Prison: rehabilitation or retribution?

[renard_ruse]

What should be the main purpose of our correctional system?

Is it primarily to deter, to reform, or to wreak vengence on those who commit crimes or are otherwise deemed bad by society?

It seems that rehabilitation is no longer the main purpose of our prison and correctional systems.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Neither. It's to prevent economic chaos by keeping what would otherwise be a huge unemployed underclass off the streets.

 

[oggbashan]

What should be the main purpose of our correctional system?

Is it primarily to deter, to reform, or to wreak vengence on those who commit crimes or are otherwise deemed bad by society?

It seems that rehabilitation is no longer the main purpose of our prison and correctional systems.

I'm not sure that rehabilitation was ever the main purpose.

Rehabilitation is the most cost-effective use of the correctional systems but has always been underfunded compared with just incarceration. If an offender is wholly rehabilitated so that no further offences are committed that is a considerable saving to the tax-payer.

But many prison inmates are repeat offenders. While they are in prison they are not committing crimes and it is a relatively few individuals in any community that are responsible for the majority of crimes. In my town I notice when specific people are in or out of jail. The crime statistics can be improved by the imprisonment of just one person.

The last time one known 'toe-rag' was convicted he asked for over 100 other offences, mainly low value burglaries to fund his hard drug addiction, to be 'taken into consideration' in the sentencing, thus wiping his slate clean.

There is suspicion that such 't-i-c's are encouraged and used by the local Police to improve their conviction and detection stats, but given the individual concerned I doubt that he was lying.

IF he could be successfully helped to end his drug habit while in prison or on probation, it would benefit the community. But he has been on several ineffective drug addiction programmes already.

 

[renard_ruse]

I'm not sure that rehabilitation was ever the main purpose...

At one time, the penalty for most crimes was death. I thought that the original idea of prison as opposed to just killing criminals was that they could be rehabilitated.

 

[oggbashan]

At one time, the penalty for most crimes was death. I thought that the original idea of prison as opposed to just killing criminals was that they could be rehabilitated.

Some of the problem with the extensive use of the death penalty is that juries refused to convict, even when the evidence was overwhelming, because they considered the death sentence disproportionate. In Canterbury under Cromwell's Protectorate, two juries refused to convict fellow citizens of celebrating Christmas - because the sentence would have been death. The juries were sent to prison, but didn't change their verdicts.

Victorian prisons, particularly for sentences with hard labour, we meant to be as unpleasant as possible to deter prisoners from risking another custodial sentence.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Segregation.

 

[renard_ruse]

Some of the problem with the extensive use of the death penalty is that juries refused to convict, even when the evidence was overwhelming, because they considered the death sentence disproportionate. In Canterbury under Cromwell's Protectorate, two juries refused to convict fellow citizens of celebrating Christmas - because the sentence would have been death. The juries were sent to prison, but didn't change their verdicts.

Victorian prisons, particularly for sentences with hard labour, we meant to be as unpleasant as possible to deter prisoners from risking another custodial sentence.

Ok, I think the history of incarceration is too complex to reduce to a few paragraphs. There is probably truth in what both of us are saying.

I guess the question is whether the main focus today should be on rehabilitation or on vindictive punishment, especially for first offenders.

For example, should someone who does something petty like forgetting to file their income tax once have to be locked away for five years where they will be repeatedly sodomized against their wishes and probably beaten and abused in myriad other ways as well as no longer being able to constructively contribute to society?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Apparently, the principal practical purpose of incarceration is incarceration. It takes persons who have showm themselves disposed to commit crimes, and takes them out of circulation for a while; that's all. It works. Stricter law-enforcement and sentencing have caused the American crime rate to go down over the past 20 years. The price we pay for that is the world's largest incarcerated population relative to the general population. Too high a price, IMO.

 

[eyer]

What should be the main purpose of our correctional system?

Is it primarily to deter, to reform, or to wreak vengence on those who commit crimes or are otherwise deemed bad by society?

It seems that rehabilitation is no longer the main purpose of our prison and correctional systems.

What?

Simple punishment as a consequence of action(s) is no longer in vogue?

 

[warrior queen]

Prisons used to be about punishment.
Now, they're single cells with tv, labour laws and catered meals.

 

[renard_ruse]

Prisons used to be about punishment.
Now, they're single cells with tv, labour laws and catered meals.

The old myth of prison as some sort of happyland. I doubt that's what its like even in Australia, but I guarantee its not that way in most institutions in the US. I've heard even the so-called "country club" prisons are pretty horrible places.

 

[renard_ruse]

What?

