Poly + LDR = our crazy whirlwind

[Homburg]

There is no need to get so defensive H, and by doing so it actually raises concerns where I had none previously because apart from the need on your part to tell people who cite it as a possible problem in the future to get over it, you also keep validating anything which may happen by mentioning your childhood and how you feel you have turned out all right. That is your view and your entitled to it, but one of the biggest mistakes parents make...single, divorced, poly, abusers, drug takers, alcoholics, average suburbia, married make is thinking just because something was OK with them, it will be OK with and for their own children.

I am not subjecting my children to cross-country and international moves every few years. I am not getting deployed to warzones where I might get killed or maimed. I mentioned my childhood as an example of the things I went through that did not destroy me. I offered myself as an example of the resilience of childhood.

My parents did not do the things I do, and while my father was absent, he was gone far more often than I am. So I am patently not saying that the things that were okay for me will be okay for my kids. I am saying that they are not hothouse flowers, much as I was not.

And, honestly, if you are going to advise me to not get defensive, it helps if you are not getting defensive as well.

*snip*
On another note, I for one didnt expect you to be doing poly things in front of them in a sexual senses, but it is and already has impacted on them whether you want to see it or not. While you are visiting MIS, you are not with them as a family and I expect you usually are....that is a huge change for them to adjust to. You not being home on mother's day may also have impacted and set of concerns for them if it has traditionally been a family day for you all. And I for one never questioned your or your children's hospitality and find it quite offensive for you te accuse anyone of that unless they have specifically told you so. You visiting MIS while viv remains home with the children has nothing to do with whether you are hospitable to others...it has to do with whether your sex life (and yes, I can be blunt too when it is thrown at me) is impacting on your children and your need to follow your desires blinds you to what might be going on in their impressionable minds. You underate children and their intelligence...they pick up on more than what is put before their eyes. You choose parenthood, you can't turn it on and off at whim or pretend all you want is good and fitting with your children's wants or be damned. Being a responsible parent also is not about forcing your values and choices onto your children an expecting them to accept and like them.

Actually, my work requires me to take occassional trips, as do some of my hobbies. No big change for them to adjust to.

My kids are used to me not being home on occassion. And Mother's Day? Well, the older two were in Disney with their grandparents the whole weekend, and the little ones are too young to know what Mother's Day is. Because the older ones were going to be gone, we celebrated Mother's Day a week early. I was not about to go off for the weekend on Mother's Day had the situation not been what it was, and had Mother's Day not already been wrecked by the grandparent's decision to take the older ones to Disney that weekend.

As to hospitality, it was mentioned to explain why the kids would be unsurprised to see someone staying with us when MIS visits. It had nothing to do with anything else. I did not accuse anyone of making comment about my hospitality. I mentioned it to explain that my kids are used to seeing people stay with us on occassion. I thought that was fairly clear.

For all your sakes I hope it works well, and your children don't suffer, but if you bury your head in the sand and blast anyone who mentions it as a concern (as I did where MIS's parents are concerned) I don't feel you are interested in letting it get in your way and basically put them on the list of peopel who need to get over it if they have issues with it.

Catalina

*blink*

Pardon me? I thought I made it apparent with that post that I've been thinking about these issues. I thought it was clear that I'd examined them. Where do you get the idea that I'm burying my head in the sand?

I'm also not sure where you get the idea that I was "blasting" you. I said "get a grip". That's "blasting"?

There is a LOT of assumption going on here. The most insulting assumption is that I've not thought this through. That I'm somehow not examining the situation simply because I've not come to the same decision that you or anyone else might come to. I've spents a stupefying amount of time thinking about this, talking about it with viv, talking about it with MIS, talking about it with trustworthy friends in the scene, talking about it with friends here on Lit. You don't like it. I get that. One other person has said similarly, and for the same overall reasons.

I may not have come to the same conclusion you did, but don't assume that I am mindlessly following my dick down a merry path of self-destruction. I have agonised over this, and worried as to whether or not I can make it work. You do not know me well enough to assume that I am acting in this manner, and I would thank you to not pass judgement on me simply because I did not make the same choices you would have.

