Reaching out. (Help?)

[Daxaeha]

I'll start with my name, I guess.
I'm Dax. I'm young and aware of it at a tender 19. (female)
I came across this site while looking for ...answers.

I'm a semi-single mother who's about to wander off to college. I hope to one day counsel the tourtured youth that are lost in the Canadian justice system. I am separated from my child's father (we're still really good friends, though) and am in a brand new relationship with a 22 year old male whom I will call Jake.

I have been interested in the dominant/submissive lifestyle for a very long time. I was having strange dreams before I had even really discovered masturbation. I lost my virginity at just shy of 15 years and have been experimenting ever since but very mildly do to partner limitation.

My problem is that, now that I know what I'm looking for, I'm realizing how hard it is to find it, or even someone who is curious enough to delve with me. I am looking for guiedence, someone with more experience that is open to discussing the subject without taking advatage or being a horn-dog about it.

If I have come to the wrong place, just say so.

(Also, I'm not sure how to classify myself with all of the labels I've seen used while skimming comments. What I can say is that I'd like to say I'm a sub but outside of curiosity I have no solid proof of that.)

 

[seela]

Hi and welcome, Daxaeha!

You've definitely come to the right place, if what you're seeking is honest discussion!

I'm sure you'll get many PMs offering you the guidance you said you need (if you have turned your PM function on, that is), but in my opinion it's better to ask your questions on the forum. That way you'll get answers from many people and you'll get to see more than one viewpoints. Some of them may resonate with your ideas more than others, but it's never a bad thing to get more information, around which you can base your own thoughts.

Get to know people a bit on the forum at first by posting yourself and reading what other people have to say, then maybe sent a PM to someone you feel like would be a good match for you for exchanging thoughts and talking about things. Most people have nothing against receiving private messages - as long as they're friendly.

Don't get too stuck on labels, especially as you're only starting to explore this world. People define things differently and even for one person the label changes as the person changes as well. We use PYL and pyl acronymes a lot here. They both mean Pick Your Label: the one in all caps (PYL) refers to dominants/masters/mistresses/tops/owners/daddies/mommies/etc. and the one in lower case (pyl) refers to subs/slaves/bottoms/pets/littles/etc. That way everyone can feel included in the conversation without having to spell out all the possible labels people use.

There's a sticky on top of this forum, our very own BDSM Library. You'll find many threads categorized by the topic there, with a lot of thoughtfull (and sometimes not so thoughtfull) discussion and also opinions of people, who no longer frequent this corner of the cyber world.

Read a lot and don't hesitate to participate - we're a nice bunch, really, even if we quarrel from time to time.

Once again, welcome!

 

[SpiritRider]

Exactly what seela said...
The first thing you need to question is why a PM was sent without offering assistance in a more public manner?

Be patient, don't jump at the first one that seems sincere, never assume anything. How's that for a first lesson?

 

[xssve]

Welcome to BDSM, it's really actually harder to find the right person than it is in vanilla - some people give up, although they usually come crawling back eventually.

But you summed it up: it's not that hard to find partners if any pervert will do, but finding that special pervert often takes time.

First step is just getting your own priorities straight: you want to play and explore? Not a prob, but if you want that in the context of a committed relationship, it narrows things down considerably in your age range.

And, you should give some thought as to what your limits are, even if those change over time, it can often frustrate a man to hear what you want, oddly, it's sometimes easier just to hear what it is you don't want, as long as it's not like a really long list, and most, though not all men, will take it as a challenge anyway, and at least we know what you'll complain about in advance.

In any case, you'll probably have to date some, and you should, perhaps investigate whether there is a local community and attend a munch, though bear in mind, like anything else, whether or not that is a positive experience for you depends much on the particular people involved - don't judge everybody, in a college town or any large urban area, there should probably be more than one group so if it gets ugly, just look for another group.

Fet should have information on groups in your area.

 

[DVS]

I'll start with my name, I guess.
I'm Dax. I'm young and aware of it at a tender 19. (female)
I came across this site while looking for ...answers.

I'm a semi-single mother who's about to wander off to college. I hope to one day counsel the tourtured youth that are lost in the Canadian justice system. I am separated from my child's father (we're still really good friends, though) and am in a brand new relationship with a 22 year old male whom I will call Jake.

I have been interested in the dominant/submissive lifestyle for a very long time. I was having strange dreams before I had even really discovered masturbation. I lost my virginity at just shy of 15 years and have been experimenting ever since but very mildly do to partner limitation.