Simple punishment as a consequence of action(s) is no longer in vogue?

Yet, its not consistent.

Casey Anthony walks and someone like Rod Blagojevich, as much as I loathed his political views, gets 14 years hard time in the federal pen for trying to sell one political appointment? Punishments are not consistent.

For a first offense, we should be looking at alternatives to prison for all but the most heinous crimes such as murder.

 

[Lancecastor]

What should be the main purpose of our correctional system?

Is it primarily to deter, to reform, or to wreak vengence on those who commit crimes or are otherwise deemed bad by society?

It seems that rehabilitation is no longer the main purpose of our prison and correctional systems.

It's supposed to be about rehabiltaion, punishment and deterrance.

Prison is supposed to be unpleasant enough to deter others from the temptation to commit crimes.

And of course the prison sentece is public punishment for those who break the rules

And the person is supposed to be rehabilitated so as to prevent future offences when they are released.

To the extent that any of those 3 objectives isn't achieved, the system fails us all.

 

[warrior queen]

The old myth of prison as some sort of happyland. I doubt that's what its like even in Australia, but I guarantee its not that way in most institutions in the US. I've heard even the so-called "country club" prisons are pretty horrible places.

Many years ago, I spent two weeks in one of Australias most notorious womens prisons (the 'why' is irellevent).
I got a cottage on the grounds all to myself, because I had a baby with me.
I also got a couple of other inmates assigned to help me with my daily living while there, to assist with the baby.
I had tv, catered meals, babysitters, a nappy service, counselling, financial planning advice, and no requirement to work.

On release, I had every service available and paid for by the gov't.

Prison was a breeze. I was expecting a LOT worse!

 

[Lancecastor]

Many years ago, I spent two weeks in one of Australias most notorious womens prisons (the 'why' is irellevent).
I got a cottage on the grounds all to myself, because I had a baby with me.
I also got a couple of other inmates assigned to help me with my daily living while there, to assist with the baby.
I had tv, catered meals, babysitters, a nappy service, counselling, financial planning advice, and no requirement to work.

On release, I had every service available and paid for by the gov't.

Prison was a breeze. I was expecting a LOT worse!

quoted for later use.

 

[renard_ruse]

Many years ago, I spent two weeks in one of Australias most notorious womens prisons (the 'why' is irellevent).
I got a cottage on the grounds all to myself, because I had a baby with me.
I also got a couple of other inmates assigned to help me with my daily living while there, to assist with the baby.
I had tv, catered meals, babysitters, a nappy service, counselling, financial planning advice, and no requirement to work.

On release, I had every service available and paid for by the gov't.

Prison was a breeze. I was expecting a LOT worse!

That's Australia and sounds like a minimum security woman's prison.

I was in jail once, and it was not a pleasant place at all. Dirty, no privacy (obviously), the guards were assholes. Interestingly, the other inmates were fairly cool, but that way a day and a half in a county jail. I can only imagine how unthinkably worse prison could be.

 

[warrior queen]

quoted for later use.

You may use this how you want
The fact is, I was supposedly incarcerated in one of the worst womens prisons in Australia.... but the prison authorities themselves decided to place me where they did, and it was because the civil libertarians were actively investigating conditions for inmates.
They were working to bring prisoners rights to the fore in this country, and I got the benefit of that.

I am not in any way ashamed of my time.

 

[Lancecastor]

What were you in for?

 

[warrior queen]

What were you in for?

Does it matter?

 

[renard_ruse]

Anyone can end up going to prison just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being wrongly convicted of whatever. The prison archipelago is big business for those running it, they just need "fresh meat" on a regular basis to keep the racket going.

 

[Lancecastor]

Does it matter?

Not to me, but I'll bet it's a good story.

Anyone can end up going to prison just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being wrongly convicted of whatever. The prison archipelago is big business for those running it, they just need "fresh meat" on a regular basis to keep the racket going.

So what were you in for? Were you wrongfully detained?

 

[warrior queen]

Not to me, but I'll bet it's a good story.

It's..... interesting.
A learning curve in my life, if you will.

I was sentenced to 6 months, served two weeks, and spent a year on probabtion.

 

[Lancecastor]

It's..... interesting.
A learning curve in my life, if you will.

I was sentenced to 6 months, served two weeks, and spent a year on probabtion.

6 months doesn't usually mean anything very serious happened...I was hoping for something jucier.

 

[warrior queen]

6 months doesn't usually mean anything very serious happened...I was hoping for something jucier.

We have a system here that allows judges to sentence within wide perameters.
Had I been a man, I am absolutely certain my sentence would have been much longer.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

either way, i don't care really.