R.I.P. Ray Liotta

[gunhilltrain]

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

 

[Kumquatqueen]

And Andy Fletcher. A sad day.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ray Liotta was a good guy who had the talent to play convincing assholes. He was great in Goodfellas for how well he played the role, but when it comes to mob movies(and next to Godfather 1&2 Goodfellas may be the top one) I don't see the appeal of a bunch of d-bags as characters. "Don't hit her....only I can hit women."

Actually the Sopranos blew this away, but it was a long running series, not a movie, and it also went out of its way to never let you forget these guys are animals and not heroes, it was just a look into their world.

 

[SimonDoom]

Something I liked about Liotta as an actor was that he wasn't afraid to make you dislike his character. His greatest role was Henry in Goodfellas, but I remember the first time I saw him was in Something Wild, the movie with Jeff Daniels and Melanie Griffith, and he did an excellent job making you uncomfortable as a moviegoer. You didn't know what he was going to do next. He kept you on the edge of your seat. That's good acting.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Ray Liotta was a good guy who had the talent to play convincing assholes. He was great in Goodfellas for how well he played the role, but when it comes to mob movies(and next to Godfather 1&2 Goodfellas may be the top one) I don't see the appeal of a bunch of d-bags as characters. "Don't hit her....only I can hit women."

Actually the Sopranos blew this away, but it was a long running series, not a movie, and it also went out of its way to never let you forget these guys are animals and not heroes, it was just a look into their world.

Henry Hill's real-life son wrote a book about him and - and well, the movie was based on Wiseguy which was mostly created from interviews with Hill and his wife Karen. The movie quotes some of it verbatim. The upshot is that Hill pulled some punches when describing himself and his experiences, and that comes through in Liotta's performance. Yes, Hill admitted to being a mobster, but in both the book and the movie, he comes across as being a better guy, or at least less extreme than his associates - like the characters played by Joe Pesci and Robert De Niro.

If his son is to be believed, Hill was a darker person (and certainly not a reliable parent) than he presented himself to Nicholas Pileggi.

As a side note, neither Henry nor Karen were anywhere near as good-looking as Liotta and Lorraine Bracco, but that's Hollywood for you.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Ray Liotta was a good guy who had the talent to play convincing assholes. He was great in Goodfellas for how well he played the role, but when it comes to mob movies(and next to Godfather 1&2 Goodfellas may be the top one) I don't see the appeal of a bunch of d-bags as characters. "Don't hit her....only I can hit women."

Actually the Sopranos blew this away, but it was a long running series, not a movie, and it also went out of its way to never let you forget these guys are animals and not heroes, it was just a look into their world.

The son's book is On The Run: A Mafia childhood, and it was co-written with Hill's daughter Gina.

The problem with The Sopranos was that it ran for too many seasons, one of the downsides of success. They had to keep coming up with yet more guys for Tony to whack and new girlfriends for him to fool around with. I did enjoy that scene where Carmela leaves his golf clubs in the driveway, and he drives over them in his SUV.

 

[lovecraft68]

The son's book is On The Run: A Mafia childhood, and it was co-written with Hill's daughter Gina.

The problem with The Sopranos was that it ran for too many seasons, one of the downsides of success. They had to keep coming up with yet more guys for Tony to whack and new girlfriends for him to fool around with. I did enjoy that scene where Carmela leaves his golf clubs in the driveway, and he drives over them in his SUV.

It was a good show for a stretch, great casting, good acting, mostly solid premises. Like I said, I liked they never tried to sanitize or paint these people as being good or even anti-heroes, they were criminals. I agree it ran past its prime, and the ending scene is one of the most frustrating out there because of its ambiguity.

There is an obsession with the mafia in culture and Hollywood of course feeds from it and to it. Personally I have never had anything but disdain for them as mafiosos represent to me the 'real men' don't hit that girl, but I can hit a girl. I can fuck any woman I want, but if someone touches my wife he's dead and I'll beat her.

