Opinions please

[Debbie]

To some this may seem a trivial issue but to me it is important.
Warning long post ahead)
I am 32. A mother of two boys 13 and 8.

My mother is my dilemma. I haven't seen her since I was 14. My Grandparents raised my sister and I because my Dad died and my mother had a nervous breakdown and couldn't cope.

Any contact I have had with my mother has been very emotionally disturbing. More so for me than my sister because she cannot remember the things my mother did when we were kids and on the few visits we did have when we were growing up.

The only memories I have of my mother are her extremely drunk, waving a knife, threatening my sister's life, strange, scary, bizarre, sending me letters saying that It was my fault that she had health problems. I should never been born etc.

A few years ago she was diagnosed as being schizophrenic. It made sense and helped me to understand why she was the way she is.

The thing is I don't think of her as my mother. There is no bond at all. Yes, she gave birth to me. Yes, in a way I love her. But contact is very difficult.

Lots of stuff under the bridge, My Grandmother constantly told my sister and I we were just like our mother.


About a year ago I called the half way house she is in and spoke to her main caregiver who was kind and honest. Then I spoke to my mother. It was a very strained conversation. She spoke to me for about 5 mins. Then felt she had to go.

Since then she has written a few times and I am finding it hard as to wether I take the risk again of somesort of relationship. She gets very confused. Thinking my kids are still very small. Sending letters with no stamp. But the post office still send them here? Now how does she manage to do that?

Today I got a letter addressed to my maiden name, but with Mrs. on it. The letter inside is for my kids. Wanting them to send her pictures. I had tears in my eyes. She signed the letter Nana. Something she has never done before. I think I want to write to her. I want to visit my fathers grave, for the first time, later this year and she lives only a few miles away. Can I see his grave and not visit?

I don't know. Maybe I am still scared of her and her illness. Remembering what she was like when I was a kid. Things have changed so much when it comes to schizophrenia. According to family members my mother received electric shock treatment as part of her therapy. I don't know if it is true or not.

Looking for others opinions. Thanks.

 

[Wiggles]

Schizophrenia is such a sad, terrible disease.

Have you read up on it? It may help you forgive your mother a bit, or at least understand where she's coming from.

If you do get in contact with her I would think it would be mainly for her benefit. Up to this point in your life she really hasn't been a mother to you, and it seems (from your post) that you don't really need that connection with her.

I wouldn't take your children to see her unless you explained the illness, and maybe some of your past with her?

What could be the benefits? Maybe it would make your mother feel a little less lonely. It could help her feel better if you forgave her, maybe lift a little of the guilt. You could come out of the experience with a new friend, but I think you would have to be the one to put yourself out for a friendship. You might not feel comfortable giving your trust to this person again.

Good luck with whatever you do. It is a very hard situation indeed.

 

[MissTaken]

*hugs* hugs*hugs*

I am so sorry to hear you are coping with something as difficult as this.

When you ask "Can you....."

Debbie, you can do as much or as little as you can live with. You can visit your father's grave and not visit your mother.

Do you want to know your mother? Do you want to see her?

Act based upon those answers. You are an adult with a family to consider, do as you wish.

Maybe you would feel more comfortable with more information. What is your mother's treatment like? Is it working? (There are marvelous meds to help schozophrenics.) Also, does your mother want to see you?

There is a lot to consider, but hon, you are the only one who knows what you want to do and can do.

Many hugs and best wishes,
Miss T

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Sorry to hear this, debbiexxx.

I agree wholeheartedly with MissTaken, and think the answers will come to you in your heart after finding out more about this disease.

"Mothers" seem to affect all of us. One conversation with mine and I can feel the same insecurities I did when I was 10 years old! It must be horrible when your Mom is so unwell. Listen to your heart.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Perhaps she has a psychiatrist or other doctor you could speak with. There is obviously a part of you that loves her and wants to have the relationship. Then there is a part of you that's afraid of what she'll do.

Ask yourself why you would want to have your children get to know her. Would it be good for them. Schitzophrenia is a terrible disease not only in the toll it takes on the person who has it but on the family around them. Do you want your children to be subjected to that? Your love and responsibility for your mother does not override your love and responsibility for your children.

