Question for Hans and Busybody

[LadyG]

Do you ever go to sites that aren't about war or hate mongering?

Just curious to know if you spend 24/7 surfing every known news site, world wide, looking for inane tidbits in order to spread your hatred?

It's cool and all, but...doesn't it get repetitive?

Or wait...are you just using one or two articles and changing the countries' names ?

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyG]

Apologies for not joining in with your type of 'interesting' debate (cock/cunt size, squirting methods, friction rate during sex etc etc)

Um, sorry to disappoint you but you would be hard pressed to find me posting in those debates.

I thought you were a soldier, fighting the evil in the world? Or did you have a career change ?

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyG]

Okay cool, I didn't know you were no longer in military.

 

[busybody..]

Do you ever go to sites that aren't about war or hate mongering?

Just curious to know if you spend 24/7 surfing every known news site, world wide, looking for inane tidbits in order to spread your hatred?

It's cool and all, but...doesn't it get repetitive?

Or wait...are you just using one or two articles and changing the countries' names ?

LG

A fair question deserves a fair answer.

First off, I dispute the terms of "Hate and War Mongering"!

I read several hundred web sites as well as have the ability to gain information not readily available.

I recognize the dangers we (the US and the West) face, I further recognize who the danger is from.

I also recognize that war is always bad and should be avoided. However, when there is no alternative sometimes War is the only option.

I read and understand what the anti war crowd is saying, and based on all that I know and based on my understanding of current events, they are WRONG. I point you to the fact that Europe was AGAINST the deployment of the MX missle in the 80's and was against the strong stand the US took vis a vis the Soviet Union, they were wrong then as well.

In short, I dont characterize my comments of War against our enemies and against Muslims/Arabs as hate. JUST REALISTIC.

Yes, when I say ALL Muslims/Arabs it is wrong because not ALL of them are in the terror camp. However, since I nor anyone else is able to distinguish between the good and the bad, they are all suspect.

I would point something out to you. During all these demonstrations thruout the world.....there were NO calls for the FREEDOM of the IRAQI PEOPLE.....and NO CALLS FOR IRAQI DISARMAMENT.....

And one final note.....

Let us assume that 2,000,000 took part in the demonstrations.......It is still LESS than the number Saddam has killed in his reign...... why are those deaths IGNORED??????

 

[LadyG]

I understand what you're saying, but....Saddam is guilty of killing tens of thousands of people WHILE he was being funded by the U.S. and no one cared THEN.

Why now, is it a bone of contention?

 

[Freya]

Psssssst.



Hi LG - long time no see.

 

[busybody..]

I understand what you're saying, but....Saddam is guilty of killing tens of thousands of people WHILE he was being funded by the U.S. and no one cared THEN.

Why now, is it a bone of contention?

You may reacall the US funding was to counteract Iran.....so that Iran did not become the 800 lb gorilla of the ME.

The US aided Iraq to defend and balance aginst Iran NOT to kill his own people and gas his own people. It was Germany and France that aided Iraq build a nuke capability and have WMDs.

Saddam turned into a monster and has to be taken out.

When circumstances change policy should as well. Just as we were enemies of Russia before should we still be?

"Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of simple minds" Ralph Waldo Emerson!

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyG]

Okay, thanks for clearing it up for me!

BTW, Hate mongering was only because you seem to target ALL muslims as enemies, whereas it's a percentage.

That's like saying all black people are gang bangers.

 

[busybody..]

Lady G

It is WRONG for me to say ALL, I recognize that. The percentage is larger then you believe. And it is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between the good and bad, thus they are ALL suspect.

BTW....Did you know that:

1- The policy of Regime Change was enacted under the Clinton Administration?

and

2- The Congress voted to use all available means INCLUDING WAR to implement the above?

All under Clinton!

The same folks that are fighting us now were the same that gave carte blanche to Clinton! I suspect that most of this opposition is really against a Republican Bush!

 

[busybody..]

LG

What would YOU want to be done with Iraq and its WMDs?

 

[LadyG]

Well....Here's something:

Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.

Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM. They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their job is to oversee the elimination of Iraq's capability to retain, create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq does not attempt to rebuild that capability.

The inspectors undertook this mission first 7 1/2 years ago at the end of the Gulf War when Iraq agreed to declare and destroy its arsenal as a condition of the ceasefire.

The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.

The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.

The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM as Iraq has sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with the inspectors. On occasion, we've had to threaten military force, and Saddam has backed down.

Faced with Saddam's latest act of defiance in late October, we built intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military force in the region. The UN Security Council voted 15 to zero to condemn Saddam's actions and to demand that he immediately come into compliance.

Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the UN.

When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the UN that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors.

I decided then to call off the attack with our airplanes already in the air because Saddam had given in to our demands. I concluded then that the right thing to do was to use restraint and give Saddam one last chance to prove his willingness to cooperate.

I made it very clear at that time what unconditional cooperation meant, based on existing UN resolutions and Iraq's own commitments. And along with Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully, we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning.

Now over the past three weeks, the UN weapons inspectors have carried out their plan for testing Iraq's cooperation. The testing period ended this weekend, and last night, UNSCOM's chairman, Richard Butler, reported the results to UN Secretary-General Annan.

The conclusions are stark, sobering and profoundly disturbing.

In four out of the five categories set forth, Iraq has failed to cooperate. Indeed, it actually has placed new restrictions on the inspectors. Here are some of the particulars.

