Reflections on Gentleman Doms

[DesEsseintes]

This all seems so very convoluted, these discussions and threads, regarding something that, to me, has always felt so simple.

I know what you mean. I think the truth is that D/s is both complex and simple, depending on one's perspective and the level at which one analyses it. An analogy in some regards might be with sport. Throwing a ball into a hoop is simple - almost mindless - but the calculations which allow us to perform it are far too complex to be performed consciously. Similarly, the dance of need and desire, control and submission, within a harmonious D/s couple will seem impossibly difficult to many outsiders, and laughably simple to those involved. It becomes instinctive.

But when instinct breaks down, or when we are faced with a new situation, it is important that we also understand the mechanics of our unique relationship - the stress fractures that might irrupt into our carefully balanced bliss; the whole unspoken quid pro quo of every mature relationship. That, for me at least, is why I think it is important to discuss and debate: because there will come a time when we do what we have always done and it no longer works. That's when our conscious, analytical Domination comes in. But most of the time it isn't necessary when things are working well.

Thank you Tim and Des. I am truly grateful for being able to glean from your knowledge, but more importantly, I truly just enjoy the glimpse into your beautiful minds.

My mind is largely empty. I picture it as a silent library full of leather-bound volumes, and an occasional bronchial old man coughing discreetly over his Loeb editions. But if that can be beautiful to you then I can only say thank you.

 

[All_4_Love]

My mind is largely empty. I picture it as a silent library full of leather-bound volumes, and an occasional bronchial old man coughing discreetly over his Loeb editions. But if that can be beautiful to you then I can only say thank you.

You will always be beautiful to me, Des. Just simply because of who and what you are.

And, you're welcome. *hugs*

 

[sereneone4u]

I wish you two came around more

Aww thanks.

I always enjoy interacting with you.

KIB is working on his PHd and I am homeschooling my little girl and in multiple therapies to recover from my stroke. We just moved too and I am finishing up unpacking. Plus my daughter is involved in lots of activities as usual. She is very extroverted and I am so introverted.

I wished you would have been on Lit before this last year or so, it used to be way more fun, light-hearted.

 

[JennyNo1]

Thanks to Lexie & Tim for their discussions. They made me back up and take another look at someone and make a different decision than I thought I was going to aat first.

 

[All_4_Love]

Aww thanks.

I always enjoy interacting with you.

KIB is working on his PHd and I am homeschooling my little girl and in multiple therapies to recover from my stroke. We just moved too and I am finishing up unpacking. Plus my daughter is involved in lots of activities as usual. She is very extroverted and I am so introverted.

I wished you would have been on Lit before this last year or so, it used to be way more fun, light-hearted.

I am so happy for you, lady. I don't want to assume, but it sounds as if you and KIB are physically together now? If so, I am so very excited. Lit has proven to be a wonderful place in that case.

You are much too young to suffer health problems from a stroke and I am terribly sorry to hear this happened to you.

My daughters are extroverted as well, raised by a painfully introverted mommy. Their extracurricular events are always dreadful to me.

I remember when I first separated from my husband and had to start a second job, I was worried how I was going to get them back and forth to practice. One of my dear close friends said to me "Well, can't you just ask one of the other moms for help?" My response was "Moms? Other moms? Are you kidding? You know I'm terrible at socializing! How can I befriend other moms? Beside, I spend all of my free time buried in books, not talking!"

 

[lexieredefined]

Thanks to Lexie & Tim for their discussions. They made me back up and take another look at someone and make a different decision than I thought I was going to aat first.

I'll take no credit in the decision, but I hope whatever it was is one that brings good things.

 

[Callmetim]

Thank you, Tim. Your detailed response is appreciated. You bring up sadist/masochist, is that a whole nother realm, or layer, that's not necessarily included?

Think of these things as circles that can overlap at the edges, a Venn diagram. One person might be a dominant sadist, another submissive masochist, another only dominant without pain play, another only submissive without pain play, someone might be a switch who is both dominant and submissive AND a sadomasochist enjoying giving and receiving pain.

