On Submission...

[MisterSir]

This seems so mild compared to what others write on the site and by comparison to his past experience. But, this is where I begin.

Platitude time!

We all gotta start somewhere. I haven't even got that far, so hey. Like they tell us all the time at kickboxing, don't compare yourself to anybody else. Everybody's body is different, everybody's mind is different. Some people see the BDSM pool, strip off in seconds and dive in head-first, others are content to paddle in the shallow end, still others decide to pee in the water and the occasional idiots pees in the water from the diving board. Relax - ain't nothing wrong with the way you want to submit.

 

[wisk]

Where do you go to my lovley

My experiences to date with women are varied from vanilla to submissive tedencies to submissives.
It is with submissives that I find during sex they seem to find a head spaces that they enter and quite unlike any other encounter will submit to more the longer they are in that zone. The longer you keep them in that zone the more intense it seems for them when they find that release, was the first time i saw a women cry afters just from the emotional release.
Sometimes it is almost like they are hypnotised have not found this with vanilla sex or may be was doing that wrong.

But my question remains where do you go to ?

 

[unregistered]

 

[wisk]

That's the dirty little secret in the nutshell. Without permission from the pyl to do what we do, the PYL is -at best- just a sad figure alone in their basement with some very odd furniture!

so true...lets hope that one dosn't come back to bite you

 

[unregistered]

 

[rida]

Just like the submissive is there for the dom's pleasure, I also think the dom is there for the submissive's pleasure. Perhaps I am stating the obvious?

If you mean pleasure as in sexual pleasure, I'm with JMohegan and I would bring it even a step further: in a relationship sense, yes the pyl needs to get something out of it. But what that "it" is, can be even just the sense of being used.

Because I was being a really, really good girl the last few days by resisting my desire to leave a comment. Today, as my reward, I get to be bad!

Mwahahahahaha

And you know we love you when you are bad

 

[BiBunny]

Just like the submissive is there for the dom's pleasure, I also think the dom is there for the submissive's pleasure. Perhaps I am stating the obvious?

They're there because I love them and want them there. Not because they're there to entertain me, like I am for them. God knows, they're some of the most boring people I know.

 

[SmileWhenYouMeanIt]

Just like the submissive is there for the dom's pleasure, I also think the dom is there for the submissive's pleasure. Perhaps I am stating the obvious?

It's hard to explain - the dom's pleasure is the submissive's pleasure. I can't actually get aroused unless he is too. And the worst way he can make me miserable is by taking no pleasure in me. But it needs balance.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Platitude time!

We all gotta start somewhere. I haven't even got that far, so hey. Like they tell us all the time at kickboxing, don't compare yourself to anybody else. Everybody's body is different, everybody's mind is different. Some people see the BDSM pool, strip off in seconds and dive in head-first, others are content to paddle in the shallow end, still others decide to pee in the water and the occasional idiots pees in the water from the diving board. Relax - ain't nothing wrong with the way you want to submit.

Fuck. You go to my pool, don't you? It wasn't me, I tell ya. It was those crazy kids and their Big Gulps.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

If you mean pleasure as in sexual pleasure, I'm with JMohegan and I would bring it even a step further: in a relationship sense, yes the pyl needs to get something out of it. But what that "it" is, can be even just the sense of being used.

It's hard to explain - the dom's pleasure is the submissive's pleasure. I can't actually get aroused unless he is too. And the worst way he can make me miserable is by taking no pleasure in me. But it needs balance.

http://canadianfermentation.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/yin-yang.jpg

I like the traditional symbolism of this much more than the BDSM version, which seems contrived.

 

[CurlyKat]

It's hard to explain - the dom's pleasure is the submissive's pleasure. I can't actually get aroused unless he is too. And the worst way he can make me miserable is by taking no pleasure in me. But it needs balance.

Yup.

I balance.

