Questions from a nooby, hobbyist "writer."

[lovecraft68]

Will do.

In the meantime I'll be looking into the resources on this site for beta readers and editorial stuff and how it works.

When I have written more, and done even more editing or rewriting(I have to stop this OCD habit of constantly editing but I can't stop myself), I'll see what to do from there.

So:

1. Write Story.
2. Finish Story.
3. Shameless self-promotion.
4. ???
5.Profit.

Profit....you can make money, and without writing full time, but you're not going to be quitting the day job. High end for an indy erotica author is a few hundred a month(of course there are exceptions, but few, and I'm speaking pure erotica not other genres or mixed genres) but its more the thrill someone paid for your stuff.

But if you're having trouble with #2 profit is hard, like lit, you have to build the library and you get forgotten quick...you're as good as your last e-book.

 

[lovecraft68]

He's partially right. Keep up with the thread if you want but as you already said, in your first post, you have written 18,000 words so far. That's pretty ambitious, but don't overthink it. We can't tell you exactly how to do it all.

My own thought is that maybe you should try posting some of it in chapters. Yeah, that violates the rule of thumb that it should be complete before starting installments. I've violated that rule at times, and sometimes it worked and sometimes I regretted it.

Didn't you say you had some unfinished short stories? You can have a pretty good stand-alone story in 4,000 to maybe 7,000 words. You can get your feet wet that way.

Okay, I'll promote one of my own as an example. My entry in the "On The Job" story competition is just under 7,000 words and has two main characters. The central scene covers, maybe, an hour and a half? As for the exposition that concerns you, I didn't have to do any world-building. The setting is based on a real office I worked at in New Jersey. Pretty prosaic, but it worked.

Encountering Alexandria

The one science fiction story I did was partially based on an old Twilight Zone episode. Even though I added some details that Rod Serling didn't have (like the convict's life back on earth), I still got it done in about 6,300 words.

penitentiary planet

There is a case to be made for posting chapters without the story being complete. When I first came here I wrote a long taboo series that ended up going 40+ installments, but only had the first four written. But I knew I had more in the chamber and as time went on people's comments, feedback and saying I can't wait for what's next helped motivate me not to quit.

As far as the 'its not fair to readers if its not finished'? Whatever, they're not paying anything.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There is a case to be made for posting chapters without the story being complete. When I first came here I wrote a long taboo series that ended up going 40+ installments, but only had the first four written. But I knew I had more in the chamber and as time went on people's comments, feedback and saying I can't wait for what's next helped motivate me not to quit.

As far as the 'its not fair to readers if its not finished'? Whatever, they're not paying anything.

You're making a valid point here, although a long series is an ambitious place for a new writer to start. I was suggesting to Jmanchu that he try some shorter works while still continuing work on the longer story.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're making a valid point here, although a long series is an ambitious place for a new writer to start. I was suggesting to Jmanchu that he try some shorter works while still continuing work on the longer story.

Oh, I thought you were saying to take what he had so far and post it in chapter form to see how people responded to it.

 

[SimonDoom]

There is a case to be made for posting chapters without the story being complete. When I first came here I wrote a long taboo series that ended up going 40+ installments, but only had the first four written. But I knew I had more in the chamber and as time went on people's comments, feedback and saying I can't wait for what's next helped motivate me not to quit.

As far as the 'its not fair to readers if its not finished'? Whatever, they're not paying anything.

Ask it this way. If somebody told you, before you published your first four chapters of that series, that it was wrong to do so unless you finished writing the other 36 first, would you have even done it? Hell No. You would have quit and worked on something else. Would your readers be better off if you had done that? Of course not.

When people say, "Write the whole thing first before publishing the first chapter," my response is "That's a great idea in an ideal world. If everybody could do that, it would be better for the readers. But it's not realistic, and if you actually DID impose a rule like that it would just mean fewer stories for readers to enjoy, and less author satisfaction."

Publishing chapters in serial form without finishing the whole thing first worked out just fine for both Charles Dickens and his readers. I reckon Lit readers can do the same thing without feeling too guilty about it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ask it this way. If somebody told you, before you published your first four chapters of that series, that it was wrong to do so unless you finished writing the other 36 first, would you have even done it? Hell No. You would have quit and worked on something else. Would your readers be better off if you had done that? Of course not.

When people say, "Write the whole thing first before publishing the first chapter," my response is "That's a great idea in an ideal world. If everybody could do that, it would be better for the readers. But it's not realistic, and if you actually DID impose a rule like that it would just mean fewer stories for readers to enjoy, and less author satisfaction."

Publishing chapters in serial form without finishing the whole thing first worked out just fine for both Charles Dickens and his readers. I reckon Lit readers can do the same thing without feeling too guilty about it.

