Predators, Players and Bull Shit Artists

[Desdemona]

I submit (pun intended), that there is a difference between these.

How do you differentiate between them?

How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

We have had a fair amount of discussion about the Predators who stalk their prey in and out of cyberspace. For some of us, those predators are easy to recognise. For others, it isn't so easy.

How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

Do your methods vary depending upon the communication medium; i.e. cyber vs phone vs face to face communication?

If you have questions or techniques that have worked for you as you evaluate potential partners, I'd love to learn about them. What subtle clues do you recognise? Many nice people are hurt because they are unable to see through the smoke and mirrors until it is too late.

My employer expects my presence and attention now. I will be back later to join in any conversation that may ensue. Des

 

[lovetoread]

.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I submit (pun intended), that there is a difference between these.

How do you differentiate between them?

How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

We have had a fair amount of discussion about the Predators who stalk their prey in and out of cyberspace. For some of us, those predators are easy to recognise. For others, it isn't so easy.

How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

Do your methods vary depending upon the communication medium; i.e. cyber vs phone vs face to face communication?

If you have questions or techniques that have worked for you as you evaluate potential partners, I'd love to learn about them. What subtle clues do you recognise? Many nice people are hurt because they are unable to see through the smoke and mirrors until it is too late.

My employer expects my presence and attention now. I will be back later to join in any conversation that may ensue. Des

You never take anything for granted.

You read between the lines.

You see where the contradictions are.

You remember what You have seen in past conversations.

If it is online and You suspect this person has created a new ID or persona You watch more closely for their posting style...it may vary but they are comfortable in their own style..it will mirror the old. When You see such common info change such a being 39 as deddi and 46 as samantha You question Yourself as to what else is crap. You must know that one cover up leads to many.

When You see them constantly changing relationships You can also question whats up. Often online it will be the same player playing the same old flame under a new name just to set them up or pull them down. Actually it is more common than You may think in the chat room world.

Yes I know plenty about the chat room world and BDSM players.

It is easy to see a parroter as well....their information is generally spoken word for word from what they have read...It seldom reads consistently as their own style. The words don't flow the same...they have no opinions in most cases but use defence or giggles to change the direction. They are quick to anger rather than communicate..once agin the key word is COMMUNICATION...

I have a head cold that is making Me less than articulate today..and so I think I will give someone else a chance to complete this conversation for the moment

 

[A Desert Rose]

How do you differentiate between them?

How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

Makes you doubt your judgement, doesn't it, pal? I know it does me when I experience it.

There are no easy answers but I think Shadows has provided us with some great ways to spot those who are toying with us.

I will keep thinking, Des.

Rose

 

[~Dream~]

as Shadows said..

I look for the 'parrotters ,people who copy their behaviours as I have been involved wuth FAKE Doms before,they DISGUST me.. users& exploiters ,thats all they were and still are in my eyes..
I search my 'instincts' and rely on "gut feelings' alot ,they havent let me down yet,even when it came to my last relationship it was the "feeling" that it wasnt right that ended it..
Predators WILL be found out , The TRUTH always wins!!
sometimes i use other mediums to help me understand , such as books and I quote from them to help bring out better my "own views" as I find it very hard online to articulate just exactly what I really want to say ,without it being taken 50 different ways ,ya know? and that in itself can be very frustrating indeed..sorry to stray off topic ,Des .. i do find that Master and I communicate more effectively by phone than messenger, you get to "hear " the words AND the "sincerity' behind them.. much love ,Des


Dream

 

[Detton]

How do you differentiate between them?

1. How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

2. How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

3. How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

4. Do your methods vary depending upon the communication medium; i.e. cyber vs phone vs face to face communication?

5. If you have questions or techniques that have worked for you as you evaluate potential partners, I'd love to learn about them. What subtle clues do you recognise? Many nice people are hurt because they are unable to see through the smoke and mirrors until it is too late.

I hope those quotes work...

I've been around for quite a while online, i've been chatting since I was 12 years old nearly, and i've only been suckered a couple of times. It's hard for me to describe how I tell if someone is lying or just leading me on - alot of it has to do with gut instinct, and i'd imagine alot of other people feel that way, too. But i'll try my best. I cut out the parts of the quote to leave just the questions. I numbered them, too, because i'm too lazy right now to put my reply right under them...

1.) Alot of this has to do with spotting inconsistancies. Making sure they dont change their story too much over time. Making sure you ASK them a question that they haven't asked; make them react with something they have to type new themselves. If they constantly ask you questions, and after you reply, keep giving you a "me too" kind of answer, it's a little suspicious. Not completely - i've had days where 'me too' is about the most coherant thing I can type, but it's something to look out for.

