Pointless argumentative thread alert

[Joe Wordsworth]

Because you stand by your original post, I'll respect it with a response.

Pointless arguements? Debating politics and religion with porn authors? Not voicing an opinion on anything other than how wrong others are?

Now you want to bash apathy?

I will maintain that the arguments I get involved in do not "lack point". They all have points. Several. And a common overall point in each one is "The assertion you made about X was unfair, unwarranted, or simply false for Y reasons"; a point made because its only fair that all sides to an issue be represented.

I would say that I am debating politics and religion with porn authors... that is true. But that's not the whole truth, if we're to be totally honest I'm debating politics and religion with porn authors who are making assertions about politics and religion, first. It begs the question, are you tired of the religion and politics talk... or just my responses to it?

As for my opinion, setting aside that I have many expressed opinions here, I would say that I'm not just showing people how they are wrong... I'm hoping with every attempt to open a dialogue to find out between the lot of us what is right.

I wasn't bashing apathy, either. I was saying that I can respect a willfull decision to not care about something, but I believe apathy does more harm than good. It's not bashing, exactly, I'm not saying apathy is "evil". I'm saying that I believe that awareness and activism do more good than unawareness and inactivism.

 

[shereads]

Thanks shereads, but in this case I blew it. The one time I wasn't on was the last time. She hasn't forgiven me and doesn't speak to me or return my calls. I should have tried to explain to her what had happened to me that day but we never got that far. Unfortunately I think that for her, I was her only hope, and when I wasn't there she was lost. It was my fault, I handled it wrong, I must have, because I can never fix it.

It's just as likely that she hasn't forgiven herself. People in a major depression often push friends away; we know they're putting up with a lot, and we're ashamed of it. Someone with bipolar disorder, especially if she's been relying on you for support, might be doing the same thing. No one wants to take all the time, and if she thinks she's incapable of giving anything back, she might express it as resentment. Pardon the pop psych outburst. I don't know how it feels to be bipolar, but I know they can be pure hell to live with. And I know from my own experience with depression that the people I least wanted to be around were the ones I cared for. I wanted to spare them; they thought I found their friendship lacking.

 

[doormouse]

Did you hear about the dyslexic atheist? He didn't believe in dogs.

OMG I just got that...

how sad LOL

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

Because you stand by your original post, I'll respect it with a response.



I will maintain that the arguments I get involved in do not "lack point". They all have points. Several. And a common overall point in each one is "The assertion you made about X was unfair, unwarranted, or simply false for Y reasons"; a point made because its only fair that all sides to an issue be represented.

I would say that I am debating politics and religion with porn authors... that is true. But that's not the whole truth, if we're to be totally honest I'm debating politics and religion with porn authors who are making assertions about politics and religion, first. It begs the question, are you tired of the religion and politics talk... or just my responses to it?

As for my opinion, setting aside that I have many expressed opinions here, I would say that I'm not just showing people how they are wrong... I'm hoping with every attempt to open a dialogue to find out between the lot of us what is right.

I wasn't bashing apathy, either. I was saying that I can respect a willfull decision to not care about something, but I believe apathy does more harm than good. It's not bashing, exactly, I'm not saying apathy is "evil". I'm saying that I believe that awareness and activism do more good than unawareness and inactivism.

You're a trip JW. lol You're good at baiting. Do you fish much? lmfao

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Lord DragonsWing
You're a trip JW. lol You're good at baiting. Do you fish much? lmfao

I don't entirely understand what you mean.

addendum: I mean to say, I'm not sure what you find funny--I wasn't making any jokes... I was a clear as I could about my position in direct relation to the questions asked. I'm rather hoping you're not just being sarcastic, because that'd be an awfully dickish thing to do.

 

[doormouse]

Thanks LDW and doormouse, I screwed up and got all serious and shoulda just made one of my jokes. I like to laugh and have fun. I think I broke my own rule "thou shalt not say anything to hurt anyone's feelings" and I was just fired up and not thinking.

Well, for one, Lisa... You are a loveable person who is a trip on the boards.

I'm sorry if i offend here perdita, but you know Lisa and you still chose to openly comment instead of taking it private. I didn't mean that the way it came out, sorry. I meant, you know her as who she truly is. She's a doll. You know she'd never offend intentionally. I'll stand by her, and i've only known her a few months and love her to bits.