I agree, and what readers, and some authors as well, don't seem to understand in their indignation is the human element. People don't set out to not finish, they don't plan to fail, or going further things like illness, hardships, deaths in the family, job changes, or any real world every day events can derail something as trivial as "Oh, if I don't get back to this Joeysucksbigboobs69 is going to get upset with me.

Writing is like anything else, you don't know until you try, and you don't know what people think until you get something out there. I think the OP should break the ice with something he has enough story done to begin a series, then once he sees the response go from there. It could be the catalyst they need to finish.

 

[Jmanchu]

He's partially right. Keep up with the thread if you want but as you already said, in your first post, you have written 18,000 words so far. That's pretty ambitious, but don't overthink it. We can't tell you exactly how to do it all.

My own thought is that maybe you should try posting some of it in chapters. Yeah, that violates the rule of thumb that it should be complete before starting installments. I've violated that rule at times, and sometimes it worked and sometimes I regretted it.

Didn't you say you had some unfinished short stories? You can have a pretty good stand-alone story in 4,000 to maybe 7,000 words. You can get your feet wet that way.

Okay, I'll promote one of my own as an example. My entry in the "On The Job" story competition is just under 7,000 words and has two main characters. The central scene covers, maybe, an hour and a half? As for the exposition that concerns you, I didn't have to do any world-building. The setting is based on a real office I worked at in New Jersey. Pretty prosaic, but it worked.

Encountering Alexandria

The one science fiction story I did was partially based on an old Twilight Zone episode. Even though I added some details that Rod Serling didn't have (like the convict's life back on earth), I still got it done in about 6,300 words.

penitentiary planet

A lot of my unfinished stories have around 3000- 8000 words written with at least 1, 2, or 3+ scene "chapters" fully written.

Most of them(the parts that are completed) could be posted as a standalone "introductory chapter," or even several small chapters(without each individual piece feeling like an incomplete read of a chapter or story segment).

Many of them are years old and I might have to rewrite them a little to update the prose on them(though that could be the OCD perfectionist in me trying to picture what I'll find wrong before I even review em talking). Hmm :|

Speaking of stories, I actually did find a story that I completely forgot existed in my computer that I wrote a long time ago that I have finished(26,000 words total, and the only story I actually finished).

Technically finished too, although maybe as a rough draft. Sucker was written for a chicka, who added her suggestions just so I could make it something special for me and her. I finished it, never edited it. She ended up not wanting to look at it after I told her the word count :|

So it sat in my computer unread and forgotten for years... I dunno the quality of it(I have to read again to check), I doubt it's probably even at half the quality the story I'm working on now is(in terms of gauging current my writing skill vs. back then. Not that I'm saying that my current story is great, but...).

It's probably unreadable too, as I don't think I had a proper concept of pacing in a story back then(maybe I'm being hard on myself here, but that "story rejection" still kinda bums me out when I think about it, even though she never actually read it). But it was a labor of love.

If I shortened it(A lot of it is lengthy, nasty highly descriptive paragraphs getting into very fine details of lengthy sex scene right after a lengthy "foreplay scene."

My writing style philosophy back then had an almost opposite approach to what I try to follow now.

My old writing attitude was "There's details already? More details! Descriptive action? MORE DETAILS! Too many details? MORE DETAILS!"

And pacing used to be "boring parts? ADHD speedrun it until you run headfirst into something that resembles the word fun! About to get dirty? Really, really(And I mean really) take your time building it up! Got to the fun parts? Really space it out!
"Get to the nitty gritty and paragraph after paragraph of description and descriptive actions of what's going on and what is going through their heads and what each action is doing to them both mentally and in a physically reactive way! ... What does this 'Too detailed' mean? Stop speaking alien moonspeak to me! MORE DETAILS!" :|

I could make an alright story with it after I see how bad it is.

There are too many words for what is supposed to be a "quick" story about a classy teacher being manhandled by her student before giving in to her sexually aggressive student's wants and outright enjoying herself in the different sex acts she's essentially subjected to and even gets a little bit of control back while doing the acts.

Maybe I could get an editor to look at it sometime after I see what changes to make it feel less... personal.

And that's even considering me not thinking about "concision" and think not being as concise as possible is a bad thing.

And I'll make sure to check out them stories of yours sometime. > : D Thank you for the links. I appreciate all story links and suggestions here. btw. So keep em coming, folks

 

[Jmanchu]

Profit....you can make money, and without writing full time, but you're not going to be quitting the day job. High end for an indy erotica author is a few hundred a month(of course there are exceptions, but few, and I'm speaking pure erotica not other genres or mixed genres) but its more the thrill someone paid for your stuff.

But if you're having trouble with #2 profit is hard, like lit, you have to build the library and you get forgotten quick...you're as good as your last e-book.

