plausible human sexual behavior

[big_cane_sugar]

I've been wondering about this kind of thing for a long time. Given all the wildness that happens in real life, what do we mean when we say a story is not realistic?

Also, if we're portraying some of that wildness in our stories, should we try to make it seem more plausible to readers who say it's not realistic? If we want to do that, how do we do it?

 

[Rob_Royale]

should we try to make it seem more plausible

Why not? I have done stories where people behaved as normal people would, and received great feedback. People enjoy a story where nothing too LIT happened. A husband and wife are out and have an adventure and don't fuck anyone else, having a great time on their own. It's a fun story and readers liked it.

There is room for everything in erotica and readers who will appreciate it.

 

[THBGato]

I think at the core of this question is: who are we writing for?

should we try to make it seem more plausible to readers who say it's not realistic? (My emphasis.)

You 'should' write what you want to: if readers are complaining it's not realistic they should read something else and/or write their own.

However...

If we want to do that, how do we do it?

It's all about build up, in my view. We need to see what is motivating the characters. If we understand why characters are behaving as they do, then we buy into it. It becomes (more) plausible. I write a lot of straight-girl-falling-for-lesbian stories: I go to great pains to show that process so when that first kiss happens, it seems (I hope) to be the obvious thing to happen rather than totally out of character. All the questioning, the friendship, the flirtation, the doubt, the jealousy, etc.

That's probably not the only way to do it, but it's one way.

 

[metropolinational]

It's all about build up, in my view. We need to see what is motivating the characters

this!
And as a writer, there is nothing as satisfying as developing your characters to the point that they do what they do, almost whether you want them to or not!
Some people will argue with you, always, but that's ok. However, if tons of good readers are complaining, that's your sign you have a problem. You might find you have betrayed your character a little bit.

 

[RetroFan]

I've been wondering about this kind of thing for a long time. Given all the wildness that happens in real life, what do we mean when we say a story is not realistic?

Also, if we're portraying some of that wildness in our stories, should we try to make it seem more plausible to readers who say it's not realistic? If we want to do that, how do we do it?

I think most readers are capable of accepting stories that probably wouldn't happen in real life, are a bit far-fetched or which have fantasy themes like time travel, body swaps, alternate realities etc.

From my experience what takes readers out of a story (or movie or TV show) really fast is unrealistic reactions and behaviour of characters. As an example, say there was a Geek Pride contest story about a nerdy first year college guy in the present day who creates a time machine and travels back in time to 1960 where he meets his grandmother's super-hot sister (his great-aunt) at age 18, one thing leads to another and they end up becoming erotic lovers. Time travel (from what we know) is impossible, incest a bit far-fetched and the hot girl falling for the nerd could be a bit of a cliche, but if written well enough the readers will accept these.

However if there was a scene where they are having sex in the girl's bedroom and her parents (obviously his great-grandparents) come home unexpectedly and walk in on them, are completely swell with the whole situation, tell them to have fun but be sure to use a condom then close the door and leave them to get on with it, this reaction by the parents to their 18-year-old daughter 'entertaining' an unknown young man in her bedroom is completely unrealistic especially in this era, and will lose readers at that point.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sometimes "unrealistic" means "the human body cannot physically do that" and sometimes it means "I expect stories to be tailored to my preferences and this one wasn't". One has to figure out the difference from context.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Sometimes figuring out what the vast majority of people think is realistic human sexual behavior is hard. Like realistic for what country? What time period? What part of the country?

Like, there's this online smut manga I was reading, and it was making a lot of people in the comments uncomfortable because the girl kept saying, "No, stop, don't!" and the guy with her didn't listen.

A guy chimed in to say that he went and lived in Japan for a few years, and while there he wound up dating a girl for a little while. The first time they went to have sex, just as it was getting good, she started screaming those words, so he immediately stopped. Then she explained that the better it gets the louder she's going to yell no. He was too uncomfortable with that to adapt to it though, and she got huffy every time he obeyed her. So they wound up breaking up over it.

I'm not sure how realistic that is for most of Japan, but it does go to display that humans, are weird, culture, makes our sex lives even weirder. What's realistic to you, might not be realistic to someone else. Do your best to tailor it to the society that you're writing about, and then don't sweat it. (Ya know, as long as it's anatomically probable.)

 

[Britva415]

Given all the wildness that happens in real life, what do we mean when we say a story is not realistic?

Usually it means the author didn't provide a plausible motivation. It's not so much about what the specific act or behavior is, though you might have to work harder for some.

Other than physical impossibilities, almost anything at all can be made plausible with a good enough lead-in and characterization.

 

[AchtungNight]

Depends on the story. My Celebrity story “Passion: Hollywood Nights” where Erika Christensen has sex with her real life husband is my least popular fanfic. My Incest story “Stephanie Opens Up” has parents aware of their daughters’ casual lesbian relationship and practicing “willful ignorance”. Clearly, readers aren’t into realism in either case. However I should note that I try to write most of my stories to seem like they could realistically happen in an alternate reality, and most of my fans seem to enjoy that. Heh.

