Penetration

[FungiUg]

It seems that the males of the species find the "idea" of any form of vulnerability somewhat scary.

Nothing quite like generalising from a statistically significant sample of three.

I don't find the idea of being penetrated off-putting, either physically (which I have experimented with) or mentally (which I can claim, based on the context of CM's original definition, certainly happens.) It's just not how I would choose to describe the mental stuff.

I'm not sure I would equate penetration (in whatever context) with vulnerability either. I suppose if I were about to be penetrated by some very large needles I would feel vulnerable!

 

[JMohegan]

Obviously you missed this one, SD:

I'm happy to discuss vulnerabilities of the people in charge, but to me that is not penetration.

From my perspective, this has been a semantic discussion about the concept of penetration.

Would you like to discuss male, D, or Top attitudes on vulnerability? I'm game, if you are.

 

[satindesire]

Nothing quite like generalising from a statistically significant sample of three.

Would you like to discuss male, D, or Top attitudes on vulnerability? I'm game, if you are.

That's why I brought it up.

 

[Netzach]

After perusing this thread, what I find most fascinating is the threat of ANY kind of penetration, whether it be mental, emotional or physical, makes the PYLs run screaming like they're being offered a root canal with no Novocaine.

Is being vulnerable and intimate really that scary, y'all?! REALLY?!

This is a non-starter for me when it comes to bottoming.

I can't actually bottom to someone who's terrified of a little cock in them. Mine or other, doesn't matter.

It's a mental block - I feel like their stance is that innately something I don't mind is beneath THEM. Doesn't fly for me at all. If you can't handle a fuck or an attempt at one you can't handle me.

Needless to say the men I don't mind doing evil things to me have been more or less gay and sado, with their own receptive pasts.

 

[JMohegan]

That's why I brought it up.

Do you have a reasonable question in mind?

Your unsubstantiated and insulting assumption regarding hysteria is hardly an invitation to discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[satindesire]

Do you have a reasonable question in mind?

Your unsubstantiated and insulting assumption regarding hysteria is hardly an invitation to discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

Unsubsta-....wow, it's called a joke, JM. Sorry to have touched a nerve.

Maybe we should talk when you're calm, huh?

 

[JMohegan]

This is a non-starter for me when it comes to bottoming.

I can't actually bottom to someone who's terrified of a little cock in them. Mine or other, doesn't matter.

It's a mental block - I feel like their stance is that innately something I don't mind is beneath THEM. Doesn't fly for me at all. If you can't handle a fuck or an attempt at one you can't handle me.

Needless to say the men I don't mind doing evil things to me have been more or less gay and sado, with their own receptive pasts.

You're so.... versatile. Not sure that's the right word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment. Top, bottom, D-type, s-type, Mistress, lover of male and female, poly. You're everything.

So this may be an absurd question, in your case.

But isn't there anything that just plain doesn't arouse you? Not that it terrifies you, or is something you consider beneath you, but something that just simply doesn't interest you at all?

 

[JMohegan]

Unsubsta-....wow, it's called a joke, JM. Sorry to have touched a nerve.

Maybe we should talk when you're calm, huh?

I had no idea you were joking.

Carry on.

 

[Netzach]

You're so.... versatile. Not sure that's the right word, but I can't think of a better one at the moment. Top, bottom, D-type, s-type, Mistress, lover of male and female, poly. You're everything.

So this may be an absurd question, in your case.

But isn't there anything that just plain doesn't arouse you? Not that it terrifies you, or is something you consider beneath you, but something that just simply doesn't interest you at all?

It's not like I'm those things all at once. I bottom to T, but that's it, I don't consider myself a scene switch at all at this point - but I sure was.

I'm not old but I've been doing this since I was 23.

I think when you're 23 it's really healthy to try things versus not. I did.

There's things I'd never do - bestiality. Scat eating.
But most things that bore me, I know bore me from having tried them.

 

[Netzach]

Temp piercing: my initial response - "why the fuck would anyone do that?"
Not phobic fear, just "meh."

I had the opportunity to try it. So I tried it. I could also have said "no interest, no thanks" but I guess I'm kinked to experimentation, something to put in the diary, at worst.

I actually liked it a lot.

Years later, after the hospital -it holds no appeal for other reasons.

 

[JMohegan]

It's not like I'm those things all at once.

I'm not old but I've been doing this since I was 23.

I think when you're 23 it's really healthy to try things versus not. I did.

There's things I'd never do - bestiality. Scat eating.
But most things that bore me, I know bore me from having tried them.

I tried a lot of stuff at 23 too, but always prompted by some personal fantasy or notion of hey, this sounds really hot.

The point I'm working toward is that straight men are not a monolithic bunch. You know this at some level, surely, but it bears repeating when you offer up assumptions as to why they don't take cock. Some are homophobic, sure. For others it's simple disinterest. Others may be curious, but not enough to go to the trouble of seeking out the opportunity.