My problem is that, now that I know what I'm looking for, I'm realizing how hard it is to find it, or even someone who is curious enough to delve with me. I am looking for guiedence, someone with more experience that is open to discussing the subject without taking advatage or being a horn-dog about it.

If I have come to the wrong place, just say so.

(Also, I'm not sure how to classify myself with all of the labels I've seen used while skimming comments. What I can say is that I'd like to say I'm a sub but outside of curiosity I have no solid proof of that.)

Well, you've already started some of the creeps to salivating because you mentioned you're new, you're young, and you're female. There should be nothing wrong with saying that, but that just tends to bring out the fakes, wannabees and posers. If you haven't already, you will probably get a fair share of PMs from that crew. Be wise and wary about PMs you get from men who say they know what you need or what you want...or what you deserve.

Like SpiritRider has said, it's usually best to ask your questions in the BDSM forum than in a PM setting. Sure, there will be times when some PMs will be OK, but for the most part, in threads like this will be the best way to get your answers. You'll have more people reading and more people commenting so you'll have a lot of information and experiences to pick and choose from. And like seela has said, don't worry about labels. The PYL and pyl labels will do nicely for a while. You'll have time to figure out more, but for now, don't worry about it.

Read stories you like, ask questions about things you don't understand, and experiment with things you want to try. This is the exploratory stage of your journey. This is when you discover what you enjoy. That's why you need to read stories. Find stories that turn you on and then figure out why you enjoy them. What is it about the story that turns you on? Maybe a story won't totally do it for you, but you find parts of it are interesting. There's enough stories here on Lit that you should be able to fine tune your desires.

You say you think it's safe to say you're a sub. That's a starting point. But there are subs and then there are subs, so once you decide more about what you like, you will then need to start to list your limits. That's soft and hard limits. Those lists will help you when you seek out a partner. These lists will be things you haven't done for some reason but might be interested in if the time feels right (soft) and things that you would never EVER want to do, period (hard).

There are links in the library about submitting, and how others have felt when they were where you are now. Go find them and read. They might help you with understanding why you feel like you do at different times. There are also links there about making up your limit lists, too.

But above everything, don't go too fast. Take your time. You're young. There's no hurry. This is a fun time for you. Experimenting, exploring and discovering interesting things that make you shiver and shake.

After a while, you should probably start looking for a munch group in your area or something like it, to start meeting others that are into the same things as you are. If your boyfriend is one of those, you can experiment with him. But, don't do anything you don't want to do, and make sure he follows the rules. Yes, there are rules. You should communicate with each other, express your desires and also express what you DON'T like. But, above all, have fun.

Also, that's a good field to get into. There's always a lot of tormented youth out there. You should find a lot of satisfaction in helping others. But, there is also some pain involved, too. I think you know what I mean. Some people are just beyond your help, if they don't want to help themselves.

 

[Tomahawk26]

Spam flagged. . .

 

[Daxaeha]

I really appreciate the welcome wagon!

The advice to tread lightly was not taken lightly but I'm also not entirely naive. I am honestly thankful for the concern. I plan on asking a few public questions, I guess I'm still trying to find the right way to word them and also turn them into thread material. I'm also brand new to forum using so there's a lot to take in here. On top of all that I've started to write a story.
My first crack at erotica.
I'm on a 'new things' kick and I love it!

 

[Kim_Burly]

I hate to be Debby Downer, but if you find a person that can be a soul mate and match your kinky needs you will be in a very, very select group. I'll don my flame proof suit before I continue with my next thought. I think a large percentage of vanilla women want a masculine, dominant man as their mate, but society is pushing boys and men to be more feminine and subservient. We have turned a large percentage of American men in Euro-weenies. So, you have a large group of women pursuing a shrinking group of what I'll label as "real men". Real men are out there, but few of them are sadists/Doms.

Good luck on your search, you have youth in your favor. Just keep realistic expectations.

 

[BiBunny]

I hate to be Debby Downer, but if you find a person that can be a soul mate and match your kinky needs you will be in a very, very select group. I'll don my flame proof suit before I continue with my next thought. I think a large percentage of vanilla women want a masculine, dominant man as their mate, but society is pushing boys and men to be more feminine and subservient. We have turned a large percentage of American men in Euro-weenies. So, you have a large group of women pursuing a shrinking group of what I'll label as "real men". Real men are out there, but few of them are sadists/Doms.

Good luck on your search, you have youth in your favor. Just keep realistic expectations.

Society is not pushing men and boys to be more feminine and subservient. We've built this idiotic cult of the penis, where anybody who happens to have one is put up on a pedestal, whether they deserve it or not. It's led to many men becoming lazy, entitled, narcissistic, and useless.