You made your point Lisa. We're all guilty of putting our foot in our mouth, and I don't think you did that at all.

Joe thrives on comments like yours. They egg him on.

Hon, you made me laugh. You said probably what a lot of us were thinking and were too chicken to say it ourselves.

I love you all the more for it. Don't be sorry. Stand by your words. If you won't I will.

You're a babe

 

[Lisa Denton]

Nahhhhhhhhhhh, you didn't screw up Lisa. You stood up for what you believed. We all respect that. Keep speaking your mind. Everyone loves to hear it.

Thanks, I never knew that pointless, meaningless arguements could also be entertaining and enlightening. I'm gonna answer some more stuff here, I was makin a sammich.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Joe thrives on comments like yours. They egg him on.

No, Joe is offended by comments like that and if they "egged" Joe on, Joe would have responded to it and argued about it instead of letting it go (I only responded after it was sort of cleared to be alright if I did).

Let's not assume what Joe is like, Joe is pretty good about just being honest about it. Joe likes Lisa, Lisa has been harsh to Joe, but Joe has... in the end... been treated fairly by Lisa.

Lisa made some offensive moves, Lisa informally apologized for them--while saying she stood by her point. That's not a bad thing. More people should take responsibility for being rude, while maintaining their opinion.

Joe wishes people would address his points and not his character, but Joe realized he may expect too much.

 

[Lisa Denton]

It's just as likely that she hasn't forgiven herself. People in a major depression often push friends away; we know they're putting up with a lot, and we're ashamed of it. Someone with bipolar disorder, especially if she's been relying on you for support, might be doing the same thing. No one wants to take all the time, and if she thinks she's incapable of giving anything back, she might express it as resentment. Pardon the pop psych outburst. I don't know how it feels to be bipolar, but I know they can be pure hell to live with. And I know from my own experience with depression that the people I least wanted to be around were the ones I cared for. I wanted to spare them; they thought I found their friendship lacking.

Yes, there was a thread here the other day about being friends with people who have major issues. I felt I shouldn't join in cause I could only serve as an example of what not to do. I have been told I never should have agreed with her so much, that I should have told her to be strong, and just get through things. I don't know, I just know what I did was wrong. She has no friends to speak of and has cut herself off from her family.

 

[shereads]

I'm hoping with every attempt to open a dialogue to find out between the lot of us what is right.

Is that all? Joe, why didn't you just say so? That's easy.

We're all right. On a topic that can't be proven (the existence of God) or calculated (the benefits of religion relative to the harm inflicted in the name of religion), it comes down to individual perception. Neither of us can make the other's reality invalid. I can list the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials, and you can probably recount stories of heroism and compassion performed in the name of God. I can argue that human kindness and the willingness to sacrifice for others are equally present in people who have no religion.

What you can't accomplish here, however well you defend your point, is to undo the fear and anger that's been endendered among non-religious people by the Ashcrofts and George W. Bushes. The lack of respect for the separation of church and state smells faintly like the Taliban, and it scares the hell out of a lot of people who were never frightened of their own government before. When I hear the president use language like "keeping marriage sacred" to promote the first constitutional amendment in our history that would officially sanction discrimination against a minority group, I can hardly believe what I'm hearing. To the religious, it may sound normal. To the non-religious, it sounds like the world is turning upside down and there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[doormouse]

No, Joe is offended by comments like that and if they "egged" Joe on, Joe would have responded to it and argued about it instead of letting it go (I only responded after it was sort of cleared to be alright if I did).

Let's not assume what Joe is like, Joe is pretty good about just being honest about it. Joe likes Lisa, Lisa has been harsh to Joe, but Joe has... in the end... been treated fairly by Lisa.

Lisa made some offensive moves, Lisa informally apologized for them--while saying she stood by her point. That's not a bad thing. More people should take responsibility for being rude, while maintaining their opinion.

Joe wishes people would address his points and not his character, but Joe realized he may expect too much.

Joe was offended???

LMFAO!!!! Well eat shit and taste your own medicine!!

What about your comments you've so freely lashed out on others???? They're supposed to just swallow it and move on???

How was she harsh? How the hell was she any more harsh than you have been, minus your glorified text... she spoke her mind.

Don't turn this on Lisa. She commented. Stiff fucking shit!!!

Aren't others allowed an opinion when mr. Joe has something to say????