 

[neci]

okay, diving in and not peeing.
sub-mission.
fuck.
i don't know.
i would put something fancy down, but that's already been stated.
i love what eastern sun wrote. and MisterSir.

i receive pleasure out of relinquishing control. giving myself over. becoming a physical fuck toy - where i have no say as to what is going to happen. when the part of my brain that makes decisions is shut off, i can feel complete release and experience ecstasy. honestly, if it didn't feel so damn good to let go, i wouldn't. i like being told what to do. i love pleasing. i want to get into my PYL's brain and foresee what is going to bring Him pleasure. i need to submit to that part of Him before He knows it's what He wants. i want to make Him cum harder than He has ever cum. submission is pretty natural for me on one level. i want to obey and do what i'm told. i submit because it makes sense to me. it works in my brain and in my body.

 

[SmileWhenYouMeanIt]

Fuck. You go to my pool, don't you? It wasn't me, I tell ya. It was those crazy kids and their Big Gulps.

He he he Remind me to turn down wet parties at your house...

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

He he he Remind me to turn down wet parties at your house...

It's gatorade. I swear.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

i receive pleasure out of relinquishing control. giving myself over. becoming a physical fuck toy - where i have no say as to what is going to happen. when the part of my brain that makes decisions is shut off, i can feel complete release and experience ecstasy. honestly, if it didn't feel so damn good to let go, i wouldn't. i like being told what to do. i love pleasing. i want to get into my PYL's brain and foresee what is going to bring Him pleasure. i need to submit to that part of Him before He knows it's what He wants. i want to make Him cum harder than He has ever cum. submission is pretty natural for me on one level. i want to obey and do what i'm told. i submit because it makes sense to me. it works in my brain and in my body.

------

It's really hard to play "Risk" with you because you always know what territory I'm going to attack.

 

[MrMentor7]

It's hard to explain - the dom's pleasure is the submissive's pleasure. I can't actually get aroused unless he is too...

I agree. It is like there is pleasurable reciprocity - I think that was the "stating the obvious" idea I was refering to.

 

[MrMentor7]

...In the moment, however, I'd say D/s is defined when the participants have different preferences for what happens next. The s defers to the D regardless. That's what distinguishes the dynamic from those in which conflicting preferences are resolved with compromise, negotiation, whatever.

When the s defers to the D (as you put it), does that always mean the s is enjoying themself? There is obtaing pleasure from pleasing another - I get that (see my above post). There is obtaining pleasure from uncomfortable sensations - I get that, too. But is there pleasure when you are doing something you truly do not want to do? If not, why does the submissive "put up" with it? Is it because the submissive knows they are a better person because of the unwanted experience? Is it because the submissive knows no relationship is perfect? Or maybe the submissive knows a wanted experience will come from the unwanted experience as a reward?

 

[CurlyKat]

When the s defers to the D (as you put it), does that always mean the s is enjoying themself? There is obtaing pleasure from pleasing another - I get that (see my above post). There is obtaining pleasure from uncomfortable sensations - I get that, too. But is there pleasure when you are doing something you truly do not want to do? If not, why does the submissive "put up" with it? Is it because the submissive knows they are a better person because of the unwanted experience? Is it because the submissive knows no relationship is perfect? Or maybe the submissive knows a wanted experience will come from the unwanted experience as a reward?

In short, yes, there IS pleasure in doing something that I truly do not want to do. Now for the nitpicking.... that pleasure only comes from doing it if it's something he really wants me to do. The pleasure is in the act of obedience and service. I may not get a single thing out of it, and may not necessarily enjoy the act itself, but I do get a sense of well-being and personal pleasure at having done what was asked of me and having pleased appropriately.

The reason I would "put up" with it, as you termed it, is because to me, his satisfaction is so much more important than my own. If he is happy, then I am happy. A "wanted experience" does not necessarily follow an unwanted. It just depends on what the purpose of the unwanted or undesirable activity was. Occasionally it's to teach me a lesson (punishments and the like fall into this category as well), sometimes it's to stretch me and see just how far I can go, and still other times it's just because he wants it, plain and simple. If a wanted experience will best tie things up, then that's what I'll get. If the purpose is best met with leaving things as they are, then that's it.