 

[Netzach]

The families I see with the most problems are often those in which the children get equal votes in what should happen in life as their caretakers.

I say this as someone who pretty much lived that lifestyle. Authority and "this is what we're doing" IS good. Who Daddy sticks his dick in isn't UP for vote. Who mommy marries isn't up for discussion.

My six year old self thinking my mother was dating an asshole should be considered as a possible yardstick, much like if your dog snarls at the guy incessantly, maybe he's just no good. She told me she broke up with a guy because she didn't like that he would bait me into annoyance as a kid. Had he had more redeeming qualities, she probably would have discussed it rather than bailing.

But it should not be "well what do you think honey" hour when deciding what to do next. As an adult child, I weighed in when I thought she was dating another asshole, and she chose not to listen. That's her right, just like it's mine not to listen to her.

 

[Millificent]

*sigh*

this thread was started to support poly relationships, not to decide if we made the right decision or not.

 

[Homburg]

The families I see with the most problems are often those in which the children get equal votes in what should happen in life as their caretakers.

I say this as someone who pretty much lived that lifestyle. Authority and "this is what we're doing" IS good. Who Daddy sticks his dick in isn't UP for vote. Who mommy marries isn't up for discussion.

My six year old self thinking my mother was dating an asshole should be considered as a possible yardstick, much like if your dog snarls at the guy incessantly, maybe he's just no good. She told me she broke up with a guy because she didn't like that he would bait me into annoyance as a kid. Had he had more redeeming qualities, she probably would have discussed it rather than bailing.

But it should not be "well what do you think honey" hour when deciding what to do next. As an adult child, I weighed in when I thought she was dating another asshole, and she chose not to listen. That's her right, just like it's mine not to listen to her.

Eactly.

The younger sister of a good friend of mine produced offspring many years ago. She decided that it was damaging for the child to hear "no", so she removed "no" from her vocabulary. I have never in my life seen a more willful, obnoxious, disruptive, broken, and horrid child.

Honestly, my children are very much my property at this stage. The oldest will be eight shortly. She is not of an age where her decisions and opinions of anything going on carry much weight. A constant diet of sweets, no bedtime, homework going ignored, etc would be the result of heeding her choices. viv and I are the adults. We are the decision makers. Not the children.

To go back to my own childhood, I wasn't consulted when we moved. Neither was my dad, but I sure as hell wasn't. We moved. Would I have agreed to them? Fuck no. There were places we left that wrecked me to leave. Sorry, no choice, Dom Uncle Sam says carry your ass. Whatever, I learned to deal.

I am not one of those people whose life ended when we had children. I did not somehow decide that the rest of my life was going to be solely devoted to doing only what was best for my kids with no thought for myself, viv, or anyone else. Fuck that. My decisions may not be perfect, but I'm pretty damned sure that my kids are happier with a cheerful Papa that is gone maybe one weekend in a month than they would be a grumpy old bear, and if that requires me to balance and juggle a bit, so be it.

Misery is NOT a virtue.

 

[Homburg]

*sigh*

this thread was started to support poly relationships, not to decide if we made the right decision or not.

Poly threads fire some people up

 

[rida]

I might be naive, but I believe that what children need is a loving enviroment. Wheter it is the standard hetero couple, wheter is a same sex couple, wheter is a single parent, wheter is a more complicated family structure it should not matter.



To viv: Don't get demorilized. Comments here are not meant to bash your decision. It can be hard to hear not totally supporting voices, expecially since I know you are all thinking it out very carefully. You know it is not going to be easy, but keep faith that it can be done.

 

[sexycaz22]

I might be naive, but I believe that what children need is a loving enviroment. Wheter it is the standard hetero couple, wheter is a same sex couple, wheter is a single parent, wheter is a more complicated family structure it should not matter.


To viv: Don't get demorilized. Comments here are not meant to bash your decision. It can be hard to hear not totally supporting voices, expecially since I know you are all thinking it out very carefully. You know it is not going to be easy, but keep faith that it can be done.

