Rape Fantasy

[HRE]

The girl I'm with at the moment confessed a few days ago that she wanted me to tie her up at some point and have my way with her. More recentley, she confessed to a rape fantasy which, upon further questioning, revealed itself to be closely related with the 'tied up' desire. In other words, she wants to submit control, to be tied up, to be consensually 'raped'.

The problem here is that she doesn't read/watch porn. Her exposure to the sexual world is very shallow. I don't know, then, what she means by what she wants. How can I discover her real desires -- be they pain, spanking/whipping, orgasm denial, or any number of more straight-forward sexual delights -- without removing the submissive fantasy?

In other words, how can I go about discovering her meaning, intents, and limits without her explicitly saying "Do this and this and that" -- that is, topping from the bottom.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

In other words, how can I go about discovering her meaning, intents, and limits without her explicitly saying "Do this and this and that" -- that is, topping from the bottom.

I am only going to comment on the last part of your post HRE. If she is comfortable speaking in more detail about her desires and suggesting aspects that might be scened then you are on the clearest path to the answer you ask earlier in your post.

I have never believed that good communicating skills are topping. Manipulation by deception , omission and faulty emotional standards applied is. To be 'topped' one must permit it or be so estranged from the truth that it is not evident.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I agree with Rebecca, your girl appears to have a clear idea about what she wants. You can always instruct her to tell you. Download and fill out checklists or simply have her write down all her fantasies. Whether you grant her wishes, in what manner and when all remain up to you.

Good luck with this.

 

[JMohegan]

The problem here is that she doesn't read/watch porn. Her exposure to the sexual world is very shallow. I don't know, then, what she means by what she wants. How can I discover her real desires -- be they pain, spanking/whipping, orgasm denial, or any number of more straight-forward sexual delights -- without removing the submissive fantasy?

I'm not sure what porn has to do with anything, or why the fact that she doesn't read/watch it is a negative.

As for her "real desires", the critical point here is her lack of actual experience. She may have some very exciting fantasies, but fantasy and physical experience are two entirely different things.

Step 1 - Have as many conversations as possible about her fantasies.

Step 2 - Find out, as specifically as possible, what she has actually done.

Step 3 - Proceed more quickly with activities she has done & knows she enjoys, but very, very slowly as you bring her fantasies to life. Introduce new experiences at a measured pace so you can gauge her reactions as you go along. Pay close attention to her body language during play, and talk about what you do afterwards.

A final note. Rape, by definition, is nonconsensual. I find it more helpful to talk to a partner about the fantasy of being taken by force (TBF play). That leads to questions like - How much "force" do you think you want, or could handle? What kind of force? Etc.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My question would be are you yourself drawn to this type role play or are you doing it just to please her? It can make a lot of difference to the outcome, your understanding and connection, and your state of mind. F is one who has a strong aversion to any form of rape play and has always made it clear upfront to any subs he communicated with that he would not be indulging their fantasies if that was where they were coming from. You need to know your own feelings on the whole topic and understand them before trying to second guess hers. And as others have said, communication is vital.

Catalina

 

[myinnerslut]

More recentley, she confessed to a rape fantasy which, upon further questioning, revealed itself to be closely related with the 'tied up' desire. In other words, she wants to submit control, to be tied up, to be consensually 'raped'.

i once read that a "rape fantasy" is one of the most common female fantasies, even among vanilla women. the term "rape" is just a bad way of describing it. often when someone says they want to experiance a rape fantasy, it means they want to be physically overpowered and then taken. for example, having her fight back, but pin her to the bed, and tie her down despite her struggles. some suggestions are:
1- make sure she has a safeword. in a fantasy in which struggle is involved, the words "stop" and "dont" may get thrown about, but that doesnt mean she actually wants you to stop. beforehand discuss this and agree that you will only stop if she calls out her safeword, and if she does you will stop everything immediatly.
2- have her wear old clothes that she wouldnt mind getting torn or cut up. tying her down while she is "struggling" with you , and then cutting or tearing her clothes off also lends itself to her "rape" fantasy. it's just another way of exhibiting control in a fantasy in which she wants to be "Taken advantage of".
3- have her write down the perfect rape fantasy, what hapens in it step by step. you can have her do this in a journal, a letter, or in an erotic story. by having her write it instead of tell you in person, she may feel more comfortable and open talking about her desires. this way you have a guide to what she means by "rape" fantasy and what she is looking for. you dont have to follow what she says step by step, but youll know what she is expecting to get out of the scene.