2.) This one is harder, because if someone can't admit that this is all they want, it means they believe they want more. It's hard to check for someones "tone" they talk to you in; look for short answers and seeming non-interest outside of the kink. Thats the best I can do, though, there isn't much advice I can give here.

3.) Hard to spot unless you know where they are getting it from, and they are trying to hide the fact that it is a quote. You'll have to compare it to their usual chat style and see if theres a big difference when they start using impressive little words.

4.) They vary, but it's just a little different. You can still check for someones tone, you can just hear it when it's over the phone or face-to-face. I would say theres more stuttering, but that could be general nervousness, if you aren't used to talking. Inconsistancies and answer #1 still hold for the most part.

5.) Those are basically what I look for. So far, I haven't really met anyone dishonest. I also look at how someone types when they first contact me. I'm not a big grammer hound - I have things that annoy me, but I dont make a big deal over it, unless the first thing somebody says is "do u want 2 cyber".

Lastly, my biggest advice, is be careful - but dont be too careful or you'll make the person you're talking to think YOU'RE suspicious. Or at the very least, that you dont trust them.

Hope that helps.

~Detton, professional library troll

 

[Lancecastor]

Good topic, Des.

From the perspective of a man who has met women locally and at distance via the internet on and off for about seven years, I can add some impressions.


* the neat thing about meeting online without pics is that you get to know the personality before you see the vessel;

* the bad thing about meeting online is that surveys show that women tend to lie about their age and weight;( men tend to lie about their marital status and height)

* there are a lot of unhappy people online looking for an escape of one sort or another; this can be harder to discern than in person

* there are female predators, too...generally they seek money

* an elderly woman told me once that if you think you like a woman all you need to do to find out everything important about her is to shut up and listen for the first 15 minutes, because she'll tell you everything in that first 15 minutes.

* most any blunt, firm statement made early on in the emphatic negative tends to turn out to be in fact, a positive statement. (e.g. I don't play games.)

* if they don't like their mom, it's not a good sign

* if she says she's a sub and the next breath is a list of "I won't's"...call her whatever you want....she's trouble. Smile and back away slowly.

 

[Persephone36]

I have to say, head cold or not, Shadowsdream makes wonderful points. Always cogent. (BTW -- Shadowsdream -- how did we catch that from one another.)

Well, I'm not in the most articulate frame of mind myself. But I've met quite a number of people through online contacts. I will pull myself together and make some kind of contribution later on Des.

But I think it's an excellent topic. And really everyone has been contributing points that are interesting and thought provoking.

Or like me, lol -- just impressed with the posts and simply agreeing.

Perse (I shall return!)

 

[Desdemona]

I'm taking notes.

Shadows, even with a headcold, you are quite articulate and I appreciate the common sense and knowledge gained from experience you bring to any topic. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Re: Predators, Players and Bull Shit Artists

Makes you doubt your judgement, doesn't it, pal? I know it does me when I experience it.

There are no easy answers but I think Shadows has provided us with some great ways to spot those who are toying with us.

I will keep thinking, Des.

Rose

Rose, sometimes I do doubt my judgement, but not for long. Keep thinking, pal.

 

[Rubyfruit]

* an elderly woman told me once that if you think you like a woman all you need to do to find out everything important about her is to shut up and listen for the first 15 minutes, because she'll tell you everything in that first 15 minutes.

Have you found this to be true?

 

[Desdemona]

Dream, you are quite correct, the truth alway surfaces at some point.

 

[Desdemona]

Originally posted by Lancecastor
* an elderly woman told me once that if you think you like a woman all you need to do to find out everything important about her is to shut up and listen for the first 15 minutes, because she'll tell you everything in that first 15 minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you found this to be true?

Ruby, thats an interesting question and I look forward to Lance's answer.

Let's take it one step further. If a woman tells you everything in the first 15 minutes, when do you get that sort of overview when talking with a man?

 

[SexyChele]

1. How do you differentiate between them?

2. How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

3. How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

4. How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

5.Do your methods vary depending upon the communication medium; i.e. cyber vs phone vs face to face communication?

6. If you have questions or techniques that have worked for you as you evaluate potential partners, I'd love to learn about them. What subtle clues do you recognise? Many nice people are hurt because they are unable to see through the smoke and mirrors until it is too late.

SD and Detton covered quite a bit quite nicely. Very good advice from both. Having started a search for a Dominant almost 2 months ago, I can add what I have learned.

1. I don't differentiate. A player, a predator, and BSer are all the same lowly scum in my book. They are people to be avoided. (But I think we can all agree on that, right?)

2. Talk, talk, and still more talk. I've discovered that, typically, this type of individual doesn't have time to talk - they simply want to get to a place where they can get off. By insisting on talking for long periods of time, I've discovered they soon lose interest and find another "victim". Also, in skin to skin, I refuse to play right away. I'm not into the casual thing, so I prefer to go out and/or just spend time without doing anything physical. And this can last for weeks and/or months. Again, players do not have this kind of patience and normally will bug out before long.