I fully agree with what rida says. esp. the bolded statement.

Like Homburg's childhood, my dad was absent most of the time, and as far as I know, my brother & sister and I turned out well. And this is because we were in a loving environmentby our mother and her boyfriend (at the time, now husband).

{{{hugs}}}

 

[ecstaticsub]

Homburg--this is sort of off topic but as a military spouse who has moved more than my fair share of times and moved my children and who has had a husband deployed a few times to war zones--I take offense at you saying leaving your children and wife to spend a weekend with MIS is the same as a man leaving his family to be deployed or having to move. Children can "suck it up" and deal with moves and deployments because they know their father has no choice. It is different when a father makes a choice to leave them for the weekend.

I in no way shape or form am saying that your visits are wrong (I leave my kids and family occasionally to see Daddy-but I don't tell them the truth, it's not their business) It simply is a different thing situation than when a parent does something not by choice.

I seems to me that the three of you have given much thought and consideration to the problems that may come up. I sincerely wish you well. Poly and LDR can and does work.

I am curious--if you don't mind answering--is MIS being introduced to your children as a friend or as a potential part of the family?

 

[Millificent]

To clear up: when he goes away, the children *do not* know that he has gone to visit MIS. Frequently only the youngest is home on the weekend anyway.

 

[ecstaticsub]

To clear up: when he goes away, the children *do not* know that he has gone to visit MIS. Frequently only the youngest is home on the weekend anyway.

Wise choice. I'm sorry if I assumed prematurely.

 

[Homburg]

Homburg--this is sort of off topic but as a military spouse who has moved more than my fair share of times and moved my children and who has had a husband deployed a few times to war zones--I take offense at you saying leaving your children and wife to spend a weekend with MIS is the same as a man leaving his family to be deployed or having to move. Children can "suck it up" and deal with moves and deployments because they know their father has no choice. It is different when a father makes a choice to leave them for the weekend.

I in no way shape or form am saying that your visits are wrong (I leave my kids and family occasionally to see Daddy-but I don't tell them the truth, it's not their business) It simply is a different thing situation than when a parent does something not by choice.

I was NOT saying it was the same. I tried to make it clear that my dad was absent MORE than I am, and made clear that I was NOT doing what he did.

Honest question - am I being obtuse? I thought I was being crystal clear, and was trying to offer a purposefully MORE extreme example of the same overall issue of dad being absent and not having as much time to spend with the kids. The intent was to show that parents can be gone here and there without the kids turning out to be broken. That's all.

By the way, you, as a military spouse, stepped into the life. I was born into it. I recognise that it is harder for you, or at least it was for my mom. I didn't know any better.

The hardest job in the military = spouse

I seems to me that the three of you have given much thought and consideration to the problems that may come up. I sincerely wish you well. Poly and LDR can and does work.

I am curious--if you don't mind answering--is MIS being introduced to your children as a friend or as a potential part of the family?

Thank you.

She will be introduced as a friend. As time goes on, and the kids get old enough, that may well change. What are your plans on that front? From what I recall, your kids a bit older than ours. Are you ever going to explain it to them?

 

[ecstaticsub]

I was NOT saying it was the same. I tried to make it clear that my dad was absent MORE than I am, and made clear that I was NOT doing what he did.

Honest question - am I being obtuse? I thought I was being crystal clear, and was trying to offer a purposefully MORE extreme example of the same overall issue of dad being absent and not having as much time to spend with the kids. The intent was to show that parents can be gone here and there without the kids turning out to be broken. That's all.

By the way, you, as a military spouse, stepped into the life. I was born into it. I recognise that it is harder for you, or at least it was for my mom. I didn't know any better.

The hardest job in the military = spouse


Thank you.

She will be introduced as a friend. As time goes on, and the kids get old enough, that may well change. What are your plans on that front? From what I recall, your kids a bit older than ours. Are you ever going to explain it to them?

