Polyamory

[nh23]

Evil_Geoff had some amazing posts on another thread about polyamory and I wanted to put the links here for anyone who is interested in reading them. I find them very informative and helpful..as EG always tends to be.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23384403&postcount=15

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23391478&postcount=20

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23403661&postcount=30

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23412991&postcount=60

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23444492&postcount=71

 

[sexycaz22]

NH, thanks for the links. I really admire EG and I enjoyed reading his thoughts on poly.

 

[Etoile]

If anybody wants an example of a long-term unhealthy poly relationship, I'm your girl.

 

[ecstaticsub]

If anybody wants an example of a long-term unhealthy poly relationship, I'm your girl.

I'm curious as to why it is unhealthy and if it is why you stay in it?

 

[twysted73]

*is lurking and very interested in learning what you all have to share...*

Thanx to the posters.

* lurk, stalk, lurk, stalk*

It's been said before, but great topic. I've felt it's something that could be possible for a lot more couples if they would only learn to be a better couple. Solid. Unquestioning honesty, loyalty and love to one another while engaging in a third person between them.

I've also often wondered how many marital problems this solution would ease if both parties could realize that they aren't the type who necessarily fit the marrital dynamic yet seek that security and compfort of someone solid and lasting in their life as they play with a second love.

It's an interesting thought. One I'll be following here. Thanks again.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

I don't have a good answer for this. I guess I have a hard time believing that people actually discuss their personal lives with their family. In my family, we do not.

Part of my family is like this, however, my parents were ALWAYS very open about sex and relationships in our house. This brought me to discuss with my father several weeks ago that I am submissive.

The funny thing is that in sharing with him this aspect of my life, I learned that he is training his own submissive...go figure.

Guess the gene doesn't fall too far from the tree

 

[Etoile]

I'm curious as to why it is unhealthy and if it is why you stay in it?

I call it unhealthy because there's so much pain and drama, STILL. I've been with my wife for 10 years, with C. for 7.5 years, and we've been a triad for...gosh, close to 4 or 5 years? I still have jealousy, I still have problems, I still argue, I still cry a lot. It's not healthy, I don't like it, and I would really like to stop.

So why don't I leave? Because I love my wife. More than anything else. She is the most important thing in the world to me. And she needs it to continue, so...I continue. I don't really get anything out of the poly relationship, but I would never leave her. Ever.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I call it unhealthy because there's so much pain and drama, STILL. I've been with my wife for 10 years, with C. for 7.5 years, and we've been a triad for...gosh, close to 4 or 5 years? I still have jealousy, I still have problems, I still argue, I still cry a lot. It's not healthy, I don't like it, and I would really like to stop.

So why don't I leave? Because I love my wife. More than anything else. She is the most important thing in the world to me. And she needs it to continue, so...I continue. I don't really get anything out of the poly relationship, but I would never leave her. Ever.

Thank you. I understand continuing with something that is not what you would want because of love.

 

[nh23]

NH, thanks for the links. I really admire EG and I enjoyed reading his thoughts on poly.

No problem. I think they will be very helpful.

 

[Netzach]

There's pain and drama with my Bull. I'm very careful about where I vent about it. I do not use M as my primary venting there - I can't imagine that would feel very good. I think it's important to think about where and how you blow off steam when things are not rosy - that's what therapy is for sometimes.

 

[nh23]

* lurk, stalk, lurk, stalk*

It's been said before, but great topic. I've felt it's something that could be possible for a lot more couples if they would only learn to be a better couple. Solid. Unquestioning honesty, loyalty and love to one another while engaging in a third person between them.

I've also often wondered how many marital problems this solution would ease if both parties could realize that they aren't the type who necessarily fit the marrital dynamic yet seek that security and compfort of someone solid and lasting in their life as they play with a second love.

It's an interesting thought. One I'll be following here. Thanks again.

I wonder that too..about marital problems being solved that is. Some people are just wired for polyamory and don't know enough about it, or that it's even an option.

