Philando Castile

[richard_daily]

This thread started out all about race. It's always been all about race in this incident.

Idiot.

Ishmael

To me, this is about a lawful CCL holder, who was shot by the police, and who wasn't involved in any sort of threatening behavior or language.

To me, this is about the failure of the police to engage with a legal CCL holder in a professional and effective manner.

CCL holders are not professionals. We do have to make sure we're clear with law enforcement, but it's law enforcement's job to effectively determine threat level. In this case, by all accounts, Castile was NOT a threat to the officer.

The officer engaged in the use of deadly force without cause.

That's what this is about, for me.

If you want it to be about race for you... then that speaks more to your character, or lack of it, than anything else.

 

[Liar]

That is why, as a CCW myself, the exact words you say to a police officer in an encounter are crucial. As I posted before, what a CCW holder should do in a traffice stop is put your hands on top of the steering wheel, don't move, and say 'Officer, for your safety and mine, I want you to know I have a permit to carry, and am carrying, how do you wish to proceed?' Then follow the officers instructions to the letter.

Because life has a teleprompter, and you can expect people to act perfectly on cue, hear and understand every instruction without fail and never hesitate, or make a mistake in a stressful and unfamiliar situation. And death is clearly a suitable consequence for such a faux pas.

 

[miles]

No, the details are in a new study just released. It basically shows that blacks are 20% LESS likely to be shot in potentially deadly encounters than a white man.

Racial Bias in Police Shootings.

Ishmael

They have to play the victim card. The article destroys their narrative, but they won't care.

Is it unreasonable to expect black leadership to have the courage to stand up and admit they are wrong?

If they don't it's proof the Big Lie must be preserved - regardless of the consequences.

All they have to do is ring the bell and the lemmings fall right into line.

 

[richard_daily]

They have to play the victim card. The article destroys their narrative, but they won't care.

Is it unreasonable to expect black leadership to have the courage to stand up and admit they are wrong?

If they don't it's proof the Big Lie must be preserved - regardless of the consequences.

What were the consequences for Philando Castile?

 

[Lancecastor]

And death is clearly a suitable consequence for such a faux pas.

If you're going to carry a gun and not obey the instructions of a police officer, the results shouldn't surprise anyone.

I used to do some work for Jody Scheckter's Firearms Training Systems, which builds firearms training simulators.

Anyone who has had firearms training knows what happens when you make a mistake or don't follow protocol.

 

[Liar]

If you're going to carry a gun and not obey the instructions of a police officer, the results shouldn't surprise anyone.

Or if you don't carry one but somebody thinks you do. Cuz that also happens.

 

[richard_daily]

Or if you don't carry one but somebody thinks you do. Cuz that also happens.

Castile had the right to carry a gun.

The police didn't have a right to engage in deadly force simply because Castile was exercising his rights.

 

[MNGuy]

Because life has a teleprompter, and you can expect people to act perfectly on cue, hear and understand every instruction without fail and never hesitate, or make a mistake in a stressful and unfamiliar situation. And death is clearly a suitable consequence for such a faux pas.

When you are carrying, you better be more prepared than the average citizen in a law enforcement stop, it is part of the responsibility assumed when you are carrying.

You don't have to be perfect and on cue. If you aren't moving or becoming a threat, the officer will repeat his instructions. If you do not understand, say calmly 'I don't understand, can you repeat that.' Even if you understand and are going to comply, it is recommended to repeat back to the officer what he instructed, and state you are going to comply, then narrate as you are complying. Such as:

Officer: I am going to open your car door, please keep your hand raised and exit the vehicle, then turn around and face the vehicle and put you hands on the roof.
Citizen: I understand. I am going to allow you to open the car door. I will keep my hands raised as I exit the vehicle and then face the vehicle and put my hands on the roof of the car.

Sounds long and overly detailed. But I would rather go through the routine than get shot over a misunderstanding. Death is not a suitable consequence of a faux pas, but we don't know exactly what happened in this case prior to the shooting, but something happened that made this officer perceive a threat. I sure hope it doesn't come down to a poor choice of words by Philando, because if it did, the cop will be prosecuted.

Now my encounter was never taken to this level. But I was prepared to do so if necessary. In my encounter, the cop asked where my firearms was, I informed him it was on my right hand side of my waist at the 3:00 o'clock position, and he just said don't put my hand by the firearm. I said okay, and it was fine after that.

 

[miles]

Some people act like a dog who starts growling, barking, and becoming aggressive when they see a person, a car, or another dog approaching them. A dog trainer told me they are really acting out of fear.

Just sayin'.

 

[Lancecastor]

Or if you don't carry one but somebody thinks you do. Cuz that also happens.

And when it does, you do as you are told.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Did the officers tell you not to move?

Nope. Not that I recall. However it is good to use common sense and tel them before you move...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Murdered?

Did I miss the trial?

Exact wording is important when you are a CCW.

I don't know where the firearm was, some say in his waistband, some say on his lap, the cop says he saw it, but at least we know it wasn't drawn, thanks for clearing that up.

Cops react to guns, we had another officer murdered last year on a routine traffic stop. So when a cop says don't move, become a statue.

Doesn't matter if he drew or not if his hand moved towards it. Someone is playing word games with you.

 

[Liar]

And when it does, you do as you are told.

To the best of your abilities, provided you fully understood the instructions. If not, or if your abilities somehow prevent it, you're dead, and that's apparently hunky-dory.

 

[Lancecastor]

Castile had the right to carry a gun.

The police didn't have a right to engage in deadly force simply because Castile was exercising his rights.

Maybe you should saddle up and go test your hypothesis in the southern states.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Yup, that's the nub of it.

The rest is the usual GB circle jerk.



I'm more interested in the forces behind the growth of BLM.