I just pass over your comments. That's how much your dribble means to me. But don't you DARE mention Lisa. She's one of MANY who have had the guts to comment in fear of the retaliation of your snot nosed college ways.

Go ahead 'Joe'. I"m in for the night. You want to fault my friends posts? I'm here to fight.

Give it your best shot.

 

[shereads]

Joe, I take it all back.



Doormouse, go to your corner for time-out. Bad! {smacking with newspaper}

 

[doormouse]

Joe, I take it all back.



Doormouse, go to your corner for time-out. Bad! {smacking with newspaper}

Aww... but.. but

 

[Lord DragonsWing]

I don't entirely understand what you mean.

addendum: I mean to say, I'm not sure what you find funny--I wasn't making any jokes... I was a clear as I could about my position in direct relation to the questions asked. I'm rather hoping you're not just being sarcastic, because that'd be an awfully dickish thing to do.

* zips up his pants. Dickish? Damn, I thought I was being honest.

Joe, you are welcome to your opinions. But from what I see with you is you're nothing but an antogonist. You stir up trouble wherever you post. You argue with everyone. Your facts are selectively chosen. To discuss something intelligently with you is impossible. You're biased. You have insulted friends.

You want to call me dickish? Please to you I am. I am very open minded and love a good debate. Political, religious or otherwise. You may ask my fiance if you don't belive it. But you're doing nothing but stirring up trouble. So start to think for yourself. And don't insult friends again to make yourself look so good.

*Zips up his pants and walks away. Am I dangling Doormouse????????????????????????

 

[doormouse]

* zips up his pants. Dickish? Damn, I thought I was being honest.


*Zips up his pants and walks away. Am I dangling Doormouse????????????????????????

Hon, the only thing dangling is the carrot on the string that Joe holds.

You rock baby.. so does that ROCK HARD COCK of yours... Mmmm let's go do something about that, shall we???

 

[shereads]

Yes, there was a thread here the other day about being friends with people who have major issues. I felt I shouldn't join in cause I could only serve as an example of what not to do. I have been told I never should have agreed with her so much, that I should have told her to be strong, and just get through things. I don't know, I just know what I did was wrong. She has no friends to speak of and has cut herself off from her family.

There isn't a manual on how to be a good friend. Show me someone who knows how you should and shouldn't love and support someone with a mental disorder, and I'll show you a family who did it so well, the young woman convinced them all she was well and happy. Then she took her life, while her best friends watched. There's nothing they could have done differently, because they had no way to know what was really going on. Even her doctor was fooled. How can you hope to predict the right response to something as complicated as bipolar disorder when medical science doesn't even understand it fully? Cut yourself some slack.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Because you stand by your original post, I'll respect it with a response.



I will maintain that the arguments I get involved in do not "lack point". They all have points. Several. And a common overall point in each one is "The assertion you made about X was unfair, unwarranted, or simply false for Y reasons"; a point made because its only fair that all sides to an issue be represented.

I would say that I am debating politics and religion with porn authors... that is true. But that's not the whole truth, if we're to be totally honest I'm debating politics and religion with porn authors who are making assertions about politics and religion, first. It begs the question, are you tired of the religion and politics talk... or just my responses to it?

As for my opinion, setting aside that I have many expressed opinions here, I would say that I'm not just showing people how they are wrong... I'm hoping with every attempt to open a dialogue to find out between the lot of us what is right.

I wasn't bashing apathy, either. I was saying that I can respect a willfull decision to not care about something, but I believe apathy does more harm than good. It's not bashing, exactly, I'm not saying apathy is "evil". I'm saying that I believe that awareness and activism do more good than unawareness and inactivism.

Hey!! Everybody slow down!!! I'm tryin to eat a sammich here!!! Let me ketchup!!!

Dearest Joe, I did not apologize because my post was correct but I don't like saying someone else is wrong. As you said, you always point out that what someone else said is unfair, unwarranted or false. If that can't be done you point out how they said it wrong. Taking apart the post and jabbing at the wording and sentences.
I don't see a lot of posts where you say someone has opened your eyes or said something eloquent and meaningful which has caused you to re-think an opinion.
You talk down to everyone. Don't seem to hear what the entirity of a post was about. And then point how wrong they were.
Its something you will have to learn over time, if you assume everyone is less intelligent than you, then you aren't as intelligent as you think you are. At least thats how I feel about things.
Anywho, I am not gonna say you are wrong, just that I don't agree with you. Love, Lisa

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

It would be hard, but not impossible... and its something I think is worth the effort at every turn. I see your point, that those who have been burned by popular religion aren't easily moved or changed, but that doesn't mean their opinions are correct... no more than Bush or Ashcroft. If opinions are worth having, and worth publicizing, then they're worth debating.