I would suggest, at least for your own peace of mind, that if you decide you want to allow her to have contact with all of your family that you start very slowly. Get to know her as she is now a little yourself. You don't trust her. You have very good reason not to.

Whatever you do decide, it will be a good decision because you are a smart and goodhearted woman.

 

[Bigdog]

Debbiexxx:

Try www.nami.org. This is the main US website for National Alliances for the Mentally Ill. They are a non-profit support group for families and friends of persons with brain disorders and/or mental illness. Several people I know locally are members and have nothing but praise for the organization.

My heart goes out to you. I hope things work out for the best.

 

[Guest]

 

[patient1]

Your Grandmother who raised you was wrong.
You & your sister are not just like your mother.
You have our support & acceptance, whatever you do.

 

[LukkyKnight]

FWIW

nami.org sounds like an excellent place to start, as does a conversation with her overseeing physician/psychiatrist assuming there is one. Perhaps, also, with your own...

Listen to your heart, trust yourself to know what is right. Intuition is not invalid just because it's hard to explain. You know what you want, so find the path which takes you there.

I would not try to combine the two visits you speak of, but that's me. Sounds like a whole lot to pack into a single outing... on the other hand, it may be right for you. If you choose to, I'd see your mother first, not after letting the emotions of visiting your father's grave wash through you.

Good luck.

 

[Summery]

Lots of Hugs my Friend.........

My heart goes out to you debbie.
I think everyone else has had some very good feedback and ideas. I agree go with what your heart tells you. Fox made a good point there's no need to hurry up and have a meeting with your mum and children. Take it one day at a time. Only do what you feel comfortable with and what you feel is best for the sake of the children.
You always know how to get ahold of me Debbie.

Summer............

 

[ShamelessFlirt]

Debbie,

If you say the only contact you've had has been emotionally disturbing, then I would ask why you think contact now would be any different. Your instincts are to protect yourself and your family. I would be worried not only for you, but the kids as well. Not that they wouldn't understand the situation, but that they might get hurt.

My moms not in my life right now. I wouldn't say that we were close, but I did try and maintain the relationship because it was the right thing. Like you said, she did give birth to me, I felt I owed her that much. But I also started to see a cost to maintaining the relationship. Snipes, arguements and finally how she treated my kids (intentionally did things after I said not to). I started to feel it wasn't worth it, but I bit my lip, and dealt with the stress and tension everytime she wanted to come over (and the fights with the wife too). I never said no to her when she wanted to come by (we lived fairly close). Then one day she called me at work and threatened me with legal action if I didn't let her see the kids. I couldn't take it any longer and that was the last we really spoke. We've said a few words since, but nothing meaningful. What does this have to do with "Debbie" ...lol I guess it's a cautionary tale or a worst case.

Good luck. I hope things work out for you whatever you decide.

 

[Jacqline]

debbiexxx,

My heart goes out to you and your family. I agree with the others who said that it would be a good idea to talk to your Mom's caregivers first. I have a feeling that you have pretty good instincts, so, after hearing their opinion of how she is doing, then listen to your "gut" and go with that. I also agree that you shouldn't be in a hurry to intruduce your children to the situation until you have seen for yourself (if that is the road you choose).
Children tend to take things to heart and blame themselves for things that they had nothing to do with.

Whatever you choose to do will be the right thing. Please take care of yourself and know that a lot of people are in your corner.
*hugs* Jacqline

 

[Caria Knight]

The others here offer some really good advise. As they suggested you should find out what you can about the illness and talk to here caregivers. As Lucky said, I wouldn't do both in one day. Both visits will be extreamly emotional and an awful lot to deal with in one day.

If you do persue a relationship with your mother I would definitly say that you should do it first without the children. That doesn't mean you can't give her pictures or tell her about them, just that they shouldn't have direct contact until your much more comfortable with her. Also by doing that you'll be able to explain her condition to them better in advance.