If that was not confusing enough, within each circle, there are different degrees of color. One might want a little pain, another might want enough pain to make them cry. One might want their arse to be pink, another to be made to bleed. One may be dominant in just spanking, another dominant will tie you down to a St. Andrew's cross and force you undergo as many orgasms as your body can tolerate. One submissive may just want to kneel and give oral upon request, one wants to be collared, forced down, their entire body at the whim of their owner.

I believe it is all under the umbrella, within the realm of BDSM, but every layer can be made thick, thin or non-existent based on the person. That is why communicating with your partner is so critical. Talk to them and try to figure out where you want to go and who each of you are. You may find you have divergent views, so it is important to remain open minded or else you can severely damage the person who is bearing their soul to you as you crush their fantasies and label them as a sexual deviant. If I'm up here and you're down here, let's try to meet in the middle or start out slow and see if we can find a happy medium through time and patience. An impatient domin-ain't is a very dangerous thing indeed.

Each D/s relationship is different just like vanilla and I what constitutes a healthy relationship in both spheres are the same.

Thanks Des and Tim for sharing your insight.

Hi serene, great to see you on here!

This is it exactly, both people bring what they have to a relationship and create a new, different third in their union.

Thank you for your kind words, as always. I think Des and I will open a Dom clinic, a literal train the trainer. But then the dominants would have to submit to us, which could get rather philosophically complex.

You don't happen to have a twin brother living in Australia, do you? The man I'm looking for sounds an awful lot like you.

*looks up roundtrip airfare to Perth for $1,700*

I've always wanted to visit Australia ... you can show me the ropes right before I use them on you, though it sounds like some stainless steel chains with copious skin contact might suit you best ...

Thank you for saying this. If you do meet my twin brother, I might take his place unsuspectingly.

I think the man a lot of women are looking for sounds a lot like him.

Now if I could just find women like you two, we'd be all set ... even better at the same time.

Thank you for saying so.

Thanks to Lexie & Tim for their discussions. They made me back up and take another look at someone and make a different decision than I thought I was going to at first.

So long as I don't get any hate PMs, we are good.

As I will continually mention, communication is first and foremost. Everyone's ideas of what BDSM, D/s, sadist and masochist behavior is are completely different. Compare, contrast, discuss, read, share, air out everything you possibly can before jumping into any form of control with someone. The faster each of you is able to define who you are and what degrees of each layer you want, the easier it will be moving forward. Things change, even hard limits which one person might not think they would ever like could become a new kink for them. A dominant might, with ample communication, push limits a bit; a domin-ain't will break those limits without a word. Keep things fluid, re-evaluate, explore and enjoy the freedom to be yourself.

I wish you the best of luck Jenny and I'm more than willing to assist you or anyone else via PM.

 

[sereneone4u]

I am so happy for you, lady. I don't want to assume, but it sounds as if you and KIB are physically together now? If so, I am so very excited. Lit has proven to be a wonderful place in that case.

You are much too young to suffer health problems from a stroke and I am terribly sorry to hear this happened to you.

My daughters are extroverted as well, raised by a painfully introverted mommy. Their extracurricular events are always dreadful to me.

I remember when I first separated from my husband and had to start a second job, I was worried how I was going to get them back and forth to practice. One of my dear close friends said to me "Well, can't you just ask one of the other moms for help?" My response was "Moms? Other moms? Are you kidding? You know I'm terrible at socializing! How can I befriend other moms? Beside, I spend all of my free time buried in books, not talking!"

Sorry I did not write that clearly. KIB and I are married to other people but each knows about the other. My spouse, daughter and myself moved a little over two weeks ago. He and I are very much together as dear friends and as Dominant/submissive. It is a beautiful thing, for sure. Yes, I am. It is the stress they tell me. I have had really bad things happen since last October for every month. I feel like I am in my own version of the Hunger Games with the clock ticking and each hour bringing a fresh new horror.

Yes, I am told by my spouse that I am guarded and too honest and people don't like that in addition to being an introvert.

I am hoping my Sir will respond, I think he would add to the discussion wonderfully.

 

[sereneone4u]

Think of these things as circles that can overlap at the edges, a Venn diagram. One person might be a dominant sadist, another submissive masochist, another only dominant without pain play, another only submissive without pain play, someone might be a switch who is both dominant and submissive AND a sadomasochist enjoying giving and receiving pain.