All in all, I think it does come back down to trust. Most Doms do indeed want to take care of their submissives and make sure they are happy, functioning people. I as a submissive trust that my Master does indeed have my best intentions at heart, and will never ask me to do something so unwanted as to actually break me beyond repair. He knows me, and can test me to find my limits so that he does not go into that irrepairable place. Other than that place, yes, I do get pleasure out of doing something I don't want to do if it's something that he wants.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

In short, yes, there IS pleasure in doing something that I truly do not want to do. Now for the nitpicking.... that pleasure only comes from doing it if it's something he really wants me to do. The pleasure is in the act of obedience and service. I may not get a single thing out of it, and may not necessarily enjoy the act itself, but I do get a sense of well-being and personal pleasure at having done what was asked of me and having pleased appropriately.

The reason I would "put up" with it, as you termed it, is because to me, his satisfaction is so much more important than my own. If he is happy, then I am happy. A "wanted experience" does not necessarily follow an unwanted. It just depends on what the purpose of the unwanted or undesirable activity was. Occasionally it's to teach me a lesson (punishments and the like fall into this category as well), sometimes it's to stretch me and see just how far I can go, and still other times it's just because he wants it, plain and simple. If a wanted experience will best tie things up, then that's what I'll get. If the purpose is best met with leaving things as they are, then that's it.

All in all, I think it does come back down to trust. Most Doms do indeed want to take care of their submissives and make sure they are happy, functioning people. I as a submissive trust that my Master does indeed have my best intentions at heart, and will never ask me to do something so unwanted as to actually break me beyond repair. He knows me, and can test me to find my limits so that he does not go into that irrepairable place. Other than that place, yes, I do get pleasure out of doing something I don't want to do if it's something that he wants.

This.

I know I also dislike some things that happen to me. But coupled with that, there's a sense of enjoying the fact that he's doing it because he wants to, regardless of my enjoyment.

I had a bit of personal growth on that front a while back, when I actually became aware of those feelings, and the fact that there was utterly no resentment there, like there was with my ex. It was a bit of a mindgasm really.

And really, my only 'wanted' activity after the 'unwanted' is to see that he's happy. Positive reinforcement works well with me.

 

[ecstaticsub]

In short, yes, there IS pleasure in doing something that I truly do not want to do. Now for the nitpicking.... that pleasure only comes from doing it if it's something he really wants me to do. The pleasure is in the act of obedience and service. I may not get a single thing out of it, and may not necessarily enjoy the act itself, but I do get a sense of well-being and personal pleasure at having done what was asked of me and having pleased appropriately.

The reason I would "put up" with it, as you termed it, is because to me, his satisfaction is so much more important than my own. If he is happy, then I am happy. A "wanted experience" does not necessarily follow an unwanted. It just depends on what the purpose of the unwanted or undesirable activity was. Occasionally it's to teach me a lesson (punishments and the like fall into this category as well), sometimes it's to stretch me and see just how far I can go, and still other times it's just because he wants it, plain and simple. If a wanted experience will best tie things up, then that's what I'll get. If the purpose is best met with leaving things as they are, then that's it.

All in all, I think it does come back down to trust. Most Doms do indeed want to take care of their submissives and make sure they are happy, functioning people. I as a submissive trust that my Master does indeed have my best intentions at heart, and will never ask me to do something so unwanted as to actually break me beyond repair. He knows me, and can test me to find my limits so that he does not go into that irrepairable place. Other than that place, yes, I do get pleasure out of doing something I don't want to do if it's something that he wants.

Perfectly said! I totally agree.

 

[rida]

But is there pleasure when you are doing something you truly do not want to do? If not, why does the submissive "put up" with it? Is it because the submissive knows they are a better person because of the unwanted experience? Is it because the submissive knows no relationship is perfect? Or maybe the submissive knows a wanted experience will come from the unwanted experience as a reward?

CurlyKat put it very well so I quote her:

In short, yes, there IS pleasure in doing something that I truly do not want to do. Now for the nitpicking.... that pleasure only comes from doing it if it's something he really wants me to do. The pleasure is in the act of obedience and service. I may not get a single thing out of it, and may not necessarily enjoy the act itself, but I do get a sense of well-being and personal pleasure at having done what was asked of me and having pleased appropriately.