There's nothing about men that arouses me. I don't know why, there's just not. It's not only that I have no interest in being penetrated by them; I have no interest in doing any male penetrating, either.

 

[Netzach]

I tried a lot of stuff at 23 too, but always prompted by some personal fantasy or notion of hey, this sounds really hot.

The point I'm working toward is that straight men are not a monolithic bunch. You know this at some level, surely, but it bears repeating when you offer up assumptions as to why they don't take cock. Some are homophobic, sure. For others it's simple disinterest. Others may be curious, but not enough to go to the trouble of seeking out the opportunity.

There's nothing about men that arouses me. I don't know why, there's just not. It's not only that I have no interest in being penetrated by them; I have no interest in doing any male penetrating, either.

You know my attractions pretty much mandate bisexuality, just like Primalex has his weight cutoffs and you don't like covered necks. But I do think that a guy who likes being penetrated exclusively by non-bio cock fits into this universe - just not mine.

I couldn't get it on with a woman who was completely aghast at the thought of her own penetration either. It's not limited to men - I'd always be probing the notion that they don't respect what I'm doing and it's crazy-making.

 

[JMohegan]

You know my attractions pretty much mandate bisexuality, just like Primalex has his weight cutoffs and you don't like covered necks. But I do think that a guy who likes being penetrated exclusively by non-bio cock fits into this universe - just not mine.

I couldn't get it on with a woman who was completely aghast at the thought of her own penetration either. It's not limited to men - I'd always be probing the notion that they don't respect what I'm doing and it's crazy-making.

The idea of penetration by non-bio cock is a big turnoff to me. Not indifferent. Huge turnoff.

For me, I think this is a control thing. Not disrespect. The notion that I have not respected my most intimate partners is just nonsense.

It's much closer to the reason I can't bottom, either. Being hit with anything sparks a barely controllable urge to turn around and throttle the one doing the hitting. Intellectually, I understand why the physiology should work. But there are just some things that intellect can't overcome.

In any case, I've never had a partner express interest in donning a non-bio cock. So for me, it's a moot point, really.

 

[Netzach]

The idea of penetration by non-bio cock is a big turnoff to me. Not indifferent. Huge turnoff.

For me, I think this is a control thing. Not disrespect. The notion that I have not respected my most intimate partners is just nonsense.

It's much closer to the reason I can't bottom, either. Being hit with anything sparks a barely controllable urge to turn around and throttle the one doing the hitting. Intellectually, I understand why the physiology should work. But there are just some things that intellect can't overcome.

In any case, I've never had a partner express interest in donning a non-bio cock. So for me, it's a moot point, really.

I'm sure you do and have respected them. I'm talking about how this asymmetry makes *me* feel. There are hordes of "oh I could never submit to a man who submitted to me ever" people to offset me.

It's not logic, it's pure personal preference. There's nothing I can do to someone so scary and horrible that he/she can't be brave enough to entertain it, especially if they purport to control me at some point. That's how my brain frames it: if I can handle this, then you can.

I like fucking girls enough that I don't think I could deal with being with one who wouldn't let me, and what's good for the goose I guess.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I tried a lot of stuff at 23 too, but always prompted by some personal fantasy or notion of hey, this sounds really hot.

The point I'm working toward is that straight men are not a monolithic bunch. You know this at some level, surely, but it bears repeating when you offer up assumptions as to why they don't take cock. Some are homophobic, sure. For others it's simple disinterest. Others may be curious, but not enough to go to the trouble of seeking out the opportunity.

There's nothing about men that arouses me. I don't know why, there's just not. It's not only that I have no interest in being penetrated by them; I have no interest in doing any male penetrating, either.

It doesn't matter to me why you or any other man doesn't take cock. Disinterest doesn't interest me. Distaste is distasteful to me. I'm very phobic against the violence and general piggishness of homophobia.
A mild curiosity... maybe we can do something with that.

I agree with Netz, I cannot muster up any interest in a man -- or woman-- that cannot take what I can take, that doesn't enjoy what I enjoy. Nothing personal, JM, I think you are a nice guy. But I just don't think I would have so much fun with you.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

It seems that the males of the species find the "idea" of any form of vulnerability somewhat scary.

Which is kind of funny, given that seeing that vulnerability makes some pyl types feel much closer, more connected, all that jazz.

 

[JMohegan]

It doesn't matter to me why you or any other man doesn't take cock. Disinterest doesn't interest me. Distaste is distasteful to me. I'm very phobic against the violence and general piggishness of homophobia.
A mild curiosity... maybe we can do something with that.

I agree with Netz, I cannot muster up any interest in a man -- or woman-- that cannot take what I can take, that doesn't enjoy what I enjoy. Nothing personal, JM, I think you are a nice guy. But I just don't think I would have so much fun with you.

Your first sentence is contradicted by the following three.

This isn't a sexual compatibility issue; this is a character issue. Obviously a straight man and a transgender person who is only attracted to gay men are sexually incompatible. That requires no explanation, and certainly no apology.