NF- I don’t blame your friend for being unnerved by that behavior. I hope it’s not endemic to Japanese culture. I don’t like it either.

 

[TheLobster]

"No, stop, don't!"

See, this is because unlike English, which uses the subject-verb-object order, Japanese does subject-object-verb. Therefore you have to swap the last two words and then you get:

No, don’t stop!

which removes the confusion about the girl’s true feelings.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Also, if we're portraying some of that wildness in our stories, should we try to make it seem more plausible to readers who say it's not realistic?

I’ve had the experience of sex scenes that were based on actual events being called unrealistic (even when character motivation is diligently provided). And I’ve had batshit crazy stuff that I totally made up lead to comments about it being believable .

It’s almost as if we should take comments with a grain of salt.

Oh, and related to realism, I’ve had pushback about my characters using condoms (including them sometimes rupturing) and having sexual health tests. Whatever you write, someone will want something different.

 

[NuclearFairy]

See, this is because unlike English, which uses the subject-verb-object order, Japanese does subject-object-verb. Therefore you have to swap the last two words and then you get:

which removes the confusion about the girl’s true feelings.

That would make sense if the words had ever been used in the same sentence, but they rarely are. It's extremely common in east Asian erotic Josei (Josei being comics aimed at women in their late 20s-mid 40s) for the woman to protest the better something feels. It can't all be the translators making the same exact translation error.

I could speculate why, and I have in the past, but that wasn't the point of bringing it up. The point is, what's realistic is wholly dependent on what culture the people having sex are from. So someone from a different culture may read something that is wholly realistic for the writer and go, "That doesn't make sense."

 

[TheLobster]

That would make sense if the words had ever been used in the same sentence, but they rarely are. It's extremely common in east Asian erotic Josei (Josei being comics aimed at women in their late 20s-mid 40s) for the woman to protest the better something feels. It can't all be the translators making the same exact translation error.

Alright, hint taken: I shall endeavor to make my humor a little moister next time.

 

[Belegon]

I've had a couple of things actually happen to me in my life that I would barely hesitate to put in the file drawer of "unrealistic." Both sexual and non-sexual. I had a car break down in North Platte, Nebraska and force me to stay overnight in a small roadside motel and ended up having the only threesome I ever had where I was the "guest star" when the couple staying in the room next door invited me over to their room. Shocked the hell out of me and was definitely something straight out of penthouse forum. Never had seen them before and have never seen them since. Quite "unrealistic" in my opinion, but I know that it really did happen. Somewhere I even have a picture of the two of them that I took, not thinking it would be the kind of memory it is now. that was almost 35 years ago... I barely remember most of the experience.
and that's only one of several "unrealistic" things I have experienced. I think if you live long enough, you will have at least one thing happen that seems unbelievable, whether its as unusual as that one of mine was or just something likelooking up at the last second at a ballgame and snatching a foul ball one-handed out of the air when you are not the athletic kind of a person who would seem to be capable of making such a grab.

It's the unexpected that is the real spice of life. Makes each day worth getting out of bed.

(BTW, I have attended somewhere close to 3000 professional baseball games over the years. <sounds like a lot even to me, but I had season tickets for a long time and thats 81 games a year.> I have never caught a foul ball. Not even once. I leaned over a railing and had one hit me right in the palm once and I fumbled it. And I played catcher for almost twenty years , man and boy.)

 

[alohadave]

As an example, say there was a Geek Pride contest story about a nerdy first year college guy in the present day who creates a time machine and travels back in time to 1960 where he meets his grandmother's super-hot sister (his great-aunt) at age 18, one thing leads to another and they end up becoming erotic lovers. Time travel (from what we know) is impossible, incest a bit far-fetched and the hot girl falling for the nerd could be a bit of a cliche, but if written well enough the readers will accept these.

However if there was a scene where they are having sex in the girl's bedroom and her parents (obviously his great-grandparents) come home unexpectedly and walk in on them, are completely swell with the whole situation, tell them to have fun but be sure to use a condom then close the door and leave them to get on with it, this reaction by the parents to their 18-year-old daughter 'entertaining' an unknown young man in her bedroom is completely unrealistic especially in this era, and will lose readers at that point.

This gave me an idea for a story.

 

[Britva415]

It's funny how "realism" has this connotation of "common." The thing about randomness is that unlikely things happen surprisingly often. No particular unlikely thing happens randomly a lot, but a variety of unlikely things happen randomly a lot. So when one happens (or is written about), there is a cognitive dissonance which says "That's so unlikely!" and yields a feeling of implausibility.

 

[SimonDoom]

The principle I apply here is verisimilitude. True plausibility is not that important. Neither is realism. But within the terms of the universe that you've created for your story, you have to make it just plausible enough to pull your reader along the journey. So pay attention to the character's motivation. Don't treat characters like puppets who can be infinitely manipulated for a particular effect.

