PC, WriterDom, KillerMuffin...or.....

[Kymberley]

Need help with something. You three were the first three that came to mind after hearing this, I was hoping one of the three of you could maybe help find anything to support or debunk this story.

My step mom and I were talking about this 9-11 attack. She is constantly into it always being a conspiracy or something by some form of government. (she actually believes that Child Protective Services was created to help rich white families find children to adopt. Meaning, they don't remove children from poor minority families, only from white ones, since they are easiest to adopt, that is why so many minority children live in homes with horrible parents and never get taken by government organizations meant to protect children from abuse)

Anyway, she keeps suggesting that this attack was known well in advance by the Government officials. She believes that the picture of the firemen raising the flag, that has graced so many newsmags and papers, was intentionally set up to bring back memories of WWII. She says that there is no doubt in her mind that we also knew this attack was coming and that the Feds just waited, so it would stir us as a country into a war-raging machine.

She keeps telling me that when Pearl Harbor was attacked, our top officials were meeting with military panels at the time and were warned that this indeed was going to take place and that they officials remained silent about it, not warning anyone, so that we could have a "justified" reason to join the war.

I can't really find any information to support her claim in the mass media that is most credible. I don't want to go to conspiracy pages that try their damnest to make us all believe life is nothing but a conspiracy.

In all my studies on WWII, I have never heard such stories regarding us knowing these attacks were imminant. So, is this a true statement? Did we know? Is there subsantial proof of this anywhere?

Any help, would be greatly appreciated. I just can't make this woman believe that our government is any better than Hitlers.

Funny though, she and my father have never minded milking the Feds for food stamps and welfare all these 25 years they have been married.

 

[Problem Child]

Tell your mom to lay off the sauce.

There were numerous indications we were heading for war with Japan, but it's never been proven that FDR knew ahead of time that it would be December 7, 1941 or any other date in particular, or that the target would be Pearl harbor. We were in negotiations with the Japanese right up until the attack, and they delivered a declaration of war after the attack was over, either on that sunday, or the next day, I can't remember right now.

There were various warnings issued that an attack was possible, and even imminent, but no specific target was named. Many mistakes were made as we look back in hindsight. The warships should have been moved out of Pearl Harbor, and the planes at Hickam field should have been dispersed. The warnings of attack should have been taken more seriously but they weren't.

We had also recently started using a brand new device called radar, and planes were actually detected right before the attack began, but the radar operators reports were dismissed because the radar was so new and it's operators were inexperienced.

I think your mom needs to stop and think about what kind of governmnent would allow 7000 of it's citizens to die in a terrorist attack like the one we just experienced. If she really and truly believes our government would allow this, she may want to consider counseling or maybe a good dose of electro-shock therapy. I hear they're getting wonderful results with it these days.

 

[Natalie Nessus]

.

 

[Kymberley]

Tell your mom to lay off the sauce.

[/I] If only it were that easy. The woman is always right, in her mind, and never shuts up.[/I]

I think your mom needs to stop and think about what kind of governmnent would allow 7000 of it's citizens to die in a terrorist attack like the one we just experienced. If she really and truly believes our government would allow this, she may want to consider counseling or maybe a good dose of electro-shock therapy. I hear they're getting wonderful results with it these days.

Maybe then I would get my daddy back.

I keep trying to tell her there is absolutely no reason to believe that Our Government would ever stand by and watch something this horrific happen to any of it's citizens. She kept insisting it is all staged, from the flag raising to the Members standing on the steps that evening singing.

She just doesn't get it, and what is worse, my little brothers and sister have this same mentality she does. They all believe something is the plot of some bigger plan. It always has to have a mastermind behind it, nothing ever just happens.


Thanks PC

 

[KillerMuffin]

There is a persistent rumor that no one has actually substantiated with documented fact. I hear a lot of "it's coming out now that we knew about the plot..." from my own crew of paranoids.

It's entirely possible that intel did let us know what the Japanese were doing. However, if we did have access to that information, who would believe it? We were at the height of Pacific military supremacy and we had discounted the Japanese as much threat. No one would ever think that David would attack Goliath. If that information existed, we did nothing to stop the attack, not because of some great governmental conspiracy to start a pacific war/self glory/kill Americans, but probably because no one believed it would happen.

There is the factor that intelligence isn't always reliable, as well.

Think of it this way, if you'd heard beforehand that some terrorists were planning on hijacking planes in the United States and suicide bombing targets in New York and Washington, would you have believed it? Honestly?

I understand the feeling of living with paranoia, I live with two horribly paranoid people, one of whom says that our phones are always bugged, the FBI is always keeping tabs on us, and that the Television has a smart chip that spies on us. I've discovered that ignoring them is the best because I can't live with paranoia. You can't convince them that their paranoia is wrong, because in cases it's justifiably founded. Our government does do things that justify some paranoia.