If that was not confusing enough, within each circle, there are different degrees of color. One might want a little pain, another might want enough pain to make them cry. One might want their arse to be pink, another to be made to bleed. One may be dominant in just spanking, another dominant will tie you down to a St. Andrew's cross and force you undergo as many orgasms as your body can tolerate. One submissive may just want to kneel and give oral upon request, one wants to be collared, forced down, their entire body at the whim of their owner.

I believe it is all under the umbrella, within the realm of BDSM, but every layer can be made thick, thin or non-existent based on the person. That is why communicating with your partner is so critical. Talk to them and try to figure out where you want to go and who each of you are. You may find you have divergent views, so it is important to remain open minded or else you can severely damage the person who is bearing their soul to you as you crush their fantasies and label them as a sexual deviant. If I'm up here and you're down here, let's try to meet in the middle or start out slow and see if we can find a happy medium through time and patience. An impatient domin-ain't is a very dangerous thing indeed.



Hi serene, great to see you on here!

This is it exactly, both people bring what they have to a relationship and create a new, different third in their union.

Thank you for your kind words, as always. I think Des and I will open a Dom clinic, a literal train the trainer. But then the dominants would have to submit to us, which could get rather philosophically complex.



*looks up roundtrip airfare to Perth for $1,700*

I've always wanted to visit Australia ... you can show me the ropes right before I use them on you, though it sounds like some stainless steel chains with copious skin contact might suit you best ...

Thank you for saying this. If you do meet my twin brother, I might take his place unsuspectingly.



Now if I could just find women like you two, we'd be all set ... even better at the same time.

Thank you for saying so.



So long as I don't get any hate PMs, we are good.

As I will continually mention, communication is first and foremost. Everyone's ideas of what BDSM, D/s, sadist and masochist behavior is are completely different. Compare, contrast, discuss, read, share, air out everything you possibly can before jumping into any form of control with someone. The faster each of you is able to define who you are and what degrees of each layer you want, the easier it will be moving forward. Things change, even hard limits which one person might not think they would ever like could become a new kink for them. A dominant might, with ample communication, push limits a bit; a domin-ain't will break those limits without a word. Keep things fluid, re-evaluate, explore and enjoy the freedom to be yourself.

I wish you the best of luck Jenny and I'm more than willing to assist you or anyone else via PM.

Thank you.

Good to see you back.

Hope things have been well.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

kitty bumps

 

[MSH2]

kitty bumps

How about Laird Doms?

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

How about Laird Doms?

*giggles*

yup.

that works, too.......but only if you put on a kilt.

 

[MSH2]

*giggles*

yup.

that works, too.......but only if you put on a kilt.

Damn.

 

[Leigh81]

How about Laird Doms?

How about Dom Perignon??

L

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Damn.

or a bathtowel.

here--you strip, I'll hold the towel and hand it to you after you're nekkid.

mkay?

How about Dom Perignon??

L

^5

 

[Leigh81]

If Dom DeLuise was a dom, would he be known as Dom Dom Deluise??
Now I'm getting kooky.

L

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

If Dom DeLuise was a dom, would he be known as Dom Dom Deluise??
Now I'm getting kooky.

L

he he

he's funny!

 

[Callmetim]

If Dom DeLuise was a dom, would he be known as Dom Dom Deluise??
Now I'm getting kooky.

L

No more kooky than when the professional baseball team the Angels were in Los Angeles. They were the Los Angeles Angels.

Literally translated, they were the The Angels Angels.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

No more kooky than when the professional baseball team the Angels were in Los Angeles. They were the Los Angeles Angels.

Literally translated, they were the The Angels Angels.

I saw your name and clicked on the thread, expecting to find you'd left some really meaningful comment regarding D/s.

The Angels Angels. Yeah.

*giggles*

 

[Kveldulf]

I saw this thread for the first time tonight, and I read completely through it. I find it fascinating and validating.

For years, other men who self-identify as Doms, both in RL and online, have disagreed with me that a Dom can be both a Dom and a gentleman. In such circumstance, I have patiently tried to explain that dominance does not equate to treating a submissive as a lesser being, and that control does not equate to breaking a submissive down. The response I usually received to what I perceived to be my rational arguments was that I just did not understand because I was not a "real" Dom. I quit associating with the BDSM community several years ago because of issues like this. The few times I have ventured onto the BDSM board here, I have found most of the posters to be worse than even those I knew in RL.