Is it truly organic... or funded by American politics... or is it outside influence seeking to weaken the USA from the inside?

I keep reading the Soros is funneling money into it directly and indirectly from other umbrella groups that he funds. I tend to believe that because it fits a pattern of behavior where he loves to destabilize countries in order to manipulate currencies and move them more towards Socialism.

 

[Lancecastor]

To the best of your abilities, provided you fully understood the instructions. If not, or if your abilities somehow prevent it, you're dead, and that's apparently hunky-dory.

Yes, your hypothetical example could happen.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No, the details are in a new study just released. It basically shows that blacks are 20% LESS likely to be shot in potentially deadly encounters than a white man.

Racial Bias in Police Shootings.

Ishmael

I talked about that study which is posted in Vat's thread and was completely ignored. There are those of us trying to follow the facts as they slowly roll out and those who know that The Story is true and if you do not accept The Story then you are a denier, a liar, an idiot, a racist...,

 

[richard_daily]

When you are carrying, you better be more prepared than the average citizen in a law enforcement stop, it is part of the responsibility assumed when you are carrying.

You don't have to be perfect and on cue. If you aren't moving or becoming a threat, the officer will repeat his instructions. If you do not understand, say calmly 'I don't understand, can you repeat that.' Even if you understand and are going to comply, it is recommended to repeat back to the officer what he instructed, and state you are going to comply, then narrate as you are complying. Such as:

Officer: I am going to open your car door, please keep your hand raised and exit the vehicle, then turn around and face the vehicle and put you hands on the roof.
Citizen: I understand. I am going to allow you to open the car door. I will keep my hands raised as I exit the vehicle and then face the vehicle and put my hands on the roof of the car.

Sounds long and overly detailed. But I would rather go through the routine than get shot over a misunderstanding. Death is not a suitable consequence of a faux pas, but we don't know exactly what happened in this case prior to the shooting, but something happened that made this officer perceive a threat. I sure hope it doesn't come down to a poor choice of words by Philando, because if it did, the cop will be prosecuted.

Now my encounter was never taken to this level. But I was prepared to do so if necessary. In my encounter, the cop asked where my firearms was, I informed him it was on my right hand side of my waist at the 3:00 o'clock position, and he just said don't put my hand by the firearm. I said okay, and it was fine after that.

There is no indication that the police officer asked where the pistol was, or gave any further instructions. At the first mention of a weapon, the officer drew his firearm and fired 4 times.

Those are not the actions of a professional police officer.

 

[JohnnySavage]

You know who else told the citizens to just do as they are told?

Hitler, that's who!

 

[richard_daily]

Nope. Not that I recall. However it is good to use common sense and tel them before you move...

Uncle Tom has spoken.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If you're going to carry a gun and not obey the instructions of a police officer, the results shouldn't surprise anyone.

I used to do some work for Jody Scheckter's Firearms Training Systems, which builds firearms training simulators.

Anyone who has had firearms training knows what happens when you make a mistake or don't follow protocol.

...

There are, however, two sides to most stories including the shooting in Ferguson that spawned Black Lives Matter in the first place. Here is a video in which a Black civil rights activist, who was previously highly critical of police, shot a "gentle giant" like Michael Brown in a simulated use of force exercise. His decision was correct because the other man was reaching for him and, even though he was unarmed, he could have taken the officer's weapon. Anybody who advances on a drawn gun is so malicious or deranged that one can reasonably assume one's life to be in danger.

The activist and another participant were also "killed" by a suspect whose hands they allowed to go out of sight for a couple of seconds, and the same thing happened to me during a gun training simulation; the aggressor had a knife behind his back. This Facebook video meanwhile shows actual surveillance videos of criminals attacking police with guns and other weapons, and so quickly that the officers often cannot react in time.

An instructor at FrontSight proved that the bad guy can shoot you while you are telling him to drop a pistol he is holding down by his side. He not only raised and fired the weapon before somebody could get past "Drop…," he hit the target in front of the backstop. That means that a real criminal with equivalent skills would have shot the law-abiding citizen or police officer that had ordered him to drop his weapon. A typical thug is not going to have equivalent skills, but nobody is obliged to bet his or her life on the proposition that their thug is typical. At about 1:55 in the Facebook video, an above-average thug draws a pistol from his waistband and shoots a police officer who already has his weapon in his hand. The outcome is totally contrary to the well-known adage that it is suicide to try to draw a weapon while the other person has one in his hand, and suggests that the officer should have shot the other man the instant his hand moved toward his pocket or waistband.

...

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/07/democrats_endorse_blm_and_pigs_in_a_blanket.html

Frontsight: https://www.frontsight.com

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

So, cops are NAZIs...

 

[eyerami]

Because life has a teleprompter, and you can expect people to act perfectly on cue, hear and understand every instruction without fail and never hesitate, or make a mistake in a stressful and unfamiliar situation. And death is clearly a suitable consequence for such a faux pas.

Yeah, that's what Darwinism dictates. Why do you have an issue with evolution all of the sudden, wannabe?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Funny how that is a one-way street yet again.

The suspect is human who made a mistake.

The cop is an animal who executed him.

​

 

[MNGuy]

There is no indication that the police officer asked where the pistol was, or gave any further instructions. At the first mention of a weapon, the officer drew his firearm and fired 4 times.

Those are not the actions of a professional police officer.

What is the source for this.

All I have heard is that Philando said he was carrying, exactly what he said is unclear, somewhere the cop perceived Philando as a threat, the cop was yelling in the video he told him not to move, and apparently Philando moved.

The exact circumstances are the crux of the case, and no one in the public knows it yet.

If the cop drew and fired four times at the first mention of a weapon, then that is not only unprofessional, but criminal as well.

We just have to wait for facts. But I will agree it doesn't look good for the cop right now.