The corollary principle I apply here is "not too much magic." Readers will accept one piece of outrageous magic -- the magic pill that makes a nerd suddenly attractive to women. But if you throw too much magic at them, you'll lose them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I've been wondering about this kind of thing for a long time. Given all the wildness that happens in real life, what do we mean when we say a story is not realistic?

Also, if we're portraying some of that wildness in our stories, should we try to make it seem more plausible to readers who say it's not realistic? If we want to do that, how do we do it?

It doesn't matter what you write. If someone doesn't believe it could happen, then they'll bash you with a comment saying; "That's not realistic."

I've received those kinds of negative reactions to stories, and I KNOW the people and situations which spurred my writing about it.

Many people just can't grasp the concept that other people don't think like they do.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Often "realistic" means "within my realm of experience. @Belegon 's example is a great one. It would be VERY easy to dismiss that as "unrealistic" yet it has probably happened thousands of times to various people.
It's an interesting logical fallacy, akin to "I don't know anyone who has won the lottery, ergo, no one ever wins the lottery."

I have a male friend who lost his virginity as part of a MFF threesome. If I used that in a story I'm sure a certain segment of the readership would dismiss it as "unrealistic".
Somebody wins the lottery, crazy things happen, truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[anthrodisiac]

"Human sexual behavior?"

Am I even qualified to comment?

Crazy things happen all the time. Some dog (real dog, not anthro dog) will get lost, travel halfway across the country, and somehow wind up back with its family. Unlikely? Hell yes. Outside the realm of possibility? Clearly not.

For Lit, I think a lot of readers' suspension of disbelief is probably higher than someone reading Literary Fiction. If you're writing pure stroker, you just need a flimsy premise. If you're writing something more substantial, beyond sexually gratifying the reader, then you start heading into territory where justifications need to take place.

One of my core principals is that characters exist outside the framework of the story. Even minor characters have whole lives the reader will never know about, but will impact their decisions, interactions, and level of plausibility with regard to the story. If the concern is that a character would "never do that," then you need to set up the scaffolding to support the character making whatever leap might be considered "fantastical." As several people mentioned, motivation is key. Why does anybody do anything? And especially why does somebody do something that seems outlandish? These questions are just as key for main characters as they are for any random character who shows up and has a single line, glance, or interaction with the story.

As someone who writes fairly, um, unlikely erotica, the frameworks have to be established within in-world logic. Key factor in fantasy and sci-fi is making sure that you have consistent world logic. That applies to different species as well, similar as it would for another culture. An alien race probably isn't going to have the same thoughts on sex as a modern-day Icelandic woman. (I mean, they might, but probably not. And no, I don't know why I picked Iceland.) A race of creatures that view non-monogomous sex are probably not going to be involved in a lot of threesomes. If they are, you need to explain why those three individuals are going against a strong moral line.

So when someone says a story isn't realistic, they're usually getting at the core mechanics, framework, character motivation, and in-world logic that drives the level of consistency and cohesion behind the choices characters make, or in how the world is constructed.

And other times it's just, "That seems highly unlikely." Which you can't do much about if you've put in all the motivations and logic and everything and someone still doesn't buy it. Some people have a harder time suspending belief than others. Them's the breaks.

 

[Whanmore]

what do we mean when we say a story is not realistic?

I always think Dialogue. Ill read a story where a college girl is like

"You are eighteen now and surely are interested in women's breasts"

And it's like no one talks like that. Even with the Wildness in the world there is sill a nuanced language of subltly when it comes to things like sex. So you can have an 8-person orgy but it still needs to feel like it could have realistically come about.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

I'm less worried about what people say about my stories than about my own personal craft. Also just interested in the concept of "plausibility."

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Wooden dialogue is the killer for me - it prevents me from seeing characters as plausible people, which in turn means I can't care about or believe anything they get up to.

I mostly write realistic stories, which most commenters appreciate. One story has two young women going to a women's gay sauna night. "I know this great late-night bar. Only you have to take all your clothes off." I put in some sentences about A having found the wide range of naked bodies had cured her own body insecurity overnight, and B (slim and beautiful) looking round and relaxing about her own body, along with descriptions of the various naked women around. It's based on my own experience there, but I intentionally explained how the protagonists got over themselves.

Some guy still said it sounded implausible - where was the fear about being naked in public, the angst? I suspect that translates as I didn't fulfil the kink he wanted.

 

[Dodola]

Some readers just don't like the behavior that your characters engage in, even if it's realistic, and will respond negatively, indicating that you're sending bad messages through characters who make poor, but very real decisions.
You can't please everyone with every story.

 

[nice90sguy]

I think if you live long enough, you will have at least one thing happen that seems unbelievable

I've spent most of my life in readiness for that "did that really happen" experience - going with the flow, serendipity, whatever. I've had a few, but I'm still ready for more.