Rabbit Eggs & Resurrection

[shereads]

Discuss. I was raised Christian, and I'm mystified.

Also: the May Pole dance. My mom still has the adorable little dress she wore to "Dance the May Pole" when she was seven. What's up with that? Any connection with the rabbit eggs and eternal life?

 

[Guest]

I voted on the last item just cos it was funny, however mean. I don't get the gist of this thread or poll but I'll put in a couple centavos.

This is also the Passover time. Passover was called Pash in the early writings of the Christian church (before it became the RCC). Easter is an old Anglo-Saxon word for it, derived from the Old English word, eastron, derived from eostre for a fertility goddess who was celebrated at the vernal equinox. I think most women are familiar with the word oestrus.

So it was all about spring and fertility for the Pagans, and the symbols of rabbits and eggs were adopted. I think the Christians kept the bunnies cos they were cute and obviously did not believe in birth control; the egg was turned into a symbol for birth/resurrection. (Perhaps Gauche could contribute something on the chicken/egg issue here.) I don't know the meaning, but an egg is also part of the Seder ceremony at the Passover meal.

BTW, rabbits were also a fertility symbol in ancient Babylon, and used ceremonially in Africa to stop rain.

Perdita

p.s. there is also a history of the derivation of Easter from Ishtar (NOT the loser movie) and Astarte, but I don't feel like looking it up.

p.s.s. re. the May pole, which was also about spring, fertility and sex, the RCC adapted May as the month of Mary. In Catholic school we used to have a non-red May Day and the prettiest (vs. the most pious) girl in eighth grade was chosen to crown the statue of the virgin with a floral wreath. It was really like the equivalent of a religious beauty pageant and the boys were not thinking of the mother of god as the virgin's lady-in-waiting processed up the steps to the very non-Jewish looking lady in blue.

 

[gauchecritic]

This has no basis in research

Like so many things Christian, as Perdita observes, at the beginning of the rise of the Son of God and His church, the known world was mainly owned by Rome, in it's wisdom the state, as well as conscripting locals to oversee their own countries, had the very sensible idea of allowing foreigners to worship whom they wished so long as they didn't foment any unrest and paid their Danegelt or delivered unto Rome what was Roman (or something like that)

As the Empire crumbled their was a political need for a new kind of government. So what was the one thing that all the conquered nations had in common? Religion.

So in order to sustain as much of the Empire as they could, Rome became a church instead of a military state and set about re-conquering all the countries that it used to own.

Now all these separate countries, and tribes within those countries had, for the most part, natural idols. The sun, moon, seasons, weather etc. These were the things that externally affected their everyday lives. They had traditions of appeasements and signs to keep away evil. Some of these (though by no means all) were holly wreathes, may poles, mistletoe, almost anything which represented prodigous reproduction (eggs, rabbits) and so on.

So in a similar way to the military wisdom of keeping local things local the church adjusted and adopted the strongest of local traditions and superstitions into their story of Christ.

The longest and most dearly held pagan worship was at the darkest time in the year, the longest nights and coldest too when they would cheer themselves up and co-incidentally pray to their gods to bring them spring which didn't look like it was going to come back after so long in the dark.

So this was a particularly good time to celebrate the birth of the Saviour of all mankind and not just your family or farm or local community. So the church moved Jesus' birthday from August (a roman month) to December (tenth month).

The next big thing was planting season. Brighter and longer days, more work able to be carried out in the fields and lots and lots of praying and appeasing and appealing to various gods for favourable outcomes. Dancing and laughter, girls ready for wedlock, the December rites worked lets all be happy and have some more. Here you are gods, we know how you work, look eggs, chickens lay loads of these so that must be how spring works, rabbits, fucking shitloads of them every year, so that must be how spring works. We realise how great you are and we're letting you know that we know.

So here's a good place to have the crucifixion. Actually dying to pay for all our sins.

But they don't do this on a fixed day, just the first rest day after the planting or first rest day after preparation for planting (not sure about that, no research as I said) In that case we'll make Easter, as they call it, so many days after septuagisima (what's that? I've no idea I just made it up.)

Right, so they rigged the two main feasts by altering the calender just a little but now they have two more minor feasts.
May day, whitsuntide, well dressing, Morris dancing to insure the planting gives yield. We'll call that pentecost then. (Did you just make that up? No it's there in the bible. But whitsun is a moveable feast like Easter. Well we'll have it, let me see pente, five, fifty days after Easter.)

