Punishment

[WriterDom]

I don't care to comment about the dynamics of vixen's relationship, but I do see a danger out of acting out of anger. Especially with a man with what the law would consider a weapon in his hand. When the fight reflex kicks in, common sense can go out the door. What happens if the first thing he sees is a cane?

 

[serijules]

Not everyones walks into the lifestyle or a relationship completely understanding the dynamics of it all, including their own actions and behaviors.

I have been involved in the lifestyle and various relationships for about 5 years now, and I am still learning to become comfortable with my submission. This includes moments where I don't act in appropriate ways for whatever reason. Sometimes I don't address my Domme properly because the pure submission of that little act frightens me a bit. So as a result, sometimes I lash out in other ways....by refusing to address her as Ma'am, by looking away, by getting sullen and moody. It is acceptable behavior on my part? No, not really. Is it dealt with by discipline? Yes, sometimes. Does this make me manipulative and selfish? Neither of us think so, since I am getting better at it every time.

If I refused to learn and grow from my mistakes, then yes, such behavior would be abusive on my part. As cliche` as that may sound, I truly believe it. I have acted bratty many times, I tend to be mouthy alot when faced with something that makes me unsure. My Domme doesn't always put up with it, but she usually makes sure I learn something about myself from the behavior, and uses it as a chance to get me past whatever it is that I am unsure of or whatever it is that is making me act that way.

Some here seem completely unwilling to have that kind of tolerance and while that may work for them, it doesn't work for everyone, and I myself don't understand it yet. That's ok though, it isn't the kind of relationship I am ready to be in or desire to be in...maybe someday that and my own behavior will change. Then again, maybe I will find out the way I am now is just fine, and works not only for me but for others involved with me.

My point is, bratty behavior has its uses and a valid place for some. It can be a stepping stone to a more direct and less disrespectful communication style. Everyone starts somewhere, perhaps vixen isn't at a level yet where she is comfortable asking for what she wants, or being able to accept that she can't always have what she wants. There is nothing wrong with that unless it is something you do not accept or tolerate in your own relationships, which is irrelevent since the simple fix to that is not to be in such relationships. If she hit her Dom every single time she didn't get what she wanted, then I would consider that abusive, but since that really doesn't seem to be the case, and she got more than she bargained for in this instance, perhaps she'll have learned something from it and made a step up to a more respectful communcation and behavior level, it that is what her Dom, and herself, desires.

If not...well...it ain't my problem to worry about

Just my thoughts on the matter

 

[A Desert Rose]

I don't care to comment about the dynamics of vixen's relationship, but I do see a danger out of acting out of anger. Especially with a man with what the law would consider a weapon in his hand. When the fight reflex kicks in, common sense can go out the door. What happens if the first thing he sees is a cane?

Or his 3 wood?

 

[ethereal~minx]

Not everyones walks into the lifestyle or a relationship completely understanding the dynamics of it all, including their own actions and behaviors.

I have been involved in the lifestyle and various relationships for about 5 years now, and I am still learning to become comfortable with my submission. This includes moments where I don't act in appropriate ways for whatever reason. Sometimes I don't address my Domme properly because the pure submission of that little act frightens me a bit. So as a result, sometimes I lash out in other ways....by refusing to address her as Ma'am, by looking away, by getting sullen and moody. It is acceptable behavior on my part? No, not really. Is it dealt with by discipline? Yes, sometimes. Does this make me manipulative and selfish? Neither of us think so, since I am getting better at it every time.

If I refused to learn and grow from my mistakes, then yes, such behavior would be abusive on my part. As cliche` as that may sound, I truly believe it. I have acted bratty many times, I tend to be mouthy alot when faced with something that makes me unsure. My Domme doesn't always put up with it, but she usually makes sure I learn something about myself from the behavior, and uses it as a chance to get me past whatever it is that I am unsure of or whatever it is that is making me act that way.

Some here seem completely unwilling to have that kind of tolerance and while that may work for them, it doesn't work for everyone, and I myself don't understand it yet. That's ok though, it isn't the kind of relationship I am ready to be in or desire to be in...maybe someday that and my own behavior will change. Then again, maybe I will find out the way I am now is just fine, and works not only for me but for others involved with me.