 

[Netzach]

My personal reason for getting married was a desire to redefine what that can mean or should mean, so I don't feel like I'm failing or doing anything weird. If I were in a hetero monogamous boilerplate kind of relationship (which I know from experience will never work for me) I don't think I'd have any interest in being married. I really feel like, for me, it's about a degree of trailblazing, as queer people, who insist to some degree to be counted and to exist and to sneak under the current radar and literally *fuck up* what people think of when they think of marriage. Fuck up our *own* status quo and see what we can create. I don't care who sees my bull come into the house, I don't care what people think when we're all out for lunch, I don't offer apologetic explanations when there are three men in the hospital beyond "I want him here, I want him here, he's welcome in any time at all." I want people to be confused by this very short, slightly doughy, plain and non-slutty woman who seems to be fucking different people and being rather bold about it. I don't care if people really gawk at me and if men are totally confused by me when M and I sit down on his third date with a guy and I explain, no really, it's FINE if you two trick at the house, just let me know what time I should be out so you can be alone. That's fine by me, I'm not holding up a sign, but I'm not hiding anything either.

This is the future of marriage, I hope - that it can be what people want it to be and hopefully in a reasonable timeframe we will catch up with the rest of the civilized world and genitals aren't that important when you want to make a contract with someone else. I'd be spending every night I can with him for the rest of my life with or without papers.

As for what would the children think, well it's not an issue for me. H is the only one with kids, and they're adult and they'll meet me if/when it makes sense, they really don't care as long as he's happy. He's told them he's involved with a couple in Minneapolis (they know he's bi and an x dresser) and they're basically of the mind of "weird, but if it works for you, let's not discuss it in more detail."

 

[nh23]

I call it unhealthy because there's so much pain and drama, STILL. I've been with my wife for 10 years, with C. for 7.5 years, and we've been a triad for...gosh, close to 4 or 5 years? I still have jealousy, I still have problems, I still argue, I still cry a lot. It's not healthy, I don't like it, and I would really like to stop.

So why don't I leave? Because I love my wife. More than anything else. She is the most important thing in the world to me. And she needs it to continue, so...I continue. I don't really get anything out of the poly relationship, but I would never leave her. Ever.

Oh Etoile, I'm really sorry to read this. I feel for you, I really do. I can't imagine being part of something that I didn't feel like was the right thing for me. If people ask me for advice I always stress how important it is for all parties to actually want to be in a poly relationship. You must love your wife very much..*hugs*

 

[nh23]

There's pain and drama with my Bull. I'm very careful about where I vent about it. I do not use M as my primary venting there - I can't imagine that would feel very good. I think it's important to think about where and how you blow off steam when things are not rosy - that's what therapy is for sometimes.

*nods* I think there is probably pain and drama in every relationship..and you're right venting in the right place and to the right people is very important. Great advice Netach..Thank You

 

[nh23]

Topic for discussion that I would like to get thoughts from other posters on. I'm in a D/s relationship with D. I'm a wife to my husband. I have never been in a M/s relationship so I have no experience in a M/s dynamic. Two questions.

1. How do you feel about a Master who is polyamorous, and has other pyl's, but does not allow his slave to have other partners? Is this the norm, or is it abnormal. Does it work in the relationships you've seen, if so how is it managed?

My opinion on that may not be at all popular..but here it is. I have a huge belief that being in a poly relationship should be for all partners. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I believe the slave should have the option to have other partners if she want's them. In my mind if one partner doesn't have the option of having other partners it's not really a polyamorous relationship. (just my opinion) I'd like to see how others see this.

2. Let's say we have a couple already established in a M/s monogamous relationship, The Master decides that he would like to open the relationship to polyamory. The slave is not wired for polyamory. How does a Master handle this? Does he say Put up, or get out. Are the slaves feelings taken into consideration? In a D/s or even vanilla relationship I would say that if one partner is opposed not to do it...it's never going to work. All parties have to be happy with it or resentment will be a factor for sure. It's never a good idea to push someone who isn't wired for polyamory into it..but in a M/s relationship..I have no idea how this should be handled, and I'm curious.