The reason I would "put up" with it, as you termed it, is because to me, his satisfaction is so much more important than my own. If he is happy, then I am happy. A "wanted experience" does not necessarily follow an unwanted. It just depends on what the purpose of the unwanted or undesirable activity was. Occasionally it's to teach me a lesson (punishments and the like fall into this category as well), sometimes it's to stretch me and see just how far I can go, and still other times it's just because he wants it, plain and simple. If a wanted experience will best tie things up, then that's what I'll get. If the purpose is best met with leaving things as they are, then that's it.

All in all, I think it does come back down to trust. Most Doms do indeed want to take care of their submissives and make sure they are happy, functioning people. I as a submissive trust that my Master does indeed have my best intentions at heart, and will never ask me to do something so unwanted as to actually break me beyond repair. He knows me, and can test me to find my limits so that he does not go into that irrepairable place. Other than that place, yes, I do get pleasure out of doing something I don't want to do if it's something that he wants.

 

[subish2009]

In short, yes, there IS pleasure in doing something that I truly do not want to do. Now for the nitpicking.... that pleasure only comes from doing it if it's something he really wants me to do. The pleasure is in the act of obedience and service. I may not get a single thing out of it, and may not necessarily enjoy the act itself, but I do get a sense of well-being and personal pleasure at having done what was asked of me and having pleased appropriately.

The reason I would "put up" with it, as you termed it, is because to me, his satisfaction is so much more important than my own. If he is happy, then I am happy. A "wanted experience" does not necessarily follow an unwanted. It just depends on what the purpose of the unwanted or undesirable activity was. Occasionally it's to teach me a lesson (punishments and the like fall into this category as well), sometimes it's to stretch me and see just how far I can go, and still other times it's just because he wants it, plain and simple. If a wanted experience will best tie things up, then that's what I'll get. If the purpose is best met with leaving things as they are, then that's it.

All in all, I think it does come back down to trust. Most Doms do indeed want to take care of their submissives and make sure they are happy, functioning people. I as a submissive trust that my Master does indeed have my best intentions at heart, and will never ask me to do something so unwanted as to actually break me beyond repair. He knows me, and can test me to find my limits so that he does not go into that irrepairable place. Other than that place, yes, I do get pleasure out of doing something I don't want to do if it's something that he wants.

I also very much agree. I am not a terribly service-oriented sub. But there is a definite high I get off of making him proud of me. I LOVE his being pleased with me. "Good girl" is one of my very favorite utterances in the whole, wide world. And there are a lot of things I would do to obtain that high that I wouldn't otherwise do without his pride in me as a reward. Knowing that I've done something difficult for him, something that he really wanted me to do, can leave me with that high for days. But it has to be something he's ordered me to do; it doesn't work for me the way neci described it...it doesn't work for me to try to anticipate his needs in that way. But maybe I just haven't gotten to where she has with that yet...I swim in the shallow end of the BDSM pool.

There's also the fact that neither of my Ds have any interest in my doing something that they don't truly believe I'll be okay with doing. In other words, they don't ask me to do things they don't think I'll like. I may swear up and down that I don't want to do it, truly believing that to be true, but they're always right in the end. Being pushed beyond my limits and finding that I am able to do something, and do it well, that I didn't think I could is its own reward.

I think doing something you don't want to do as a punishment can be cathartic for the same reason. If it wipes the slate clean and puts you back on his good side again...who wouldn't want that? I'm willing to pay pretty high prices when I know it will earn his favor.

I don't even think of it as his satisfaction being more important than my own. I value my own physical satisfaction, and it is well taken care of by my Ds as they see fit. But the satisfaction of the D brings me much greater satisfaction than my own physical needs being met does. Does that make sense? What feels good to me, feels good. But making HIM feel good, physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever...that feels DAMN good and I could bask in that feeling forever.