Yeah... That was a badly done South Park meme joke(Phase1: Do action, Phase 2: ?, Phase 3: Profit).
Or... the meme is probably so old that I'm the only one that remembers it still. Maybe I'm a little more behind the times than I thought :|

I meant it something like a joking " Here's what I have so far! 1.I'm going to do said thing, 2.I finish said thing, 3.???, 4.somehow awesome shit happens after following all previous steps."

Basically, my joke was I was gonna get my shit done, then figure out the later parts of getting shit done after(publishing, and the sweet reward of actually getting some shit done for once and all the headaches it might come with). But my meme joke delivery sucks

and I always have had problems with #2. It's the one thing I have never been able to deal with effectively. I do try things, and one thing that I find that helps is writing with background music(long as there are no clear lyrics).

Even then it only works so well. But lately I've been able to get bits and pieces done, even when I slow down. so that's good :|

 

[ElectricBlue]

Still here, Jmanchu? Your writing desk is over there -->

 

[gunhilltrain]

Oh, I thought you were saying to take what he had so far and post it in chapter form to see how people responded to it.

I guess I did say, or imply, that. It's sort of his choice. He could do that to start getting some feedback. I've never attempted anything that long, and even so, I've run into trouble completing a series. Now that I think of it, him getting something, anything, submitted would be worth it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Still here, Jmanchu? Your writing desk is over there -->

He's got a good point. From your last couple of posts, it seems that you are way overthinking this. The reason I posted two of my own stories - beyond shameless self-promotion - was to encourage you to try to keep it simple. For the science fiction story, I only went a bit beyond what Rod Serling had written. The details about Philadephia, the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections, and the Zola Corporation - which are not in Serling's original - are condensed into a few paragraphs.

 

[Jmanchu]

I guess I did say, or imply, that. It's sort of his choice. He could do that to start getting some feedback. I've never attempted anything that long, and even so, I've run into trouble completing a series. Now that I think of it, him getting something, anything, submitted would be worth it.

I could get the first chapter of a few of my unfinished stories published, and one completed story(still undecided if I should, as it was originally a personal story for someone that didn't want to look at after all my work there).

All could be published as is(I've looked at them, and the grammar looks clean enough as can be).

Or have beta reading/editing resources to look at it for me and see how to either improve them in some way plot-wise, or get any new kinds of ideas about the characters and plot that could make the story better.(overthinking, overplanning I know).

I could still work on all those unfinished stories later for making parts 2 and/or 3 for them as I still remember the plots and characters very vividly in each, including the endings for the ones that I have thought of the ending.

I'll start by at least lurking in the editorial forums and resources for beta reading and editing services and see what that's all about. Then I'll go from there.

Gotta self motivate and get shit done. I have been making slow progress in my current story, in the meantime. Almost finished another scene of the story.

And overthinking things is what I do best. It's my super power. > : D

Still here, Jmanchu? Your writing desk is over there -->

Uh... Let me get to that! ... Just gotta close some pesky youtube video tabs... random articles... minimize games...

 

[Bramblethorn]

There is a case to be made for posting chapters without the story being complete. When I first came here I wrote a long taboo series that ended up going 40+ installments, but only had the first four written. But I knew I had more in the chamber and as time went on people's comments, feedback and saying I can't wait for what's next helped motivate me not to quit.

Same. If I had it in me to write a whole novel before posting, I would, but for me that leads to a half-finished novel in the drafts folder. For me, getting feedback as I go plus not wanting to disappoint readers who are waiting on the next chapter is the fuel I need to get to the end of the story.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Same. If I had it in me to write a whole novel before posting, I would, but for me that leads to a half-finished novel in the drafts folder. For me, getting feedback as I go plus not wanting to disappoint readers who are waiting on the next chapter is the fuel I need to get to the end of the story.

I have this irrational fear that if I start a long story and post installments as I go, I’ll get hit by a bus or something and leave behind an unfinished work.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have this irrational fear that if I start a long story and post installments as I go, I’ll get hit by a bus or something and leave behind an unfinished work.

It could happen! But I file that away under uncertainties one just has to accept.

It's funny, this is an area where amateur writers here are often more cautious than a lot of professional authors.

One of the authors I follow is Seanan McGuire. She's worth a look for anybody interested in the pragmatic side of writing as a business. At any one time she has about three or four different series in progress plus various side projects, under a couple of different pen names. She's not rich and she depends on sales for a living, so if one of those series isn't selling, she has to drop it and switch to something else that will pay its way, even when that means disappointing both herself and the readers who were still following that series.

That also means she can't afford to write a ten-book series that might get axed after book two; every update to a series depends on the previous volume selling enough to keep the publisher interested.