To be honest, you sound a little bitter about being a military kid. I know it's not easy. But you made it sound that since you were able to put up with being a military kid then your children could put up with absenses. But a father not being around for work related issues is so different than if the children knew you were off seeing MIS. Children will always be very protective of their Mom. Like I said, just something that struck me reading what youwere saying.

For me, my children will never know. I keep that part of my life totally separate. That was one of my husbands demands from the very beginning. And both Daddy and I agree. Maybe someday when I am 65 and Daddy is 75 he and his wife can move in with us and we can be a big happy family, but not now. I want my children to know without any doubt that their parents are in a happy secure marriage.

This isn't to say that your children don't know this. But I think as time goes on and if MIS goes from being a friend to part of the family you will need to make sure the kids are secure in your love for viv.

 

[Homburg]

To be honest, you sound a little bitter about being a military kid. I know it's not easy. But you made it sound that since you were able to put up with being a military kid then your children could put up with absenses. But a father not being around for work related issues is so different than if the children knew you were off seeing MIS. Children will always be very protective of their Mom. Like I said, just something that struck me reading what youwere saying.

Oh, geeze, no. I didn't know any better. Heck, I thought it was cool more often than not. Yeah, the moving sucked, and losing friends all the time was tough to deal with, but I made the conscious decision at a young age to look at th bright side. How many kids my age could say they travelled around Europe without their parents? Or went spelunking in Austria? Or kayaking in the Med, or camping in Italy, or rappelling with Army Rangers, or playing around in Apache helo training simulators, or any of the hundreds of neat things I got to do as a kid?

Sure, there were downsides. I'll never really understand family, or friends, the same way other people do. And I have no roots. Whatever. I also lack the bitterness many people have at being stuck somewhere, and my lack of deep connection with my extended family has meant that I am very easily capable of turning my back on some of the honestly poisonous folks that I am realted to. I consider this a plus.

For me, my children will never know. I keep that part of my life totally separate. That was one of my husbands demands from the very beginning. And both Daddy and I agree. Maybe someday when I am 65 and Daddy is 75 he and his wife can move in with us and we can be a big happy family, but not now. I want my children to know without any doubt that their parents are in a happy secure marriage.

This isn't to say that your children don't know this. But I think as time goes on and if MIS goes from being a friend to part of the family you will need to make sure the kids are secure in your love for viv.

I agree. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Netzach]

I'm almost a little sad about your resoluteness, ecstatic, not that it's my business. But as a fairly young person kinked as a garden hose in February, it would THRILL me to find out my mother had perversions too of her own, and not only after Dad died and I was home for my grandpa's funeral and I was 31. I mean if your kids wind up not being totally straight arrow and as quiet as you are about it, it could be a kind of missed opportunity to realize your abnormal is ok.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I'm almost a little sad about your resoluteness, ecstatic, not that it's my business. But as a fairly young person kinked as a garden hose in February, it would THRILL me to find out my mother had perversions too of her own, and not only after Dad died and I was home for my grandpa's funeral and I was 31. I mean if your kids wind up not being totally straight arrow and as quiet as you are about it, it could be a kind of missed opportunity to realize your abnormal is ok.

I'm certainly not quiet. My daughter is a young teen and knows that I am kinky and that I absolutely LOVE sex. Since she has been questioning her own sexual preferences lately we have had many very indepth discussions. She knows I have had bi experiences etc. However, I don't think it is any of her or my son's business to know the details of how their father and I decide to live that part of our life.

Also since my husband is still active duty I really don't think it is in their best interest to know that I have been with another man while their father is deployed. My job as a mom is to keep them grounded and secure.

Thanks for your viewpoint, though. Maybe I will tell them someday.

 

[Netzach]

I'm certainly not quiet. My daughter is a young teen and knows that I am kinky and that I absolutely LOVE sex. Since she has been questioning her own sexual preferences lately we have had many very indepth discussions. She knows I have had bi experiences etc. However, I don't think it is any of her or my son's business to know the details of how their father and I decide to live that part of our life.

Also since my husband is still active duty I really don't think it is in their best interest to know that I have been with another man while their father is deployed. My job as a mom is to keep them grounded and secure.

