peers or public?

[butters]

As writers - poetry/novels/plays/scripts and more - can you tell me which is really more important to you: the accepting applause of the reading public in general, or the appreciation of your writing by fellow writers you happen to admire for their own talents?

Is this something that varies because of writing genres, for example poetry and scriptwriters who might hope their work appeals to a different target audience for obvious reasons?

and yeah, we all know the money's nice

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

None of the above.

Richard Feynman described it best. He said, you work work work, study study study, get a clever idea, and discover that Isaac Newton had the same idea in 1700. So you do more work and more study, have another clever idea, and learn that Einstein had the idea in 1900. Youre making progress.

Your peer may be back in caveman times, your critic may be in the Dark Ages, your reader may have her head up her ass.

 

[butters]

...

Your peer may be back in caveman times, your critic may be in the Dark Ages, your reader may have her head up her ass.

This is why I made the criteria as being a fellow writer whose own work you admired. If you think they write well, and above your own standards, and if you've heard enough of their own comments regarding others' work to understand their opinion is given with honestly and intelligence, does it not then mean anything to you if they compliment your own writings?

Ultimately, I'm guessing, we must be content with our own writing to be truly happy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The criteria you posit doesnt illuminate your competence as a writer. Maybe theyre being polite or condescending or blitzed on drugs. But you can compare your wares with the masters and get a good idea of how youre doing.

 

[Boota]

I always write for ME first and foremost. Then the reading public. Then I don't care. It's nice when a writer I admire likes what I've done, but that doesn't rate anywhere on the scale.

 

[butters]

I always write for ME first and foremost. Then the reading public. Then I don't care. It's nice when a writer I admire likes what I've done, but that doesn't rate anywhere on the scale.

doesn't any writer ultimately write for selfish purposes? their own gratification? to scratch that itch, quieten that burn? to see their own thoughts and words out of their heads and into some concrete form?



"it's nice when a writer I admire likes what I've done"

ok - so does that 'nice' rate above any feelings of 'nice' you get from the approval of a stranger about whose level of judgement you can only guess at?

 

[vrosej10]

I always write for ME first and foremost. Then the reading public. Then I don't care. It's nice when a writer I admire likes what I've done, but that doesn't rate anywhere on the scale.

I agree with Boota. I write for myself, to relieve the unrelenting desire to hit the keyboard and churn something out. I write for the joy of stringing words together. A reading public is nice, but unnecessary. I know that makes writing sound like mental masturbation, but hey, masturbation has its merits?!

 

[butters]

The criteria you posit doesnt illuminate your competence as a writer. Maybe theyre being polite or condescending or blitzed on drugs.

correct, but then that wasn't the question. I am really looking for simple honest replies as to that gut feeling about praise from 'a versus b'. But you have already replied to that, stating neither. So thankyou for your valid points.

But you can compare your wares with the masters and get a good idea of how youre doing.

This may be trickier, though, than first appears. If the writer themself does not have the necessary talent or breadth of education to appreciate the works of 'the greats' to the extent someone on their same intellectual capacity could, then how can any realistic comparison be entertained? I am, at best, a learner in the field of writing poetry. I've never written a novel, or a play, or a tv script... How then am I meant to be able to judge my own work against someone like Byron, or Whitman, Cummings, Shakespeare or Poe? All I can do is read and make up my own mind as to whether or not I enjoy their works. I do find that some of those vaunted as greats leave me cold, even if I can appreciate their talent for meter or form. Now that might be due to my own shortcomings, or simply down to a matter of taste.

 

[jomar]

Money talks so the applause of the public matters most if your trying to make a living at writing.

 

[butters]

I agree with Boota. I write for myself, to relieve the unrelenting desire to hit the keyboard and churn something out. I write for the joy of stringing words together. A reading public is nice, but unnecessary. I know that makes writing sound like mental masturbation, but hey, masturbation has its merits?!

nothing wrong with mental masturbation at the right tiime and in the right places

however, as I've tried to point out already, this isn't a question about 'why do you write'.

but keep on with that masturbation thing - makes for good reading

 

[butters]

Money talks so the applause of the public matters most if your trying to make a living at writing.

of course! and its warm glow can be said to match or even outstrip that of personal commendation if money's your bag.

I'm not likely to get rich out of what I write, lol.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

correct, but then that wasn't the question. I am really looking for simple honest replies as to that gut feeling about praise from 'a versus b'. But you have already replied to that, stating neither. So thankyou for your valid points.




This may be trickier, though, than first appears. If the writer themself does not have the necessary talent or breadth of education to appreciate the works of 'the greats' to the extent someone on their same intellectual capacity could, then how can any realistic comparison be entertained? I am, at best, a learner in the field of writing poetry. I've never written a novel, or a play, or a tv script... How then am I meant to be able to judge my own work against someone like Byron, or Whitman, Cummings, Shakespeare or Poe? All I can do is read and make up my own mind as to whether or not I enjoy their works. I do find that some of those vaunted as greats leave me cold, even if I can appreciate their talent for meter or form. Now that might be due to my own shortcomings, or simply down to a matter of taste.

Writing is one of those pursuits (especially poetry) where everyone feels entitled to a plastic trophy just cuz they fucked up a perfectly good sheet of paper with scribbles. The LIT storyboard is really Grandma's refrigerator where she posts your shit with a magnet.

If you wanna get a sense of where you fall in terms of talent, collect a sample of writing from kindergarten scribblers to Tolstoy, and everyone in between. If youre the average American your stuff will match the wares of an 8th grader, and your dog will have a better vocabulary. If your writing is indistinguishable from Tolstoy, youre safe telling your english perfesser to fuck off.