If you ever figure out how to shut them up regarding their paranoia and conspiracy theories, please let me know so I can apply it here as well.

 

[Kymberley]

Does she vote? God, I hope not

Can't believe I am actually saying this about a citizen of the United States, but thank God, no she doesn't.

Thought it was so ridiculous that I would bother to vote in Texas before I moved to St. Louis. I moved two days before the General Election last year. She also believes that I should not take my sons with me to vote each time like I have done since they were little. It just fills thier heads with things that are not true. You know, that whole thing about each vote counting and meaning something.

As she puts it, the minorities are controlling all the elections in St. Louis and so there is no reason for a white person to bother voting. As I said, Thank God she did not raise me. I was raised by my bio mom and step dad who taught me that if you want something, you earn it, if you need something, you work your way to getting it, if you know something is wrong, you just don't do it. Most importantly, if you can't afford to take care of it, don't have it.

My step mom thinks that if I give up my job, I will find one paying less and not have to work so hard, because I would be eligble for so many government programs. Better yet, work under the table, get all the help from the feds and still make it just fine.

 

[Problem Child]

That's too bad. Does she ever consider that this "staged" attack may seriously damage our economy for years to come? Why would George Bush want the economy to falter? Doesn't she understand that the number one factor for voters in every election is the economy?

And why does she think our government would want a prolonged war with the Islamic world? This kind of war could go on for decades, and the longer it goes on, again, the longer our economy would suffer.

If the government is provoking this war just to destroy Islam (and trying to see it through your mother's eyes, I can see no other reason for it) why wouldn't we just nuke them and get it over with? With limited precision strikes, the radiation hazard would be overwith in a few weeks, and we could move right in and take the oilfeilds.

I'm sorry your mom is so paranoid, it must be hard for you.

 

[Mellon Collie]

My Mom works at the IRS here in Philly and she was telling me that about two weeks prior to the attack the Director of the IRS sent out a mass notice to all employees nation wide that there have been numerous threats (that's it nothing specific) and that all employees should report anything unusual and do their part to help beef up security. Now if this is related in anyway at all I don't know but she thought it was strange because threats on the IRS are made all the time and they never do anything like that.

 

[Kymberley]

re: paranoia over being watched.

My parents won't use their computer on the net, cause everything we do is watched.

Now I know what the feds watching me are doing most of the time, masturbating, Damn I love surfing porn.


Working for a newspaper, she is always wondering how many people are paying our reporters to print such one sided truths. Trying to explain that most newspapers these days are usually biased to either the far right or far left does nothing to her, she still insists that all papers print the stories they are paid to put out to poison our minds.

I have worked for 3 conservative newspapers in the south, and 3 liberal ones, all still print the news. You just have to watch how you interpret it. I stay away from most political stories, if I can tell how one sided they are to the writer's political beliefs. I may read them, but I take them with a grain of salt, just like I do most editorials.

 

[Problem Child]

Killer, how ya doin' this morning babe? Feeling "blue"?

There is a letter or story, I can't remember which, wherein an account of FDR having dinner with his family on the evening Dec. 6, 1945 FDR supposedly says something like "I fear by this time tommorow we will be at war" or words to that effect. This is the closest thing I have found that FDR knew something was coming very soon. Take it for what it's worth. He might have known everything, or he may have had an idea there was an attack coming but didn't know where. He may have been speaking in metaphorical terms. He may have been drunk, for all we know. This statement, in and of itself is far from definitive proof he knew that Pearl was going to be bombed the next day by the Japanese navy.

All the other evidence is very generalized. We were taken by surprise, almost exactly like we were on 9-11. Everyone knew a terrorist attack was possible, but no one knew it would be so big or so well executed.

The same is true of Pearl Harbor. I think most people expected that war with Japan was coming, but nobody thought the Japanese were capable of pulling off an attack from halfway across the Pacific Ocean and doing it undetected, with very few losses to themselves.

 

[Kymberley]

PC, she would be such an interesting case study. She is an intelligent lady in so many ways, but she is so untrusting. She is quite controlling, but still very loving to my sons, her step grandchildren.

I have tried for weeks to explain all the ramifications of this attack to her, how it could easily send our country into a recession unlike anything our generation has ever seen. I have pointed out that a few nukes here and there would end the Arabic world as we know it, and we have even battered about the Crusades and how crazy that was at its time.

To believe that this is about one religion being better than the other is a real thought in her head, she can see that we would try and turn all the world into Christians even though we have more Muslims believing in Islam here in the United States than we have any other single organized Religion.

I don't know where her head is, I just go nuts listening to her spout this crap, but for the peace of the family, I just let her ramble and poison the heads of my little brothers and sisters, hoping that some day they will learn to think for themselves the way my sons and I do, but all the while knowing that will never happen either.