That's not to say it doesn't happen to women as well. But the point is, a lot of men expect other people to "make them feel like men" because they've been trained to be so lazy and entitled that they don't know how to do things to make themselves feel like men. They look for validation from without, rather than from within, which is where the narcissistic part comes in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I hate to be Debby Downer, but if you find a person that can be a soul mate and match your kinky needs you will be in a very, very select group. I'll don my flame proof suit before I continue with my next thought. I think a large percentage of vanilla women want a masculine, dominant man as their mate, but society is pushing boys and men to be more feminine and subservient. We have turned a large percentage of American men in Euro-weenies. So, you have a large group of women pursuing a shrinking group of what I'll label as "real men". Real men are out there, but few of them are sadists/Doms.

Good thing you have those flameproof panties on, because you lit up a pile of flaming bullshit.

More men are sadists than are actually dominant, that's probably true. More of everyone is more comfortable with sharing physical activity than with assuming some bigass lifelong role. Very few of anyone really wants the buck to stop with them all the time.

it's quite evident that a large proportion of vanilla women want to be done unto, yes-- but when their mate starts getting controlling, we have a problem Houston. And for a lot of those women when they discover they can take charge of their sexuality even when in bed with a dude-- that's a life changer.

My experienced opinion.

 

[Netzach]

I hate to be Debby Downer, but if you find a person that can be a soul mate and match your kinky needs you will be in a very, very select group. I'll don my flame proof suit before I continue with my next thought. I think a large percentage of vanilla women want a masculine, dominant man as their mate, but society is pushing boys and men to be more feminine and subservient. We have turned a large percentage of American men in Euro-weenies. So, you have a large group of women pursuing a shrinking group of what I'll label as "real men". Real men are out there, but few of them are sadists/Doms.

Good luck on your search, you have youth in your favor. Just keep realistic expectations.

Yep, it sucks that I've found it easy to be friends with men my age and younger, that men my age and younger are 432348892 times more likely to deal with me as a peer and not a walking vagina. Even socially moronic gamer boys are actually usually pretty cool if you stick with them on this. Of course women are conditioned to want Daddy/Alpha/Wallet to the point of completely ignoring men younger than their age group (and in my case I'm talking about guys 23-35, women my age treat them like some annoying little brother) More for me I guess.

Soooo sorry het women are having trouble finding John Wayne. Heart bleeds.

I like seeing those body scrubs on my bathroom shelf, I'll say that much.

 

[Daxaeha]

I hate to be Debby Downer, but if you find a person that can be a soul mate and match your kinky needs you will be in a very, very select group. I'll don my flame proof suit before I continue with my next thought. I think a large percentage of vanilla women want a masculine, dominant man as their mate, but society is pushing boys and men to be more feminine and subservient. We have turned a large percentage of American men in Euro-weenies. So, you have a large group of women pursuing a shrinking group of what I'll label as "real men". Real men are out there, but few of them are sadists/Doms.

Good luck on your search, you have youth in your favor. Just keep realistic expectations.

I'm sure that every human is looking for their soul mate in some fashion but that's not what I was getting at.

What I was saying is that the handful of boys/men that I've been with, since I started to realize I had submissive curiosities/tendencies, have been so well conditioned to believe that "woman have the power because they have the vagina" that me exploring my feelings has been pretty much impossible.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ah yeah. You have discovered a special truth, Dax. Many men (and women too) who call themelves "doms" (or "dommes") are, in reality "service tops," as I say very often -- the correlary being that many people who think they are "subs" are actually bottoms-- either dominant or not so much, but not really inclined to put their partner's pleasure so extremely ahead of their own, as a submissive would.

I get the feeling that you know the difference. And you are so very right about how rare such people are. Many subs have ended up training their Dominants in the art of dominance-- encouraging a perceived tendency, reassuring them that it's okay to take the reins.

Depending on where you are located, you might be able to find workshops on D/s dynamics, often presented by the gay male leather community. Check on Fetlife.com.

 

[Netzach]

I'm sure that every human is looking for their soul mate in some fashion but that's not what I was getting at.

What I was saying is that the handful of boys/men that I've been with, since I started to realize I had submissive curiosities/tendencies, have been so well conditioned to believe that "woman have the power because they have the vagina" that me exploring my feelings has been pretty much impossible.

Can you just talk to them?

