Please read.

[rgraham666]

The dishonor associated with being a victim- that’s a big part, if not the heart, of the problem.

It's not just victims of abuse who are embarrassed and looked down upon, it's the victims of any sort of 'weakness'.

I kept my mouth shut about my mental illness for years because I thought I was just being 'weak'. I don't mind admitting it now, but people often draw back in fear and loathing when I do.

Our society admires 'strength' and dislikes 'weakness'. So the 'weak' are always looked down upon.

Oh and a for cloudy. Hang in there, beautiful.

 

[CharleyH]

Sorry. It just jumped out at me.

LOL, smarmy!


Abs. Do not forget that many men are raped and beaten, too and much goes unreported.

Gender is not lonely where violence is concerned.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Why Women Stay

Why Women Stay
The Barriers to Leaving
One of the most frustrating things for people outside a battering relationship is trying to understand why a woman doesn't just leave. A recent letter to Dear Abby on the subject was signed "Tired of Voluntary Victims."

The most important thing to keep in mind is that extreme emotional abuse is always present in domestic violence situations. On average, an abused woman will leave her partner 6-8 times. The reasons they return or stay in the relationship vary from case to case. Some of these include:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Situational Factors

Economic dependence. How can she support herself and the children?
Fear of greater physical danger to herself and her children if they try to leave.
Fear of being hunted down and suffering a worse beating than before.
Survival. Fear that her partner will follow her and kill her if she leaves, often based on real threats by her partner.
Fear of emotional damage to the children.
Fear of losing custody of the children, often based on her partner's remarks.
Lack of alternative housing; she has nowhere else to go.
Lack of job skills; she might not be able to get a job.
Social isolation resulting in lack of support from family and friends.
Social isolation resulting in lack of information about her alternatives.
Lack of understanding from family, friends, police, ministers, etc.
Negative responses from community, police, courts, social workers, etc.
Fear of involvement in the court process; she may have had bad experiences before.
Fear of the unknown. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."
Fear and ambivalence over making formidable life changes.
"Acceptable violence". The violence escalates slowly over time. Living with constant abuse numbs the victim so that she is unable to recognize that she is involved in a set pattern of abuse.
Ties to the community. The children would have to leave their school, she would have to leave all her friends and neighbors behind, etc. For some women it would be like being in the Witness Protection program--she could never have any contact with her old life.
Ties to her home and belongings.
Family pressure; because Mom always said, "I told you it wouldn't work out." or "You made your bed, now you sleep in it."
Fear of her abuser doing something to get her (report her to welfare, call her workplace, etc.)
Unable to use resources because of how they are provided (language problems, disability, homophobia, etc.)
Time needed to plan and prepare to leave.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emotional Factors

Insecurity about being alone, on her own; she's afraid she can't cope with home and children by herself.
Loyalty. "He's sick; if he had a broken leg or cancer--I would stay. This is no different."
Pity. He's worse off than she is; she feels sorry for him.
Wanting to help. "If I stay I can help him get better."
Fear that he will commit suicide if she leaves (often he's told her this).
Denial. "It's really not that bad. Other people have it worse."
Love. Often, the abuser is quite loving and lovable when he is not being abusive.
Love, especially during the "honeymoon" stage; she remembers what he used to be like.
Guilt. She believes--and her partner and the other significant others are quick to agree--that their problems are her fault.
Shame and humiliation in front of the community. "I don't want anyone else to know."
Unfounded optimism that the abuser will change.
Unfounded optimism that things will get better, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Learned helplessness. trying every possible method to change something in our environment, but with no success, so that we eventually expect to fail. Feeling helpless is a logical response to constant resistance to our efforts. This can be seen with prisoners of war, people taken hostage, people living in poverty who cannot get work, etc.
False hope. "He's starting to do things I've been asking for." (counseling, anger management, things she sees as a chance of improvement.)
Guilt. She believes that the violence is caused through some inadequacy of her own (she is often told this); feels as though she deserves it for failing.
Responsibility. She feels as though she only needs to meet some set of vague expectations in order to earn the abuser's approval.
Insecurity over her potential independence and lack of emotional support.
Guilt about the failure of the marriage/relationship.
Demolished self-esteem. "I thought I was too (fat, stupid, ugly, whatever he's been calling her) to leave."
Lack of emotional support--she feels like she's doing this on her own, and it's just too much.
Simple exhaustion. She's just too tired and worn out from the abuse to leave.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Beliefs

Parenting, needing a partner for the kids. "A crazy father is better than none at all."
Religious and extended family pressure to keep the family together no matter what.
Duty. "I swore to stay married till death do us part."
Responsibility. It is up to her to work things out and save the relationship.
Belief in the American dream of growing up and living happily ever after.
Identity. Woman are raised to feel they need a partner--even an abusive one--in order to to be complete or accepted by society.
Belief that marriage is forever.
Belief that violence is the way all partners relate (often this woman has come from a violent childhood).
Religious and cultural beliefs.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

LOL, smarmy!