 

[Netzach]

Topic for discussion that I would like to get thoughts from other posters on. I'm in a D/s relationship with D. I'm a wife to my husband. I have never been in a M/s relationship so I have no experience in a M/s dynamic. Two questions.

1. How do you feel about a Master who is polyamorous, and has other pyl's, but does not allow his slave to have other partners? Is this the norm, or is it abnormal. Does it work in the relationships you've seen, if so how is it managed?

I've seen it work, I've seen it not work. I wouldn't say it's a norm, nor abnormal.

My opinion on that may not be at all popular..but here it is. I have a huge belief that being in a poly relationship should be for all partners. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I believe the slave should have the option to have other partners if she want's them. In my mind if one partner doesn't have the option of having other partners it's not really a polyamorous relationship. (just my opinion) I'd like to see how others see this.

I think it's *wise* to acknowledge your slave's nature, and personally I'm enough of a voyeur and enough into other people who are poly and their poly-ness. But I'm also into control when it comes to M/s. I could and *would* decide arbitrarily that H is not allowed to fuck anyone else nor even masturbate without my go ahead, and I could and would also tell him "go try to get laid tonight, don't care how." M/s means that it's not an issue of fairness, it's an issue of 1. what amuses and pleases me at a given time and 2. what I think works, what I think he may *need* at a given time, which may not coincide with his wants.

2. Let's say we have a couple already established in a M/s monogamous relationship, The Master decides that he would like to open the relationship to polyamory. The slave is not wired for polyamory. How does a Master handle this? Does he say Put up, or get out. Are the slaves feelings taken into consideration? In a D/s or even vanilla relationship I would say that if one partner is opposed not to do it...it's never going to work. All parties have to be happy with it or resentment will be a factor for sure. It's never a good idea to push someone who isn't wired for polyamory into it..but in a M/s relationship..I have no idea how this should be handled, and I'm curious.

Really depends on the person. I would point back to the slavery/property part of the agreement. To me, personally, anything that limits my prerogative is simply not acceptable in M/s. How's that for an unpopular opinion?

I wouldn't expect them to love it, humans aren't machines, but I would not accept them never getting used to it, or using their dislike to manipulate me. If it's impossible to accept, I'm not the owner for them.

I'd respect their dislike, much as I would respect the dislike surrounding anything else, but that would be the end of it, I would not NOT do something important to me because my property isn't ovejoyed about it. I wouldn't go out of my way to do it either purely because they hate it. That's how I am about most things.

I'd acknowledge that it wasn't a walk in the park, but it would remain a non-negotiable "tough shit."

 

[Etoile]

I mentioned in a different thread recently that I believe polyamory goes deeper than kink. If a Master wants to force polyamory onto their slave, that is their right, but I think it can cause psychological damage. I think it can create a situation where the slave becomes resentful of other partners, resentful of the Master, jealous, distrustful, and most of all...unhappy.

I don't think you can force polyamory on anyone. They either are okay with it, or they're not. I think the decision to enter polyamory should be a joint one, made by both partners, with the option for either to leave the relationship if they are not happy with the decision to go poly (or remain monogamous).

 

[Etoile]

Oh Etoile, I'm really sorry to read this. I feel for you, I really do. I can't imagine being part of something that I didn't feel like was the right thing for me. If people ask me for advice I always stress how important it is for all parties to actually want to be in a poly relationship. You must love your wife very much..*hugs*

It's hard, that's for sure. It used to be a happy triad, but I just don't know if it can be salvaged now. We've been trying to patch things up for longer than we've been happy. My relationship with my wife is wonderful but it's colored by C. being the third. If I could, I'd be monogamous with my wife, but since I can't, I'm just trying to get by. And thank you. I have enough experience with polyamory to know that my situation isn't healthy, but it's the situation I'm in. I still support others I know who have questions about poly, so I'm happy to offer my thoughts to others on this thread. I actually do know a lot about this and how to do it right...I just don't practice what I preach.