Like "look this is what you're conditioned to think or what works for a lot of people but I don't think it works for me, and this is what I'd like to try. I know it might freak you out a bit, but that's ok, we can talk about it and work through it. If there's stuff that you think might freak me out, we can talk about that too, I think it would be great to try stuff together."

I realize that I was dealing with more mature dudes than on average in my age bracket, but this wasn't so crazy.

Be prepared for people to be turned off by your "thing" though and there's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing un-natural about people being turned off by the expectation of control and consistency.

 

[Daxaeha]

Can you just talk to them?

Like "look this is what you're conditioned to think or what works for a lot of people but I don't think it works for me, and this is what I'd like to try. I know it might freak you out a bit, but that's ok, we can talk about it and work through it. If there's stuff that you think might freak me out, we can talk about that too, I think it would be great to try stuff together."

I realize that I was dealing with more mature dudes than on average in my age bracket, but this wasn't so crazy.

Be prepared for people to be turned off by your "thing" though and there's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing un-natural about people being turned off by the expectation of control and consistency.

I've tried it, the talking I mean. I just really don't think he has it in him.
He has enough issues with "normal" sex. I tried to get him to tease me into orgasm and he lost interest in the "game" after about 4 minutes. :/

I've suggested that we maybe read some BDSM stories together just to see if he can get a feel for it that way. Whenever I repeat my suggestion he pretends not to hear it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sounds like you two are not sexually compatible. And you aren't going to 'fix' him very easily. Whatever it is, something is blocking his empathic resonances, so to speak.

So the question is, how important to you is sexual compatibility?

If it's important you need to be figuring it in when you form relationships.

And I just realised that your boyfriend is 22 years old-- that is mighty young to be understanding complex types of relationship shit. If vanilla sex is math, kink is algebra-- and D/s, the real thing, is calculus. Most people I know might be kinky young adults, but really get serious and explorative sometime approaching middle age.

 

[Daxaeha]

Sounds like you two are not sexually compatible. And you aren't going to 'fix' him.

So the question is, how important to you is sexual compatibility? If it's important you need to be figuring it in when you form relationships.

And I just realised that your boyfriend is 22 years old-- that is mighty young to be understanding complex types of relationship shit. If vanilla sex is math, kink is algebra-- and D/s, the real thing, is calculus. Most people I know might be kinky young adults, but really get serious and explorative sometime approaching middle age.

This is not the first time I've had issues with sexual compatibility. It's a cycle I really need to learn to break. I don't mess around with things at first because the puppy love tends to make anything and everything feel amazing. It's when that dies off and I'm already in love that I realize I'm in a catch 22. Either leave heart broken in yet another search for someone who can provide, or stay and deal with being unsatisfied.

I honestly love him and WANT him to be what I NEED. I want to "fix" him (I don't like wording it that way.) but he's really resistant to the whole subject.

This is the same guy that get's treated like the biggest piece of shit at every job he has and just deals with it. I'm still waiting for this guy to go postal and blow up a puppy mill....actually, now that I think about it, he might be a sub and just not know it. That would explain a few things.

 

[knot_sweet]

This is not the first time I've had issues with sexual compatibility. It's a cycle I really need to learn to break. I don't mess around with things at first because the puppy love tends to make anything and everything feel amazing. It's when that dies off and I'm already in love that I realize I'm in a catch 22. Either leave heart broken in yet another search for someone who can provide, or stay and deal with being unsatisfied.

ok, so you need to start relationships the way you want to continue the relationship.

I honestly love him and WANT him to be what I NEED. I want to "fix" him (I don't like wording it that way.) but he's really resistant to the whole subject.

What makes you think he wans to be fixed? He's happy the way he is and trying to fix something that isn't broken, is counter productive and probably not going to end in anything more than resentmenton both parties' behalf.

This is the same guy that get's treated like the biggest piece of shit at every job he has and just deals with it. I'm still waiting for this guy to go postal and blow up a puppy mill....actually, now that I think about it, he might be a sub and just not know it. That would explain a few things.

Um, no, he probably isn't. You're trying to see something you want instead of what's there.

If you read this forum section, you'll find plenty of people in permanent relationships with loving partners who cannot satisfy their need for BDSM. Some of them are lucky enough that their partner is willing to at least try. Still others come to an extra marital arrangement.

But at the end of the day, you need to decide what's more important; a half fulfilled relationship with a loving but essentially incomptible partner, or trying to find a compatible one. Please note that option two is going to be filled with plenty of heartache and probably a few failures. But when it works, the payoff is more than worth it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Somewhere I wrote a little essay about teaching a man to take control-- because he's under orders to take control.
Like training a horse in Dressage, yanno, and then you can let the reins loose and the horse carries you so well you become a passenger, dropping your dominance for the duration.