The 'whacks' are generally from behind or walking up to someone in a car and shooting them and whoever is with them, and they attack in packs. There is nothing cool or tough or bad ass about them. Knuckle dragging cowards who walk around with 'you know who I am' yeah, a spineless pile of trash with a gun and an ego problem.

Back in the 80's my family had an issue with the Tillinghasts (Gerald the most famous) who had attachments to the Patriarca family. One of my uncles was dragged into a car by four people and found dead, one of my cousins was gang raped. Very brave, these men.

I was in my teens at the time and my father, uncles and older cousins dealt with it, and after some unfortunate things happened to the some of the other sides members, all men, no women, mind you, and few in my family used guns, they'd rather bludgeon you into wishing you were dead, it settled down

Few years later I got in trouble and spent some time 'inside' I have a two inch scar under my ribs from a shanking attempt. One of the younger Tillinghasts. Bad news for him was he didn't realize I was in there for all but killing the guy who raped my sister, and I'll leave it at it didn't end well for him, and bought me a few extra months. I had a few cousins in at the same time so nothing happened after that once the all mighty mob figured out who I was and who they were.

So...you'll have to excuse my disdain for the most over rated asshats in fiction. My erotic horror series features a was between the Chicago mafia and a coven. Although I have some competent and dangerous characters in the "Vitelli Family' I portray them in a very poor light, the one they deserve. For every Bulger or Iceman there was a 100 chickenshit assholes.

 

[lovecraft68]

Henry Hill's real-life son wrote a book about him and - and well, the movie was based on Wiseguy which was mostly created from interviews with Hill and his wife Karen. The movie quotes some of it verbatim. The upshot is that Hill pulled some punches when describing himself and his experiences, and that comes through in Liotta's performance. Yes, Hill admitted to being a mobster, but in both the book and the movie, he comes across as being a better guy, or at least less extreme than his associates - like the characters played by Joe Pesci and Robert De Niro.

If his son is to be believed, Hill was a darker person (and certainly not a reliable parent) than he presented himself to Nicholas Pileggi.

As a side note, neither Henry nor Karen were anywhere near as good-looking as Liotta and Lorraine Bracco, but that's Hollywood for you.

Joe Pesci plays the same loud mouthed twerp in every roll, and in real life would have never made it anywhere, crazy only takes you so far when you're 5 nothing, and most of the people in that lifestyle carry guns and will use them

His death in the end of Casino is one of the most brutal I've ever seen, ranks up their with a lot of horror movie scenes, but being it was so realistic it was way more disturbing...and no character deserved it more.

If you're into mob movies, one that's good and flies under the radar at least in mainstream is a Bronx Tale, its an attempt to see a little more of the human side, but mostly focuses on how easy it can be to get dragged into that lifestyle. Pesci is in it, but barely which is the reason I like it more than most of the genre from that time period.

 

[Crownvic]

Mob movies Icon...we will miss you Ray...

 

[ItalianBWC]

I am very sad.
I don't like American actors very much but he was special.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It was a good show for a stretch, great casting, good acting, mostly solid premises. Like I said, I liked they never tried to sanitize or paint these people as being good or even anti-heroes, they were criminals. I agree it ran past its prime, and the ending scene is one of the most frustrating out there because of its ambiguity.

There is an obsession with the mafia in culture and Hollywood of course feeds from it and to it. Personally I have never had anything but disdain for them as mafiosos represent to me the 'real men' don't hit that girl, but I can hit a girl. I can fuck any woman I want, but if someone touches my wife he's dead and I'll beat her.

The 'whacks' are generally from behind or walking up to someone in a car and shooting them and whoever is with them, and they attack in packs. There is nothing cool or tough or bad ass about them. Knuckle dragging cowards who walk around with 'you know who I am' yeah, a spineless pile of trash with a gun and an ego problem.

Back in the 80's my family had an issue with the Tillinghasts (Gerald the most famous) who had attachments to the Patriarca family. One of my uncles was dragged into a car by four people and found dead, one of my cousins was gang raped. Very brave, these men.

