Poly & BDSM or can a sub have two Masters?

[Homburg]

I have to ask, do you ever feel ashamed of these reactions? As humans, we are usually considered to be more evolved and cerebral. Does it ever bother you that you are a bit of a throwback in this way? I don't mean to insult, I have just heard over and over how you "can't help it" and I wanted to ask how that makes you feel.

Honestly, not really. I would be ashamed of these reactions if I weren't self-aware to recognise them and avoid the situations that cause said reactions to arise, or not able to control myself when situations do come up. I've yet to pound someone flat for touching my wife.

I recognise the primal within myself, and while I cannot say I revel in it, I accept it. I accept my sadism. I accept my dominance. I accept my moodiness. I accept myself.

Is there that much of a difference between this reaction and the desire to cause pain for my own pleasure? Both are indicative of frankly dangerous impulses in my psyche. One is just more societally accepted than the other, and which one of those is the more accepted I leave as an exercise to the reader.

As to evolved and cerebral, we are discussing motivations and reasoning. While I am using gorilla metaphors to describe myself, do I sound bestial to you in my writing? I am attempting to honestly explain one of the trolls lurking under my personal bridge. You want I should give high-brow reasons for dark, emotional urges? I figure that honestly and self-awareness is a better tack here.

And, no, it did not sound insulting, nor did I take it as such. Ever so slightly "male pig-dog" judgemental, but, well, I am a male pig-dog, so it is accurate

--

Disclaimer: I apologize to Homburg-sama for making him the example of my badly explained thought ...

You hit the proverbial nail on the head, rida-chan. Thank you.

 

[Netzach]

I have to ask, do you ever feel ashamed of these reactions? As humans, we are usually considered to be more evolved and cerebral. Does it ever bother you that you are a bit of a throwback in this way? I don't mean to insult, I have just heard over and over how you "can't help it" and I wanted to ask how that makes you feel.

Wow, maybe you hit on a boys versus girls-ism that I hadn't really thought of in these terms- but I think about the FemDom subculture taken as a whole, and it's much more on the side of transcending our -- whatever. I mean, to the point of ironclad virginal idiocy, don't get me wrong.

We digress.

The point is, could I co-own property? Definitely, as long as I was with someone in the endeavor who respected me and my rights to it, and was willing to present a united front in our decisions about said property, and someone whom *I* respected enough to not decide I was going to need to best him/her. The latter might be the harder part, but it's possible.

While dominant people are kind of wired win-or-die, I think that some type-B sorts can also collaborate with other humans, so long as it's clear that we're not being told what to do and how to do it. There's also this assumption that if I'm kind and a sport and want to indulge you and your slave girl susie within your parameters because I'm a friendly and relaxed sado above all, bossing ME around for your gratification is somehow built into that arrangement - uh, no go. See Domme tendencies suddenly hit all time highs.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I've honestly never grokked that reaction.

Oh - I never suggested (or meant to suggest) you did or would.

 

[Etoile]

Honestly, not really. I would be ashamed of these reactions if I weren't self-aware to recognise them and avoid the situations that cause said reactions to arise, or not able to control myself when situations do come up. I've yet to pound someone flat for touching my wife.

I recognise the primal within myself, and while I cannot say I revel in it, I accept it. I accept my sadism. I accept my dominance. I accept my moodiness. I accept myself.

Is there that much of a difference between this reaction and the desire to cause pain for my own pleasure? Both are indicative of frankly dangerous impulses in my psyche. One is just more societally accepted than the other, and which one of those is the more accepted I leave as an exercise to the reader.

As to evolved and cerebral, we are discussing motivations and reasoning. While I am using gorilla metaphors to describe myself, do I sound bestial to you in my writing? I am attempting to honestly explain one of the trolls lurking under my personal bridge. You want I should give high-brow reasons for dark, emotional urges? I figure that honestly and self-awareness is a better tack here.

And, no, it did not sound insulting, nor did I take it as such. Ever so slightly "male pig-dog" judgemental, but, well, I am a male pig-dog, so it is accurate

I think it's great that you can accept it and embrace it. I think the reason I asked the question is because it would scare me if I felt that way about myself. I see it as something to push down inside you, but if you're cool with it, that's wonderful.

