Reflections on Gentleman Doms

[Mei5ter]

I want structure and a safe place. But I also want to serve as a safe place for him.

Whilst I appreciate this may be an overly personal question, please can I ask what it means to "serve as a safe place for him?" Is it so that he can bring you things it wouldn't be appropriate for him to bring to anyone else?

 

[AlwaysDancing]

You do (all) realise that subs have ultimate control, right? They agree their limits, have a safe word, and so on.

This was not the plot. Yes. This is known.

 

[barefootgirl69]

You do (all) realise that subs have ultimate control, right? They agree their limits, have a safe word, and so on.

No, don't propagate this idea.

If we had it, we wouldn't want it. Doms also have limits of their own and they can use a safe word at any time, as well.

When two people are discussing their dynamic, both have a say before entering it and both consent to their part. One accepts their submission, one offers it up.

Also, using a safe word isn't a form of dominance. It's for safety and protection, both physically and mentally.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I didn't say it was.

You listed "has a safe word" in the examples of how a submissive has "ultimate control".

I'm simply explaining why I said what I said.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I was replying to what someone else said, not you.

I understand that. But "submissives have ultimate control" isn't true. So, I replied to you.

 

[cascadiabound]

Whilst I appreciate this may be an overly personal question, please can I ask what it means to "serve as a safe place for him?" Is it so that he can bring you things it wouldn't be appropriate for him to bring to anyone else?

Relationships are a two way street in my opinion. We are partners. I need and want him to be a safe place for me, the person I can confide in, the person I can rely on to listen to me, to help me problem solve and to be my ally.
Likewise - I want to be his refuge and support. The person he trusts to talk through stuff he's thinking about or struggling with. The person who is his biggest cheerleader and who does everything I can to help him be the best he can be, the person who knows what his goals and dreams are and who is by his side supporting him and creating opportunities for those things to be attained.

Partnership and safe haven for each other. It looks different from day to day. It evolves over years, but that's the base of it. For me. For us.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Beautifully said, @cascadiabound!

 

[cascadiabound]

I think I get this.

Let me know if I misinterpreted.

But for me … I crave a submissive to be my equal. Yeah, I gotta be on top and in control.

But out there in the world, control is an illusion and I want to take on the world with my gal who wants to take on the world with me.

This resonates for me.

 

[cascadiabound]

This seems on point for the conversation above.
Repost from @Cwtchseeker with thanks.

And maybe you'd like to add to this thread too?

 

[barefootgirl69]

Double loving that last post.

I don't think it contradicts my submission to want to nurture my guy. I want him to know he's loved by me. I want him to feel safe and cared for, and appreciated.

 

[Neanderthal247]

Relationships are a two way street in my opinion. We are partners. I need and want him to be a safe place for me, the person I can confide in, the person I can rely on to listen to me, to help me problem solve and to be my ally.
Likewise - I want to be his refuge and support. The person he trusts to talk through stuff he's thinking about or struggling with. The person who is his biggest cheerleader and who does everything I can to help him be the best he can be, the person who knows what his goals and dreams are and who is by his side supporting him and creating opportunities for those things to be attained.

Partnership and safe haven for each other. It looks different from day to day. It evolves over years, but that's the base of it. For me. For us.

Reading this conversation, I don't totally agree with everything, but do on some points.


I have a questions for you, would you want a man who shares his weakest moments ? Would you see him as powerful if he crumbles and breaks down? Would you see him as a leader, if you have to take over that mantle in his moments of weakness?


Not debating, just curious on the answers to these questions

 

[cascadiabound]

Reading this conversation, I don't totally agree with everything, but do on some points.


I have a questions for you, would you want a man who shares his weakest moments ? Would you see him as powerful if he crumbles and breaks down? Would you see him as a leader, if you have to take over that mantle in his moments of weakness?


Not debating, just curious on the answers to these questions

Some of the most powerful men and most effective leaders in my personal experience are also those who can be vulnerable at times. Yes, even tearful at times. Imo crying is human.