I was in my teens at the time and my father, uncles and older cousins dealt with it, and after some unfortunate things happened to the some of the other sides members, all men, no women, mind you, and few in my family used guns, they'd rather bludgeon you into wishing you were dead, it settled down

Few years later I got in trouble and spent some time 'inside' I have a two inch scar under my ribs from a shanking attempt. One of the younger Tillinghasts. Bad news for him was he didn't realize I was in there for all but killing the guy who raped my sister, and I'll leave it at it didn't end well for him, and bought me a few extra months. I had a few cousins in at the same time so nothing happened after that once the all mighty mob figured out who I was and who they were.

So...you'll have to excuse my disdain for the most over rated asshats in fiction. My erotic horror series features a was between the Chicago mafia and a coven. Although I have some competent and dangerous characters in the "Vitelli Family' I portray them in a very poor light, the one they deserve. For every Bulger or Iceman there was a 100 chickenshit assholes.

As one writer described mobsters, “They are not immigrant populists, or street corner philosophers with benevolent dignity, or tragic, half-ethical Godfathers who draw some line at pushing white powder . . . Powerful mob bosses like Carmine Galente are as bestial as the most vicious elevator mugger you will ever read about . . .They are mean, greedy, small-minded men. ‘Mutts,’ as Joe Hynes likes to call them.”

Jack Newfield and Paul Dubrul, The Abuse of Power: The Permanent Government and The Fall of New York.

 

[lovecraft68]

As one writer described mobsters, “They are not immigrant populists, or street corner philosophers with benevolent dignity, or tragic, half-ethical Godfathers who draw some line at pushing white powder . . . Powerful mob bosses like Carmine Galente are as bestial as the most vicious elevator mugger you will ever read about . . .They are mean, greedy, small-minded men. ‘Mutts,’ as Joe Hynes likes to call them.”

Jack Newfield and Paul Dubrul, The Abuse of Power: The Permanent Government and The Fall of New York.

Much more accurate than most movie portrayals. The myth that they 'protected their own' and were created as some sort of robin hood organization to protect villages in Italy from others might have a little truth to it from back in the day, but once they came here it fell under crime.

Interesting point about your post is in my series, the Vitelli family deals in the usual, gambling, prostitution, protection, strong arming etc, but also has gotten into the coke business. When a rival family, The Ruines' who are from Haiti and use voodoo as a schtick to spread fear and control, decide to broker a huge deal to bring Heroine into their 'menu' Vitelli takes offense, "how can he poison people like that"...I always felt that absurd logic really holds true to those types.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If you haven't seen Heartbreakers, it's worth a look. Sigourney Weaver and Jennifer Love Hewitt play a mother-and-daughter scam team who prey on wealthy men, one of them being Liotta's character. He doesn't get a huge amount of screen time but he's fun in it, and I always have time for Sigourney.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Much more accurate than most movie portrayals. The myth that they 'protected their own' and were created as some sort of robin hood organization to protect villages in Italy from others might have a little truth to it from back in the day, but once they came here it fell under crime.

Interesting point about your post is in my series, the Vitelli family deals in the usual, gambling, prostitution, protection, strong arming etc, but also has gotten into the coke business. When a rival family, The Ruines' who are from Haiti and use voodoo as a schtick to spread fear and control, decide to broker a huge deal to bring Heroine into their 'menu' Vitelli takes offense, "how can he poison people like that"...I always felt that absurd logic really holds true to those types.

There used to be an idea in New York that one was safer from street crime if one happened to live within a couple of blocks of one of their "clubhouses." Maybe that was also considered true in heavily Italian neighborhoods like Belmont and Bensonhurst where they had wider control. Even if that was partially true, they were still bringing in heroin and other drugs that were making the city overall much less safe.

There used to be storefront headquarters that they had in the East Bronx with absurd signs on top that would say "Hunting and Fishing Club," or something else in that vein.

 

[lovecraft68]

There used to be an idea in New York that one was safer from street crime if one happened to live within a couple of blocks of one of their "clubhouses." Maybe that was also considered true in heavily Italian neighborhoods like Belmont and Bensonhurst where they had wider control. Even if that was partially true, they were still bringing in heroin and other drugs that were making the city overall much less safe.