In other words, how can I go about discovering her meaning, intents, and limits without her explicitly saying "Do this and this and that".

have her fill out a BDSM checklist to find out in general what she likes and doesnt like. you mayhave to go through it together before she fills it out to explain what certain things are. there are links to BDSM checklists in the library.


**please forgive any spelling errors**

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

A final note. Rape, by definition, is nonconsensual. I find it more helpful to talk to a partner about the fantasy of being taken by force (TBF play). That leads to questions like - How much "force" do you think you want, or could handle? What kind of force? Etc.

Of all the groovy acronym's that have been adopted TBF play is one I would really like to see established in exchange for the term 'rape' within BDSM terminology.

I sincerely doubt my first hand experience of rape would be the stuff of anyone's fantasy's it was so grey and inane compared to what is achievable in a BDSM 'sense' between trustworthy, confident , emotionally sound and adventurous partnerships.

I read the posts after mine in this Thread before retiring last night and knew there was more I wanted to add here. When it comes down to bare bones I think its irresponsible to homogenise the word 'rape' to the point its an acceptable alternative to alternate terms such as John suggested in TBF play.

Why glorify the crime by mainstreaming it in our language . Clearly when the reality's , no matter how your personal fantasy may present will remain in an entirely different genre.

 

[JMohegan]

Of all the groovy acronyms that have been adopted TBF play is one I would really like to see established in exchange for the term 'rape' within BDSM terminology.

I sincerely doubt my first hand experience of rape would be the stuff of anyone's fantasy's it was so grey and inane compared to what is achievable in a BDSM 'sense' between trustworthy, confident , emotionally sound and adventurous partnerships.

I read the posts after mine in this Thread before retiring last night and knew there was more I wanted to add here. When it comes down to bare bones I think its irresponsible to homogenise the word 'rape' to the point its an acceptable alternative to alternate terms such as John suggested in TBF play.

Why glorify the crime by mainstreaming it in our language . Clearly when the reality's , no matter how your personal fantasy may present will remain in an entirely different genre.

Rebecca,

I appreciate your positive comments about the acronym that I use in discussing TBF play.

I also understand and have tremendous sympathy for the reasoning behind your plea to the BDSM community to adopt a different word than rape in discussing what happens in consenting partnerships.

To avoid any possible misunderstanding on the part of others who read this thread, I would like to emphasize that I do not presume to tell anyone else what words to use or not use.

However, I do agree that there are compelling reasons to avoid use of the word rape in referring to consensual BDSM encounters, and note that these reasons are only tangentially related to the obvious fact that the word rape, in this context, is semantically incorrect.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

To avoid any possible misunderstanding on the part of others who read this thread, I would like to emphasize that I do not presume to tell anyone else what words to use or not use.

Understood and thank you for your other comments John.
------------------------------------------------------



I am not a great fan of PC for its own sake as its often used to stifle the individual. I am not projecting my own personal experience to the extent of giving it any more power than the personal trivia history I have assigned it to.

Simply put TBF play seemed a reasonable alternative to me . I'll be honest I have not heard the term before.

IF I had wanted to go to town on the topic and naively sweep it up into one ball game I would have in my first post. (generous with the euphemisms today.....heh)

To the Original Poster my apologies for the brief sideline. I am sure more advise on your questions will be forthcoming.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I can't think of anything less sexy than making someone fill out a fuckin checklist. Do people actually do this?