 

[Primalex]

It seems that the males of the species find the "idea" of any form of vulnerability somewhat scary.

You know what, I even think most dominant tops don't like to bottom!! No, really! If you offer them to be bottom for some junkie girl, they will deny this!!!!

I mean, what's wrong with them, it's just bottoming??!!!

 

[Primalex]

Unsubsta-....wow, it's called a joke, JM.

She is right, JM. I looked it up:

joke (jk)
n.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously;



Should have known that her appearance outside cute pic or whore attention threads will be a joke.

 

[satindesire]

She is right, JM. I looked it up:

joke (jk)
n.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously;



Should have known that her appearance outside cute pic or whore attention threads will be a joke.

Oooh, snap. Did I strike a nerve, sugar tits? Wassamatta, is the big bad BDSM forum troll mad now?

Look at me, I'm shaking in my little space boots.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Your first sentence is contradicted by the following three.

I don't care why you don't take cock, the fact that you don't is all that matters. The reasons are merely important to you.

This isn't a sexual compatibility issue; this is a character issue. Obviously a straight man and a transgender person who is only attracted to gay men are sexually incompatible. That requires no explanation, and certainly no apology.

What apology?

Where did I say I would not fuck a straight man up the ass, or let him fuck me? I'm married to a guy who is 98% straight, but does know what penetration feels like, and does know what bottoming feels like, and can take orders tolerably well on occasion-- and can enjoy these things.

Sure it's a character issue. You, from what you say, are too uptight and linear and concerned with your role be satisfying to me sexually. I don't think any less of you for it, and you, no doubt, don't mind that I am not attracted to you.

 

[Homburg]

My take on physical penetration of the PYL, ie me:

Years ago, I had this gal on her knees fellating me. She and I had just started the relationship, and while it was a BDSM thing, we didn't know each other all that well. Well, she was doing a pretty darned good job on my cock, and was cupping my balls with her left hand. For no apparent reason, she reached back and started to slide a finger into my rectum. With zero conscious thought, my left palm made contact with the side of her head hard enough to dislodge her from my cock, and fast enough to keep me from being bit.

She was a mess, crying and apologising, and I was too shocked to really process. No thought, just a cuff to the head. I felt bad, because I had not explicitly forbade this, but not totally bad as I also had neither requested nor ordered this deed. Seems her ex really liked prostate stimulation, so she figured I might too. She learned, and quickly, that this was not the case.

Being me, I don't blindly accept my own knee-jerk reactions. I have to examine them, turn them around, experiment, etc. As a result, I've tried various forms of (self) prostate stimulation. Result of this experimentation was the solid decision that my ass is uninterested in any sort of penetration, and, likewise learned, that it is best to tell a new partner not to get exploratory with that area of my nether region.

--

My take on emotional/mental penetration of the PYL, ie me:

It is honestly necessary for real intimacy. If I present a monolithic, invulnerable facade to my partner, I do two things: First, I show that I am incapable or unwilling to trust her with the truths of my existence. Second, I lie to her, and present an illusion of me as perfect and unflawed. Neither is acceptable.

While the relationship is unequal in many ways, certain aspects must have symmetry or I will not be happy. Trust is one of those, as is honesty, commitment, openness, etc. Each of these, in its' own way, is emotional penetration. In short, I will be inside her head, but she should be inside mine too. It in no way lessens my control, and does deepen both commitment and communication.

See, I figure if you have to hide it behind smoke and mirrors, it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors anyway. If, however, I expose my own weaknesses and vulnerabilities and am still in charge, well, by my math, I deserve to be where I am.

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!" is a non-starter for me.

 

[FungiUg]

You know what, I even think most dominant tops don't like to bottom!! No, really! If you offer them to be bottom for some junkie girl, they will deny this!!!!

I mean, what's wrong with them, it's just bottoming??!!!

I suck at bottoming. Seriously.

 

[Primalex]

Oooh, snap. Did I strike a nerve, sugar tits?

Only in your wet dreams. I'm not into whores, you know this.

I'm tired of BLoveds style of argueing.

Primalex:"All women want to have a cock."
Women:"Bullshit!"
Primalex:"See?! See?! I did strike a nerve there! It must be true! All the women here oppose me. They don't want to see the truth! What problem do women have in admitting that they want a cock?"


This is what you do here. You fancy a devious style of deliberate misapprehension while pretending to be the innocent and pure victim. Your face helps you in stringing the more naive guys here along, but you can't trick me.

 

[satindesire]

This is what you do here. You fancy a devious style of deliberate misapprehension while pretending to be the innocent and pure victim. Your face helps you in stringing the more naive guys here along, but you can't trick me.

Trick you into what, Books? If I'm such an attention whore, then stop paying attention to me. It's really not that hard to figure out, is it?

Seems that my pretty face has won you over anyway, since you can't seem to leave me alone...EVER.