Abs. Do not forget that many men are raped and beaten, too and much goes unreported.

Gender is not lonely where violence is concerned.

We adressed that above but statistics are hard to find.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

One problem at a time, please. Instead of getting sidetracked into talking about "the violence in society in general", which will lead us to minimilize our original issue, violence against women, let's keep this thread devoted entirely to that, and if someone wants to adress the violence by women against men, or the violence by men against other men, or the violence by women against other women; then let's have separate threads for that, OK?

Not to be a bossy betty, but I've seen they way this important issus gets forgotten because people start talkign about something else.

 

[NoJo]

One problem at a time, please. Instead of getting sidetracked into talking about "the violence in society in general", which will lead us to minimilize our original issue, violence against women, let's keep this thread devoted entirely to that, and if someone wants to adress the violence by women against men, or the violence by men against other men, or the violence by women against other women; then let's have separate threads for that, OK?

Not to be a bossy betty, but I've seen they way this important issus gets forgotten because people start talkign about something else.

I think that women's complicit behaviour is probably easier to change than the behavior of their violent male partners. But the problem of human violence is basically a male problem, and therefore affects everyone that interacts with men. This includes other men, and of course children.

 

[CharleyH]

Why Women Stay
The Barriers to Leaving
One of the most frustrating things for people outside a battering relationship is trying to understand why a woman doesn't just leave. A recent letter to Dear Abby on the subject was signed "Tired of Voluntary Victims."

The most important thing to keep in mind is that extreme emotional abuse is always present in domestic violence situations. On average, an abused woman will leave her partner 6-8 times. The reasons they return or stay in the relationship vary from case to case. Some of these include:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Situational Factors

Economic dependence. How can she support herself and the children?
Fear of greater physical danger to herself and her children if they try to leave.
Fear of being hunted down and suffering a worse beating than before.
Survival. Fear that her partner will follow her and kill her if she leaves, often based on real threats by her partner.
Fear of emotional damage to the children.
Fear of losing custody of the children, often based on her partner's remarks.
Lack of alternative housing; she has nowhere else to go.
Lack of job skills; she might not be able to get a job.
Social isolation resulting in lack of support from family and friends.
Social isolation resulting in lack of information about her alternatives.
Lack of understanding from family, friends, police, ministers, etc.
Negative responses from community, police, courts, social workers, etc.
Fear of involvement in the court process; she may have had bad experiences before.
Fear of the unknown. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."
Fear and ambivalence over making formidable life changes.
"Acceptable violence". The violence escalates slowly over time. Living with constant abuse numbs the victim so that she is unable to recognize that she is involved in a set pattern of abuse.
Ties to the community. The children would have to leave their school, she would have to leave all her friends and neighbors behind, etc. For some women it would be like being in the Witness Protection program--she could never have any contact with her old life.
Ties to her home and belongings.
Family pressure; because Mom always said, "I told you it wouldn't work out." or "You made your bed, now you sleep in it."
Fear of her abuser doing something to get her (report her to welfare, call her workplace, etc.)
Unable to use resources because of how they are provided (language problems, disability, homophobia, etc.)
Time needed to plan and prepare to leave.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emotional Factors

Insecurity about being alone, on her own; she's afraid she can't cope with home and children by herself.
Loyalty. "He's sick; if he had a broken leg or cancer--I would stay. This is no different."
Pity. He's worse off than she is; she feels sorry for him.
Wanting to help. "If I stay I can help him get better."
Fear that he will commit suicide if she leaves (often he's told her this).
Denial. "It's really not that bad. Other people have it worse."
Love. Often, the abuser is quite loving and lovable when he is not being abusive.
Love, especially during the "honeymoon" stage; she remembers what he used to be like.
Guilt. She believes--and her partner and the other significant others are quick to agree--that their problems are her fault.
Shame and humiliation in front of the community. "I don't want anyone else to know."
Unfounded optimism that the abuser will change.
Unfounded optimism that things will get better, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Learned helplessness. trying every possible method to change something in our environment, but with no success, so that we eventually expect to fail. Feeling helpless is a logical response to constant resistance to our efforts. This can be seen with prisoners of war, people taken hostage, people living in poverty who cannot get work, etc.
False hope. "He's starting to do things I've been asking for." (counseling, anger management, things she sees as a chance of improvement.)
Guilt. She believes that the violence is caused through some inadequacy of her own (she is often told this); feels as though she deserves it for failing.
Responsibility. She feels as though she only needs to meet some set of vague expectations in order to earn the abuser's approval.
Insecurity over her potential independence and lack of emotional support.
Guilt about the failure of the marriage/relationship.
Demolished self-esteem. "I thought I was too (fat, stupid, ugly, whatever he's been calling her) to leave."
Lack of emotional support--she feels like she's doing this on her own, and it's just too much.
Simple exhaustion. She's just too tired and worn out from the abuse to leave.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Beliefs