3. If some one can't be honest with themselves, it is tough to try to convince them otherwise. Some one who is only into it for a little kink normally will not have the full scope or range that some one who has been into the lifestyle for a while will have. It's important for some one (say, a sub) to educate herself through talks with others or reading to find out all s/he can. A Dom/me who has been living the lifestyle for any length of time incorporates it into everything they do. I'm not saying they browbeat people, but they handle themselves in a confident manner - and they do not shy away from answering questions regarding the lifestyle.

4. By questioning them. If some one is merely parroting something they have learned, if I ask them an off the wall question about something they said, they will not know how to respond to me. And, no, I don't base my opinion on the answer to one question. I ask several. As I stated in an earlier post, I normally ask lots of questions up front. This is why I do that.

5. Yes, certainly. I am not looking for a cyber or phone relationship, so I needn't worry about those. But initially, I do meet potential Doms over the internet, and we normally exchange emails before graduating to the phone. If I were looking for a cyber relationship, I would probably be much, much more cautious and less willing to reveal things about myself.

6. If a Dom seems overly eager to play, that is a red flag to me. If he avoids my questions, or tells me I cannot question him, that is a red flag. If he insists on my instant submission from the beginning, that is a red flag. And, yes, there are some slick fellows out there that can easily fool a sub into these things. I've also learned to avoid men who state at the beginning of a conversation, "I am a Dom" or "I am a Master". I've learned most Dominants don't do that. If you ask them how they regard themselves, they will tell you. But they seldom just volunteer that information.

I ask about past relationships. How long has it been since they were in a BDSM relationship? How long did it last? Why did it end? What was the level of committment? This tells me if he is only into the "playing" aspect or if he wants a relationship as well.

I avoid men who are pushy or who have a desire to tell me what to do from day one. I do expect a Dominant to be strong - after I've agreed to the relationship, and we understand what each other wants from the other.

That's about all for now. I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say.

 

[Never]

Rubyfruit:
“Have you found this to be true?”

If I can weigh in here. Yes, many women will tell you everything about them in 15 minutes, though there are quite a few who wont. Then again, most men will tell you everything about them in 15 minutes as well, though there are quite a few that wont.


SexyChele:
"1. I don't differentiate. A player, a predator, and BSer are all the same lowly scum in my book. They are people to be avoided. (But I think we can all agree on that, right?) "

I rarely disagree with you, but I do this time.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Hmmmmm

In my opinion a predator is dangerous to any person who is susceptible to his or her line. Their intention is what differentiates them from a player and a BSer.

Players and BSers generally have benign intentions. They do not mean to cause harm. They may have selfish goals, but the goals may not cause long term physical or psychological harm.

A predator has more malignant intentions. They also may be psychopaths or sociopaths. They may lack a conscience.

Eb

 

[Lancecastor]

In a word, yes.

There is usually a conversation in which a woman tells me everything, I've found.

It is usually in person that the conversation takes place and requires the man to be able to listen in a Venus/Mars way ,to use a pop reference, as women will often say things peripherally that are actually quite important, I find.

Women constantly say that men don't listen. May often reply that their hearing is just fine, they can repeat what you said verbatim, etc.

Ahhh...but much of what a woman will say to a man can be found in the spaces between.

Like the backbeat.

Or code.

Or whatever....The Great Mystery.

But, if a guy reallllly listens....yes, he can hear it and know what it means.

Lance

Have you found this to be true?

 

[Lancecastor]

Sometimes.....

.....the only difference between criminal stalking and romantic pursuit is whether she likes you.

This thread is negative out of the gate.

Like Shadowsdream, I've never been seriously fooled by anyone online.

I've been stung for a few evenings of fine dining with an otherwise superficially beautiful woman or two over the years....but worse things could happen.

I believe that a fool is a fool regardless of the medium.

And I believe that people who are damaged by love and not ready for a relationship are the same regardless of the medium...though there are more wounded birds online than off.

If I started a thread entitled "Psychobitches, Sluts & Lying Tramps", my guess is I'd be getting more than a few posts to such a thread calling me all manner of hateful things.

The things I'm called here every day.

Not all guys are liars cheats and evil bastards.

Cheers;

Lance

 

[lovetoread]

In a word, yes.

There is usually a conversation in which a woman tells me everything, I've found.

It is usually in person that the conversation takes place and requires the man to be able to listen in a Venus/Mars way ,to use a pop reference, as women will often say things peripherally that are actually quite important, I find.

Women constantly say that men don't listen. May often reply that their hearing is just fine, they can repeat what you said verbatim, etc.

