Penn State Report

[PennLady]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an article on the report on PSU released today by the committee led by Louis Freeh.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120712_Report_due_today_on_Penn_State__Sandusky.html

If you go to www.philly.com, it is the main story and there is a link on the main page to the full text of the report.

This is not about the Sandusky case per se; it is about the actions, or inactions, of Penn State in responding (or not) to various allegations.

 

[lovecraft68]

This is going to be very damning to Paterno's legacy.

By the time its over, even the biggest Kool-aid drinkers are going to have a hard time defending him.

In a sense its sad, it seems like these days it really is hard to find a true icon with "no stains on their jacket" as infamous Providence Mayor Buddy Cianci said just before the feds nailed him.

Another part of me, the one that believes what comes around goes around, is glad to see it. If Paterno covered this shit up and continued to allow these boys to get hurt then he deserves to be remembered for it, not canonized as a near saint.

Just an ugly situation.

Something that bugs me a bot though. I'm not a huge follower of college sports, in fact I abhor them for this reason (the money involved lets anyone who is part of a big time program get away with everything from rape to assualt to apparently pedophilia with impunity)

Now some school like Miami and there was a couple of basketball teams that were banned from playing for entire seasons over things like breaking recruiting rules and bribing recruits etc....

If this ends up the way it looks and that this was a broad cover-up wouldn't it seem fair to lay some severe punishments on this program?

 

[PennLady]

I've only read some of the executive summary and the time line of events, but even that much does not look good for any of the principals involved. I understand it's worse as you read the specifics.

No one is perfect, and that's okay. I think what really bothers people is when people lie and/or cover up. I'm not saying anything that happened at Penn State was okay, because of course it isn't, but if just one of these people had taken action, if just one had given a sincere apology, some of this would be different.

 

[desertslave]

I think it's mostly a sin of arrogance and vanity, and I strongly believe that PSU is only one of many situations. The only difference is that this was outed because of a (more recently) peripheral person who was a predator both on children and on his prestigious acquaintances.

I'm NOT defending anyone, but I think there are many people in their campus ivory towers across the country who would choose to do the very same things to protect their school's image over their sense of doing what is 'right.'

 

[Hubs_in_hose]

If ever there was a case for program suspension this is it.

I am a HUGE fan of sports. NFL, College Football, MLB, College Baseball, Golf, NHL, Tennis, you name it I probably watch it. There have been problems at other programs (cheating, breaking NCAA rules, legal issues by players) but this is such a huge issue there will be a message sent by the way they deal with PSU.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its the culture of faggot worship.

 

[someoneyouknow]

If this ends up the way it looks and that this was a broad cover-up wouldn't it seem fair to lay some severe punishments on this program?

The difference between what happened here and what happened at say Miami, USC or Ohio, is that this had nothing to do with the actual game itself or rules violations, this had to do with something off the field unrelated (directly) to the program itself.

In the case of Ohio, there was a coverup of known NCAA rules violations by the players and coaches. Same with USC and Miami. This was about a coach doing something unrelated to the game and others, apparently, covering it up.

However, I had to compete under NCAA rules and there is the catch-all rule about your conduct so in theory, that rule could be used to penalize PSU.

Regardless, it's a bad situation no matter how you slice it.

P.S. Hey Corbett, what excuse are you going to use now about not prosecuting Sandusky when you investigated him? The same one you used in not prosecuting your fellow Republicans in the BonusGate scandal?

 

[bashfullyshameless]

From the report: "Four of the most powerful people at the Pennsylvania State University - President Graham B. Spanier, Senior VP-Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno - failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child's identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower on the night of February 9, 2001."

All those guys should be in jail. It's a shame Paterno died before he was confronted with this publicly. Almost as disgusting as this is the fact that yes, there will be people who will say that his statue should remain out there in front of the stadium even despite all this.

 

[PennLady]

I've seen a couple of articles that call for blowing up the Penn State football program, either for a few years or for good. Allen Barra has a column about this on Salon.com and I'm sure there are and will be others.

It may be true that this doesn't violate NCAA laws, but the school did violate state laws did violate laws including the Clery Act (regarding the reporting of sexual crimes and named for a woman who was killed at Lehigh University, my alma mater). And if the head of the NCAA program is advocating this kind of stuff, it can't sit well with whatever the NCAA rules are.

It does make you wonder how many similar situations of undue influence exist in other football and basketball "factory" schools. I don't just mean accusations against players, but ongoing crimes that are ignored or hushed up.