Should you or shouldn't you do it? Only you can answer that question and it will be a hard one for you to make. You have to way the impact it will have on not only your life but the lives of your family. Take your time deciding, it will change your life forever. But keep one thing in mind, if you do get to know her and things don't go well, you don't have an obligation to let your children meet her. Don't ever let anyone tell you different either. She gave birth to you then abused you at least emotionally. You don't owe her anything now, you only owe yourself what your heart tells you is right.

My thoughts are with you. What ever you decide will be for the best at this time in your life. Good Luck!

 

[Dragonlady]

I really don't know what i would do, I guess what felt right to you and you feel secure in what you have to do

 

[Debbie]

Thank you to all of you who replied, with your good wishes and words of advice.

Jacqline,"Children tend to take things to heart and blame themselves for things that they had nothing to do with."

*Nodding my head* This goes back to my own childhood. I used to think I had done something to make her the way she is. I know I didn't.
I don't want my kids to see the things I saw, even if it is just the very erratic behaviour.


ShamelessFlirt,"If you say the only contact you've had has been emotionally disturbing, then I would ask why you think contact now would be any different."

That's the thing I have no idea if the contact will be any different to what it has been.
I am sorry to hear that things are not well with your mother either.

LukkyKnight,"nami.org sounds like an excellent place to start, as does a conversation with her overseeing physician/psychiatrist assuming there is one. Perhaps, also, with your own... "

Because she is in a half way house I have no idea if she has a psychiatrist. Over here the privacy act may mean I will not get any information either. But I can try and contact the place where she lives and see how I get on.

Patient1, thank you. I know we are not like my mother at all. I could never have got through the things I have done without the strength and kindness my Grandfather showed me. The things he instilled in me have helped me to grow up and be the person I am with the loving role model I had in him.

KM, for your kind words I thank you. What you had to say meant a lot.

Foxie and SummerRose, thank you to you both. *hug*

Foxie, I know she is reaching out to me. Do I want to reciprocate? In one way, yes. But in another, no. I am afraid that nothing will have changed. My kids will not be exposed to her till I am convinced that she is doing a whole lot better. I have talked to them about my mother and they understand as well as they can at their ages.

Great advice from everybody. I need to know more about her illness, how she is now and if I am ready to visit her. I know I can cope. I just need to be mentally and emotionally be prepared that things may or may not work out.

And yes, now that I think about I won't visit my Dad's grave and visit my mother at the same time. I could stay with relatives and do one thing at a time.

I appreciate your kind thoughts.

 

[Jacqline]

Debbie,

When I read your reply to everyone, tears came to my eyes. I know how much your childhood had an impact on your life as the things I braved did.

You know what? As hard as it was, I wouldn't trade one bit of it, because I know I wouldn't be the person I am if I hadn't gone through these things. You are blessed that you had Grandparents that took you in (unfortunately your Grandmother hurt you more by comparing you to your Mother) but they did the very best they could as all of us parents do. We never know til they are grown and gone just how we did for sure.

You are a wonderful human being and your children are very blessed to have you in their life. Never sacrifice your well being for anyone else out of duty or guilt............you have to take care of yourself as well as your children. Listen to your intuition and you will be just fine. I am proud of you!

Jacqline

 

[T.H. Oughts]

"Children tend to take things to heart and blame themselves for things that they had nothing to do with."

Deb's I know with what I have had to deal with in the past I knew I could not deal with the person until I knew that the way they treated me was not because of me but because of the way their mind worked.

I felt untill I understood their mental state and what they said was just unstable thoughts and not their true self, it would only open old wounds to re-hear maybe things they had said in the past that had sunk into me.

But once I understood their condition, their words did not have the effect as they did in the past If anything it has given me compassion for the way they are. More than I ever thought I could.

If you would like to chat, pm me

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Debs,

I'd say keep it up, forgivness is a wonderfully thing on all sides. I expect it will be emotionally healing for you to move on from your past impressions of her.

But then I'm the sucker who thinks that almost all people are really good on the inside, and some just need a second, third, fifty sixth chance to prove it.

 

[Debbie]

Juspar I agree with you. I forgive people again and again. Optimistic I am.

I don't need to forgive my mother. She is sick. Something went wrong that isn't her fault. I have known that for a long time. Her family say that she has always been this way. They tend to pick her up for family functions and return her to the half way house when she loses the 'plot'.

