Operations Fast & Furious

[4est_4est_Gump]

Perhaps, I know this may shock you, but just perhaps, there's no outrage because there's no "watergate". Perhaps this wasn't a secret plot by Obama to steal your guns, but an operation gone bad. If those most outraged at f&f actually focused on the poor planning and decision making instead of off the wall conspiracy theories, then more people would be willing to take up their cause.

This thread reminds me of the man standing on the street corner shouting "the aliens are coming!". Maybe he actually saw something of value, but no one will listen because he's jumped to the craziest explanation for what he saw.

Oh, if it were a Republican President, the story would be very different and we do not have to go as far back as Watergate, all we have to do is go back to PlameGate where the desire was to destroy the Bush Administration even though it had been reported and Fitzgerald actually knew that the insignificant, fabricated "leak" came from Dick Armitage over under Powell at State.

Truth mattered then as much as it does now to the Liberal Press.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

PS - Who died in Watergate?



Don't Mexicans count in the body count?

Why was our agent fighting the narco war with a bean-bag gun?

If these questions are not important to you now, then they better not have importance should your party lose...

 

[RobDownSouth]

*Yawn* Day 235 - still no outrage from teh general public, but AJ will nevar Nevar NEVAR forget!

 

[TexasWife25]

Oh, if it were a Republican President, the story would be very different and we do not have to go as far back as Watergate, all we have to do is go back to PlameGate where the desire was to destroy the Bush Administration even though it had been reported and Fitzgerald actually knew that the insignificant, fabricated "leak" came from Dick Armitage over under Powell at State.

Truth mattered then as much as it does now to the Liberal Press.

PS - Who died in Watergate?



Don't Mexicans count in the body count?

Why was our agent fighting the narco war with a bean-bag gun?

If these questions are not important to you now, then they better not have importance should your party lose...

1st, nonsense. If this had happened under a republican, it would have gotten the exact same press, the dems would have done the exact same fear mongering the pubs are doing now, and the media and the public would have moved on, just like they have.

Did you even read what I posted?


I said, you may have legitimate concerns, but instead of focusing on those you and everyone else in this thread, and on the right, are instead going with the narrative " Fast and Furious is a conspiracy by our government to steal our guns", talk like that turns the mainstream media off, as they dont want to be seen as .. crazy. It also doesnt garner much attention from the public because it sounds like something the man on the corner with the tin foil hat would say.

 

[unregistered]

 

[coachdb18]

1st, nonsense. If this had happened under a republican, it would have gotten the exact same press, the dems would have done the exact same fear mongering the pubs are doing now, and the media and the public would have moved on, just like they have.

Did you even read what I posted?


I said, you may have legitimate concerns, but instead of focusing on those you and everyone else in this thread, and on the right, are instead going with the narrative " Fast and Furious is a conspiracy by our government to steal our guns", talk like that turns the mainstream media off, as they dont want to be seen as .. crazy. It also doesnt garner much attention from the public because it sounds like something the man on the corner with the tin foil hat would say.

Liberals devalue information quite often unless it comes from liberal sources, so it should concern you greatly that CBS news has opened several resources that quite clearly show Fast and Furious was designed to expand government efforts of gun control.

documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations

You have to read the embedded emails virtually begging the ATF not to walk the uns, and read for yourself the gun dealers warnings and attempts to stop this, that you almost feel the pain they felt of having a government leaning on them to drive an anti-gun agenda at the cost of lives. To read their emails and fail to understand the depth of depravity of our own government is in itself criminal.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Liberals devalue information quite often ....

Teh Fringe Right always loves to tell us how libruls think.....

Derp.

 

[TexasWife25]

Liberals devalue information quite often unless it comes from liberal sources, so it should concern you greatly that CBS news has opened several resources that quite clearly show Fast and Furious was designed to expand government efforts of gun control.

documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations

You have to read the embedded emails virtually begging the ATF not to walk the uns, and read for yourself the gun dealers warnings and attempts to stop this, that you almost feel the pain they felt of having a government leaning on them to drive an anti-gun agenda at the cost of lives. To read their emails and fail to understand the depth of depravity of our own government is in itself criminal.

link broken

 

[coachdb18]

link broken

The original link which you say was broken was from CBS News directly, this is to the same emails via Pat Dollard...

http://patdollard.com/2012/06/cbs-news-obtains-emails-proving-doj-intended-to-use-fast-and-furious-to-advance-new-gun-control-laws/

 

[phrodeau]

Liberals devalue information quite often unless it comes from liberal sources, so it should concern you greatly that CBS news has opened several resources that quite clearly show Fast and Furious was designed to expand government efforts of gun control.

documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations

You have to read the embedded emails virtually begging the ATF not to walk the uns, and read for yourself the gun dealers warnings and attempts to stop this, that you almost feel the pain they felt of having a government leaning on them to drive an anti-gun agenda at the cost of lives. To read their emails and fail to understand the depth of depravity of our own government is in itself criminal.

link broken

Not a link to start with. Somebody doesn't know how to cut & paste a link.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

1st, nonsense. If this had happened under a republican, it would have gotten the exact same press, the dems would have done the exact same fear mongering the pubs are doing now, and the media and the public would have moved on, just like they have.

Did you even read what I posted?