My point is, bratty behavior has its uses and a valid place for some. It can be a stepping stone to a more direct and less disrespectful communication style. Everyone starts somewhere, perhaps vixen isn't at a level yet where she is comfortable asking for what she wants, or being able to accept that she can't always have what she wants. There is nothing wrong with that unless it is something you do not accept or tolerate in your own relationships, which is irrelevent since the simple fix to that is not to be in such relationships. If she hit her Dom every single time she didn't get what she wanted, then I would consider that abusive, but since that really doesn't seem to be the case, and she got more than she bargained for in this instance, perhaps she'll have learned something from it and made a step up to a more respectful communcation and behavior level, it that is what her Dom, and herself, desires.

If not...well...it ain't my problem to worry about

Just my thoughts on the matter

serijules~ thank you for adding to this, I so appreciate your view as it mirrors my own.

[I didn't know or read that vix got more than she bargained for and is freaking out about it... (*ugh* the thought really bothers me~ I pray this wasn't a cry of help) and if that is true, I would have an entirely different take]

 

[lark sparrow]

I could choose to submit to a woman and kneel when she told me to and wear what she wanted me to, and generally never challenge her in the open, and learn to enjoy being tied up and spanked.

That's really sick. It's a pathological and dependent behavior. I obviously have deep seated issues in my childhood to cause me to want such a thing.

What, this is narrow minded, right?

We're treading in interesting territory now, aren't we?

I haven't been following vixenshe's posts that closely over the last year. It's very easy for me to shudder at wanting what she obvoiusly wants in a relationship, but that's perfectly predictable....as for whether something is good for someone else or bad, I think I need to know them really well, like as well as I know M who I live with...before I can make that call. We project pretty tightly contstructed versions of ourselves online anyway, many mirrors much smoke.

Look, if a single one of us can honestly say we've never acted out in a relationship, been a manipulative baby, and generally been an asshole, bravo and kudos. Most of us, I think, tread through more conflict than that.

A thwack with a flogger may seem like the consummate affront to your personhood, Johnny, but it's not inherently that damaging unless you mean to be out for blood.

Would you throw a girlfriend out if she hit you with a pillow? Maybe you would. The majority of us, might not.

Interesting point. Frankly I can't even imagine whipping a Dominant because I was frustrated that they would not whip me, and I think a slap in the face in return would be utterly justified. It did raise red flags to me that she got the whipping she tried to force, and that he was probably doing it in the heat of an angry and pushed moment... but I have crossed lines, verbally, as would be more my natural inclination rather than physically...acting out happens and manifests itself in different ways.

I still can't imagine ever being forgiven for taking a whip to a Dominant however lightly in frustration, but that's just me. I'm pretty sure I've given a tongue lashing or two in my worst moments. But then I usually paid with a withdrawal and a longer-term lessening of belief, rather than a return of verbal assualt that was twice what I gave or asked for.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

so, You believe in the original sin then... guilty until redeemed? have you seen "Lean on me" ..that math teacher that chose to see his class of "losers" as winners? there is inspiration in all of us~ we are all meant to soar with the eagles, to reach a higher truth~~~~ even when the behavior appears otherwise..."what we see is what we are"

look inside~ no one is plagued with the original sin and the sooner that is recognized so they can see it themselves, the sooner the behavior will balance itself out... we behave to get our needs met.. and until we have seen/known/learned a more harmonious way to get those needs met, our behavior may be outta control ... *the more I think about this, the more I think you were baiting me with that comment~~just to get a rise...*

the more you see the world through your own reflection~~~ the brighter you yourself become because it's there, at those moments of reflection, that you find out who you truly are.. strong not weak

I have no idea what you are talking about with 'original sin', I'm an Atheist, we don't do that whole 'sin' business....

What I do know about is that people with trauma(rape, child abuse, etc) in their history tend to grasp at the illusion of strength, the illusion of control, by engaging in unhealthy behavior.

Something else that disturbs me, is the automatic assumption that either vixenshe is a victim, or she isn't. What about the notion that she is a victimizer? She is the one who started the physical altercation, and if you have been following the sordid mess from the begining(thank you, Anelize... ), you will see that she has sort of dragged her boyfriend along through a twisted maze of her 'exploration'. No one seems to ever really talk about him, as though only a woman can be a victim, or abused.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Interesting point. Frankly I can't even imagine whipping a Dominant because I was frustrated that they would not whip me, and I think a slap in the face in return would be utterly justified. It did raise red flags to me that she got the whipping she tried to force, and that he was probably doing it in the heat of an angry and pushed moment... but I have crossed lines, verbally, as would be more my natural inclination rather than physically...acting out happens and manifests itself in different ways.