 

[lovecraft68]

The difference between what happened here and what happened at say Miami, USC or Ohio, is that this had nothing to do with the actual game itself or rules violations, this had to do with something off the field unrelated (directly) to the program itself.

In the case of Ohio, there was a coverup of known NCAA rules violations by the players and coaches. Same with USC and Miami. This was about a coach doing something unrelated to the game and others, apparently, covering it up.

However, I had to compete under NCAA rules and there is the catch-all rule about your conduct so in theory, that rule could be used to penalize PSU.

Regardless, it's a bad situation no matter how you slice it.

P.S. Hey Corbett, what excuse are you going to use now about not prosecuting Sandusky when you investigated him? The same one you used in not prosecuting your fellow Republicans in the BonusGate scandal?

I beg to differ, this had everything to do with the football program. Sandusky was a coach. Paterno who covered it up was the head coach. Why did they look the other way? because Sandusky was a coach of a winning program, this is all about the corruption of money and sports.

Yes, it would be a shame for the students to suffer, but this is all on the football program.

 

[sr71plt]

It doesn't have EVERYTHING to do with the football program--not as EVERYTHING as the programs at the schools someoneyouknow specified. Those directly involved the players. Sandusky is a pedophile. The university players are a bit old for his tastes. The PennState athletic program should take it in the neck, I think, but they aren't ALL exactly the same issue.

 

[estragon]

College football is a business, one that generates millions (make that hundreds of millions) of dollars. It funds the entire athletic program. It generates alumni contributions; makes prospective students (even non-athletes) want to attend; provides athletic scholarships for the multitude of graduates who will never be professional athletes; puts the college or university in the public eye...and yet if the price of all the foregoing is ultimately paid by raped children, shut the whole thing down!

 

[lovecraft68]

It doesn't have EVERYTHING to do with the football program--not as EVERYTHING as the programs at the schools someoneyouknow specified. Those directly involved the players. Sandusky is a pedophile. The university players are a bit old for his tastes. The PennState athletic program should take it in the neck, I think, but they aren't ALL exactly the same issue.

He got away with it for as long as he did, because it was decided that the good of the football program (and the money it brought in) far outweighed the well being of those kids.

Hence it is about the program. In this case it was not the players, but those above them, but its still the program.

What this says is that the people in charge of the program decided that all that mattered is winning, even when it came to covering up what really is the most heinous act you can commit, the rape of a child.

IMO that means that program needs to be made an example of. At least a year, at least or else the NCAA is saying its alright as well.

 

[jomar]

Too little too late.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Hence it is about the program. In this case it was not the players, but those above them, but its still the program.

But that's the point. This is really one of the only scandals that doesn't involve players. Not only that, but most of the violations by officials were, if I understand it, years ago--so current couldn't possibly be involved.

It's one thing to punish a team if a player screwed up, broke a law, etc. As unfair as that might seem in certain circles, that's what team sports are all about--you win together, and you fail together.

But to punish current Penn State students--many of whom are getting full scholarships to college on the basis of their sport--for the sins of administrators? I might be biased here--I was an athlete in college--but that seems misdirected. And yes, I understand how the football program is about much, much more than the current players . . . but those players should be considered, too. I don't know how much it helps victims to shut a program down.

If you want to hit the university where it hurts, hit them directly in the pocketbook--not indirectly through temporary sanctions, and not drastically through permanently shutting the program down. Hurt them by charging millions upon millions upon millions in fines. Heck, in addition to settling with all victims, make them set up programs for detecting and combatting pedophilia in sports, and make them start funds that can actually help the youth of PA that Sandusky was supposed to be helping.

 

[sr71plt]

He got away with it for as long as he did, because it was decided that the good of the football program (and the money it brought in) far outweighed the well being of those kids.

Right, but that's irrelevant to what you posted. It doesn't have EVERYTHING to do with the football program. In that vein someoneyouknow was making a correct differentiation.

Wipe out their coaching teams and any administrator involved, slap them with a humongous fine (the victims alone might bankrupt the school anyway) and, yes, maybe put them on suspension long enough that football is no longer the number one thing in everyone's priorities at PennState (it never should have been), and let the damage already done to the school's reputation spin out.

This wasn't about what Sandusky was doing inside the football program. It's about big boy networks and protecting their own--which is occurring in all sorts of places. The response should be enough and the right things to make them all take notice. And that's not about football players.