Ahhh...but much of what a woman will say to a man can be found in the spaces between.

Like the backbeat.

Or code.

Or whatever....The Great Mystery.

But, if a guy reallllly listens....yes, he can hear it and know what it means.

Lance

When you talk like this,I could dig ya.

The section about them repeating every word is a peeve of mine. It happens. My child did it to me yesterday. He is 9. It must be genetic.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Sometimes.....

.....the only difference between criminal stalking and romantic pursuit is whether she likes you.

This thread is negative out of the gate.

Like Shadowsdream, I've never been seriously fooled by anyone online.

I've been stung for a few evenings of fine dining with an otherwise superficially beautiful woman or two over the years....but worse things could happen.

I believe that a fool is a fool regardless of the medium.

And I believe that people who are damaged by love and not ready for a relationship are the same regardless of the medium...though there are more wounded birds online than off.

If I started a thread entitled "Psychobitches, Sluts & Lying Tramps", my guess is I'd be getting more than a few posts to such a thread calling me all manner of hateful things.

The things I'm called here every day.

Not all guys are liars cheats and evil bastards.

Cheers;

Lance

Predators are not limited to online. That has been established from the beginning. Predators frequent bars, churches, workplaces, grocery stores, gyms, etc.

If any of the women on line feel that anyone person is out to get them, that is one thing, put to tar a person with the brush of "predator" because you do not like what he or she posts on a porn site irresponsible.

Remember folks, you can always use the ignore button. Try it sometime, I do.

Ebony

 

[Desdemona]

Lance, this thread was never intended to be a place for male bashing. You are correct, there are psychobitches, sluts and lying tramps all over the place. I regret that you got the impression that I meant anything other than just a discussion of bullshit artists in general and how to recognize them. I have both male and female friends who have been burned both online and in real life.

 

[Ricckk]

Predators

A warning sign that someone may be a predator is if he has no friends or can't accept people unlike him or herself.

A predator is generally someone posing as a dominant who has no respect for others. This is true online and in person.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Des is right

these people come in all genders, colors and flavors. People who fit the definitions of those types being discussed in this thread, basically have no concern for anyone but themselves and their own gratificaton. I can truthfully say, I have met as many or more women who fit this mold as I have men.

The important thing for me is to try and not make a big emotional investment with someone too soon. Try being the operative word. Sometimes it's hard to control one's heart and emotions.

Some people are pretty planets who draw others into their orbits. Keeping one's distance can be hard but it is the safest thing to do.

Rose

 

[Rubyfruit]

Ahhh...but much of what a woman will say to a man can be found in the spaces between.

Like the backbeat.

Or code.

Or whatever....The Great Mystery.

But, if a guy reallllly listens....yes, he can hear it and know what it means.

Interesting. Know where I can find a man who really listens?

Thanks for replying, Lance.

 

[MsWorthy]

I submit (pun intended), that there is a difference between these.

How do you differentiate between them?

How do you filter through the BS to find someone who genuinely has complementary interests?

I know this is not a fun answer, Des, but time is really the only way to tell for sure. As several people have commented, the truth begins to slip through with time.

We have had a fair amount of discussion about the Predators who stalk their prey in and out of cyberspace. For some of us, those predators are easy to recognise. For others, it isn't so easy.

How do you spot someone who really just wants a little kink but can't even admit to themselves that this is all they really want?

One of the ways I am able to tell if someone is *simply* interested in kinky sex (which is not a bad thing ) is to talk about it (kinky sex) outside of the context of a power exchange. Discuss the good things about kink and some of the downfalls of a PE. Create a discussion/environment that is conducive to kink sans an exchange of power. If people feel accepted they often reveal themselves.

Btw, this does not mean that you prefer kink without a PE, it simply shows that you can see why someone would, so be honest in your discourse.

How do you spot someone who is parroting what they have read or heard just because they think it makes them seem cool?

This one is fairly easy, in my opinion, but it takes time. Read all of the popular d/s sites and notice how they all (most, anyway) say the same things, in the same way. Many of these *beliefs* become *catch phrases* and many people who consider themselves *in the know* use them.

Look for individuality, for someone who doesn't use the same tired phrases but has her/his own way of relating to a bdsm concept. With questioning/discussion someone who is just parroting will usually return to these phrases over and over again, because they haven't thought out (or lived) these concepts. It becomes easy to spot after a while.

Do your methods vary depending upon the communication medium; i.e. cyber vs phone vs face to face communication?

If you have questions or techniques that have worked for you as you evaluate potential partners, I'd love to learn about them. What subtle clues do you recognise? Many nice people are hurt because they are unable to see through the smoke and mirrors until it is too late.

My employer expects my presence and attention now. I will be back later to join in any conversation that may ensue. Des