I have been in five D/s relationships in my life (six if I count the woman who thought she was a sub but was really a masochist, but that ended so poorly I do not count it). They have all been different. In each one, I had to find the best path to the discipline and control that my partner needed (and yes, I consider submissives to be partners - this was an area in which I found that so-called "real" Doms often disagreed with me). I have never tried to make anyone fit a pre-determined mold of how I believe a submissive should act. However, that is not to say there were not certain behaviors I have expected from every submissive with whom I have had a relationship - I just knew it was my responsibility to find the right way to bring each of them to those behaviors.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

nice topic, honey!
i'll share my thoughts when i meet one

elli?

did you have something that you wanted to say, now?

 

[Callmetim]

I saw this thread for the first time tonight, and I read completely through it. I find it fascinating and validating.

Kv, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts on thread and welcome.

I believe there are many more of "us" out there that Dom without degradation or with a tyrannical fist, or belt, as the case may be. As I've mentioned, there are those who prefer that level of dominance in their dynamic and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I, however, have enjoyed finding like minded others on both sides of the D/s forward slash.

 

[elli1]

elli?

did you have something that you wanted to say, now?

i think i already blurted some in here....

 

[sereneone4u]

I saw this thread for the first time tonight, and I read completely through it. I find it fascinating and validating.

For years, other men who self-identify as Doms, both in RL and online, have disagreed with me that a Dom can be both a Dom and a gentleman. In such circumstance, I have patiently tried to explain that dominance does not equate to treating a submissive as a lesser being, and that control does not equate to breaking a submissive down. The response I usually received to what I perceived to be my rational arguments was that I just did not understand because I was not a "real" Dom. I quit associating with the BDSM community several years ago because of issues like this. The few times I have ventured onto the BDSM board here, I have found most of the posters to be worse than even those I knew in RL.

I have been in five D/s relationships in my life (six if I count the woman who thought she was a sub but was really a masochist, but that ended so poorly I do not count it). They have all been different. In each one, I had to find the best path to the discipline and control that my partner needed (and yes, I consider submissives to be partners - this was an area in which I found that so-called "real" Doms often disagreed with me). I have never tried to make anyone fit a pre-determined mold of how I believe a submissive should act. However, that is not to say there were not certain behaviors I have expected from every submissive with whom I have had a relationship - I just knew it was my responsibility to find the right way to bring each of them to those behaviors.

I think this is why I kept my submissiveness locked away, not really giving it to anyone until KalIsBack. I don't believe in the thought that a submissive is to be a doormat, a lesser being and is the one to give while the Dom just takes. Although I must say I feel KiB gives more and I take more but he assures me that I do not.

 

[All_4_Love]

Kv, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts on thread and welcome.

I believe there are many more of "us" out there that Dom without degradation or with a tyrannical fist, or belt, as the case may be. As I've mentioned, there are those who prefer that level of dominance in their dynamic and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I, however, have enjoyed finding like minded others on both sides of the D/s forward slash.

I would like to chime in with my thoughts here, if I may.

I'm not speaking of Doms that are abusive, as we all know that type of destructiveness is never okay.

I do want to address, however, that there is a flip side to the belief that if a Dom IS tyrannical, or degrading, or punishes with a belt, that he is somehow not a good Dom either. There are different sides to this and it is a spectrum.

As a submissive masochist, there is the mentality that to endure pain is to suffer for him. That is why for someone like myself, I do not enjoy the pain, per se. It is the relinquishing of control, the desire to suffer for him, to withstand whatever he has to dish out. I couldn't ask someone to inflict pain or degradation for my enjoyment. He would have to want it and desire it in order for me to endure, and ultimately enjoy, it. I would crave it because it pleased him.

Just my thoughts, and perhaps a bit of defending where Doms that fall on the more extreme end of the spectrum are concerned. I still would consider him a gentleman. He is no less of a gentleman, in my eyes, for wielding a belt than he is a bouquet of roses.