Proceed slowly and if you have instinct, mojo, and the ability to learn what people are thinking without making them spell it out; then you'll make a fine rape lover regardless of your-or her-experience level. If you lack those qualities then all the checklists in the world won't help you and you'd be be better off avoiding the love play of sensual RAPE.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I don't subscribe to the rape fantasy. I subscribe to the Fabio-romance-novel-bookcover fantasy. (And I can proudly say I've never read one.)

http://www.rhapsodybookclub.com/doc/rbc/TemplateData/images/SetPanel/club_url/cluburl_title_illust.gif

And I agree with this guy up here. Nothing is more boring and less sexy than check lists... except maybe written contracts. Yikes.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I have participated in both extensive contracts and checklists in some D/s relationships. I agree they can be time consuming to the point of boredom in the case of checklists and emotionally frustrating in the terms of D/s contracts.

Buying a home also involved extensive contracts and checklists . Knowing the builder better of the current home I live in I am thankful for all the above as frankly his mojo after he received the final payment from me changed and I can attest first hand sucked manifestly.

 

[FurryFury]

*skips and sings*

Lalalala . . .

Ooh!

Rape fantasy!

*stops to listen and day dream*



Fury

 

[myinnerslut]

I can't think of anything less sexy than making someone fill out a fuckin checklist. Do people actually do this?

when i was getting more deeply involved in D/s it was recommended to me that i should fill out a checklist. i did, and it helped a lot. my Sir now knows my opinions on a great many topics, and has used that knowledge to his advantage. even though it can be boring to fill out, i would still recomend doing one, especially if you are trying to discover sombodies limits.

 

[FluteMaster]

when i was getting more deeply involved in D/s it was recommended to me that i should fill out a checklist. i did, and it helped a lot. my Sir now knows my opinions on a great many topics, and has used that knowledge to his advantage. even though it can be boring to fill out, i would still recomend doing one, especially if you are trying to discover sombodies limits.

As she was new to it, my sub partner went looking and found a site with checklists etc. She then insisted that she fill them out, and requested my comments on them. Initially I just thought it was a great idea because it improved communication (and I hate hints, evasions and the requirement to mind read in order to get "it" right).

Anyway, the upshot was -

1) greater trust,

2) discovering kinks in her that I hadn't thought of (but I like),

3) a way in which my sub can open herself to me in a disciplined and comprehensive way.

4) In addition, it meant that she could be introduced in a theoretical way to various "kinks" without feeling that by saying "no", she was disappointing me. In other words, we talked about it because it was on the list, not because she thought I might like it and therefore feel inner pressure to comply. (NB- I also understand the difference between soft and hard limits)

5) She learned additional ways in which she might suprise and please me.

Now, I know that it's horses for courses out there, and that there are probably plenty of subs who think I'm a wuss, but I like to know some of the rules of a country I am visting before I upset the natives.

And anyway, you don't have to do them all at once.

Re the TBF/rape fantasies - talk about it. It's not porn, its personal fantasy. What she has may be pretty specific, even down to the language. You can't guess that (but you can build on it once you know).

kk - sermon over - lol.

 

[FurryFury]

Our list was looooong but very surprising and helpful results came from it. That resulted in "play" that would have otherwise never occurred. Except for his bitching I looked at it as an exciting way of discovering long hidden interests we each had.

Fury

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Of all the groovy acronym's that have been adopted TBF play is one I would really like to see established in exchange for the term 'rape' within BDSM terminology.

Why glorify the crime by mainstreaming it in our language . Clearly when the reality's , no matter how your personal fantasy may present will remain in an entirely different genre.

I do agree with this completely Rebecca. I don't think this stretches people's PC muscles too far. Although the term 'rape-play' is often used it is open to gross misconception and is not an accurate description of the dynamic that actually occurs between consenting D/s couples.