The problem is can I cope with her? My past impressions are exactly that. Past impressions. Am I willing to take the risk that nothing has changed? Opening myself back up to the same emotional crap. I can say it till the cows come home, 'this isn't personal when she tells me she wishes I hadn't been born.'

It isn't personal when she tells me she hates me and that it is my fault my father died. (Of a brain aneurysm)

It also comes down to reality. My reality. My mother lives in her own safe world. She left our reality a long time ago.
It is me that is taking the big step by making contact with her. Risking that things haven't changed and that I will have to deal with that. Taking the chance that a visit in the hope of some relationship/bond will not turn into an ugly scene where she tells me again and again as she spits on me that she hates me. Telling myself again that this isn't personal.

T.H.Oughts. I hear what you are saying. Also a big issue for me. My first marriage was violent. His family were violent, this was a mindset. He treated me the way he did, and I stayed and let it continue till I found the strength to stand up for myself, because of the way his mind worked. He couldn't love and only expressed himself with his fists.

I don't understand my mother and maybe I never will. The same as she may never understand from my point of view that I am not rejecting her. From a very young age I have been the parent. Making sure when she got 'sick' that she took her pills and didn't choke on her vomit. Sending my little sister to safety when she went off the 'deep end.' At 8 I was mum. Don't feel pity for me. lol I'm not falling apart just venting, I guess.

*Sigh* I guess this whole thing has brought up unresolved issues. A simple letter started this. She has never tried to contact my kids till now. Am I overreacting? Probably.

Will I cope? Yes. Anyone who reads this who has a family member or if you are schizophrenic? Please tell me what life is like for you.


Thanks again for listening to me vent.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Am I willing to take the risk that nothing has changed?

Things have changed. You have grown, not only in your understanding of yourself and the world you live in, but of your mother's condition as well. You have a (mostly new?) more extensive network of friends and support. You do not define yourself so much in terms of your relationship to your elders. You are a mother, and understand better some of what your mother (and her's before her) went through - go through - and you have seen the bond of parent to child in a light you could not have understood so many years ago.

None of which means you must, or should, meet her now.

You think about this a lot, you wonder, you ponder, you imagine. Is it best to leave it hypothetical, or should you summon the energy and fortitude to look her in the eye, possibly becoming very emotional? Will you wish you had done so when you no longer have the chance? We can see the questions...

...you must find your answers.

 

[Gilly Bean]

Let me first start by saying that looking up info will be a good way to learn about the illness. However, it's not a way to make you understand why she did what she did.

Whether you have a reason or not, in your head, you will still have the images of what she did. She scarred you. You have to gome to terms with that, in order to be able to accept her. If you keep remembering what she did, it will hurt. Visiting her may help a bit, but it may also bring those memories alive again.

No one will have the right perfect answer for you. We can be here to talk to, and to give advice to, but you know in your heart what you want. If you don't feel it's time yet, then that's fine. If you think it is time, then that's fine as well. You don't have to feel obligated to go, or feel bad if you don't. Just feel and do what comes natural.


I wish I could take those bad memories away for you, but I can't, so all I can offer is a shoulder and an ear. Good luck

 

[Jimi]

Perspectives on the Journey

Wow, Deb!

First of all, let me say that you are a brave and articulate woman.

The more I "lurk & post"around here, the more i feel at home. Some of the folks here are WAY supportive...

As another kid "abandoned" by the family, I can understand your predicament... I think I'd go mostly with MissT and Summer in the advice dep't. Think it through as you are - RIGHT TRACK, GRRL!

i.e. - Do what you can in "chunks" that YOU have decided are manageable! Sir GreenKnight is right on the button there. You are an adult, and a pretty cool one from my read of your posts - you seem to have good instincts... Whatever you decide will work!

As decent people, there's always that nagging guilty feeling that we should be doing more for the "old folks" at the risk of our own equilibrium - and i've learned that that is not the best for me or my son. We limit visits w/ my parents to 2 days or less.

Secondly, it sounds like you have established some rapport w/ your mum's caregiver - GREAT! Let her be your guide, as suggested by others.

