Parents outraged over school sex survey of 10-year-olds

Todd-'o'-Vision

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Would you be upset if you found the school doing this to your 10 year old child

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Los Angeles Daily News
June 17, 2002 21:30:00
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20020619.shtml


LOS ANGELES -- Seven Mesquite School parents whose children were given a controversial survey that asked questions of a sexual nature have filed a claim against Palmdale School District of the Antelope Valley, about 50 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles.

The survey had asked youngsters if they thought about having sex, if they thought about "touching other people's private parts" and if they didn't trust people because they might want sex.

"Hopefully they will never do something like this again. We needed to protect our children's rights the best way we could." said parent Tammany Fields, whose 10-year-old son was given the survey.

The school board is scheduled to consider the parents' claim at its closed-session meeting today. The claim filed May 30 by the parents of four children charges the survey was a violation of state and federal constitutional rights.

"It wasn't unexpected. The board will determine what they will do with it," Superintendent Nancy Smith said Monday.

"Parents have the statutory right to know, in advance, whether their children will be given sex education at a school, and if they choose, in their sole discretion, to exempt their children from such education. By robbing the claimants of the right to control their children's upbringing, the district simultaneously robbed the students of their innocence and the claimants of their status as parents," the claim said.

Prompted by parents' complaints, the district in January halted the survey that was administered to 13 third- and fifth-graders by a mental health therapist for her doctoral degree.

The district investigated the circumstances around the survey and adopted new policies to prevent its recurrence, including formation of a committee of parents and administrators to review requests to survey pupils.

At the time the survey was stopped, district officials said the director of psychological services had reviewed the questions prior to the survey and told the therapist to take out about a half-dozen questions he deemed inappropriate, but that this was not done.

Board president Sheldon Epstein said earlier that the investigation found there was not any inappropriate intent on the part of the therapist and that there had been a lack of communication between her and district personnel.

"(T)he district has deprived the claimants of significant constitutional rights of privacy, equal protection and due process and had significantly impaired the claimants' ability to control and monitor the sexual education and development of the students," the claim said.

Besides the sexually oriented questions, the survey also asked if the youngsters had bad dreams or nightmares, if they felt lonely or angry, or if "scary ideas or pictures just pop into my head."
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
Prompted by parents' complaints, the district in January halted the survey that was administered to 13 third- and fifth-graders by a mental health therapist for her doctoral degree.

So we'll use your kids as guinea pigs so that some psych student can get her PHD. That's CA for ya.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
Besides the sexually oriented questions, the survey also asked if the youngsters had bad dreams or nightmares, if they felt lonely or angry, or if "scary ideas or pictures just pop into my head."
what was she getting her PhD in, the blatently obvious? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Parents outraged over school sex survey of 10-year-olds

RawHumor said:


So we'll use your kids as guinea pigs so that some psych student can get her PHD. That's CA for ya.

Not all people in Cali are like that. :(

But in my opinion this is just wrong. In my classes to become a teacher i had to take a class about gathering data and all that kinda stuff. One of the first things we learned was that if you use underage children you must get parental permission.
I guess what i am saying is that it is the fault of the person who gave the survey, the district for allowing it, and the teacher for letting it be taken. i hope that the parents win their case.
 
Re: Re: Re: Parents outraged over school sex survey of 10-year-olds

~tehya~ said:
Not all people in Cali are like that. :(

I apologize.

I know that not all of CA is like that. It just seems that when the really kooky stuff like this happens, CA seems home to it quite often.
 
i admit that i live in the land of fruits and nuts, and it kills me sometimes! :)

There are so many times when i hate being from Cali, this being one of them.
 
This sounds like a situation where the PhD student is the one who should be called on the carpet. Informed consent of the parents was a requirement for all my students' work, pictures, etc to be included in my coursework for my Master's degree.


Not getting that consent from the parents represents an ethical violation that should, in my opinion, prevent the student from completing the dissertation. I'll refrain from mentioning the glaring problems with the research.
 
morninggirl5 said:
This sounds like a situation where the PhD student is the one who should be called on the carpet. Informed consent of the parents was a requirement for all my students' work, pictures, etc to be included in my coursework for my Master's degree.


Not getting that consent from the parents represents an ethical violation that should, in my opinion, prevent the student from completing the dissertation. I'll refrain from mentioning the glaring problems with the research.

The student may not have had any control over how it was given to the students. She may have assumed that the teachers would have the responsibility to get the parents' permission beforehand.
 
RawHumor said:


The student may not have had any control over how it was given to the students. She may have assumed that the teachers would have the responsibility to get the parents' permission beforehand.
should it not have been her responsibilty to ensure her "research" was being done in a proper manner?
 
My eldest just participated in one of these things for this fella's PHD thing.

I had to sign a consent form.
 
brokenbrainwave said:
should it not have been her responsibilty to ensure her "research" was being done in a proper manner?

For her paper, yes. But as far as the kids go, we don't know how much control she had.

I'm more concerned about the teachers' lack of ethics as far as the kids go than I am about her paper though.
 
It's the student's responsibility to get the consent. It's her dissertation and her reputation on the line. You don't rely on others to fulfill your ethical obligations when it is your entire career on the line.

The teachers were doing her a favor, allowing her to come into their classroom or pull the students for a time. They aren't responsible for her failure to follow the guidelines. Any undergraduate psychology student can tell you the importance of informed consent for anyone participating in research. If she's at the point of completing her dissertation, she would be very familiar with the ethical requirements of psychologists completing research.

The doctoral student fucked up here. She is the one the parents should be going after. Of course she's a student with no money, so they're going after the school.
 
RawHumor said:


For her paper, yes. But as far as the kids go, we don't know how much control she had.

I'm more concerned about the teachers' lack of ethics as far as the kids go than I am about her paper though.
Extremely valid point, however I would be curious as to whom decided it would be "ok". Someone made the decision to allow her this avenue. Something that should rest soley with the kids guardians....


As morning eluded to, there are glaring flaws in her idea for a thesis, but if the proffessor is going to allow it, oh well.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:

The district investigated the circumstances around the survey and adopted new policies to prevent its recurrence, including formation of a committee of parents and administrators to review requests to survey pupils.

At the time the survey was stopped, district officials said the director of psychological services had reviewed the questions prior to the survey and told the therapist to take out about a half-dozen questions he deemed inappropriate, but that this was not done.

Board president Sheldon Epstein said earlier that the investigation found there was not any inappropriate intent on the part of the therapist and that there had been a lack of communication between her and district personnel.


Likely scenario, she called someone in the district office, explained her situation and asked for permission to survey some students at the elementary school down the street. The person in the district office said, "sure, but the survey has to be approved by the director of psychological services."

PhD student submits survey to the Dir. of Psych Services who sends it back with a note to delete certain questions and you can use the survey in the school. The questions that were supposed to be deleted were the questions that are the focus of her dissertation so she didn't delete them. The Dir of Psych Services sends a letter to the principal of the school giving permission for her to survey students and asking him/her to cooperate.

PhD student goes to the school and the principal tells her the name of a teacher who will let her pull out the number of students for the survey or who will let her come into the classroom for the survey. She goes in and gives the survey to the kids, leaves the school and prepares her initial data. Then after whatever the experimental variable is (a sex-ed assembly, time, health class, etc.) she will return to do the follow-up survey.

The kids who completed the survey went home and told their parents about it and the parents got upset.



The PhD student is the one who is wrong here. She didn't delete questions when asked to do so. She didn't follow the ethical standards of the APA (American Psychological Association).

The school system learned a lesson, they must scrutinize who they allow access to students more carefully.
 
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