turn away after having their say.

I have one man who keeps asking when he can see me dance naked under the moon. Rather than feel flattered, I feel disgust. He has no interest in any ritual, he is just being lewd.

So I keep my belief to myself and try and live my life as best I can. Causing no harm to things.

I can think of no greater tragedy than when the end finally does come, if all the people who believe as they do find that it is all nothing. I don't think any God/Goddess would be happy with followers who gloat at others. Christian, Jewish, Buddist, Moslem, Wiccan/Pagan, Catholic, what have you. None of the dieties worshipped in these religions say to practice intolerence and hatred.

 

[WriterDom]

Some atheists ridicule anyone with faith and and faith. However I dont think they will wage wars, burn people, drive people out of their homes and carry out terriost acts in the name of atheism.

Not unless the government is an official sponsor of atheism. Then they just lock away believers for 20 years.

 

[lobito]

I don't mind if a person wants to believe in God. I just find it freaky when someone will go to great lengths to try and make you believe.

Nasty, one day YOU WILL PAY, for being a cornholer!

 

[Black_Bird]

Re: Re: like minds

I am Wiccan, and when most people hear this, they immediately think of the movie " The Craft " and other such bull. I have a few small things I wear showing my faith, 2 small rings and a necklace, and most people think they are stars. This makes me laugh when that happens. If I am not asked, I don't share. It is a very personal thing to me, and unless someone takes the time to know me, it is not something I like to flaunt. I don't go in for the goth look, nor do I wear a lot of black. I love bright colors and things around me.

I don't mean to be insulting, but just why is it that Wiccans, when ever they choose to mention their faith, feel they have to defend it? Of those who do not conform to mainstream beliefs, Wiccans just seem more afraid of persecution then the rest...

Relax - be yourself.

If anybody picks on you on these board for being different, Black_Bird the "Friendly Satanist" will be more then glad to rip them a new one.

 

[perks]

the only thing that ever bugs me about religions is the definitions.

I got caught up in this recently. I believed a label being used by the poster meant something entirely different<I still do>. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs or their spirituality, it is something that is important in people's lives no matter what they believe or don't. It's the labeling as I know it being defined in a different manner that threw me for a loop.

It is difficult for me to see labels as having more than one definition. To me fundamentalist means a certain thing, atheist means a certain thing, wicca means a certain thing, mormon means a specific thing....so on and so on. I only have my perspective and my experiences to define each of these things.

It took a couple of days for me to realize that labels are part of some people's belief system. And just because I was raised to see them in a black and white manner, doesn't mean they are not grey.

I don't think I ever would have been able to see that if It weren't for the debate process that took place in this forum.

I also think, if someone doesn't want themselves or what they think debated they shouldn't put it on a thread. You don't want to debate it, you don't want to defend it, you don't want to discuss it?....then why did you put it out there in the first place.

In this forum, you post, it's fair game for anyone and anything.

Believe what you will, defend what you want, be ready for the pain and the broadening of your horizons..

perky

 

[FlamingoBlue]

I have always been respectful of======>

people of faith as long as they are respectful and tolerant of those that believe differently than they do. Although I understand the need that some folks have to be involved in organized religion, my personal preference is to stay as far away from it as possible. It just isn't for me.

Like you and others here, Daughter, I consider myself to be a spiritual person. I am of the opinion that religious people believe in Hell and are afraid that they will wind up there. Spiritual people have already been to Hell and don't ever want to return there.

I find that most religions are fear based, ie. live your life this way or you will suffer the consequences. Spirituality seems to me to be love based, ie. live your life this way and your life and the lives of others
will be improved.

I believe that most religions try to point us in the same general direction but each of them believe that their path is the way to go. That's why, historically, so many people have died in the name of God. That's what I find to be the true obscenity about religion.

Do I make fun of people of faith?? No. Do I expect them to treat me the same?? Yes. Practically speaking, I believe that it is the religious folks who lack tolerance of those who are different than they are; not the other way around. They are the ones who are more likely to poke fun at "unbelievers" like me.


blue

 

[Marxist]

Re: Fair enough Marxist

I'm not trying to convert you.

You had me at "As-Salaam Alaikum..."