If that man is my partner, my lover, my equal as we take on the world together, yes... it is my honor and privilege to be with him and hold him together when he can't. It doesn't make him less powerful. It doesn't make him less worthy of my submission. In fact- to me, when he can show me all of him... his flaws and fears, his hurts and pain, he becomes more and more a man I can completely trust with my heart, my body and my soul. A man I want to give my submission to.

YMMV.

Just one woman's thoughts. Others will surely disagree.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I have a questions for you, would you want a man who shares his weakest moments ?

Yes, because he's human, just as I am. I don't expect perfection. By sharing, it means he trusts me to be the partner he needs at that moment.

Would you see him as powerful if he crumbles and breaks down?

Powerful? Does he have to be powerful to earn my submission? Being a leader doesn't necessarily mean powerful; it's consistency and wisdom, too.

Would you see him as a leader, if you have to take over that mantle in his moments of weakness?

Isn't that what a loving relationship is about? Being there for one another? Just because there's D/s involved doesn't mean it's all one sided, that the only one to be nurtured is the submissive. That would be draining and, probably, detrimental to the relationship.

 

[Neanderthal247]

Some of the most powerful men and most effective leaders in my personal experience are also those who can be vulnerable at times. Yes, even tearful at times. Imo crying is human.

If that man is my partner, my lover, my equal as we take on the world together, yes... it is my honor and privilege to be with him and hold him together when he can't. It doesn't make him less powerful. It doesn't make him less worthy of my submission. In fact- to me, when he can show me all of him... his flaws and fears, his hurts and pain, he becomes more and more a man I can completely trust with my heart, my body and my soul. I man I want to give my submission to.

YMMV.

Just one woman's thoughts. Others will surely disagree.

Thank you for answering that.

I am definitely not that man, I'll vent and share things that bother me, but I don't show crumbling or breaking down. It's something I can't show to anyone in the universe, I'm not built that way.


It's refreshing hearing your feelings on this

 

[cascadiabound]

Thank you for answering that.

I am definitely not that man, I'll vent and share things that bother me, but I don't show crumbling or breaking down. It's something I can't show to anyone in the universe, I'm not built that way.


It's refreshing hearing your feelings on this

I respect that and understand not everyone is built that way. I'd also say that with my life partner it was decades before I ever saw him cry. But he does show me who he is because he trusts me with his life, as I trust mine to him. And I value that deeply.

 

[Neanderthal247]

Thank you for answering that.

I am definitely not that man, I'll vent and share things that bother me, but I don't show crumbling or breaking down. It's something I can't show to anyone in the universe, I'm not built that way.


It's refreshing hearing your feelings on this

I respect that and understand not everyone is built that way. I'd also say that with my life partner it was decades before I ever saw him cry. But he does show me who he is because he trusts me with his life, as I trust mine to him. And I value that deeply.

Just to be clear, I don't see showing emotions and sharing as weaknesses. To me showing panic and not having a course of action as weakness. Totally breaking down is not an option for me, if you see it, it's because you walked in on it and I will change my reaction.

 

[Endless_Night]

I understand that. But "submissives have ultimate control" isn't true. So, I replied to you.

I'm curious as to the strength of your response on this, bfg.

I've heard this view expressed before, that "submissives have ultimate control" and I don't disagree in principle. The submissive does cede control to the Dominant, but if she doesn't choose to cede to the Dominant in question there is no dynamic.

I know that I am very picky about entering into power exchange. I do see myself as the one who is responsible for making that final leap. (I mean, the guy has to be on board, obviously. )

I need patience. It's a big step. Because I will be handing over control, and I confess, I do see that as the ultimate controlling choice.

Would you clarify your perspective a little more? I'm interested.

 

[cascadiabound]

Just to be clear, I don't see showing emotions and sharing as weaknesses. To me showing panic and not having a course of action as weakness. Totally breaking down is not an option for me, if you see it, it's because you walked in on it and I change my reaction.

I guess I was never talking about panic or failure to be able to pivot in an emergency.

