OK... so there are no women on here...

[Diosax]

I’m way more worried about how often women get abused than I am by how often men get their feelings hurt. Call me a radical.

This everyday. We live in a patriarchy men don't need us to look after them. Just reminds me that women sustain the patriarchy as well.

 

[QuickWitThickDick]

Given what abject grotesque behavior which gets thrown toward the women on this platform, every guy should approach from a position of apology and respect.

Am I bummed when I do not get a reply from a well thought out message? Yes, but I can’t hold it against them. They probably get too many unsolicited jackasses. Or, maybe I am just not their cup of tea.

Either way, I have no right to be ticked off at a non reply or a no thank you.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

Given what abject grotesque behavior which gets thrown toward the women on this platform, every guy should approach from a position of apology and respect.

Am I bummed when I do not get a reply from a well thought out message? Yes, but I can’t hold it against them. They probably get too many unsolicited jackasses. Or, maybe I am just not their cup of tea.

Either way, I have no right to be ticked off at a non reply or a no thank you.

Very well worded and I wish more men were the same way and as understanding as you seem to be.

 

[QuickWitThickDick]

Thank you. My sisters taught me well. I am sorry that you, and every other woman on here has to put up with [insert every degrading and mansplaining event].

May you have smoother waters ahead!

 

[NorthernVAM]

But you also have to see it as respect and trust — and that goes both ways and BOTH have to be earned. Not given freely. And people say that because we truly DO NOT KNOW WHOS BAD! We know it isn’t all men but to basically imply that we as women have to be totally fine with all men unless that man shows that he isn’t trust worthy isn’t right at all. We are allowed to be wary and not trust men… not all of us have happy perfect pasts that make it easy for us to be able to do that. I know I sure as hell can’t.

And I doubt I ever will. -.- I don’t trust anyone enough to let them in like that.

Skye --

I think this is a very articulate statement of your feelings, and it's a great thing that you can express yourself so clearly. I know many people who can't express themselves, and it is a source of both emotional pain and frustration for them.

On the topic of discerning abusive people and/or abusive situations, I think you are actually "spot on" in that in my experience, identifying an abusive situation requires that you actually gather enough information about the situation to determine if it is abusive. In most cases, abusive situations are more often subtle than overt, so it takes time to gather a clear enough picture of what is really going on.

I think it's similar with relationships. How long do you have to know someone before you are "pretty confident" that you've seen them in enough situations that you can predict how they will behave? Based upon my experience, my "gut feel" on this is at least 5 years, and I think the statistics on marriage sort of back this up. I think I read somewhere that if a marriage lasts past 7 years, it will most likely last permanently.

If you want a more formalized theory, I'd recommend that you look at John Gottman's work out of the University of Washington. He's done some great research on this, and has identified four behaviors that are a "death knell" for relationships. Here is a brief introduction to it.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-fo...cism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

As for me -- one of the things that I used Gottman's work for was to ensure that I wasn't engaging in any relationship destroying behaviors. For me, it was hard not to engage in relationship destroying behaviors when you are in an emotional situation and one of your insecurities gets hit hard by your partner.

Anyway -- that's my thought on relationships, and how difficult they are to navigate overall.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

I think this is a very articulate statement of your feelings, and it's a great thing that you can express yourself so clearly. I know many people who can't express themselves, and it is a source of both emotional pain and frustration for them.

Thank you! That means a lot. I wasn’t sure if I was making sense as this whole topic has kind of sent me into a trauma brain spiral so I’m not thinking as clearly as I normally would and didn’t have the energy to go over what I had written before sending it like I usually would.
I can’t always find the right words. They just happened to work with me more than I anticipated this time.
I’m glad it makes sense.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I’m way more worried about how often women get abused than I am by how often men get their feelings hurt. Call me a radical.

THIS

 

[NorthernVAM]

Thank you! That means a lot. I wasn’t sure if I was making sense as this whole topic has kind of sent me into a trauma brain spiral so I’m not thinking as clearly as I normally would and didn’t have the energy to go over what I had written before sending it like I usually would.
I can’t always find the right words. They just happened to work with me more than I anticipated this time.
I’m glad it makes sense.

You should give yourself more credit .. being able to identify feelings and then being able to articulate them so that other people understand isn't as easy as people think it is.