Originally posted by doormouse
Joe was offended???

Yes. Lisa admitted as much. It has happened before.

Originally posted by Lord DragonsWing
Joe, you are welcome to your opinions. But from what I see with you is you're nothing but an antogonist. You stir up trouble wherever you post. You argue with everyone. Your facts are selectively chosen. To discuss something intelligently with you is impossible. You're biased. You have insulted friends.

I respond to antagonizing statements. Like it or not, "God sucks" is an antagonizing statement. I argue with clarity and logic, and without bias. If you can please identify where I have been biased or irrational, please do... LDW, this will make the second time I've asked you that if you find that I am not discussing something intelligently, rationally, or clearly for you to please point out where. You seem to prefer, instead, avoiding the actual meat-and-potatoes of what is being talked about in favor of simply dismissing me as "being difficult".

You want to call me dickish? Please to you I am. I am very open minded and love a good debate. Political, religious or otherwise. You may ask my fiance if you don't belive it. But you're doing nothing but stirring up trouble. So start to think for yourself. And don't insult friends again to make yourself look so good.

I don't want to call you anything. I said that it seemed like you were being sarcastic and that would be dickish, and that I hoped that you weren't. If you were as open-minded as you say, and as willing to debate... I invite you to please do so. "Thinking for myself" is part of my profession and if people have been offended by me questioning the things they put forth to the community to read then I apologize, but I rather do suggest that I have at no point been insulting. Unless you're saying that merely questioning is an insult--which would be "closeminded" at its best.

 

[doormouse]

It would be hard, but not impossible... and its something I think is worth the effort at every turn. I see your point, that those who have been burned by popular religion aren't easily moved or changed, but that doesn't mean their opinions are correct... no more than Bush or Ashcroft. If opinions are worth having, and worth publicizing, then they're worth debating.




Yes. Lisa admitted as much. It has happened before.




I respond to antagonizing statements. Like it or not, "God sucks" is an antagonizing statement. I argue with clarity and logic, and without bias. If you can please identify where I have been biased or irrational, please do... LDW, this will make the second time I've asked you that if you find that I am not discussing something intelligently, rationally, or clearly for you to please point out where. You seem to prefer, instead, avoiding the actual meat-and-potatoes of what is being talked about in favor of simply dismissing me as "being difficult".



I don't want to call you anything. I said that it seemed like you were being sarcastic and that would be dickish, and that I hoped that you weren't. If you were as open-minded as you say, and as willing to debate... I invite you to please do so. "Thinking for myself" is part of my profession and if people have been offended by me questioning the things they put forth to the community to read then I apologize, but I rather do suggest that I have at no point been insulting. Unless you're saying that merely questioning is an insult--which would be "closeminded" at its best.

I see you quoted me once.

Why 'Joe'?

Because I won't stand for your mindless dribble?

Because I won't let you belittle my friends with your paragraph after paragraph of crap?

Where's your point?

This thread started because you hi-jacked LDW's thread with your senseless bullshit.

So, now. Joe. Where's your point?

The original arguement was about wicca and the military.

So, where does your endless rant have any bearing on the original bearing?

I think ye want attention.

 

[shereads]

Please put your love offerings in the plate. The Church of Our Lady of Erotica accepts cash, PayPal and major credit cards. No checks please.

Joe, you have an agile mind, and like a monkey on the loose, it's bound to make people nervous. It doesn't mean you should have your prehensile tail replaced with... Where was this analogy headed?

I think I was trying to give you a compliment or something. I'm tired.

Will you settle for a banana?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Lisa Denton
Hey!! Everybody slow down!!! I'm tryin to eat a sammich here!!! Let me ketchup!!!