 

[h_i_s]

I am trying to make same clarity of what is going on inside my mind, so I have a question for you SENPAI (more expert) out there.

Poly & BDSM or can a sub have two Masters?

I always knew I am wired for poly. Didn't fully accept it/embrace it until recently. Another thing that I always have been but have truly accepted and embraced only recently is that I am a sub, of the sextoy/slut variety that love bondage and mental power exchange.

I am very lucky in that my Hubby is the one that realized my sub tendencies and his own Dom ones and have introduced me/us to a D/s dynamic in the bedroom area. After my initial reluctancy, I am now the one that is fully exploring the lifestyle. Hubby is very understanding and has given me permission to explore my submissiveness with other Doms, if so I wish, as he sees that I need something that he cannot give me right now .

As I am really new to all this, I am just dipping my toes, and starting with on-line.

Knowing myself, I do not care for casual relationship. I want/need a deep connection. That means that if I get involved with another Dom, whether on-line or in real life, I will be totally emotionally invested, and probably deeply in love with this new person as well.

My question is: do you think that is possible to be a sub to two Masters?　If not, why? And if yes, under what conditions? Would it work only if one of the Master is a switch and sub to the Main Master?

What I would like to hear are opinion from both sides, Dom and sub; both general opinions and specific experiences will be greatly appreciated.

thank you

rida

It is possible and it exists.
It requires everything that most successful relationships require... but in multitudes of 3 rather than 2.

3 way trust
3 way communication
3 way planning and negotiating and defining of boundaries etc ect
3 way respect
etc ect ect

I would guess that it can work in any combination that works for thos einvolved regarding the switch/sub/Dom issue... aka 'PYL/pyl orientation'.

The one example that I know of: slave/Owner/Owner or pyl/PYL/PYL . The two dominant men do not switch (may or may not be BI.. never was made clear to me) .. and thier slave who is shared between them doesn't switch (as far as I know of).

 

[Homburg]

Oh - I never suggested (or meant to suggest) you did or would.

I was just expressing my own confusion over it as a way to offer my opinion on the topic. I find that reaction to be boggling and non-sensical.

--

I think it's great that you can accept it and embrace it. I think the reason I asked the question is because it would scare me if I felt that way about myself. I see it as something to push down inside you, but if you're cool with it, that's wonderful.

It does scare me. I thought that was clear when I talked about taking measures to avoid the situations that cause those reactions? And I do push it down. Again, I've talked about this when I posted on suppressing those feelings when my best friend was doing some knifeplay on my gal. That was suppression supported by logic.

I don't run with these feelings, Etoile, but I also do not hide from them. I accept them, and deal with them. Eh, I liken it to an allergic reaction. I can't control being allergic to the pollen of pecan trees, but I can stay away from the bloody things. I can't control feeling challenged by some other male touching my woman, but I can prevent many of those situations by laying very clear ground rules. In the former case, I prevent myself sneezing, itchy eyes, coughing, and wanting to die. In the latter case, I prevent myself from causing bodily harm to someone, jail time, lawsuits, etc.

*shrug* I'm scary. Even I think so.

 

[rida]

sinn0cent1, thank you for your comment.

I understand that for such an arrangement to work, the basic struggle that two people face to get along are now multiplied.
It would require a lot of maturity on all party involved, and even more so in the case of a r/l arrangement.

Thinking it over, thanks to all the contribution, I am realizing that even in the case of one of the two Dom being a purely on-line relationship, there is a lot of things that need to be dealt with, beside the basic of who ultimately has the last word on things. And as things change and evolve, today arrangement might not work tomorrow.

 

[rida]

.....

*shrug* I'm scary. Even I think so.

Honestly, I believe that people that are not aware or do not want to acknoledge their animal instincts and fool themselves in believing they are totally rational being are much more scary.

The fact that you scare youself is enough to make you safe.

 

[Etoile]

Honestly, I believe that people that are not aware or do not want to acknoledge their animal instincts and fool themselves in believing they are totally rational being are much more scary.

The fact that you scare youself is enough to make you safe.