I know that when someone doesn't understand what I'm saying my bias is to think that they are ignoring me, and part of that is because in my own family of origin I WAS ignored, so sometimes it's hard for me to discern the difference between someone not understanding me, and someone not caring what I have to say. It's all much more complicated that people want to believe it is.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

You should give yourself more credit .. being able to identify feelings and then being able to articulate them so that other people understand isn't as easy as people think it is.

I know that when someone doesn't understand what I'm saying my bias is to think that they are ignoring me, and part of that is because in my own family of origin I WAS ignored, so sometimes it's hard for me to discern the difference between someone not understanding me, and someone not caring what I have to say. It's all much more complicated that people want to believe it is.

Sometimes I feel like I talk in circles so you validating that I’m making sense really means a lot.

It is complicated and hard.

 

[NorthernVAM]

Sometimes I feel like I talk in circles so you validating that I’m making sense really means a lot.

It is complicated and hard.

Tell me about it. Some people find me annoying because I'll often ask them to "define" the words they are using so that I'm sure that I'm understanding them correctly. Some people find it frustrating because when I try to get clarity, it becomes apparent that they aren't clear about the ideas they are talking about themselves -- and often what then happens is that they get defensive.

I'm a big fan of the way Richard Feynman tested himself on whether he understood something or not. His belief was that if you can't explain it in simple terms, you don't understand it -- so I always try to articulate what I know in the simplest way I can -- not because I"m talking down to the audience, I'm re-enforcing the fact that I understand what I'm talking about.

https://kottke.org/17/06/if-you-cant-explain-something-in-simple-terms-you-dont-understand-it

For example, in this thread -- when we were talking about stereotyping either men or women and just attributing certain behaviors to either men or women, I know that from an individual perspective that isn't true, and that many of the behaviors are just defense mechanisms, such as trying to say that all the women here are "hostile" towards men, or all men have their hands down their pants and just want to find someone to get off with (although I'm sure there men who are here to do that).

I also believe that alot of the stereotyping that goes is based upon misunderstanding and the inability to people to communicate clearly, so I think it's very important to make the effort to understand what the other person is saying, and to check that you've heard things correctly. The caveat is that it takes time and effort to do so -- and if you aren't inclined to put in either, then you'll never get to really "connect" or "communicate" with the other person,

 

[NorthernVAM]

I think your posts in this thread have been insightful and I mostly agree. I disagree on your last part though about stereotyping being based on misunderstanding and unclear communication. The research on trolling strongly suggests the presence of significant personality disorders. Being afforded the anonymity of the internet allows those afflicted with personality disorders to indulge the disorder rather than confront their negative impulses. Even when told they’ve offended someone, most trolls can’t empathize and not having any real life connection creates further emotional distance. They need serious mental health assistance. No amount of communication will create understanding and no woman on this site owes such abusers the opportunity to “explain” further. You can’t reason with psychopaths and narcissists and trying only feeds their illness.

I'm intrigued by your disagreement, and I can almost agree with your argument. The thing that I have a hard time with is how many people in the "participating" Literotica user population can be clinically diagnosed with a personality disorder. While I haven't done the research, my inclination is to believe that the partial anonymity of Internet provides an "unhealthy" environment for adhering to social norms.

Again, I really haven't done any research, but my feeling is that what you are seeing with trolling behavior on the Internet is similar to what happened in Phil Zimbardo's infamous Stanford Prison Experiment. If you've followed his work after the experiment, he postulates that "good people" when placed in "bad situations" will behave badly. In the case of the Stanford Prison Experiment, ordinary students who were role playing guards -- actually started to abuse the students role playing prisoners.

While not exactly the same -- I tend to believe that it is much easier to be uncivil to anonymous person behind a screen since the other social cues that would induce civil behavior are not present. In general, I think we alter our behaviors when we know our behaviors are personally identifiable to us in our "real" lives, and that we lose some of those behavioral controls when we enter cyberspace.

Another competing belief that I have that is more applicable to the other social media sites is based upon the "leaked" Facebook research which shows that the more "outrageous" you are on social media, the more attention you will draw, and so if you are selling access to eyeballs, you are going to want to be outrageous to draw attention to your site or page so that your sponsors get more clicks. I think this is a related problem of how we as humans interact with communications technology and how we process information in order to survive.