I said, you may have legitimate concerns, but instead of focusing on those you and everyone else in this thread, and on the right, are instead going with the narrative " Fast and Furious is a conspiracy by our government to steal our guns", talk like that turns the mainstream media off, as they dont want to be seen as .. crazy. It also doesnt garner much attention from the public because it sounds like something the man on the corner with the tin foil hat would say.

You are delusional thinking that it would be the same exact press.

I never, ever said it was a conspiracy to steal our guns.

That's the narrative of the press.*

They no longer represent the mainstream, if, they ever did.

If you want to know who they represent,** who they think they are and who they think this administration is, read a very short book by Eric Hoffer, Blue Collar Philosopher, "The Ordeal of Change."

After all, it's crazy to submit that Obama was born in Kenya, but yet, he allowed his publisher to claim that in order to sell books, much as Elizabeth Warren claimed she was Cherokee in order to advance her career.




* It could have simply been a well-intentioned fuck-up. In the meantime, no one in government has had to pay a price for such a fuck-up, but Scooter Libby had to be punished for something he didn't do because he was he was in the path of a press dedicated to getting Cheney as a criminal...

** I invite you to a separate thread on the topic.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

For more than a year, Republicans have been leading an investigation into Fast and Furious, which was launched in Arizona in late 2009 by ATF, with help from the U.S. attorney's office there. The operation's targets bought nearly 2,000 weapons over several months. But for reasons that are still in dispute, most of the weapons sold were never followed, and high-powered weapons tied to the investigation ended up at crime scenes in Mexico and the United States, including the December 2010 murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

The Republican-led House voted late in June to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt, but Justice officials since then essentially have said the ball is still in Republicans' court, if they intend to follow through with vows to file a civil lawsuit seeking the remaining documents.

The congressional investigative report, to be issued Tuesday, specifically faults Acting Director Kenneth Melson; Deputy Director William Hoover; William Newell, special agent in charge of the Phoenix Field Division; William McMahon, deputy assistant director for field operations, and Mark Chait, assistant director for field operations.

Melson told investigators he felt the Justice Department was making him a scapegoat for the operation's failure.

"I think they were doing more damage control than anything," he testified, as quoted in the investigative report. "My view is that the whole matter of the department's response in this case was a disaster."

The congressional investigators noted that Melson "was concerned that Fast and Furious did not end sooner", but they also faulted him for never ordering it to be shut down.

The report faults Hoover for knowing Newell had employed "risky tactics" but allowing them to continue. Chait, for his part "paid a surprisingly passive role during the operation," while McMahon seemed to be nothing more than a "rubber stamp" for field operations, the report concludes.

The two other reports being prepared for release will focus more on the Justice Department's oversight role in the operation and its dealings with congressional investigators. Republicans have suggested Justice officials have resorted to political stonewalling in an attempt to cover up the truth, while administration officials have described the Republican investigation as a witch hunt.

But several Democrats joined House Republicans in voting for the contempt resolutions after Holder failed to give congressional investigators documents in response to a subpoena last year. Meetings in the run-up to the vote failed to reach a compromise, after President Obama asserted executive privilege over the documents.

Specifically, the documents at issue are mostly composed of internal Justice Department emails after Feb. 4, 2011, when department officials realized they would have to retract a letter to Congress that denied Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents ever let guns fall into the hands of suspected criminals.

In one email from early 2011, described to Fox News, Holder told subordinates: "We need answers on this. Not defensive BS. Real answers." The email was among several shown in two separate meetings with House Republicans and Democrats last week.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...employees-for-fast-and-furious/#ixzz22C8ocXrS

 

[unregistered]

 

[RobDownSouth]

*Yawn* Day 236 - still no outrage from teh general public. How sad.

 

[mercury14]

*Yawn* Day 236 - still no outrage from teh general public. How sad.

I'll generously donate a day of outrage to this cause. Charity is in my nature.

GodDAMN I'm PISSED today about this gun crap.

 

[phrodeau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTyhHzIzYA&t=3m14s

 

[TexasWife25]

Texas Democrats seem to have this trait.

Only to people who refer to all moderate republicans as RINOS, am I a democrat.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

This is worse than Watergate, by far.

no it's not

 

[coachdb18]

no it's not

Yes, it is. State sponsored murder is a high crime, and the deaths of Brian Terry, a Mexican attorney general, and and over 200 others because this administration wanted to invoke their 'fear of guns' agenda to push their end around moves of both Congress and the US Constitution is treason.

Watergate was an office break-in, and that's a misdemeanor.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yes, it is. State sponsored murder is a high crime, and the deaths of Brian Terry, a Mexican attorney general, and and over 200 others because this administration wanted to invoke their 'fear of guns' agenda to push their end around moves of both Congress and the US Constitution is treason.

Watergate was an office break-in, and that's a misdemeanor.

Those people would have died regardless.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[phrodeau]

Yes, it is. State sponsored murder is a high crime, and the deaths of Brian Terry, a Mexican attorney general, and and over 200 others because this administration wanted to invoke their 'fear of guns' agenda to push their end around moves of both Congress and the US Constitution is treason.

Watergate was an office break-in, and that's a misdemeanor.

You pretend to believe that the Mexican murderers were handed loaded guns by American officials, who then showed them where to shoot them. Your whole narrative is screwed up by this cockamamie idea.

 

[unregistered]

 

[phrodeau]

They gave them the guns knowing those who received them were violent cartel members, people who would use them to kill. Then they tried to cover it all up when the policy got people killed. Own it.

They gave nothing. The cartel members bought the guns. They would have bought guns with or without the US government.