Thanks for your viewpoint, though. Maybe I will tell them someday.

No, that makes sense, and serious duh, I forgot you were military though it was staring me in the face. That would not be that helpful. And it's definitely not a details discussion, really. You're working things a certain way, which is more akin to how I'd be doing it. What Homburg viv and mis are doing is another way of going at it.

 

[kinky_meh]

You know i am NOT poly at all and i will skip that as i have a big respect for what you 3 trying to do. I am a bit skeptic on the matter for "how long" can something like this work? but its none of my business.

I just wanted ask.. MIS is a youg woman and i bet she will want kids, one day, right?? When you 3 plan to live together, i supose Homburg would be their dad and thats FINE. I am just thinking what your kids will think about it then? I mean, if my parents was in something like this, i would feel uhm i dunno how to say it, i would feel just VERY BAD, about knowing my dad who lives with my mum and look like everything is fucking okay, is having a child with someone else, too. You know what i mean??

I am not trying to judge or offend you here, i am really not. It just came to mind and i was thinking how hard all this can become for you one day...

Its no secret I AM AGAINST poly yup. I am jelaous fuck, i know i am, i could never ever do this. I might do this to please my Master, but i would suffer like a dog, inside. I was thinking about viv many many times lately and about how shes really feeling about this. I think we sub's often do things "just" to please our Master... What i am saying is, have viv ever told you shes dreaming about sharing you with another woman Homburg?? I am asking cuz i dunno much woman who dream about it lol. I dunno any actualy. What you do is your thing, i am just trying to say you should be 150% sure that you wont hurt your wife badly with time, as i feel you would hate to do that...

Just my 2 cents.

Anyways, fingers crossed for you 3. I hope everything will work out as you wish.

 

[BiBunny]

Why does every thread about poly have to turn into a judgmental bitch-fest? You don't see the poly folks running into a thread where somebody talks about how she couldn't imagine sharing her man with another woman and criticizing. For fuck's sake, could you people please give us the same courtesy? Kthanxbi.

And FWIW, my father is a long-distance truck driver. He wanted to be at home, but he usually had to be gone for at least a week at a time to make money. I missed my Daddy, but I dealt with it. Children are resilient. If I turned out decently only seeing my father a couple of days a week, then H and viv's kids will be fine if H isn't right there 24/7.

And is it such a stretch to imagine that MIS might not even *want* children? I'm not saying she does or she doesn't. I'm not in her head. But why do we always assume that that's what women want? Not all of us do, you know.

 

[Netzach]

Maybe she doesn't want babies any time soon.

Maybe she's operating on the realistic expectation that this may be an important though not necessarily lifelong relationship (at her age, very realistic)

Maybe they'll work out whatever needs working out at that juncture

Maybe the network would expand and include a secondary male partner or something

there are so many possibilities

 

[kinky_meh]

Why does every thread about poly have to turn into a judgmental cunt-fest? You don't see the poly folks running into a thread where somebody talks about how she couldn't imagine sharing her man with another woman and criticizing. For fuck's sake, could you people please give us the same courtesy? Kthanxbi.

I am not starting any judgmental cunt-fest here Bunny, so be nice please. I asked because i was really thinking about this and about HOW viv might feel with time. Same with MIS. I hate seeing as people get hurt, i am sorry. And i cannot see this to end different. But thats just my own nerdy and very antipoly opinion, nothing you should worry about.

 

[ecstaticsub]

No, that makes sense, and serious duh, I forgot you were military though it was staring me in the face. That would not be that helpful. And it's definitely not a details discussion, really. You're working things a certain way, which is more akin to how I'd be doing it. What Homburg viv and mis are doing is another way of going at it.

I just asked my 13 yo daughter what she thought of poly. She has been introduced to a poly family who are friends of my sister. Now my daughter is not a typical young teen but---she said she thought it would be really cool. As long as no one was having an affair or sneaking around behind the others back. She said she loves family and the more family members the better.