So .. in general, do you believe that the Literotica population has a population that is skewed toward tolling personalities?

 

[NorthernVAM]

Didn’t the Stanford Prison Experiment turn out to be fraud?

I don’t know if the Lit population has a higher prevalence of trolls. My comment was more related to “this is what is going on when you see them.” I have no idea whether they are more prevalent here than elsewhere.

As for your point that we are something different here than in real life, I agree. I’ve commented that we are all heroes in our own stories. In real life, others contextualize your behavior that can humble you and reframe your self perception and the perception of those around you. Here, I’m the mother fucking king of my own narrative. No one can stop me.

I don't think it was a fraud as much as that the experiment itself was borderline "unethical", in that it had the potential to do real emotional and psychological damage to the participants. At the time there wasn't the research review standards that they have today, and is one of the reason that research involving human experiments requires informed consent as well as needing to be reviewed and approved of.

I think you and I are in agreement on the last point -- which is that social media sites are a poor representation of "real human interactions", and so the checks on behavior just aren't there. Honestly, what are consequences for being an asshole here?

 

[SkyeGirl32]

From the start, this has been one of the most ridiculous threads.
Where is Vagineer?

No where to be seen since apparently we’re all an infestation and he’s not in the wrong - we are since we didn’t understand what he was looking for on the first place. Because clearly he can do no wrong.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

I feel like all this feel convos - while enlightening - are lost on those who really do need to understand it. Plus I’m sure they won’t really care.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

I also feel like yes - we all do judge people based on what we see when they chose to put themselves out there or say something. It may not always be right but also, those are part of being human. Are they always right, no. But also, especially women - need to be cautious and sometimes that means putting themselves first and not being willing to let someone in if they feel like they weren’t safe. That may be seen as them being a bitch. But y’all do need to also remember, sometimes it’s okay to not put the needs of those men and women who feel the need to degrade and tear down others to make themselves feel better. We are allowed to judge them based on what they choose to do or say. Because that’s what we know, and if we think they’re jerks who don’t deserve respect - that is on them… not on the others who are only going based on limited info they’ve been given by the person in question.

 

[dkak001]

From the opening post:
“I'd now be open to having these discussions with anyone, the only stipulation being an ability to write in clear, unambiguous English free from the usual clutter of spelling and grammar errors. Yes, I know that that IS a huge ask on here but what the hell.”

Dude thinks he’s better than everyone, and that the reason no one wants to interact with him is because we’re all too stupid to see how perfect he is.

Well, in his defense, my wife CANNOT stand to continue reading a story on lit if it has more than a few grammatical errors. She's certainly not someone who thinks she's better than anyone else, but the errors are a complete turn off to her. Perhaps the same is true of the OP.

Just 2 cents worth of free opinion...

 

[SkyeGirl32]

Well, in his defense, my wife CANNOT stand to continue reading a story on lit if it has more than a few grammatical errors. She's certainly not someone who thinks she's better than anyone else, but the errors are a complete turn off to her. Perhaps the same is true of the OP.

Just 2 cents worth of free opinion...

That's true.. But to claim that it's for story related reasons - why post this in personals and not storywriting help? Things just scream of fishiness, and then he goes on to call us all an infestation after he had originally said there are no women on this site. I stand by it not being that - even though that would be a valid reason. If it was one I'd even consider for him.

 

[dkak001]

That's true.. But to claim that it's for story related reasons - why post this in personals and not storywriting help?

It is Literotica... Personal seems like the logical place to find someone to collaborate with... Maybe there should be a 'story writing' personals section, separate from 'fuck buddy' personals. Double checking, a lot of his posts seem to be in the story help sections.

There's a saying, Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
So, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, when in doubt.

Oh, and I think he may be British...

 

[SkyeGirl32]

It is Literotica... Personal seems like the logical place to find someone to collaborate with... Maybe there should be a 'story writing' personals section, separate from 'fuck buddy' personals. Double checking, a lot of his posts seem to be in the story help sections.

There's a saying, Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
So, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, when in doubt.

Oh, and I think he may be British...