If you do go ahead with this HRE, you should also agree a safe signal. Safewords are all well and good but are not always foolproof in this kind of play. If her mouth is covered, ensure she can signal. If you tie her, ensure she can speak. Don't take her from behind when you first try this, make sure you can read her face. Finding out how much force she thinks she can handle is also an important suggestion.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

What most of us refer to a "mock-rape" scenes, or "rape fantasies" might better be described as "ravishment" fantasies.

But there are people who do, in fact, have fantasies about being raped. It's out there, it may be extreme, and it isn't "abnormal" though it might be rare.

Not everyone can play that way. Consentual non-consentuality can be a difficult line to walk.

 

[LunarKitten]

And it's such a big fantasy for so many people out there it actually made it into an episode of House last season (and, boy, was that an intense scene!!! ). But there are a lot of different levels people actually want it at, as has been said by lots of people. And I agree with most here, talk it out (or have her write it out) in detail and maintain a safeword (and be prepared for it to maybe be too much for her and she forget to use it, so have a back up prepared, just in case). Just because you have her spell out what she wants almost word for word does not mean you have to do it in the exact order and use every thing she wants - thus avoiding the appearance of topping from the bottom for you. (I once played with a Dom who would give me the toy bag, let me pick my favorites to be used, then he decided which of them he would use and in what order - thus, he knew I would enjoy myself and so would he, since he didn't play with anything he didn't like *man I loved that snake whip!*)

 

[Paingurl]

Hi, I signed up to share my thoughts on this thread. I also have a border line rape fantasy. First of all, I am pretty young and have only had a few sexual parteners so my experance is very limited.

it means they want to be physically overpowered and then taken. for example, having her fight back, but pin her to the bed, and tie her down despite her struggles.

You must have read my mind. This is how I feel exactly, just not tied up. I love to be, what I think of is " Man Handled ". I really don't understand why being overpowered and held in submission and taken is such a turn on to me. I do like to struggle though.

Some of the things I like.
1. My hands pinned above my head, while on my back
2. My hands pinned togeather, behind my back while on my knees
3. Hand around my throat, pulling me back, while on my knees
4. Having my panties ripped off
5. I like holding my legs togeather, making him spread them while he has my hands pinned. Hey he has to work a lil to
6. Last but not least. I like it a little rough. I like it to hurt a little.

Ok I'll stop jabbering
by now

 

[Tuomas]

Actually, "rape" is not non-consent considering the word's etymological roots. In fact, I would suspect that the BDSM version is much more coherent with the original meaning of the word "rape", since it is derived from the latin rapio, which means, "to seize, snatch, tear away". Indeed, "rapture" from the same root still signifies "carried away". As we all know, the BDSM is all about seizing the sub and sweeping him or her away.

A "rape fantasy" is described as "taken"; "physically overpowered", as in being carried away by another power; many visualize their clothes being "torn away"; among other things.

What is commonly known as "rape" is actually "violation", from the latin violatio: to use force, or violence; treat with dishonor; to cause injury, irreverence. Thusly, it is not the BDSM community that should change it's use of the word, but the rest of society.

Hi, I signed up to share my thoughts on this thread. I also have a border line rape fantasy. First of all, I am pretty young and have only had a few sexual parteners so my experance is very limited.



You must have read my mind. This is how I feel exactly, just not tied up. I love to be, what I think of is " Man Handled ". I really don't understand why being overpowered and held in submission and taken is such a turn on to me. I do like to struggle though.

Some of the things I like.
1. My hands pinned above my head, while on my back
2. My hands pinned togeather, behind my back while on my knees
3. Hand around my throat, pulling me back, while on my knees
4. Having my panties ripped off
5. I like holding my legs togeather, making him spread them while he has my hands pinned. Hey he has to work a lil to
6. Last but not least. I like it a little rough. I like it to hurt a little.

Ok I'll stop jabbering
by now

I should get to know you better...