 

[nh23]

Thank You Netzach. I understand what you're saying. In a M/s relationship the slave gives up all rights..In a D/s relationship the sub can come into the relationship saying poly is a hard limit for me..I guess in a M/s relationship if the Master acknowledges the fact that the slave isn't wired for poly and still chooses to be polyamorous, the only option the slave has is to try to learn to deal with it, or leave. I would imagine the Master would have to weigh in their mind which they wanted more..to be poly or take the chance the slave couldn't accept it and leave. I don't imagine that would be an easy choice. Myself for example I'm just don't think I'm wired to be with one partner forever and always. It would be hard for me to be kept in that small box. On the other hand if I loved my partner very deeply I wouldn't want to risk loosing them..Yeah tough decision..

 

[nh23]

I mentioned in a different thread recently that I believe polyamory goes deeper than kink. If a Master wants to force polyamory onto their slave, that is their right, but I think it can cause psychological damage. I think it can create a situation where the slave becomes resentful of other partners, resentful of the Master, jealous, distrustful, and most of all...unhappy.

I don't think you can force polyamory on anyone. They either are okay with it, or they're not. I think the decision to enter polyamory should be a joint one, made by both partners, with the option for either to leave the relationship if they are not happy with the decision to go poly (or remain monogamous).

*nods* This explains perfectly how I feel also.

 

[nh23]

It's hard, that's for sure. It used to be a happy triad, but I just don't know if it can be salvaged now. We've been trying to patch things up for longer than we've been happy. My relationship with my wife is wonderful but it's colored by C. being the third. If I could, I'd be monogamous with my wife, but since I can't, I'm just trying to get by. And thank you. I have enough experience with polyamory to know that my situation isn't healthy, but it's the situation I'm in. I still support others I know who have questions about poly, so I'm happy to offer my thoughts to others on this thread. I actually do know a lot about this and how to do it right...I just don't practice what I preach.

Lol Life doesn't always give us the option to practice what we preach. It's understandable. Thank You for giving your opinions and helping others That's why I wanted to start this thread. I appreciate your input very much.

 

[rida]

........
This is the future of marriage, I hope - that it can be what people want it to be and hopefully in a reasonable timeframe we will catch up with the rest of the civilized world and genitals aren't that important when you want to make a contract with someone else. I'd be spending every night I can with him for the rest of my life with or without papers.
......

Wouldn't that be great? that people could express their love, their commitments the way it suits the people involved?

Afterall marriage as a legal contract, is just a contract to define legal rights and duties of the people involved. So why it has to be an issue if the two parties are of the same sex, or there are more than 2 parties involved?
And as for the emotional meaning of it, what should it matter if the people involved are all committed to each other, ready to love & cherish each other in which ever shape and flavor fit their needs?

I confess thou to being much more coward than Netzach and cannot see myself being that open if I had an established relationship beside Hubby. Mostly not because I care of what people think of myself, but for the consequences to other people in my life.

 

[EmpressFi]

Although I call him "Master", we're not really in a M/s relationship but a D/s one, so I guess I shouldnt really chime in.

Right now, him being poly too isnt an issue. It is an understanding we made early because he was semi-dating someone when he and I got together. And I did have jealousy issues... BIG ones.. (hence the assignment of reading The Ethical Slut and writing a report on the chapter dealing with jealousy). However, after meeting me, he decided that as difficult as it is to only have me while I have Malin, that's what he wants. He doesnt want anyone else right now.

However, if someone comes along that he wants to date... then he is free to do so and they'd have to accept that I'm his primary person.

 

[serijules]

Topic for discussion that I would like to get thoughts from other posters on. I'm in a D/s relationship with D. I'm a wife to my husband. I have never been in a M/s relationship so I have no experience in a M/s dynamic. Two questions.

1. How do you feel about a Master who is polyamorous, and has other pyl's, but does not allow his slave to have other partners? Is this the norm, or is it abnormal. Does it work in the relationships you've seen, if so how is it managed?

My opinion on that may not be at all popular..but here it is. I have a huge belief that being in a poly relationship should be for all partners. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I believe the slave should have the option to have other partners if she want's them. In my mind if one partner doesn't have the option of having other partners it's not really a polyamorous relationship. (just my opinion) I'd like to see how others see this.