There used to be storefront headquarters that they had in the East Bronx with absurd signs on top that would say "Hunting and Fishing Club," or something else in that vein.

Federal Hill is where they still are here. Atwells ave has a string of Italian restaurants and on the side streets more than one "Elk's club" type places. In the nice weather when people can dine outside, you drive by and see these withered old farts all sitting around a table with three or four much younger and larger men, just lounging around watching the oldsters.

The mob protects the locals is a vicious circle, you need to pay us for protection, but if you don't we're the ones that hurt you. I think you can see the change in over time. Look at the Godfather, the opening scene, Brando is going to avenge a crime committed against someone who knows him. Brando didn't want to get into the drugs(If I recall, its been awhile) there was an effort made to show some type of flawed nobility.....flash to the Sopranos and they're all d-bags who'd kill their own mother if needed.

 

[SimonDoom]

Look at the Godfather, the opening scene, Brando is going to avenge a crime committed against someone who knows him. Brando didn't want to get into the drugs(If I recall, its been awhile) there was an effort made to show some type of flawed nobility.....flash to the Sopranos and they're all d-bags who'd kill their own mother if needed.

The Godfather might be the best movie ever but it does perhaps overdo the idea of the Godfather's sense of honor. The Sopranos seems more realistic to me (not that I have any inside knowledge about what it's like). But over the course of the two movies the Godfather story deconstructs the whole concept of family and honor. In the end, it's just Michael looking out for himself and nothing more.

 

[lovecraft68]

The Godfather might be the best movie ever but it does perhaps overdo the idea of the Godfather's sense of honor. The Sopranos seems more realistic to me (not that I have any inside knowledge about what it's like). But over the course of the two movies the Godfather story deconstructs the whole concept of family and honor. In the end, it's just Michael looking out for himself and nothing more.

Right with Michael and to me it made sense. The prior generation did have some sort of code, the younger ones just saw dollar signs and power.

I think the Godfather V Sopranos is telling of the times we live in. People still wanted to think there was some good in everyone in the 70's by the time of the Sopranos we all knew everyone was trash.

This is where my wife calls me cynical, I prefer pragmatic dammit.

 

[Duleigh]

I'll never forget him as Shoeless Joe Jackson in Field of Dreams, it showed that he could be the good guy too

 

[Bramblethorn]

Federal Hill is where they still are here. Atwells ave has a string of Italian restaurants and on the side streets more than one "Elk's club" type places. In the nice weather when people can dine outside, you drive by and see these withered old farts all sitting around a table with three or four much younger and larger men, just lounging around watching the oldsters.

Reminds me somehow of this one: https://www.vice.com/en/article/594...one-thought-was-a-drug-front-was-a-drug-front

 

[gunhilltrain]

Federal Hill is where they still are here. Atwells ave has a string of Italian restaurants and on the side streets more than one "Elk's club" type places. In the nice weather when people can dine outside, you drive by and see these withered old farts all sitting around a table with three or four much younger and larger men, just lounging around watching the oldsters.

The mob protects the locals is a vicious circle, you need to pay us for protection, but if you don't we're the ones that hurt you. I think you can see the change in over time. Look at the Godfather, the opening scene, Brando is going to avenge a crime committed against someone who knows him. Brando didn't want to get into the drugs(If I recall, its been awhile) there was an effort made to show some type of flawed nobility.....flash to the Sopranos and they're all d-bags who'd kill their own mother if needed.

In what city is Federal Hill?

I have no knowledge of how accurate The Godfather was - like if that "no drugs" policy ever happened. In Goodfellas, there was also a no drugs policy mentioned by Paul Cicero, but I don't remember the reasoning behind it. Somebody - I think it was an undercover cop - wrote that a good chunk of a mobster's day consists of sitting around the clubhouse waiting for something to happen. Thus those guys sitting at the tables outside.

Henry Hill in Wiseguy gives some useful information about the mob, but he also seems to be not the most reliable narrator.