Then harvest time, they have a really big blow out at harvest time giving thanks and the rewards from the field and all that. Well we'll call that exactly the same thing, just move it into the church. Harvest festival.

I'm pretty sure someone will want to correct every single thing about this, but that's how I see it. Pagan rites adopted into the church calendar.

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Easter is a fusion of Christian beliefs and Pagan rituals/celebrations.

The name Easter comes from the Goddess Eostre (aka Eastre). She was Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre."

However, Easter has been celebrated by Christains for centuries. Up until 4th century ad Easter and Pentecost were the only two holy days that Christians observed.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is: Easter is neither exclusively a Christain Holy Day or a Pagan celebration of Spring; it is both, depending on ones faith, I suppose.

I celebrate both. I am not an especially religious person, but the mere symbolism of Christ and his sacrifice is very humbling. That's why I probably see Easter Sunday as the most religious day of the year. It is a day of re-birth, of new hope and of celebration. That's where the eggs come into it. They symbolize new life, both for Christians and Pagans alike.

Whatever ones beliefs and reasons for celebrating, Spring is a wonderful time of year, and should be welcomed and even worshipped.

Lou

Edited to add a P.S. Gauche posted his post as I was writing mine, and his last sentence is something I was also trying to get at.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Gauche, Pretty much has it on the mark there!

There are many other decoration techniques and numerous traditions of giving them as a token of friendship, love or good wishes.
When boiling hard-cooked eggs for easter a nice colour can be achieved by boiling the eggs with onion skin.

The dance thing in may also reflcts the fertility of the season and the stride of bringing young men and women together. Literally to be fertile, but as in most cases in the modern world it is intended to just be a good time.

http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/e/e6/Eggs.jpg

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Contrary to what most people think, Easter orginated in the Mysterious East, home of acrobats, magicians and clowns, hence the name. Since magicians use rabbits and clowns give out candy, the two were combined to give rise to things like chocolate rabbits and furry candy bars. The latter proved unpopular however and largely died out during the Reformation, though there are some places where “Mink” Marzipan, Angorra Halvah, and Fuzzy Toffee are still enjoyed. Or at least eaten.

Searching for “Easter eggs” comes from the Chinese practice of hiding eggs for a thousand years, and reminds us of the Biblical injunction, “As the lost egg stinketh, so stinketh the wicked of their iniquity.” Actually, looking for Eater eggs makes perfect sense. It’s understanding what drives people to hide them in the first place that confuses scholars.

---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre. That was long before clowns, magicians and such like from the "mysteroius East" started the practice you state, Dr. M.

Admittedly, the origins of the word are contentious, but Easter, both as a festival and a word, was around long before clowns began giving out candy, and magicians started pulling rabbits from hats - in the East or anywhere else for that matter.

Lou

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Eggs are great all year. You just need to know where to hide them.

 

[NoJo]

The word "Easter" comes from Fred Astaire (orig. Alfred Aestaire), a hoofer from the nineteen thirties. When asked about a female dancer in the chorus line, he was reported to have said "Sit on her eggs". This is almost certainly a mishearing of "Quick on her legs", bacause otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.

The connection of Fred Astaire and "Rabbits" (U.S. slang for chorus girls) is obvious.


Etymologically,


Joe.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The word "Easter" comes from Fred Astaire (orig. Alfred Aestaire), a hoofer from the nineteen thirties.

Joe, I think you have your holidays mixed up. Fred Astaire is most closely associated with Xmas. It was him that the three wisemen were following.

---dr.M.

 

[gauchecritic]

Having done a little research since Mab's post I can conclusively rebutt your assertation there Lou.

In "the year of the manitee" (approximately 12002 bc) the chinese philosopher and sage Condim Dintchu wrote (translated and paraphrased) "eggs is eggs and rabbits don't lay them" the first known reference to Easter or Egster as it was known at that time.

During the Pong Dynasty (which covered Manchuria, Setzchuan and parts of Mongolia) the annual "Laying on of eggs" was performed as a spring ritual to ensure good harvests of rice (and later pasta when Marco Polo discovered the beneficial effects of diet which included these). This led to the 'thousand year hiding' to which Mab refers.