 

[CurlyKat]

I also very much agree. I am not a terribly service-oriented sub. But there is a definite high I get off of making him proud of me. I LOVE his being pleased with me. "Good girl" is one of my very favorite utterances in the whole, wide world. And there are a lot of things I would do to obtain that high that I wouldn't otherwise do without his pride in me as a reward. Knowing that I've done something difficult for him, something that he really wanted me to do, can leave me with that high for days. But it has to be something he's ordered me to do; it doesn't work for me the way neci described it...it doesn't work for me to try to anticipate his needs in that way. But maybe I just haven't gotten to where she has with that yet...I swim in the shallow end of the BDSM pool.

There's also the fact that neither of my Ds have any interest in my doing something that they don't truly believe I'll be okay with doing. In other words, they don't ask me to do things they don't think I'll like. I may swear up and down that I don't want to do it, truly believing that to be true, but they're always right in the end. Being pushed beyond my limits and finding that I am able to do something, and do it well, that I didn't think I could is its own reward.

I think doing something you don't want to do as a punishment can be cathartic for the same reason. If it wipes the slate clean and puts you back on his good side again...who wouldn't want that? I'm willing to pay pretty high prices when I know it will earn his favor.

I don't even think of it as his satisfaction being more important than my own. I value my own physical satisfaction, and it is well taken care of by my Ds as they see fit. But the satisfaction of the D brings me much greater satisfaction than my own physical needs being met does. Does that make sense? What feels good to me, feels good. But making HIM feel good, physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever...that feels DAMN good and I could bask in that feeling forever.

The bolded part is especially true. Many times, that's all I need. I don't necessarily need the physical satisfaction, though my Master does do a very good job of seeing that it's looked after as well, but this I need to hear.

As far as anticipating needs, I think that's something you slowly grow into in a relationship. He tells you to do something you don't think you can do or don't want to do, you do it, and you get the high. You do that for a while until you can see the signs that he wants X, Y, or Z thing again, and even though your initial thought might be "oh crap, not again, I don't like that!" you decide to go for it just to see what kind of reaction you get for doing it before asked or told. Reactions do vary, but most of the time I've gotten the good kind of surprise and he's even more pleased than if he had to tell me. It's an even bigger high. And then there are other times that you can't quite do the difficult or disliked task, but at least you tried. That does count for a lot.

And yes, slate wiping is a VERY good reason to do something normally disliked. Totally agree with you there.

 

[MrMentor7]

The bolded part is especially true. Many times, that's all I need. I don't necessarily need the physical satisfaction, though my Master does do a very good job of seeing that it's looked after as well, but this I need to hear...

But in that situation, you are achieving something pleasurable - the recognizition, appreciation, or approval, so I can more easily relate to that and grasp that concept.

Thank you all for your comments and thoughts. This is a great board.

 

[JMohegan]

When the s defers to the D (as you put it), does that always mean the s is enjoying themself? There is obtaing pleasure from pleasing another - I get that (see my above post). There is obtaining pleasure from uncomfortable sensations - I get that, too. But is there pleasure when you are doing something you truly do not want to do? If not, why does the submissive "put up" with it? Is it because the submissive knows they are a better person because of the unwanted experience? Is it because the submissive knows no relationship is perfect? Or maybe the submissive knows a wanted experience will come from the unwanted experience as a reward?

She runs the errand, even when she's right in the middle of something else and truly does not want to, because he told her to do it and that's the deal. He's in charge.

She complies with the request for a bj, even when she truly does not want to be awakened, for the same reason. She defers to his decisions regarding their weekend, holiday, or vacation plans, even when she truly wants to do something else, because again, that's the deal. The commitment she made when entering the relationship.

Same thing regarding allocation of chores, and a host of other issues involving shared day-to-day existence. Well matched couples have compatible personalities and rhythms of moods, and don't disagree often, but all couples get out of sync occasionally and disagree strongly at some point.

Why does she "put up with it"? Because she's wired to be more comfortable, in general, when someone else is in charge. And understands how he's wired as well.

She also sticks around because he's not a fucking idiot, he knows both her and himself very well, and he knows how to achieve a sense of balance, satisfaction, and fulfillment for both of them in the relationship overall.

That's the type of dynamic that works for me.