And my answer may not be popular, but here goes....

What's good for the goose is good for the gander is great for a romantic relationship. In my opinion, there isn't much place for it in a M/s one.

To answer the first question....one thing that very few people seem to really see is that "relationship" doesn't always mean romantic. My owner is not my significant other. We love each other dearly, our lives are very much lived together. We do sexual things together in a D/s fashion....but this doesn't mean our relationship needs to be equal for it to be stable. Equality is good and fine and all...but in my opinion, it's for the vanillas.

My Ma'am has other partners and relationships. She has two other subs, a maid and various casual play partners. She's dated. I am single, but I am HERS....and I am not allowed to have relationships with other people without her prior approval. Sometimes this is hard because I long to have that romantic relationship with another woman, but I belong to Dawnie and I'm *HAPPY*. If the opportunity to be with another woman on the level I desire comes up, she will certainly hear me out, but she decides how I spend my time and where my attention is focused. That is the "M/s" part of our relationship working. M/s on the level we live it comes with some sacrifices, and giving up things you desire does not always lead to unhappiness, instability and resentment.

My relationship is most certainly a poly one, even if I myself am not poly. I still live in a poly situation where all the hardships and benefits and whatnot of poly exist. My having no desire for other partners in my life doesn't make the other partners in Ma'ams life any less of something I have to deal with. So I disagree that in order to be in a poly relationship, all persons need to be poly and have equal 'rights'. Perhaps this is so for a vanilla type marriage poly relationship, but add the dynamics of D/s and I think the situations are a lot more flexible.

Being a poly person and being in a poly relationship are different things. I am not poly, but I'm in a poly relationship. It does work...it has for almost 4 years with no sign of stopping. Abnormal? Perhaps...but then again, I have yet to see anyone with the ability or power to define normal anyhow.

As for the expression of not understanding how people can manage time in a poly relationship when there are two "main" people....people do it every day. They share their time with kids, close friends, family, spouses...all to different degrees, but it's done, and easily so. Why is it so hard to understand how a person is capable of balancing time between two or more people they love?

Poly relationships don't usually HAVE a "main". Saying family comes first does not mean the spouse is necessarily the main...just that lines have been drawn that work the best for all involved.

The love that exists between the various people involved is all separate. Those of you that have a hard time understanding this, it is likely because you are trying to shove square blocks into round holes. Ma'am likens it to me and my pets....I have 2 dogs that I love very much. Does my having two pets mean my love for the other is lessened, or that I have less quality time with them, or that anything in their lives is neglected?

How about people with children? By the idea that love and quality attention can really only be fulfilling and fair and whatnot with one other person, most parents in the world must be neglectful and their relationships with their children unstable or whatever descriptive word you want to use, because there is more than one child. I'm sure most parents would cry bullshit at that idea because it's really not that complicated of a notion to be able to very much love, care for, spend time with, know and have fulfilling, stable relationships with more than a single individual.

Everyone makes a few sacrifices so that all involved have needs met. Some people are not capable of having anything less than "all"...and obviously poly is not for them. Some are better at balancing this, and poly works well for them.

People often fall back onto the "communication is vital" when trying to explain how poly works. I agree with this, but I want to point out that communication is vital in ANY relationship. What makes poly work, really work, is very simple...the desire for it to work by those involved. This means doing what needs to be done so everyone is happy and secure. Problems come up, sure. People fight, get jealous, have difficulties....but if all involved are committed to making the relationship work, they will do what needs to be done, or they will walk away and say "hey, this doesn't work for me".

The workability of poly isn't measured by the amount of time or love two particular people involved have together....it's measured in the commitment, respect, maturity and determination present. Ma'am and I have much less time together than others she has relationships with...but our relationship is no less special, valid or strong for it, because we both are determined to make it work and respect that everything isn't always picture perfect, and that is OKAY. To debate the measure of "love" is just ridiculous to me, so I won't even address that idea further.

This post is in reply to the thread in general, btw, I'm not picking on the original poster, just started off answering her questions as posed.

 

[Etoile]

seri