As you can see - dysfunction is shared experience here!

A burden shared IS TRULY a burden halved...

Jimi

 

[Gingersnap]

My brother had a similar diagnosis. I know some of the pain of which you speak. I think you want to heal this wound. If you choose to do so it will take courage but it is worth the trouble. You forgive for your own peace of mind and because in your heart you know it is the truth.

Your mother is a sick woman who could not help herself. She did the best she could given her circumstances. That statement will proably make you very angry. Do yourself a favor and talk with someone proffessional and explore your feelings with someone objective and informed.

I urge you to forgive for your children's sake as much as for your own. I think of it as a type of cancer robbing the person I loved of all that was familar and reasonable. Your grandmother's inability to accept this as an illness hurt both you and your sister. I wish that someone had been there to keep you safe and love you when your mother could not.

I hope whatever you decide to do you emerge with a sense of peace about your decision. Listen to your heart and not the anger. I will pray for you and your family.

 

[Debbie]

My brother had a similar diagnosis. I know some of the pain of which you speak. I think you want to heal this wound. If you choose to do so it will take courage but it is worth the trouble. You forgive for your own peace of mind and because in your heart you know it is the truth.

Your mother is a sick woman who could not help herself. She did the best she could given her circumstances. That statement will proably make you very angry. Do yourself a favor and talk with someone proffessional and explore your feelings with someone objective and informed.

I urge you to forgive for your children's sake as much as for your own. I think of it as a type of cancer robbing the person I loved of all that was familar and reasonable. Your grandmother's inability to accept this as an illness hurt both you and your sister. I wish that someone had been there to keep you safe and love you when your mother could not.

I hope whatever you decide to do you emerge with a sense of peace about your decision. Listen to your heart and not the anger. I will pray for you and your family.

Thanks. Gingersnap. Quote,"Your mother is a sick woman who could not help herself. She did the best she could given her circumstances. That statement will proably make you very angry."
No. It doesn't make me angry at all. My sister and I talk frequently about the upbringing we had. We very rarely get angry. Anger was not an acceptable emotion in our Grandmother's household. In fact she (Grandmother) was very unemotional. My sister and I have learnt to express our emotions, the full range but it has been something we had to work at.

In fact your statement about her being sick and doing the best she could? Yes, she did try her best but she was sick and incapabable of looking after us. I have forgiven her. It is her illness, not her that did the things she has done. Her family have said that she was a very loving mother, when she was well.

For me not forgiving someone doesn't work. The bad feeling weighs me down.

It is all so hard to explain. I guess in my mother's and my situation I have been the parent not her. Taking care of her and my sister before family found out what was going on.

Helping people has always been a big part of my life. I don't want undying gratitude or anything in return, it makes me feel good. Spreading smiles, laughter and love is a wonderful thing to be able to do.

So this 'thing' with my mother is hard to do. Being logical about it all? And unemotional. Getting it all into perspective. My mother would be thrilled to see me. It is me who will hold back. How can you tell someone we need to sort things out and talk when she isn't capable of a normal conversation.

So I made the decision that I would 'let go' of this crap by writing her a letter. Telling her I know she did the best she could. I know she loves my sister and I. But that things have been hard. (ETC ETC ETC) After writing the letter I am going to rip it into tiny little pieces and let it float out to sea. Then visit her later this year. What will be will be.

Thanks everybody for your kind words and opinions. It all helped when I read what you all had to say.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Writing a letter, on paper or in email, often helps sort out what's in your own head - you can't explain it to somebody else without doing so.

You're also, by the look of that last response, distinguishing between your connection to your mother and your acceptance of her behaviors - which were not always under her control. This is an important distinction for parents to learn to communicate raising children - I love you, but I don't like the fact that you used permanent black marker on the side of the dresser ( white car, living room wall, baby's head, whatever...) The actions and behaviors are not the person, they are manifestations of something which goes on in the person's brain which may or may not have an explanation we can find (here, again, as one matures one learns to separate explanations from excuses.)

I think writing a letter is the cleverest idea expressed so far by any of us, debbie. Way to go - IMHO you're very much on the right track.