However... as a health care professional I have witnessed all kinds of people in full blown panic. Which is a whole different thing and even the most controlled person can experience it if the right set of circumstances occur. It is often mistaken for a heart attack it is so overwhelmingly serious.

 

[Endless_Night]

I have a questions for you, would you want a man who shares his weakest moments ? Would you see him as powerful if he crumbles and breaks down? Would you see him as a leader, if you have to take over that mantle in his moments of weakness?

I'll echo what others have said. To have an immutable partner, that shows no weariness, no pain, no grief, no sadness, would put the bond in question. Where is your value in the relationship if you have nothing to offer but your submission? That's a core tenet of human bonding is reciprocity and the knowledge that you are needed and wanted in many ways.

I'm not built that way.

Everyone is built different. Everyone needs support in different ways. That's what makes finding someone who fits with you such a wonder.

 

[barefootgirl69]

I'm curious as to the strength of your response on this, bfg.

I've heard this view expressed before, that "submissives have ultimate control" and I don't disagree in principle. The submissive does cede control to the Dominant, but if she doesn't choose to cede to the Dominant in question there is no dynamic.

I know that I am very picky about entering into power exchange. I do see myself as the one who is responsible for making that final leap. (I mean, the guy has to be on board, obviously. )

I need patience. It's a big step. Because I will be handing over control, and I confess, I do see that as the ultimate controlling choice.

Would you clarify your perspective a little more? I'm interested.

My perspective is that the dynamic is consented to by both adults. One choses to submit, one choses to dominate. You can't have one without the other. You give your power to him when you accept his dominance. Doesn't mean you're weak.

If you walked up to someone and said, "I submit to you." - doesn't mean someone has to dominate you.

In a power dynamic, if you've given your submission, do you really think it's with the caveat that you can take it back anytime, just because you have that power? You can. But, a dom can decide not to dom, too. So, who has the most power? No one.

It's an agreed on relationship.

 

[Endless_Night]

My perspective is that the dynamic is consented to by both adults. One choses to submit, one choses to dominate. You can't have one without the power.

If you walked up to someone and said, "I submit to you." - doesn't mean someone has to dominate you.

In a power dynamic, if you've given your submission, do you really think it's with the caveat that you can take it back anytime, just because you have that power? You can. But, a dom can decide not to dom, too. So, who has the most power? No one.

It's an agreed on relationship.

Hmmm. Interesting. I see your point.

I wonder if perhaps the other view rose to prominence with the push for consent. That was a continuing topic in BDSM a decade or so back, pertaining to submissives allowing themselves to be abused, and continuously finding themselves abused, as many felt they had no power once submission was given.

Thank you for the answer.

 

[barefootgirl69]

Hmmm. Interesting. I see your point.

I wonder if perhaps the other view rose to prominence with the push for consent. That was a continuing topic in BDSM a decade or so back, pertaining to submissives allowing themselves to be abused, and continuously finding themselves abused, as many felt they had no power once submission was given.

Thank you for the answer.

I think that happens in some instances, there's always a chance of abuse in any relationship. It's why everyone should take their time and get to know one another, and TALK...about everything.

Maybe saying it this way makes it more clear?

I don’t like the way it’s phrased, and I don’t like the way it dehumanizes Doms and Tops, to make them inconsequential. To say that one person in a relationship has all the power, is to say that the other person has none, and that is never a good thing.

 

[EvaLane]

So this just came across my Tumblr dashboard and I thought I'd share:

(I came across a ‘writing’ on Fet from a man named Master James from Australia. As a submissive, I think he got it right on & asked him if I could use a few of his writings for “advice posts”. He graciously agreed. If you’re on fet, check them out.-more to come.)

A lot of people seem to want authority; they crave the power, the position of control, to be able to exert their will…. But most don’t know how to handle it. Like most people when given unbridled power, they become cruel, harsh, unkind, cold, and distant.

But this isn’t what a Dominant should be. A Dom should be a father, an older brother, a guide, a protector, a teacher. A Dom should ALWAYS have the best interest of the Submissive at heart.