That is a good point for sure... a story writing personals section would be a good idea, for the site in general. LOL.

As someone who used to give people the benefit of the doubt -- I rarely do that anymore, as usually my gut feelings about people are right.

 

[YourgirlfriendLaura]

The thing is, the OP has NEVER asked nicely for story collaborators. He has only moaned about lack of attention and how hard men like him have it on here, since he joined. If I had a dime for every guy that has published nothing but wants to "discuss plot scenarios" I would be a millionaire. Men even lie and say they have a story written and just want some help....and when I have agreed, it turns out they have nothing written. It is a scam.
It is an old Lit trope....
And every poster has a history. The OP has no history of pleasant posts that would make any female want to know him. Sure, could be incompetence. Either way, I have no doubts, the OP blames woman for not liking him in the real world and Lit world and never thinks it is because he is not fun/ nice/ interesting/ empathetic. He is a moan bag full of entitlement. We have AH for people actually looking to write a real story here. I think benefit of the doubt belongs to those without huge chips on his shoulders.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

The thing is, the OP has NEVER asked nicely for story collaborators. He has only moaned about lack of attention and how hard men like him have it on here, since he joined. If I had a dime for every guy that has published nothing but wants to "discuss plot scenarios" I would be a millionaire. Men even lie and say they have a story written and just want some help....and when I have agreed, it turns out they have nothing written. It is a scam.
It is an old Lit trope....
And every poster has a history. The OP has no history of pleasant posts that would make any female want to know him. Sure, could be incompetence. Either way, I have no doubts, the OP blames woman for not liking him in the real world and Lit world and never thinks it is because he is not fun/ nice/ interesting/ empathetic. He is a moan bag full of entitlement. We have AH for people actually looking to write a real story here. I think benefit of the doubt belongs to those without huge chips on his shoulders.

All of these are very true and valid points and I agree with these 100%!!

 

[QuickWitThickDick]

The thing is, the OP has NEVER asked nicely for story collaborators. He has only moaned about lack of attention and how hard men like him have it on here, since he joined. If I had a dime for every guy that has published nothing but wants to "discuss plot scenarios" I would be a millionaire. Men even lie and say they have a story written and just want some help....and when I have agreed, it turns out they have nothing written. It is a scam.
It is an old Lit trope....
And every poster has a history. The OP has no history of pleasant posts that would make any female want to know him. Sure, could be incompetence. Either way, I have no doubts, the OP blames woman for not liking him in the real world and Lit world and never thinks it is because he is not fun/ nice/ interesting/ empathetic. He is a moan bag full of entitlement. We have AH for people actually looking to write a real story here. I think benefit of the doubt belongs to those without huge chips on his shoulders.

^^This.

We all have struggles here and there but that doesn’t mean we should turn our hurt against swaths of women on Lit bc they don’t reply to a post.

We (guys) aren’t owed anything here just bc we put an ounce of effort into something.

 

[MMM_wms]

^^This.

We all have struggles here and there but that doesn’t mean we should turn our hurt against swaths of women on Lit bc they don’t reply to a post.

We (guys) aren’t owed anything here just bc we put an ounce of effort into something.

my conclusion on this whole thread

First of all, what I think may not matter to any of you, but let me state it anyway. To me it appears like the Lit Personals has turned into what I believe Facebook to be. A bunch of people getting together who have nothing other in mind than telling themselves:

What the mainstream here thinks is right and any + all criticism of the mainstream is wrong necessarily.

No matter what a non-mainstreamer posts here. ….. Over 200 posts full of excuses, in order to avoid taking up and addressing an argument put forth by somebody not agreeing with mainstream thinking. And the new features here – giving half-wits who cannot write an opportunity “to like” a post, and a score for measuring the conformity of anybody to mainstream beliefs – is very Facebook-like.

Too bad that genuine discussions have disappeared here, and that everybody is expected to parrot feminism.

 

[KatieDoes]

The closest magsteellonelylmtwins has ever come to actually pleasing a woman is how much we enjoy his utter ineptitude at remembering to respond as the correct alt.

 

[SkyeGirl32]

He so desperately needs to be right that either he forgot which account to sign into OR he did that on purpose to look like he has more support when we know it's him.

I'm partially leaning towards the latter.