I don't think "no animal instincts" necessarily equates to thinking I am totally rational. On the contrary, I know I have problems remaining rational, but I approach those times as a human with "issues" rather than saying "it's because I'm an animal, I can't help those leftover instincts." For example, my problem is mainly with anxiety. I am probably a chipmunk more than anything else. OMG SOMETHING SCARY RUUUUUUN FREAK OUT OMG! is my usual reaction to fear. Even if I do not physically try to escape, I try to get away mentally. But it's not because I'm a chipmunk, it's just a mental issue that I, a human person, have to struggle with.

I don't know if that makes sense, and I still don't mean to insult Homburg. I just want to clarify that I don't acknowledge my animal instincts, but I don't fool myself into thinking I'm totally rational, either.

 

[Homburg]

I don't think "no animal instincts" necessarily equates to thinking I am totally rational. On the contrary, I know I have problems remaining rational, but I approach those times as a human with "issues" rather than saying "it's because I'm an animal, I can't help those leftover instincts." For example, my problem is mainly with anxiety. I am probably a chipmunk more than anything else. OMG SOMETHING SCARY RUUUUUUN FREAK OUT OMG! is my usual reaction to fear. Even if I do not physically try to escape, I try to get away mentally. But it's not because I'm a chipmunk, it's just a mental issue that I, a human person, have to struggle with.

I don't know if that makes sense, and I still don't mean to insult Homburg. I just want to clarify that I don't acknowledge my animal instincts, but I don't fool myself into thinking I'm totally rational, either.

Nah, I'm not insulted. Hell, just the other night I was told "Your primary saving grace is how subhuman you are." Considering the context (a discussion of sexuality and attraction), I was utterly uninsulted. I'm not insulted here.

Your chipmunk example is a good one, and representative of a fundamental difference in wiring amongst various people. Years ago, a friend of mine had a Japanese Akita, big sumbitch too. I really loved that dog, he was loyal, funny, and smarter than any dog I've ever seen. He also had a very serious fear-aggression response. When Kuma got scared, somebody was gonna get bitten. Luckily, as a freaky huge monster dog, he rarely got scared. Unluckily, as a freaky huge monster dog, when Kuma did get scared, it was ugly. He got into a tussle or three, and his owner had to take more and more precautions to handle the dog, even though he could empirically show that the dog had been provoked ("Your honor, the 'victim' was breaking in to my house!"). Eventually, my buddy just had Kuma put down, as the restrictions got to the point where the dog simply could not function in the local area, and he could neither afford to move, nor board the dog somewhere.

I have a similar fear-aggression response. When I feel fear, it turns into aggression/action. And, yes, Kuma was an object lesson for me. Sure, I'd long ago learned to choke things back, but watching the smartest dog I've even known get taken out to be put down because of his wiring is something I'll never forget.

I will, however, disagree with you comment regarding "leftover instincts". I rather like my instincts. Suckling as an infant is handy to keep you from dying. Pulling your hand back when you touch something hot? Likewise handy. In your case, fleeing when markedly threatened is an instinct, and has probably saved your butt. In that area, instinct has gotten me into trouble here and there, and also caused me to hop into things and get other people out of trouble. I accept it either way. I like what I am, subhuman and all

 

[pussy_willow]

Ahhh glorious internets, I knew it would point me to the place where I would find all the clues, and lo, this thread was shown to me!

So I've had a little quandary and no like minded peoples around me to sit down with a cup of tea and talk it through. So I invite you to put the kettle and open the biscuits.

I am poly and a Domme, I have known this for a long time, but coming from small town land have only just started living the lifestyle. I have found myself the puppy boy I have always wanted and we have been having glorious playtimes together for about six months. We live together and I am his Mistress. I should also mention that he is mostly straight.

The thing is, he has another Master, they have been playing together for about 5 years, I have encouraged this relationship. In my mind when puppy goes to see his Master he is having Extra Special Obedience Lessons with someone who is more experienced and who can provide him with the hard training that he needs. At first puppy resisted seeing his Master as he was struggling coming to terms with the fact he is a filthy slut. Now he is happier in his sluttiness and has started to see the Master again for the odd evening.