KillerMuffin,

Exactly, we hear so many things in our own daily lives that are nothing more than rumors, why in the world would we as a nation believe so many idle threats that come through every day. Who would believe that our own planes would become bombs? Who would believe that anyone, including Bin Laden would be so brazen as to take on the US in such a way, angering all Americans.

No one, we have to listen to all rumors, but deciphering which ones are credible and which ones are not, is not a job I would personally want.


Thanks to all of you for your input.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Oh yes and I forgot to mention, in WWII all the ships on the base that was attacked were deployed at the time of the attack. I always found that to be strange, I guess at the same time it could have just been coincidence but I don't hesitate to think politicians would do something like that as an excuse to get a reason and support to enter the war.

 

[Problem Child]

Oh yes and I forgot to mention, in WWII all the ships on the base that was attacked were deployed at the time of the attack. I always found that to be strange, I guess at the same time it could have just been coincidence but I don't hesitate to think politicians would do something like that as an excuse to get a reason and support to enter the war.

That's incorrect. Our aircraft carriers were out in the Pacific on a exercises, but all the other ships at Pearl were moored, and undergoing maintenance and repairs.

Also, as I mentioned above, all of the aircraft on the island were parked wing to wing on Hickam field.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Prior to Pearl Harbor the Japanese had begun building planes and ships and making other preperations for war and we knew it. They had already annexed Korea and Taiwan and invaded China and French Indochina. They had already attacked several of our gunboats and signed a pact with Germany. We had cut off trade with them and had moved in to help our allies who were threatened by the Japanese.

In the 30's we were allied with the government of China in the person of Chiang Kai-shek. He was fighting Chinese communists, you may have heard of Mao Tse-Tung. His country was divided by civil war when Japan attacked and occupied the very rich Manchuria.

The Japanese were building a serious navy and air force as well as the army. However, at the time we were unaware that they had the capability to fly to Hawaii. See, that's the key factor in our disbelief that they would actually attack Pearl Harbor, we didn't think they had the proper equipment to do it. However, they'd developed the Mitsubishi "Zero-sen" and it had the range to reach Hawaii.

The Asian continent and pacific regions were NOT peaceful until the Japanese suddenly up and decided to attack Pearl Harbor. We had ships over there to protect shipping lanes and to offer support to our allies over there against the Japanese.

We knew we were going to war already. We knew we needed to build up the military already. We just didn't think that our own personal territory was vulnerable to the Japanese. We didn't think they could reach us.

 

[Kymberley]

KillerMuffin

Damn what I wouldn't pay to just pick your mind for a day or two.


Brains and beauty, gotta love it!

 

[GuyJD]

[/I] If only it were that easy. The woman is always right, in her mind, and never shuts up.[/I]




Maybe then I would get my daddy back.

Here's a simple idea. Recite the first sentence of the Miranda rights to her. ("You have the right to remain silent.")
Then strap a gag on her.

 

[Kymberley]

And waste a good ball gag on her? Not a chance. Won't be sharing any of my toys with her.

 

[GuyJD]

LOL LOL LOL

And waste a good ball gag on her? Not a chance. Won't be sharing any of my toys with her.

So you'll just prevent her from having some fun, huh? What a nice daughter you turned out to be. LOL

 

[shadowsource]

And don't forget the Philippines -

The US military had seconded Genl. Douglas McArthur to our colony in the Philippines as chief of their army, in a very weird maneuver wherein he ceased to work for the Pentagon. McArthur, who was in some respects a genius, at least sometimes, was caught horribly off-guard by Japan's surprise attack. His substantial Philippine air foce was wiped out, wing-to-wing, and his army was instantly blown out. Any Washington-directed effort to "allow" a surprise attack would have in some way safeguarded our huge investment in the Philippines. Our war effort in the Pacific islands was crippled for a long time. There was concrete fear of a Japanese invasion of Australia.

And PC: FDR could have said that in response to word that the US-Japanese negotiations in DC that weekend were going very badly. They certainly were.

Kymberly - good luck with your stepMom and try not to let her poison your kids' thinking with such lurid paranoia. After hearing about all the Muslims saying that 4,000 Jews failed to show up for work at the WTC 9/11, I've just heard today that someone was saying that the Arabic vendors near the Graybar Building failed to show up that morning. It's total bs, all of it.

The first and often biggest hole in any conspiracy is how anyone can keep such a secret, especially in our tell-all culture. The terrorists had a plan for that, too: Most of them are dead, but I'm so happy about the capture of the pilot-"trainer" in London.

 

[miles]

PC

can't remember which, wherein an account of FDR having dinner with his family on the evening Dec. 6, 1945 FDR supposedly says something like

I think you meant Dec. 6, 1941.

Would have been a pretty good trick for a dead guy.

 

[Problem Child]

only a qwueeb like you would point that out....

 

[Kymberley]

At the risk of being taunted for not knowing this, I just have to ask it anyway. What the hell is a qwueeb?

 

[KillerMuffin]

It's a cross between a queef and a dweeb.