I still can't imagine ever being forgiven for taking a whip to a Dominant however lightly in frustration, but that's just me. I'm pretty sure I've given a tongue lashing or two in my worst moments. But then I usually paid with a withdrawal and a longer-term lessening of belief, rather than a return of verbal assualt that was twice what I gave or asked for.

The highlighted part is what made me sit up too...that seemed like a rather odd dynamic, you know?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Something else that disturbs me, is the automatic assumption that either vixenshe is a victim, or she isn't. What about the notion that she is a victimizer? She is the one who started the physical altercation, and if you have been following the sordid mess from the begining(thank you, Anelize... ), you will see that she has sort of dragged her boyfriend along through a twisted maze of her 'exploration'. No one seems to ever really talk about him, as though only a woman can be a victim, or abused.

Sometimes the big bad wolf dresses in Grandma's nightgown to catch the innocent and unsuspecting lil Red Riding Hood. I prefer more open and direct submission where I am what I say I am and do not have to manipulate and give myself all the things I say I long for. There is a reward in waiting and having something given. I am concerned with the whole incident, given that this man was told long ago that V would live out her fantasies with others if he did not give her what he said he couldn't.

Attrition has a strange way of making it look like everything worked out well in the end, but I would say this latest incident shows it may not be all as it should be in that he is acting as Dominant because he found it was who he was, but more because emotionally he had invested a long time in the vanilla relationship and could not face losing it. The repercussions perhaps are violent outbursts and acting out in anger, frustration and personal pain, not D/s. Just my observations over the long time we have been exposed to this through multiple threads keeping us up to date with proceedings and all involved, maybe I am seeing something that is not there.

Catalina

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

*snip*. Just my observations over the long time we have been exposed to this through multiple threads keeping us up to date with proceedings and all involved, maybe I am seeing something that is not there.

Catalina

Or, maybe we are able toi see more clearly, because we are not so close to the situation? Isn't that why people put their lives out in public, because they know they have no perspective?

Honestly, I see everything that vizenshe has posted to be a cry for...validation, I guess is the word. She seeks so much attention because somewhere deep down she knows she is all fucked up, and she knows that the pollyannas on Lit will support whatever insane behavior she engages in this week.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Not a Pollyanna BUT

I support Vixie because I know her. Like i said in my original posting..to people who don't know her intimately..what occured smacks of abuse. As i have stated elsewhere...personally I would never allow my boy or girl to do such to me ...nor would i do that to anyone I consider Dominant. That doesn't (in my mind) make me any better or any worse than she.

*JM..What I do know about is that people with trauma(rape, child abuse, etc) in their history tend to grasp at the illusion of strength, the illusion of control, by engaging in unhealthy behavior.*

Speaking as such a one who has dealt with physical, mental and sexual abuse...I don't grasp at or for ANYTHING. Painting a group by one person's example is nearly as damning as saying that everyone who acts out (when they are exceedingly new to THIS lifestyle) must be acting as an abuser or being abused. That is way too much generalization.

I don't make it a point to follow my *friends* lives on the board. I hear about it in e-mails, on the phone and in other ways. If i were Vixie, I definately would not have put this out in a public forum..especially since the direction it took was not what she was hoping for. For those of You who have follwed her life on the boards all i can say is simply this...i knew when He decided to step up and take over as her *Owner* because it put me in a bad place.

Whenever i have had the pleasure of talking to her, she is cheerful, busy, well adjusted and CONTENT. So like i said before...who the fuck are we to judge something we have no intimate knowledge of??

This thread went from a punishment thread to something else entirely...and it's a shame that it happened.

pet

 

[His Flower]

Anyways, going back on the original topic.

The last things I was punished for was

1) I brought Shoes - yep, I'm a shopaholic, and I have no problem admitting it, so each purchase I make over $20, I'm suppose to ask for permission. And I assumed he wouldn't let me buy the shoes, so I didn't ask, and brought them. I couldn't get past myself and told him afterwards anyways. I was made to return the shoes the next day, and I'm awaiting the next part of my punishment today.

2) Trying to manipulate him. I was aching for a spanking...and I acted like a brat instead of just asking for it. Needless to say, I didn't get what I want, but did get what I deserved.

His Flower