Now, this is not a problem for me, I have fought jealousies and managed to find happiness in my puppy's happiness and obedience. l have discussed with the puppy ways in which he can help alleviate jealousies, such as letting me know if he stays over, giving me extra attention on his return and telling me all about what filthy things he got up to (that's my favourite bit).

There is one more thing on the list of things though, that is that I want to meet the Master and discuss what we both want for the puppy and to come up with some sort of arrangement. I wanted us to not necessarily be best buddskis, but to work together to keep everything cool. I have just found out, however, that the Master does not want to meet me and this throws everything into disarray. I am very surprised at his response, he is much older and more experienced and I thought that he would be open to this... I really want to avoid a 'who do you obey more scenario?'

So, what do you suggest helpful peoples? How do you think I can come up with a solution and also what do you think are the Masters motives for refusing to see me?

A squillion thankings!

 

[Netzach]

Ahhh glorious internets, I knew it would point me to the place where I would find all the clues, and lo, this thread was shown to me!

So I've had a little quandary and no like minded peoples around me to sit down with a cup of tea and talk it through. So I invite you to put the kettle and open the biscuits.

I am poly and a Domme, I have known this for a long time, but coming from small town land have only just started living the lifestyle. I have found myself the puppy boy I have always wanted and we have been having glorious playtimes together for about six months. We live together and I am his Mistress. I should also mention that he is mostly straight.

The thing is, he has another Master, they have been playing together for about 5 years, I have encouraged this relationship. In my mind when puppy goes to see his Master he is having Extra Special Obedience Lessons with someone who is more experienced and who can provide him with the hard training that he needs. At first puppy resisted seeing his Master as he was struggling coming to terms with the fact he is a filthy slut. Now he is happier in his sluttiness and has started to see the Master again for the odd evening.

Now, this is not a problem for me, I have fought jealousies and managed to find happiness in my puppy's happiness and obedience. l have discussed with the puppy ways in which he can help alleviate jealousies, such as letting me know if he stays over, giving me extra attention on his return and telling me all about what filthy things he got up to (that's my favourite bit).

There is one more thing on the list of things though, that is that I want to meet the Master and discuss what we both want for the puppy and to come up with some sort of arrangement. I wanted us to not necessarily be best buddskis, but to work together to keep everything cool. I have just found out, however, that the Master does not want to meet me and this throws everything into disarray. I am very surprised at his response, he is much older and more experienced and I thought that he would be open to this... I really want to avoid a 'who do you obey more scenario?'

So, what do you suggest helpful peoples? How do you think I can come up with a solution and also what do you think are the Masters motives for refusing to see me?

A squillion thankings!

If the dude is super super gay, he may just not like sharing his intimate life with a woman. He may be OK with the generalities but really uncomfortable around the details of it.

I've done poly where my partner is doing M/m and it's always been like that. In a lot of cases these are older guys who came out after marriage and they think I'm cool, but don't really want to feel like they're "going there" again.

This said, I've always been able to get in a hi how are you, let's have a coffee. Hm.

 

[Marquis]

I have read neither the original post nor any of the responses, but I am happy to report that the conclusive answer on this matters is:

No. A sub cannot have two masters.

A sub can only have one master. Me. I can have two subs though, and they should spend 40% of their time recruiting other subs for me as well.

 

[CrimsonDom]

To OP I can honestly say if my sub came to me and said she wanted a second master I would refuse. Due to the fact she let herself be collared by me and if the time came where I wasn't enough for her and she needed a second Master to satisfy her I would be forced to remove her collar and set her free. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I have read neither the original post nor any of the responses, but I am happy to report that the conclusive answer on this matters is:

No. A sub cannot have two masters.

A sub can only have one master. Me. I can have two subs though, and they should spend 40% of their time recruiting other subs for me as well.

LOL silly Marquis. I have two Masters...and I would recruit a million subs for them if they wanted. Unfortunately they do not because they have a hard enough time keeping up with the one they have.

 

[intothewoods]

I have read neither the original post nor any of the responses, but I am happy to report that the conclusive answer on this matters is:

No. A sub cannot have two masters.

A sub can only have one master. Me. I can have two subs though, and they should spend 40% of their time recruiting other subs for me as well.

Marquis got his groove back.