For authors writing in a contemporary setting, there's also the risk that the world will change in ways that invalidate the story. I know of one author who had to scrap and redo a large chunk of work for a series set in the UK because he hadn't anticipated quite how Brexit would turn out.

I'm struggling to think of any major pro writer who completed a whole series before publishing the first installment. Sometimes it goes wrong (Edwin Drood, probably A Song of Ice and Fire, various other examples) but mostly it works out. Even when those series don't get completed, I think many readers would rather have the incomplete series than none at all.

(And of course, in pro publishing land, if readers wait for the whole series to be complete before buying book 1, the series dies at book 1 and the author goes off to a higher-paying job stacking shelves or working call centre.)

 

[ElectricBlue]

Uh... Let me get to that! ... Just gotta close some pesky youtube video tabs... random articles... minimize games...

You, sir, are an expert procrastinator. Get on with it, man .

 

[SimonDoom]

I have this irrational fear that if I start a long story and post installments as I go, I’ll get hit by a bus or something and leave behind an unfinished work.

That's life, isn't it?

It's not really avoidable. Seems to me the "I might get hit by a bus" is the worst possible strategy for doing just about anything.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's life, isn't it?

It's not really avoidable. Seems to me the "I might get hit by a bus" is the worst possible strategy for doing just about anything.

It's my fundamental project management test - have we got enough written down so someone coming in blind can figure out what the fuck we were doing.

 

[Jmanchu]

You, sir, are an expert procrastinator. Get on with it, man .

That is one of the skills I have worked until I'm a master at it. With my weaponized ADHD, there are few that can match my time wastin' skill. Although, today I did buckle down and write 3000 words to make up for the nearly non-existent progress I did yesterday. Dunno how good 3000 in one day is(with OCD grammar and prose editing and constant re-reading to check for stuff to boot) so now 21,000+ words.

 

[Jmanchu]

Same. If I had it in me to write a whole novel before posting, I would, but for me that leads to a half-finished novel in the drafts folder. For me, getting feedback as I go plus not wanting to disappoint readers who are waiting on the next chapter is the fuel I need to get to the end of the story.

Then, my plan might be to get the first chapter published after I get a certain character properly introduced(I have a paragraph of exposition about him that once I introduce him, I'll be able to figure out what parts to remove from his expository introduction in that chapter).

Dunno how many scenes it'll take but once I do write that fated chapter, then...

1. edit the first chapter then look for editor/beta readers

2. ???

3. profit

That's the new plan

 

[lovecraft68]

That's life, isn't it?

It's not really avoidable. Seems to me the "I might get hit by a bus" is the worst possible strategy for doing just about anything.

This is why I have a hedonistic philosophy. Live each day as if it were your last because it could be your last.

 

[Jmanchu]

I have this irrational fear that if I start a long story and post installments as I go, I’ll get hit by a bus or something and leave behind an unfinished work.

Oof. That would really suck. If that happened to me, all stories I have would be gone. All my plot outlines for every story I have, partially written or unwritten, is entirely housed in my head. Maybe I should write those outlines down, but Outlines are not useful to me(can't seem to stick to em reliably):|

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I told my husband he better finish mine and do something with them if I die unexpectedly.

When I start my multi-part series I’m absolutely setting up a succession plan in case I ever need someone else to finish them.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Oof. That would really suck. If that happened to me, all stories I have would be gone. All my plot outlines for every story I have, partially written or unwritten, is entirely housed in my head. Maybe I should write those outlines down, but Outlines are not useful to me(can't seem to stick to em reliably):|

I don't know what your religious beliefs are, but possibly you will never even be aware of what happened. (Rest In Peace, in indeed.) Maybe they have word processors in the afterlife.

I just noticed: you are not kidding about having ADHD, are you? I had thought you were just using some hyperbole to make a point. If you do have it, are you being treated for it? I know someone who has it, and she took medications at one point. I know I'm butting into your life, but you've mentioned it at least twice already.

 

[Jmanchu]

I don't know what your religious beliefs are, but possibly you will never even be aware of what happened. (Rest In Peace, in indeed.) Maybe they have word processors in the afterlife.

I just noticed: you are not kidding about having ADHD, are you? I had thought you were just using some hyperbole to make a point. If you do have it, are you being treated for it? I know someone who has it, and she took medications at one point. I know I'm butting into your life, but you've mentioned it at least twice already.

My religious beliefs? My own personal spiritual beliefs based on psychedelics I've taken(Not kidding.)

Oh I am not kidding at all about my ADHD. Fully unmedicated, fully unhinged, my friend. When I was younger though, I was. My ritalin dosage was about twice the normal amounts for kids my age back then if I remember correctly(I think it got up to 20 mg per dose when I was 12, But it's so long ago I can't remember). If that means anything.