 

[PennLady]

He got away with it for as long as he did, because it was decided that the good of the football program (and the money it brought in) far outweighed the well being of those kids.

Hence it is about the program. In this case it was not the players, but those above them, but its still the program.

But it is not about the program in the way that recruiting scandals and such are about the program. So it may not have violated NCAA rules, although I don't know what rules they have on such things.

 

[PennLady]

But to punish current Penn State students--many of whom are getting full scholarships to college on the basis of their sport--for the sins of administrators? I might be biased here--I was an athlete in college--but that seems misdirected. And yes, I understand how the football program is about much, much more than the current players . . . but those players should be considered, too. I don't know how much it helps victims to shut a program down.

I don't know either. And I suppose that some of the punishment won't be about helping the victims. Maybe it shouldn't be.

I think the problem here is that Penn State appears to be this sort-of independent state agency from what I read. It's a state university but not under state control. So punishment may be unclear as well.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

[tangent]

I think the problem here is that Penn State appears to be this sort-of independent state agency from what I read. It's a state university but not under state control. So punishment may be unclear as well.

Most state universities aren't under direct state control. And though it might not seem it in this case, on the whole, it's a really, really good thing that public universities don't fall under the constant whims of governors and legislatures. UVa gave a recent and really good example of the disaster that can happen when the state steps into academia.

[/tangent]

 

[PennLady]

[tangent]

Most state universities aren't under direct state control. And though it might not seem it in this case, on the whole, it's a really, really good thing that public universities don't fall under the constant whims of governors and legislatures. UVa gave a recent and really good example of the disaster that can happen when the state steps into academia.

[/tangent]

That certainly makes sense. I've just never looked into it and I didn't go to a state college.

ETA: So I guess I take back my earlier statement. I'm not informed enough on the topic and was going from a couple of articles I'd read.

 

[sr71plt]

UVa gave a recent and really good example of the disaster that can happen when the state steps into academia.

How's that? A major problem at UVa was that the state government didn't step in (the muckup was by business and big private donors)--and when it did step in, that was the start of bringing it back in balance (asks someone sitting smack dab in the center of the UVa mess).

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

How's that? A major problem at UVa was that the state government didn't step in (the muckup was by business and big private donors)--and when it did step in, that was the start of bringing it back in balance (asks someone sitting smack dab in the center of the UVa mess).

The governor selects the board of visitors. That's what I was talking about. In my opinion, the further you can separate state politics from universities, the better. I understand that this isn't 100% possible in the case of public universities, but I mentioned it because I don't think having Penn State more under the control of Pennsylvania politics would make the situation any better.

But yes, I agree, the governor of VA should have stepped in earlier . . . but it should never have happened in the first place, and might not have happened if the governor hadn't had sole power to hand-pick the visitors.

 

[lovecraft68]

But it is not about the program in the way that recruiting scandals and such are about the program. So it may not have violated NCAA rules, although I don't know what rules they have on such things.

The problem here is the heinous nature of the crime. Kids were raped. It was covered up, it was covered up solely for the benefit of the football program. The rules be damned, once it really starts getting out there how much this was covered up the NCAA is almost going to have to do something.

The fact this is about children is what is really driving it. How many coeds are assaulted by athlete's every year and it goes away? Its a culture at some of these schools.

You think Roethlisberger turned into a rapist the day he stepped onto an NFL field? These kids in some of these big market schools are told they can do anything they want, and who tells them that? Their coaches.

So if nothing happens here beyond Sandusky's jail time, every pedophile in america just found a new job to apply for "football coach"

They need to come down and do it hard.

 

[sr71plt]

The problem here is the heinous nature of the crime.

No. That was the criminal trial. The problem here (other than you always having to have something to totally, persistently hate without nuance) is the coverup of a heinous crime for financial and big boy network reasons. And, yes, by specific university and athletic program officials.

Not by the players or students or the academic side of the university or the women's tennis team, or the men's basketball team, or . . . .

 

[PennLady]

So if nothing happens here beyond Sandusky's jail time, every pedophile in america just found a new job to apply for "football coach"

They need to come down and do it hard.

Look, I'm not defending anything here, because there's nothing to defend. Something beyond the jail time will happen, but just what it is remains to be seen. Some things have happened -- Curley, Spanier and a couple of others were suspended and fired, another resigned and Paterno was fired. I believe Curley and someone else are up on perjury charges. This just isn't all done yet.