Dearest Joe, I did not apologize because my post was correct but I don't like saying someone else is wrong. As you said, you always point out that what someone else said is unfair, unwarranted or false. If that can't be done you point out how they said it wrong. Taking apart the post and jabbing at the wording and sentences.
I don't see a lot of posts where you say someone has opened your eyes or said something eloquent and meaningful which has caused you to re-think an opinion.
You talk down to everyone. Don't seem to hear what the entirity of a post was about. And then point how wrong they were.
Its something you will have to learn over time, if you assume everyone is less intelligent than you, then you aren't as intelligent as you think you are. At least thats how I feel about things.
Anywho, I am not gonna say you are wrong, just that I don't agree with you. Love, Lisa

I don't like saying someone is wrong, either. I don't think I've done that in a long time, now... may have, but I can't think of the last time. Things that aren't correct are often said, though, and I believe it a dangerous thing to let incorrect things pass without at least a mention of their not being necessarily true. That may seem argumentative, but its just intellectual responsibility.

I have been enlightened many, many times. Your last outburst against me (in the thread where I ask about sentimental feelings) I even said that I hadn't intended some things but I had realized at that point how they came across. I learned a lot there.

I listen to everything said. I do. I try and make sure I understand a post before arguing with it (even going so far as to only say "I do not understand", sometimes).. What seems like "talking down" is just "being as polite and unbiased as possible" for me. I try and not get personal on any matter like those we're talking about, and if that makes me seem cold... well, I get enough people saying "you're biased and unreasonable" when I'm being objective and cold--I'd hate to see how much Ad Hominem would happen if I weren't.

I don't assume myself more intelligent than anyone here... I can't recall which thread it is, but I'm sure a search could find it (it was recent), but I admit I have a below-average intelligence. I don't have a 130 IQ. Never have. I may be the only person I've met, online, who isn't a genius.

You say you don't want to say I'm wrong... but if you disagree with me, Lisa, you /are/ saying I'm wrong. There's nothing bad about that--its not something people should be afraid of. Being wrong is not a crime. Nor is being wrong an offense. It means that either my reasons aren't good enough, which I'd like for you to point out why if you would; or your reasons for disagreeing aren't good, which is also possible.

If you feel up to it, I made some responses to your questions, where am I wrong?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by doormouse
I see you quoted me once.

Why 'Joe'?

Because I won't stand for your mindless dribble?

Because I won't let you belittle my friends with your paragraph after paragraph of crap?

No, it was because I didn't think--from the tone of your post--that you were interested in being argued with. It sounded like you just wanted to insult me. I wasn't going to get into that.

If you would like me to respond to your points, doormouse, I will. If you just want to be right and offensive, I won't. Your call, honestly. I don't mind either.

 

[Lisa Denton]

No, Joe is offended by comments like that and if they "egged" Joe on, Joe would have responded to it and argued about it instead of letting it go (I only responded after it was sort of cleared to be alright if I did).

Let's not assume what Joe is like, Joe is pretty good about just being honest about it. Joe likes Lisa, Lisa has been harsh to Joe, but Joe has... in the end... been treated fairly by Lisa.

Lisa made some offensive moves, Lisa informally apologized for them--while saying she stood by her point. That's not a bad thing. More people should take responsibility for being rude, while maintaining their opinion.

Joe wishes people would address his points and not his character, but Joe realized he may expect too much.

Ooops, did you think I apologized? No, I said I came across a little stronger than I intended but that I stand by it.
You think I was harsh or rude? I don't.
I have treated you fairly in the end, middle and beginning. I treat everyone as well as I can. I take no responsibility for being rude. I wasn't rude.
You often come across as being rude, patronizing and a legend in your own mind. You take no responsibility for it. You think it goes over everyone's head.
I am not trying to be mean, just honest. I think you can make more sense to people and have more meaningful dialogue if you treat them as equals.

P.S. If you call me chica I will come through that screen.

 

[doormouse]

No, it was because I didn't think--from the tone of your post--that you were interested in being argued with. It sounded like you just wanted to insult me. I wasn't going to get into that.

If you would like me to respond to your points, doormouse, I will. If you just want to be right and offensive, I won't. Your call, honestly. I don't mind either.

You think I"m being offensive??


LOL

You don't know me yet.

You insult or accuse my friends, you hear my roar.

Back in your court. And don't, I know it's hard, blame anyone for your words.

 

[shereads]

I may be the only person I've met, online, who isn't a genius.

Don't feel bad, Joe. Some of us weren't geniuses until we attended Literotica's remedial classes in pornography.

Are you sure you're not smart? You talk gooder than the president.