Being a Dom isn’t about canning, whipping, flogging, or ordering people around. They are the requirements of a Sadist and an egomaniac.

Sadism and Masochism are regularly confused with Dominance and Submission. Let me make this clear; they are separate predispositions that may or may not coincide with Dominant and Submissive orientation.

Being a Dominant is about taking responsibility. About stepping up to the plate and saying; “My shoulders are big enough to bear the weight, to accept the responsibility that comes with taking control.”

A Dominant is a leader, a doer not a talker; someone who is willing and ready to provide another person with what they need.

A Dominant needs to know and accept that many Submissives will appear in a manner that the Dom might perceive to be needy. If the Dom isn’t happy to accept the emotional needs of the Submissive, then the Dom isn’t ready to take ownership of a Submissive.

A selfish person can never truly be a Dom. They are a child in an adult’s body. A cruel Dom is nothing more than a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants and playing God.

Does this mean that Sadists are bad? No it doesn’t. A sadist is the perfect counterbalance to a masochist. Since many Subs are also masochists, then a sadist Dom will fit perfectly. But when the sadistic Dom inflicts pain upon the masochistic Sub, the primary motivation should be giving the Sub what he/she needs; the pleasure that the Dom gets out of the act must remain secondary.
This rule holds true for all fun D/S activities, whether it be; humiliation, degradation, or sexual acts/intercourse.

The reason that a Dom will control the orgasms of a Sub is because the Sub yearns to be controlled. Not because the Dom selfishly doesn’t want to see the Sub pleasured. The Submissive needs to feel that a reward has been earned.
Submissives will rebel, fight back, be disobedient, bratty, insubordinate, and just like a child they will generally test the limits of the Dominant. This is where the good Dominant shines, he/she won’t feel threatened, and they won’t loose control, or become emotional. This is an opportunity where a Dominant can display why they are in charge, and why the Submissive can trust them with control of their lives.

Correction, discipline, and punishment should be structured, fair, controlled, un-emotive, and relevant. It will reinforce the rules, the need for the rules, and the positions of Dom and Sub. It will give the Submissive what all Subs crave; a feeling of safety within the confines a caring D/S relationship with clear boundaries and rules. Afterwards the Sub should feel a positive sense of purpose and direction, knowing that the Dominant is striving to achieve the absolute best for the Sub.

The D/S relationship needs to maintain balance. For every slap of the hand, swing of the flogger, or stroke of the cane, it needs to be equally counter balanced with a kiss, a hug, a stoke of the hair, and a whisper of a kind word.

A good Dom genuinely wants to see the submissive, grow, and improve as both a person and as a Sub. As such the Dom won’t just use the power granted him/her by the D/S relationship for sexual gains or amusement; they will endeavour to institute rules and instructions that will break bad habits, provide the Sub direction, focus and drive, and generally enrich the life of the Sub.

Not a guide on the one true way: Just some thoughts…….

Master James

The link

So sorry if this is bad forum etiquette (this comment is 10+ years old ) but I thought this was very relevant to where I am now and maybe someone else would enjoy reading it

 

[Endless_Night]

I don’t like the way it’s phrased, and I don’t like the way it dehumanizes Doms and Tops, to make them inconsequential. To say that one person in a relationship has all the power, is to say that the other person has none, and that is never a good thing.

Oh, I totally get your point.

It's a mature outlook on an interpersonal power exchange relationship.

I just get where the other comes from, too. The dynamic is fluid and difficult to navigate as a beginner, and I've seen many, even on Lit, express the idea that dominance is complete control. Submissives are the ones most likely to suffer under those auspices.

 

[cascadiabound]

So sorry if this is bad forum etiquette (this comment is 10+ years old ) but I thought this was very relevant to where I am now and maybe someone else would enjoy reading it

There are quite a lot of gems, like this one, on this thread.

Maybe you'd like to share a little about why that post resonated with you and how your thoughts on this are currently evolving/becoming more clear.

Please? And thanks