Maybe the answer is how to be open and truthful without making the kids feel insecure. I would guess it would depend greatly on the kid themselves, too. My daughter is very open-minded. My son--not so much. I won't be asking him the same questions.

 

[Homburg]

You know i am NOT poly at all and i will skip that as i have a big respect for what you 3 trying to do. I am a bit skeptic on the matter for "how long" can something like this work? but its none of my business.

I just wanted ask.. MIS is a youg woman and i bet she will want kids, one day, right?? When you 3 plan to live together, i supose Homburg would be their dad and thats FINE. I am just thinking what your kids will think about it then? I mean, if my parents was in something like this, i would feel uhm i dunno how to say it, i would feel just VERY BAD, about knowing my dad who lives with my mum and look like everything is fucking okay, is having a child with someone else, too. You know what i mean??

Good for you. Luckily you are not in this situation. And, if you are smart, you'll stay out of it, as it winds you up badly enough that you feel the need to post in every poly-related thread that pops up on the boards.

Poly is not for everyone. It is a damned shame that those for whom poly is not a good choice can't just nod and let the poly folks do their thing.

I am not trying to judge or offend you here, i am really not. It just came to mind and i was thinking how hard all this can become for you one day...

Its no secret I AM AGAINST poly yup. I am jelaous fuck, i know i am, i could never ever do this.

Honest question - If you despise it so much, why do you keep getting into these discussions? Do you honestly feel like you are going to convert anyone to monogamy? Do you feel like your posts are somehow going to cause a lightbulb to go on and someone will rethink some core sexual wiring?

Seriously, your own hatred of the topic just undermines any credibility you might have in a thread such as this. And I'm not trying to insult you when I say that. If you hate it so much, just leave these threads unopened. It's easier on everyone.

I might do this to please my Master, but i would suffer like a dog, inside. I was thinking about viv many many times lately and about how shes really feeling about this. I think we sub's often do things "just" to please our Master... What i am saying is, have viv ever told you shes dreaming about sharing you with another woman Homburg?? I am asking cuz i dunno much woman who dream about it lol. I dunno any actualy. What you do is your thing, i am just trying to say you should be 150% sure that you wont hurt your wife badly with time, as i feel you would hate to do that...

Yes, she has. Enjoy.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Thanks !

I want to thank Homburg, viv and mis for this thread. Poly is a subject that many people feel strongly about. Your situation bring up some unique challenges, but at least from my POV could really be awesome.

I think it is great that some of the tough questions are being brought up. It is still early in your relationship so many questions don't need to be answered yet.

Of course, it really is none of our business what the three of you decide. I truly appreciate what you have shared with us.

 

[Homburg]

Maybe she doesn't want babies any time soon.

Maybe she's operating on the realistic expectation that this may be an important though not necessarily lifelong relationship (at her age, very realistic)

Maybe they'll work out whatever needs working out at that juncture

Maybe the network would expand and include a secondary male partner or something

there are so many possibilities

You are correct, Netz. These are all things that have come up in discussion. People seem to want to explore "every" possibility, and are somehow thinking that we need to do so. I'm boggled by this, as no one can plan for every possibility, nor even think of every possibility.

We've examined a load of scenarios. We've talked about a lot of different things. Yep, we've not discussed what would happen if martians invaded. Thoughtless of me, I know.

 

[Netzach]

I just asked my 13 yo daughter what she thought of poly. She has been introduced to a poly family who are friends of my sister. Now my daughter is not a typical young teen but---she said she thought it would be really cool. As long as no one was having an affair or sneaking around behind the others back. She said she loves family and the more family members the better.

Maybe the answer is how to be open and truthful without making the kids feel insecure. I would guess it would depend greatly on the kid themselves, too. My daughter is very open-minded. My son--not so much. I won't be asking him the same questions.

I totally get it. H has two kids, one adopted and one biological. It's not just nurture at all - you'd never think these two had the same home. I've yet to meet them, but I think with them being college aged and adult now it's in the eventual cards that I will, just not while things are quite this LD. I hope I get to meet them, they both sound incredibly cool people.