BDSM paradoxically means that those of us on either side of the equation -- we all of us have to be assertive and open about what we want. Many Vanilla men can be tops, they just need permission and also assurance that they are doing it right.

You say your guy already has issues with sex? In what way?

Also-- sounds like some positive reinforcement would help.

 

[Daxaeha]

You all are so awesome.


I don't want to "fix him" which is what I said. I was just quoting.

Also, I'm not even close to the "should I stay or go" question.

It hadn't really occurred to me that different people would have varying advice on how to make it work for us. I kinda assumed that all I'd hear is "Have you tried talking to him?"
Of course I've tried that!

That actually makes me want to check the library for a thread discussing the mixing of BDSM and relationships. A wide subject, I imagine, but I'm sure I'll learn a few things.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

*snip*
Like training a horse in Dressage, yanno, and then you can let the reins loose and the horse carries you so well you become a passenger, dropping your dominance for the duration.

Can I just say this is an absolutely splendid metaphor, and for so many things!! I do wonder how many people here actually got it >_>

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I have been watching this thread for a while and like many threads here and elsewhere that revolve around some issue that a lot of people find important - people's individual experiences of the matter seem vastly different even though they virtually all tend to agree the main point itself is 'important...'

I can't presume to know whether any one view is more accurate than any other - simply because I have met a lot of people in my life who for all the world sounded as if they really meant what they were saying and were REALLY REALLY assertive all the time... ...and then one day you found out that they were hiding something they were afraid to reveal. And their whole 'front' was false.

'BDSM' is not actually a phrase that I personally use seriously among anyone I actually have a physical relationship with - to me it attempts to cover far too wide a field of behaviours and lifestyles to be of much real use. Of course it is possible to gather what someone is intending to mean by a lot of the surrounding things they say.

When you look at someone from the intimate relationship point of view, you have to make many judgment calls about them. And there is a point - perhaps several points - where if you cross that line into a dark dark area, there is really no going back.

How do you make that call about that self-revelatory road beyond which there is 'no turning back?'

It isn't easy. If it were easy, and everyone had good judgement all the time, and everyone was trustworthy and confidential - there would virtually never be divorces or breakups.

That kink point-of-no-return as far as self-revelation goes is pretty much a lot like the Navy Seal who is actually an opinionated and big-headed A-hole who thinks he can load his own gun - and does it; and shoot and kill another human being - and does it; and comes back to the leering jealousy and superficial jeering of his buddies - and collects his medal... And finds out only too late that he has post-traumatic stress and wants to turn the gun on himself eventually because his inner human conscience catches up with him when he realizes he is just mortal, a human, will die himself, is ugly and stupid and really can't live on no sleep and duramine, is no hero without a gun in his hand, and far from being a narcissist, hates what he now sees himself to be.

Of course, not all A-holes get to that point of self-realisation.

But some do and their bodies and their minds betray what they wanted to project of themselves both to the world and to themselves.

...You reveal too much of yourself to a human being without taking care over whether they are that equivalent 'Navy Seal' and you will find out what disasters await the foolish in life. Ordinary people do not like to be confronted with too much truth.

Boys can be pretty to young girls. Some men are exciting and good looking. Some men with money represent safety.

Me, I watch movies like Polanski's Bitter Moon and re-run the New Year dance scene and listen to Peter Coyote's lines: 'stick on a funny hat and and laugh it'll make you feel better.' Or something like that. And: 'Nigel, your wife Fiona was a revelation!'

But that actual dance scene itself, that point where 'Fiona' decides to give, and that she could give, what Polanski's rl wife was despairing of getting from the men around the place, was that classic moment - that point of no return.

And in reality, well, frankly, if you suddenly, for instance, turned around to someone, and suggested that they take you down that dark underpass at night like in Irreversible, and manhandle you to the ground, and fuck you in the ass for nine minutes until you're hysterical blubbering all the while screaming in your ear at you that you are a privileged middle class bitch who is nothing but a slut whore who lets her meal-ticket take her up the ass in a nice bedroom... Better still, that you REALLY WANT TO BE TAKEN DOWN THERE...

Well see, that all is reaching a point of no turning back.

Think about things that way, and you will soon enough understand whether your partner either has the understanding, the consideration, the sensitivity - in short, the whit - to handle it. And not many do. I am inclined to go along with much of what 'Debby Downer' says!

Best.

'DMMW.'