Parenting, needing a partner for the kids. "A crazy father is better than none at all."
Religious and extended family pressure to keep the family together no matter what.
Duty. "I swore to stay married till death do us part."
Responsibility. It is up to her to work things out and save the relationship.
Belief in the American dream of growing up and living happily ever after.
Identity. Woman are raised to feel they need a partner--even an abusive one--in order to to be complete or accepted by society.
Belief that marriage is forever.
Belief that violence is the way all partners relate (often this woman has come from a violent childhood).
Religious and cultural beliefs.

Ok ... first I take issue, as always with the word victum from anyone. And I can say it here because Abs and Cloudy, at least know me and my experiences enough, but they also know I TRY always I bring them around to the positive. Why do we think we are victums? Should we not take power in our experiences - good or bad ? Maybe culture makes us think we are weak? Certainly, law tells us we are bad. We are not.

Y'all post your opinions here, no? So ... you must be strong enough to tell? Conceding to victimization or survivourship continues to give power over those or things that have none in the first place.

Grabbing your life? Being a live'r? Now there is something no statistic can tell you.

 

[CharleyH]

Our society admires 'strength' and dislikes 'weakness'. So the 'weak' are always looked down upon.

The weak allow themselves to be looked down upon ... no?

 

[Alex756]

The weak allow themselves to be looked down upon ... no?

A person has no control over what others think of them, only what they think of themselves.

I don't 'allow' anyone to have an opinion of me, they are independent creatures and if they want to think I am pathetic and weak that is their right, if I think they are self righteous bastrads who belong in that 10th circle of hell, that's my right.

The important part is what we each think of ourselves, and in the case of the original topic of domestic violence (reguardless of gender), in many cases through the emotional abuse the people on the receiving end, whatever you want to call that, are sufferingin a way that makes it hard for them to get out.

-Alex

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Have you ever been on the receiving end of a bully's sharp tongue or strong arm, Charley?

It's easy to blame the victim for "allowing" their tormentors to bully or abuse them, but it's easier said than done!

I read once that a judge claimed that it was the feminism's fault that so many women got raped these days, because feminism had caused women to leave the safe haven of their homes and go out into the world to get education, jobs, and other such nonsense.

 

[Guest]

The weak allow themselves to be looked down upon ... no?

(From Houghton-Mifflin)

vic·tim (vktm)

NOUN:

One who is harmed or killed by another: a victim of a mugging.
A living creature slain and offered as a sacrifice during a religious rite.
One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition: victims of war.
A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.
A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of: the victim of a cruel hoax.


Charley - I realize you are once again playing devil's advocate. That, or pulling the wings off helpless flies.

Just because you've once been a victim doesn't mean you are always a victim.

But that is what you are called when you suffer injury at the hands of another. A victim.

Pretending the word doesn't apply is unrealistic.

 

[Penelope Street]

The weak allow themselves to be looked down upon ... no?

Hi Charley,

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Are you perhaps addressing the issue that it's inappropraite for anyone to assume someone is weak simply because they've been the target of abuse?

 

[LadyJeanne]

My whole point in telling this sad story is that an abuser doesn't look like a monster, and chances are he's someone that you think is a damn good guy, treats his wife well, treats his family well. Don't be fooled. They're very accomplished actors. So much so that when you do try to get away from them, what little support you have trickles away because you must be "crazy to leave such a good man."

It's insidious, it goes on constantly, and it's everywhere.

It's in my family...my sweet cousin suffers with this from within her gilded cage. No one in my family thinks of it as abuse. They think he is jealous and controlling, but many men in our culture are jealous and controlling. They are raised to believe their needs are more significant than hers. Or that they know best. Or something. No one even notices. I keep trying. She doesn't ask for, or accept offers of help. She is resigned.

 

[CharleyH]

A person has no control over what others think of them, only what they think of themselves.

-Alex

A person has a lot of control over what people think of them, if they are willing to face themselves.

 

[CharleyH]

Hi Charley,

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Are you perhaps addressing the issue that it's inappropraite for anyone to assume someone is weak simply because they've been the target of abuse?