Iraq repeatedly blocked UNSCOM from inspecting suspect sites. For example, it shut off access to the headquarters of its ruling party and said it will deny access to the party's other offices, even though UN resolutions make no exception for them and UNSCOM has inspected them in the past.

Iraq repeatedly restricted UNSCOM's ability to obtain necessary evidence. For example, Iraq obstructed UNSCOM's effort to photograph bombs related to its chemical weapons program.

It tried to stop an UNSCOM biological weapons team from videotaping a site and photocopying documents and prevented Iraqi personnel from answering UNSCOM's questions.

Prior to the inspection of another site, Iraq actually emptied out the building, removing not just documents but even the furniture and the equipment.

Iraq has failed to turn over virtually all the documents requested by the inspectors. Indeed, we know that Iraq ordered the destruction of weapons-related documents in anticipation of an UNSCOM inspection.

So Iraq has abused its final chance.

As the UNSCOM reports concludes, and again I quote, "Iraq's conduct ensured that no progress was able to be made in the fields of disarmament.

"In light of this experience, and in the absence of full cooperation by Iraq, it must regrettably be recorded again that the commission is not able to conduct the work mandated to it by the Security Council with respect to Iraq's prohibited weapons program."

In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they could stay in Iraq, their work would be a sham.

Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors.

This situation presents a clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere. The international community gave Saddam one last chance to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors. Saddam has failed to seize the chance.

And so we had to act and act now.

Let me explain why.

First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years.

Second, if Saddam can crippled the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community -- led by the United States -- has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday -- make no mistake -- he will use it again as he has in the past.

Third, in halting our air strikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction program; we also will have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination in the region.

That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq.

They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.

At the same time, we are delivering a powerful message to Saddam. If you act recklessly, you will pay a heavy price. We acted today because, in the judgment of my military advisers, a swift response would provide the most surprise and the least opportunity for Saddam to prepare.

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.

Also, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins this weekend. For us to initiate military action during Ramadan would be profoundly offensive to the Muslim world and, therefore, would damage our relations with Arab countries and the progress we have made in the Middle East.

That is something we wanted very much to avoid without giving Iraq a month's head start to prepare for potential action against it.

Finally, our allies, including Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, concurred that now is the time to strike. I hope Saddam will come into cooperation with the inspection system now and comply with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions. But we have to be prepared that he will not, and we must deal with the very real danger he poses.

So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.

First, we must be prepared to use force again if Saddam takes threatening actions, such as trying to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction or their delivery systems, threatening his neighbors, challenging allied aircraft over Iraq or moving against his own Kurdish citizens.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War.

Second, so long as Iraq remains out of compliance, we will work with the international community to maintain and enforce economic sanctions. Sanctions have cost Saddam more than $120 billion -- resources that would have been used to rebuild his military. The sanctions system allows Iraq to sell oil for food, for medicine, for other humanitarian supplies for the Iraqi people.

We have no quarrel with them. But without the sanctions, we would see the oil-for-food program become oil-for-tanks, resulting in a greater threat to Iraq's neighbors and less food for its people.

The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world.

The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people. Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently.

The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties.

Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm's way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion.

We must be prepared for these realities. At the same time, Saddam should have absolutely no doubt if he lashes out at his neighbors, we will respond forcefully.

Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people.

And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them.

Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future.

Let me close by addressing one other issue. Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down.

But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so.

In the century we're leaving, America has often made the difference between chaos and community, fear and hope. Now, in the new century, we'll have a remarkable opportunity to shape a future more peaceful than the past, but only if we stand strong against the enemies of peace.

Tonight, the United States is doing just that. May God bless and protect the brave men and women who are carrying out this vital mission and their families. And may God bless America.

--William Jefferson Clinton, December 16, 1998.



It's kind of interesting how the "pacifist" Clinton, who "let Iraq get away with defying the UN for 8 years" (he kicked out inspectors in '98 people, not '92), wanted to bomb Iraq -- and most Republicans questioned it.

I could probably find dozens of quotes from people like Dick Armey and Trent Lott, who kept questioning Clinton and his motives on Iraq.

Of course, the people that support these guys now are saying it's all Clinton's fault for not being after Saddam.

People have short memories.

 

[busybody..]

LG

A speech that Bush could have made.

I think what many Repos were upset about was that the "bombing" was haphazzard and without purpose. There was no plan beyond a few days of bombing that was futile!

The "plan" of Clinton vis a vis that of Bush is akin to riding a tricycle to a sportscar!

 

[busybody..]

LG

It should be further noted that what Clinton did was lob cruise missles into EMPTY buildings at nite.....

USELESS!

 

[Ms_Lilith]

Just have to pop my head in to say that busybody isn't just all about hate and war mongering... *grin* He's a nice guy.

 

[busybody..]

Just have to pop my head in to say that busybody isn't just all about hate and war mongering... *grin* He's a nice guy.

Now now VIX,

We wouldnt wanna tell people my real persona would we?

I am MEAN, Grrr, Nasty, Grrrr etc etc etc

We dont want everyone to know what a great guy I really am do we???

Hope all is well with you!

 

[Ms_Lilith]

all is well, just sleep deprived...

*grin*

Sorry for outing your secret!

 

[busybody..]

Vix

Hope you wer UP for a good reason!

 

[Ms_Lilith]

nope. Had to hand in a paper.

lol