I answered your question, you didnt like the answer.

 

[butters]

Writing is one of those pursuits (especially poetry) where everyone feels entitled to a plastic trophy just cuz they fucked up a perfectly good sheet of paper with scribbles. The LIT storyboard is really Grandma's refrigerator where she posts your shit with a magnet.

If you wanna get a sense of where you fall in terms of talent, collect a sample of writing from kindergarten scribblers to Tolstoy, and everyone in between. If youre the average American your stuff will match the wares of an 8th grader, and your dog will have a better vocabulary. If your writing is indistinguishable from Tolstoy, youre safe telling your english perfesser to fuck off.

I answered your question, you didnt like the answer.

now don't be getting all puffed up and angsty with me

yes, I've had works published as a poet - both hardcopy and electronic, books, zines and newspapers as well as websites. But it meant more to me when poets I personally rate compliment my own work or take the time to criticise it to good effect for me to learn from that. The publications also vary in degree of how pleased I was to find myself included - you (hopefully) grow as a writer, and looking back at some of the pieces I had published is embarrassing. Others I remain content about and even proud of.

I certainly don't feel entitled to a plastic trophy, I'm not american, and I'm 50 so way way past telling any 'english perfesser' to fuck off. come now, let us be civilised.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No one can argue what you like or prefer; youre the best authority. But it seems to me youre wanting a show of hands to reinforce and confirm your preference as the 'true way.'

I'm a published poet, too. I like poetry. I believe poets make the best prose writers. And poetry attracts legions of undisciplined scribblers who want trophies without scrutiny, that is, they sell pigs in a poke.

 

[butters]

No one can argue what you like or prefer; youre the best authority. But it seems to me youre wanting a show of hands to reinforce and confirm your preference as the 'true way.'

I'm a published poet, too. I like poetry. I believe poets make the best prose writers. And poetry attracts legions of undisciplined scribblers who want trophies without scrutiny, that is, they sell pigs in a poke.

I'm not sure why you drew that conclusion, perhaps it was something to do with my wording of the question. If so, my apologies. However, this is not what I'm about. I don't need that sort of social reinforcement or even an ego-stroke. The question was put out there so I could get some idea of how other people think... not as an underlining of my own personal preferences.
I am curious about people and how minds work.

As for pigs in a poke - indubitably. As for scribblers - well we all started off somewhere. Some progress beyond that, and some go all the way. Some favourite passages of mine come from the wonderfully descriptive tracts written by Hardy when showing us the bucolic scenery his stories inhabit. The rest of his stories I found to be dour at times, and even unsatisfactory in their renderings or character-development for me. But man, did he have an eye for scenery. Like paintings before the eye.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thats it. You master Hardy's skill with description and improve it. When your descriptors are better than Hardy's and like no one else, youre THE MAN!

 

[butters]

Thats it. You master Hardy's skill with description and improve it. When your descriptors are better than Hardy's and like no one else, youre THE MAN!

or woman, in this case. the day I think I write better than Hardy, i'll either need shooting for the audacity or to be published a whole lot more.

 

[sr71plt]

To be honest, it appears to be peers for me. (Or better yet, someone I perceive to be better at it than I am.)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

To be honest, it appears to be peers for me. (Or better yet, someone I perceive to be better at it than I am.)

Oh! Please! You'd hang yourself if I complimented you.

 

[sadangel]

As writers - poetry/novels/plays/scripts and more - can you tell me which is really more important to you: the accepting applause of the reading public in general, or the appreciation of your writing by fellow writers you happen to admire for their own talents?

Is this something that varies because of writing genres, for example poetry and scriptwriters who might hope their work appeals to a different target audience for obvious reasons?

and yeah, we all know the money's nice

Both but I think maybe more so fellow writer's. I'm still very new to writing so when an established author tells me it's pretty good, or "damn hot" I feel like maybe I'm doing something right. I do care about the readers, but reader's in general tend to be very finicky. I know I am.

Money? What money? Nobody told me about the money!!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIT is a mix of grandma's refrigerator and AMERICAN IDOL.

 

[TE999]

I write simply because it's fun. If I can strike a chord with a reader and/or a fellow writer, it's frosting on the cake. I appreciate every comment I receive (troll dreck nowithstanding) and reply to all I can. I'm glad for a site like this one that offers amateur writers such as myself the opportunity to present our work to the reading public.

I'll never be a Tolstoi, a Hemingway or a Mailer...but I'm me and that's enough.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh! Please! You'd hang yourself if I complimented you.

I was talking about my peers and those better than I am. I don't see where your comment is relevant.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I write dirty stories because I enjoy writing them. I like the plaudits of the public also, such as an email or a PC from a woman telling me how wet she got reading a story of mine, or how she likes reading one while she uses a dildo on herself, etc. I also like to hear the equivalent from men or from couples telling me they take my stories to bed and act out what the characters are doing.

It's nice to get an attaboy from one of my peers but, since I write porn or stroke, rather than erotica, this is not that common, unless it is a contest entry.

 

[wife2hotblk]

I write simply because it's fun. If I can strike a chord with a reader and/or a fellow writer, it's frosting on the cake. I appreciate every comment I receive (troll dreck nowithstanding) and reply to all I can. I'm glad for a site like this one that offers amateur writers such as myself the opportunity to present our work to the reading public.

I'll never be a Tolstoi, a Hemingway or a Mailer...but I'm me and that's enough.

AMEN!