Basically, yes, Penny, but more to say, one is weak as a matter of self-observation, not because they are, but they believe they are, and it is not because someone else tells them so. In otherwords: A person is weak because they believe they are, not because someone tells them they are ...

 

[Liar]

The weak allow themselves to be looked down upon ... no?

Since a whole bunch of peeps have replied to this, I ain't gonna.

Oh wait, I'm gonna.

You confuse weak with "weak". As in, what others precieve as weakness, and therefore look down upon.

A person has a lot of control over what people think of them, if they are willing to face themselves.

You may be little miss Über Control Of Any Given Situation. But the rest of us mortals aren't. I don't practice mind control, only control of my own Face and the shady interface of communication peer to peer, where no exact sciance and no exact control apply.

On the other hand, I don't really care if people look down on me. That's their loss.

 

[Penelope Street]

Basically, yes, Penny, but more to say, one is weak as a matter of self-observation, not because they are, but they believe they are, and it is not because someone else tells them so. In otherwords: A person is weak because they believe they are, not because someone tells them they are ...

I thought it must be something like that. Unfortunately, some do believe they are weak because someone else, often the abuser, says so.

I fail to see how a person can control what anyone else thinks about anything, but certainly the way we carry ourselves has a bearing on how others perceive us. Is that why you objected to 'vicitm', particularly when the victim describes herself as such, because it can carry the connotation that the abused party is helpless, which may or may not be the case?

 

[CharleyH]

Have you ever been on the receiving end of a bully's sharp tongue or strong arm, Charley?

It's easy to blame the victim for "allowing" their tormentors to bully or abuse them, but it's easier said than done!

I read once that a judge claimed that it was the feminism's fault that so many women got raped these days, because feminism had caused women to leave the safe haven of their homes and go out into the world to get education, jobs, and other such nonsense.

I have never made any clouded remarks on my rape, or any abuse, or bad experience I have ever had, for that matter, Svenska. I am as open as pie. So ask away. I do not blame people. I do, however, take issue with the word "victim".

 

[maggot420]

for cloudy
and any other woman that finds herself in such a horrible situation.
I wish I had something constructive to add...and maybe this isn't, however,
A few years ago I found myself teaching karate to underpriveledged kids which opened my eyes to alot of domestic horrors which led to teaching a self defence class for women which opened my eyes even further. Like domestic abuse, sexual assault statistics are staggering.
Thank you Abs for starting this theread and opening my eyes to yet again another aspect of violence in our society.
But perhaps what works for women who have or will be sexually assaulted will also work for women who are abused. I urge all women to find a local self defence class that they can take for two reasons. The first is obvious; if you are able to defend yourself against an attacker, you stand a much better chance of survival, and the second reason (and even more important) is that these courses also increase your self confidence and self esteem. It's very enpowering to know that you can take care of yourself and those you love.
I suspect that in cases of domestic abuse, the latter is of utmost importance in not only esacaping such situations but also in preventing them from occuring in the first place.

 

[CharleyH]

I fail to see how a person can control what anyone else thinks about anything, but certainly the way we carry ourselves has a bearing on how others perceive us. Is that why you objected to 'vicitm', particularly when the victim describes herself as such, because it can carry the connotation that the abused party is helpless, which may or may not be the case?

A peson can control how another views them, by not giving any time to it. Period. Why would I believe a person who says I am stupid when I know I am not? Why should I believe someone who tells me I will get no one other than them, when I know I can? I was there, I know all the bull shit, and all the abuses, and I threw it out the window one day and locked the door - literally. Not to say others are weak, just to say that thinking oneself a victim is weaker than one could be.

 

[CharleyH]

(From Houghton-Mifflin)

vic·tim (vktm)



Charley - I realize you are once again playing devil's advocate. That, or pulling the wings off helpless flies.

Just because you've once been a victim doesn't mean you are always a victim.

But that is what you are called when you suffer injury at the hands of another. A victim.

Pretending the word doesn't apply is unrealistic.

No devil's ad this time, love. A victum is not necessarily a Websters look up. When you suffer? You pick it up and move on. I realise that not everyone is so strong, but I also realise that all people's strength is not realised even if they have it in them? So, what as friends do we do? Say sorry? Or help them get it?

 

[maggot420]

No devil's ad this time, love. A victum is not necessarily a Websters look up. When you suffer? You pick it up and move on. I realise that not everyone is so strong, but I also realise that all people's strength is not realised even if they have it in them? So, what as friends do we do? Say sorry? Or help them get it?

I know how to help them get it

 

[CharleyH]

I know how to help them get it

Well you are a maggot so

 

[maggot420]

Well you are a maggot so

which is why i wriggle so

 

[CharleyH]

which is why i wriggle so

yes I can see you squirming.