The acrobatic magical clown was a later addition to the festivities and performed much the same service as feste or fool in Shakespeare's plays. To make the emporer look foolish (as in making them walk naked through the streets of Ko Ventri) and striking them about the head with a mock maka-wari (represented by a goat's bladder on a stick).

Gauche

 

[NoJo]

Eggs are great all year. You just need to know where to hide them.

Handy hint: If you find you've run out of eggs, most good supermarkets stock them.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre. That was long before clowns, magicians and such like from the "mysteroius East" started the practice you state, Dr. M.

I know all about the Venerable Bede, whose real name was The Venereal Bead due to his case of genital warts. He's the patron saint of crafters and invented the rosary.

The eastern origins of Easter were recently investigated by a Polish expedition that set out to rediscover the long-lost East Pole. Nothing's been heard of them in some time, though.

---dr.M.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[Guest]

This is so exciting. I'm going to write up a very official paper and submit it to the mostest postest-modern theological journal of the moment. Will cite you all of course.

Happy Astaire to all,

Perdita (aka spring chicken)

 

[Guest]

Having done a little research since Mab's post I can conclusively rebutt your assertation there Lou.

...

Gauche

It wasn't my assertation, it was The Venerable Bead's. I was just going by what some dead guy once wrote in a book.

And, doesn't your latest post also rebutt a lot of posts by others, ealier in the thread?

I know, it doesn't really matter, I just didn't do my research (flippin' internet!), but I wasn't the only one saying much the same thing.

Well, as always, Lit is an education.

Back to pissing about and flirting...

Lou

 

[Guest]

Gauche: ASSertation
Loulou: reBUTT
Perdita: giggle

 

[NoJo]

I have to say, as a committed druid, that Easter is the time of the vernal equinox, when the ancient pre-Celts would gather round Stonehenge and sacrifice a virgin; this was done because virgins were tax-deductable and it was good for their P&L.

This leads neatly to my theory that Stonehenge was little more than a giant tax calculator.

In the thirteenth century, a local wag lamented the poor mental calculating ability of the people in those times:

SEE THAM FULLES GATHERINGE TO THE HENGE FOR TAXE TIMME. SACKE, SYDRE AND WINNE HATH THAM HEADS SO ADDLED THEY NOT MORRE TO CANNE THEM RECKONE WITHE.

 

[Guest]

Ok, so now it's down to Pooh bear?

Lou

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Is this christian clownish or sacrilege?

Oh yes, and a Hoppy Easter to all.


~A~

ps. sher and perdita, keep those rabbits separate or we'll be up to our asses in rabbits!!!!

 

[gauchecritic]

Balloon twisting is considered to be the lowest form of clownery and by far the vast majority of 'clowns' who use it are often runaways from circuses (A la John Major who became an accountant)

There are still laws extant in the wilder parts of Coloridayo and Oregano where citizens are required to shoot balloon twisters (after the fashion of the samaritan laws) whenever and wherever they be.

As the German saying goes "Schnapps ist Schnapps unt dins ist dins"

Gauche

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Balloon twisting is considered to be the lowest form of clownery and by far the vast majority of 'clowns' who use it are often runaways from circuses (A la John Major who became an accountant)

There are still laws extant in the wilder parts of Coloridayo and Oregano where citizens are required to shoot balloon twisters (after the fashion of the samaritan laws) whenever and wherever they be.

As the German saying goes "Schnapps ist Schnapps unt dins ist dins"

Gauche

Balloon Jesus loves you!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Christonacross, no one has mentioned Peeps. Last I recall the Lavendar chickees were almost outselling the standard yellow and pink. But where do they fit in the pagan/christian saga? As a young Catholic-gurl I was not allowed to eat Peeps, which naturally caused a guilty fetish. Peep lore anyone?

Perdita

Edited: to add this - Peeps do Shakespeare! Cheep, cheep!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Christonacross, no one has mentioned Peeps. Last I recall the Lavendar chickees were almost outselling the standard yellow and pink. But where do they fit in the pagan/christian saga? As a young Catholic-gurl I was not allowed to eat Peeps, which naturally caused a guilty fetish. Peep lore anyone?

Perdita

I like them when they get hard and crunchy, they make them where I come from.

 

[Somme]

So crucifying bunnies is just wrong?